Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we hang
bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

"terry" wrote in message
...
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.


I think your math is wrong.
I'll split the difference on the heating element
wattage and call it 3750 watts.
If you ran it 1 hr that would be 3.75kwh.
But, you only run it 45 minutes. so 45/60 x 3.75 = 2.8125kwh
And, it's only on 80% of the 45 minutes.
So, .8 x 2.8125khw = 2.25kwh
Then 10 cents x 2.25 kwh = 22.5 cents
Mike

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:31:43 -0800, terry wrote:
Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

I think Mike's right - that should be 45/60 x 0.8 x 0.12 x kW:

3kW works out as 0.75 x 0.8 x 0.12 x 3 = $0.22
4kW works out as 0.75 x 0.8 x 0.12 x 4 = $0.29

.... ours is on off-peak so gets 6c/kWh, but I can't remember the wattage
on the heater for ours either (and it normally runs for about an hour for
a full load)

I don't even know where to begin figuring out how much of that heat is
being lost into the house (rather than vent outside) and therefore how
much useful work it does for the six months of the year we need to be
heating the home anyway.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we hang
bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Yes, same here, when we can be bothered. Sometimes we're lazy and just run
the dryer anyway :-) Maybe for the summer I should be painting the thing
black and running it outdoors

cheers

Jules

On Jan 27, 4:14*pm, Jules
wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:31:43 -0800, terry wrote:
Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

I think Mike's right - that should be 45/60 x 0.8 x 0.12 x kW:

*3kW works out as 0.75 x 0.8 x 0.12 x 3 = $0.22
*4kW works out as 0.75 x 0.8 x 0.12 x 4 = $0.29

... ours is on off-peak so gets 6c/kWh, but I can't remember the wattage
on the heater for ours either (and it normally runs for about an hour for
a full load)

I don't even know where to begin figuring out how much of that heat is
being lost into the house (rather than vent outside) and therefore how
much useful work it does for the six months of the year we need to be
heating the home anyway.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we hang
bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Yes, same here, when we can be bothered. Sometimes we're lazy and just run
the dryer anyway :-) Maybe for the summer I should be painting the thing
black and running it outdoors

cheers

Jules

Yes Mike and Jules, you are correct, my wrong math. It's more like two
to four times my original number. Thanks.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:59:52 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:
You can drastically shorten your drying times/costs with a front loader wash
machine.

Agreed

Why they cost so g-d much up front is another story.....

Also agreed. ****es me right off. A typical machine at a typical 'big
store' in England in around 200 pounds - which is somewhere in the
$US 300-350 range. Yet typical prices at similar stores in the US seem to
be around $600 (or more). There's no way I'm going to pay nearly double
the price* that they charge in other countries. (Canadians - what
are the prices like for them there?)

* actually, looking at the high end of the market it seems like they
typically charge an extra $200-$300 for the privilege of owning a
front-loader in the US, regardless of how good or bad the product is.

cheers

Jules

amdx wrote:
"terry" wrote in message
...
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.


I think your math is wrong.
I'll split the difference on the heating element
wattage and call it 3750 watts.
If you ran it 1 hr that would be 3.75kwh.
But, you only run it 45 minutes. so 45/60 x 3.75 = 2.8125kwh
And, it's only on 80% of the 45 minutes.
So, .8 x 2.8125khw = 2.25kwh
Then 10 cents x 2.25 kwh = 22.5 cents
Mike

Sounds right to me. I had done a search not long ago and found the
average cost to dry a load of wash was between $0.25 to $0.50 depending
on your electricity cost. Ten cents is on the low side and it goes up a
little over $0.20 in some areas.

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:59:52 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:
You can drastically shorten your drying times/costs with a front loader
wash
machine.

Agreed

Why they cost so g-d much up front is another story.....

Also agreed. ****es me right off. A typical machine at a typical 'big
store' in England in around 200 pounds - which is somewhere in the
$US 300-350 range. Yet typical prices at similar stores in the US seem to
be around $600 (or more). There's no way I'm going to pay nearly double
the price* that they charge in other countries. (Canadians - what
are the prices like for them there?)

* actually, looking at the high end of the market it seems like they
typically charge an extra $200-$300 for the privilege of owning a
front-loader in the US, regardless of how good or bad the product is.

I have never seen a frontloader in the US for $600.
The Consumer Reports top rated best buy, is the Frigidaire, at about $750
US -- a fantastic bargain when compared to the Kenmore (Sears), has their
frontloaders at $1,000 and up, up past $1600, which was previously the
stratosphere occupied by the likes of Miele, and some other hoity toity
brands. I suspect a good part of that is the paint job.

LG and Kenmore seem to be clones. The high-end stuff offers steam, and
mebbe a few other bells and whistles.
Oh yeah, these prices are for the washer alone. The fukn dryers are not far
behind in price. goodgawd.....

I got my previous Kenmore toploader/dryer together for about $800, near top
of the line then -- admittedly a few years ago, but it seems toploaders are
still in that ballpark.

The US never talks about inflation, or when they do, it seems negligible.
They must be basing inflation on some gummint subsidized commodity, giving
some bull**** reading.
In actuality, prices are thru the g-d roof, yo, thru the roof:

Fish at g-d Costco is $30 a packet; cars are $30 K; rent/housing/utilities
thru the roof.
Some people are paying close to $1/ kWhr, where the state has seen fit to
ass**** the public into near-homelessness.
Gas here is still $3/gal, for no good reason whatsoever. And our gas
subsidizes nothing except Mobil's profits.

Parking tickets in NYC are $165 a pop, businesses are routinely raided by
multiple agencies, with net fines of $10K minimum, often $50K

And $3,000 for Kenmore washer/dryer sets. goodgawd....
--
EA






cheers

Jules

"Tony" wrote in message
...
amdx wrote:
"terry" wrote in message
...
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.


I think your math is wrong.
I'll split the difference on the heating element
wattage and call it 3750 watts.
If you ran it 1 hr that would be 3.75kwh.
But, you only run it 45 minutes. so 45/60 x 3.75 = 2.8125kwh
And, it's only on 80% of the 45 minutes.
So, .8 x 2.8125khw = 2.25kwh
Then 10 cents x 2.25 kwh = 22.5 cents
Mike

Sounds right to me. I had done a search not long ago and found the
average cost to dry a load of wash was between $0.25 to $0.50 depending on
your electricity cost. Ten cents is on the low side and it goes up a
little over $0.20 in some areas.

Try $1.00, past the initial bull**** low-balled "tier" levels. mebbe 10c
for the first 10 kw.... heh.
--
EA

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:01:22 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:59:52 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:
You can drastically shorten your drying times/costs with a front loader
wash
machine.

Agreed

Why they cost so g-d much up front is another story.....

Also agreed. ****es me right off. A typical machine at a typical 'big
store' in England in around 200 pounds - which is somewhere in the
$US 300-350 range. Yet typical prices at similar stores in the US seem to
be around $600 (or more). There's no way I'm going to pay nearly double
the price* that they charge in other countries. (Canadians - what
are the prices like for them there?)

* actually, looking at the high end of the market it seems like they
typically charge an extra $200-$300 for the privilege of owning a
front-loader in the US, regardless of how good or bad the product is.

I have never seen a frontloader in the US for $600.
The Consumer Reports top rated best buy, is the Frigidaire, at about $750
US -- a fantastic bargain when compared to the Kenmore (Sears), has their
frontloaders at $1,000 and up, up past $1600, which was previously the
stratosphere occupied by the likes of Miele, and some other hoity toity
brands. I suspect a good part of that is the paint job.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02632212000P?vName=Appliances&cName= Washers+%26+Dryers&sName=View+All

$492, and a whole bunch more in the category from $500-$600 with
varying features. We have the 2002 Kenmore version of this, and it
was around $500 then too. The "regular price" is ~$800, but Sears'
trick with products like this is that they have a number of
almost-identical models with only a feature or two different, and
rotate which is on sale, so there's always one at the sale price.

These are decent machines, with a capacity similar to a normal
top-loader (they look smaller, but you can stuff them full, including
comforters and other big items because there's no agitator taking up
space).

You can certainly spend much more on a huge front-loader with digital
everything (which will have quite a bit more capacity than any top
loader), but that's not really the right comparison.

It's like dishonest "studies" showing that driving a car costs $X more
than taking the bus, when they average the cost of all cars, rather
than comparing *basic* car transportation. Yes, a Lexus is nice, but
a Honda Fit or used '95 Saturn is much closer in cost and *still*
offers more comfort and features than the bus. YMMV of course...

Josh

"Josh" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:01:22 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:59:52 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:
You can drastically shorten your drying times/costs with a front loader
wash
machine.

Agreed

Why they cost so g-d much up front is another story.....

Also agreed. ****es me right off. A typical machine at a typical 'big
store' in England in around 200 pounds - which is somewhere in the
$US 300-350 range. Yet typical prices at similar stores in the US seem
to
be around $600 (or more). There's no way I'm going to pay nearly double
the price* that they charge in other countries. (Canadians - what
are the prices like for them there?)

* actually, looking at the high end of the market it seems like they
typically charge an extra $200-$300 for the privilege of owning a
front-loader in the US, regardless of how good or bad the product is.

I have never seen a frontloader in the US for $600.
The Consumer Reports top rated best buy, is the Frigidaire, at about $750
US -- a fantastic bargain when compared to the Kenmore (Sears), has their
frontloaders at $1,000 and up, up past $1600, which was previously the
stratosphere occupied by the likes of Miele, and some other hoity toity
brands. I suspect a good part of that is the paint job.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02632212000P?vName=Appliances&cName= Washers+%26+Dryers&sName=View+All

$492, and a whole bunch more in the category from $500-$600 with
varying features. We have the 2002 Kenmore version of this, and it
was around $500 then too. The "regular price" is ~$800, but Sears'
trick with products like this is that they have a number of
almost-identical models with only a feature or two different, and
rotate which is on sale, so there's always one at the sale price.

These are decent machines, with a capacity similar to a normal
top-loader (they look smaller, but you can stuff them full, including
comforters and other big items because there's no agitator taking up
space).

That's a great price! I stand corrected.
I guess since the Wife arm-barred me into that g-d Miele, I wasn't really
paying attention to the bargains. Boy, was I ****ed when I saw the
check-rated Frigidaire, at less than 1/2 the price of the Miele.
I wonder if this is the same machine CR check-rated.... I'll check later.
The higher-priced jobbies are at 4.5 cu ft, but this looks like really good
bang for the buck.

The Miele is well-made, tho, and appears to use almost no water. It weighs
about 400#. Which means I paid about $4 per lb.

Front loaders ought not be more expensive than top loaders, because
mechanically they are intrinsically much much simpler -- basically a
multiple-speed motor and a belt -- or not even a belt, if direct drive.

I've taken apart the transmission of a Kenmore top loader, and holy ****, it
would have made NASA proud.... wow....


You can certainly spend much more on a huge front-loader with digital
everything (which will have quite a bit more capacity than any top
loader), but that's not really the right comparison.

It's like dishonest "studies" showing that driving a car costs $X more
than taking the bus, when they average the cost of all cars, rather
than comparing *basic* car transportation. Yes, a Lexus is nice, but
a Honda Fit or used '95 Saturn is much closer in cost and *still*
offers more comfort and features than the bus. YMMV of course...

Heh, I have a Honda Fit.... great small car, incredibly roomy, a lot of
cargo room with the back seats down (or "up"), about 50 mpg highway. With a
battery the size of a Harley battery, that they want $200+ for, but sears
has something close for about $60.
And I think tires will be about $15 each, when it's time to replace them....

CR likes the Fit much better than any of the other half-cars. Sheeit,
sometimes I actually have trouble finding it in a lot.
Of course, not nearly as bad as the Dumb Car, tho. goodgawd....
--
EA

Josh

terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we hang
bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes 0.285kWh.
Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer, and they
probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the air.
I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after switching
off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no heat. After
the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and check the wattage
again. I'd take the average and multiply it by the time a load ran.

The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. Without knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the cost.

"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we hang
bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes 0.285kWh.
Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer, and they
probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the air. I
could get the wattage by timing my power meter after switching off all my
other circuits and starting a load in with no heat. After the load dried,
I'd run it without heat again and check the wattage again. I'd take the
average and multiply it by the time a load ran.

The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. Without knowing the volume
of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at Costco. I
have one, but haven't used it yet.
--
EA

Existential Angst wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message
...
amdx wrote:
"terry" wrote in message
...
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

I think your math is wrong.
I'll split the difference on the heating element
wattage and call it 3750 watts.
If you ran it 1 hr that would be 3.75kwh.
But, you only run it 45 minutes. so 45/60 x 3.75 = 2.8125kwh
And, it's only on 80% of the 45 minutes.
So, .8 x 2.8125khw = 2.25kwh
Then 10 cents x 2.25 kwh = 22.5 cents
Mike
Sounds right to me. I had done a search not long ago and found the
average cost to dry a load of wash was between $0.25 to $0.50 depending on
your electricity cost. Ten cents is on the low side and it goes up a
little over $0.20 in some areas.

Try $1.00, past the initial bull**** low-balled "tier" levels. mebbe 10c
for the first 10 kw.... heh.

Maybe for you, but I take my total electric bill for last month (extra
low despite the colder than normal weather because I was away for over 1
week and I don't heat the whole house even when I am here), $125.74
divided by the total KWH's used, 1540 and get my real price at
$0.082/KWH That is the total including any taxes, surcharges no matter
how many KWH I use, there is no tiered pricing. So using the formula
above, drying one load of wash would only cost me about $0.182 , yes,
less than 19 cents/load.

Maybe YOU fall for the "initial bull**** low-balled "tier" levels", but
that doesn't mean everyone does.

Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and check
the wattage again. I'd take the average and multiply it by the time
a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. Without knowing
the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at Costco.
I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and check
the wattage again. I'd take the average and multiply it by the time
a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. Without
knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at Costco.
I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

Heh.... good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V legs....
I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.
--
EA

Existential Angst wrote:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some
45 minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt
hr. So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and
check the wattage again. I'd take the average and multiply it by
the time a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air.
Without knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at
Costco. I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

Heh.... good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V
legs.... I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.

Mine is 15A max also, so that could limit you too.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some
45 minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt
hr. So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and
check the wattage again. I'd take the average and multiply it by
the time a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air.
Without knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at
Costco. I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

Heh.... good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V
legs.... I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.

Mine is 15A max also, so that could limit you too.

FOUR killawatt thingies, then?? googawd, nuthin is simple....
--
EA

Existential Angst wrote:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some
45 minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt
hr. So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.
Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and
check the wattage again. I'd take the average and multiply it by
the time a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air.
Without knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.
I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at
Costco. I have one, but haven't used it yet.
You have a 110 V dryer?
Heh.... good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V
legs.... I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.
Mine is 15A max also, so that could limit you too.

FOUR killawatt thingies, then?? googawd, nuthin is simple....

I just checked mine. My meter is stamped 7.2Kh. Before I turned on the
dryer, a meter revolution took 62 seconds, for 418 watts. With the
empty dryer turning without heat, it was 42 seconds, for 617 watts. So
the motor uses about 200 watts empty. Where I live, that's less than 2
cents an hour.

Next time I dry a load, I can see what the motor uses with a wet load.
With the heat on, I can use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the galvanized vent pipe, which would probably be near that of the
air flowing inside. Then if I can estimate the volume, I can estimate
how much that adds to the cost.

Suppose it's 5000 liters of air per hour (1.4 liters per second) at
122F. If room temperature is 68F, That would be 192 watts to warm the
air. That's about what the motor uses. I wonder how much of the power
that goes into the motor ends up heating the air.

If I put in a wet load at 20 pounds and take it out at 10 pounds half an
hour later, that's 2.85kWh to evaporate the water and perhaps 0.25kWh
for the motor and warm exhaust. In this case, 92% of the cost would
come from the weight of water, which could be determined by weighing the
laundry.

Jules writes:
... ours is on off-peak so gets 6c/kWh, but I can't remember the wattage
on the heater for ours either (and it normally runs for about an hour for
a full load)

It's amazing (to me) that our cost is almost 3x as high.
The total cost per kwh (including tax, generation, transmission, fees)
is a whopping 17.7 cent/kwh without any possibility of off-peak.

It's hard to believe that the "free market" price (in the absense of
governmental regulation) would be 3x as large particularly given that
electricity is:
- An almost pure commodity (a volt is a volt is a volt)
- Transportable (and relatively efficiently too with new power line
technology)
- Easily buyable/sellable
- Mature technology

"Existential Angst" writes:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and check
the wattage again. I'd take the average and multiply it by the time
a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. Without
knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at Costco.
I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

Heh.... good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V legs....
I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.

Yeah but isn't the 220 draw from hot to hot with the only current
returning through the neutral being the 110v leg that typically runs the
light and the motor. So, I'm not sure that hooking up two of them would
work (plus I'm pretty sure they are not rated at the 35A or so amperage
of a dryer).

I think the easiest thing would be to put a clamp-on ammeter on it --
which shouldn't be too hard since one typically has easy access to the
dryer end of the cord where the wires terminate. Don't forget to measure
current in both legs of course.

Actually, with a clamp-on meter, would you get an accurate rating of
220v current if you clamped around both hot legs but with the direction
of the wire in one of the legs reversed 180 degrees -- my thinking is
that reversing the wire direction would make both currents appear in
phase and hence be additive...

blueman wrote:
....

It's hard to believe that the "free market" price (in the absense of
governmental regulation) would be 3x as large particularly given that
electricity is:
- An almost pure commodity (a volt is a volt is a volt)
- Transportable (and relatively efficiently too with new power line
technology)
- Easily buyable/sellable
- Mature technology

Where do you think there's an absence of regulation that affects utility
pricing regardless of where you are (which w/o knowing either makes
specific reasons for rate differences impossible but)...

- there's still voltage drop and line losses
- there's very little installed new power line w/ advanced technology
that makes much difference as yet (it's coming, and there is some
installed, but it's quite insignificant amount in overall scheme as yet)
- but not storable so it is used as generated (and therefore required to
have the capacity to generate however much is needed to be used at any
specific instant)
- a great deal of which is "excessively mature" in terms of thermal
efficiency owing in large part to regulation that makes replacement such
a difficult process (read expensive) that it isn't done as frequently as
otherwise would be. Something otoo 65% of generation facilities are 40+
yrs old

--

Jules wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:31:43 -0800, terry wrote:
Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

I think Mike's right - that should be 45/60 x 0.8 x 0.12 x kW:

3kW works out as 0.75 x 0.8 x 0.12 x 3 = $0.22
4kW works out as 0.75 x 0.8 x 0.12 x 4 = $0.29

... ours is on off-peak so gets 6c/kWh, but I can't remember the wattage
on the heater for ours either (and it normally runs for about an hour for
a full load)

I don't even know where to begin figuring out how much of that heat is
being lost into the house (rather than vent outside) and therefore how
much useful work it does for the six months of the year we need to be
heating the home anyway.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we hang
bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Yes, same here, when we can be bothered. Sometimes we're lazy and just run
the dryer anyway :-) Maybe for the summer I should be painting the thing
black and running it outdoors

cheers

Jules

About a quarter is what I calculated a few years ago. My time to hang
and remove clothes from a clothes line is worth more than a quarter,
I'll stick with the dryer. The re-wash after the occasional bird crap
incident or being blown off the line in a wind gust also negates any
cost savings.

On Jan 27, 2:59*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"Jules" wrote in message

news




On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:31:43 -0800, terry wrote:
Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

I think Mike's right - that should be 45/60 x 0.8 x 0.12 x kW:

3kW works out as 0.75 x 0.8 x 0.12 x 3 = $0.22
4kW works out as 0.75 x 0.8 x 0.12 x 4 = $0.29

... ours is on off-peak so gets 6c/kWh, but I can't remember the wattage
on the heater for ours either (and it normally runs for about an hour for
a full load)

Also, don't forget the draw of drum motor.

As per a previous thread, proly better to divide the electric bill by the
total kwhrs, and you will find your kwhr cost is double or triple what the
stated rate is. *


There you go again. As Tony pointed out to you, just because that's
how your electric company pricing is structured, it doesn't meant that
it's that way everywhere. Here in the next state over, NJ, my
residential rate is fixed at a flat rate per KWH.





Here in NY it winds up being triple the stated kWhr rate.

So the amount per load in NY could easily be 75c.

You can drastically shorten your drying times/costs with a front loader wash
machine.
Front loaders are a win-win x 10 situation, drastically reducing the
costs/consumption of everything involved in washing: *detergent, water,
electricity, drying time, wear/tear on clothes (less lint in the dryer), and
proly a longer lasting machine due to much simpler mechanisms, drive train.

Cost to run dryer



I live on the Central Oregon Coast & my electric company says its
about27.6 cents per HR
our rates are 6.14 cents per kilowatt hr.

Existential Angst wrote:

"Josh" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:01:22 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jules" wrote in message
news On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:59:52 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:
You can drastically shorten your drying times/costs with a front loader
wash
machine.

Agreed

Why they cost so g-d much up front is another story.....

Also agreed. ****es me right off. A typical machine at a typical 'big
store' in England in around 200 pounds - which is somewhere in the
$US 300-350 range. Yet typical prices at similar stores in the US seem
to
be around $600 (or more). There's no way I'm going to pay nearly double
the price* that they charge in other countries. (Canadians - what
are the prices like for them there?)

* actually, looking at the high end of the market it seems like they
typically charge an extra $200-$300 for the privilege of owning a
front-loader in the US, regardless of how good or bad the product is.

I have never seen a frontloader in the US for $600.
The Consumer Reports top rated best buy, is the Frigidaire, at about $750
US -- a fantastic bargain when compared to the Kenmore (Sears), has their
frontloaders at $1,000 and up, up past $1600, which was previously the
stratosphere occupied by the likes of Miele, and some other hoity toity
brands. I suspect a good part of that is the paint job.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02632212000P?vName=Appliances&cName= Washers+%26+Dryers&sName=View+All

$492, and a whole bunch more in the category from $500-$600 with
varying features. We have the 2002 Kenmore version of this, and it
was around $500 then too. The "regular price" is ~$800, but Sears'
trick with products like this is that they have a number of
almost-identical models with only a feature or two different, and
rotate which is on sale, so there's always one at the sale price.

These are decent machines, with a capacity similar to a normal
top-loader (they look smaller, but you can stuff them full, including
comforters and other big items because there's no agitator taking up
space).

That's a great price! I stand corrected.
I guess since the Wife arm-barred me into that g-d Miele, I wasn't really
paying attention to the bargains. Boy, was I ****ed when I saw the
check-rated Frigidaire, at less than 1/2 the price of the Miele.
I wonder if this is the same machine CR check-rated.... I'll check later.
The higher-priced jobbies are at 4.5 cu ft, but this looks like really good
bang for the buck.

The Miele is well-made, tho, and appears to use almost no water. It weighs
about 400#. Which means I paid about $4 per lb.

It is interesting to compare items in $/lb. My new truck at about
$6.75/lb including TTR, is cheaper than a good steak...

"blueman" wrote in message
...
"Existential Angst" writes:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and check
the wattage again. I'd take the average and multiply it by the time
a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. Without
knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at Costco.
I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

Heh.... good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V legs....

I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.

Yeah but isn't the 220 draw from hot to hot with the only current
returning through the neutral being the 110v leg that typically runs the
light and the motor. So, I'm not sure that hooking up two of them would
work (plus I'm pretty sure they are not rated at the 35A or so amperage
of a dryer).

I think the easiest thing would be to put a clamp-on ammeter on it --
which shouldn't be too hard since one typically has easy access to the
dryer end of the cord where the wires terminate. Don't forget to measure
current in both legs of course.

Actually, with a clamp-on meter, would you get an accurate rating of
220v current if you clamped around both hot legs but with the direction
of the wire in one of the legs reversed 180 degrees -- my thinking is
that reversing the wire direction would make both currents appear in
phase and hence be additive...

No, you still can't clamp around both wires. This is 220/240 *single
phase* -- true, you are using two legs of opposite phase, but the net
voltage is still single phase. Iow, there is single phase and three phase,
but no two phase -- heh, funny how that works.

But the clamp-on is a good idea, because it is esp. accurate on a purely
resistive load -- no power factor to worry about.
You would, however, have to subtract out the the motor current of one leg,
tho.
If one hot were reading 20 A, and the other leg were reading 16 A, the total
wattage would be:
16 x 240 + 4 x 120 x .8 , where .8 would be a typical (inductive) power
factor for motors.
Presumably the neutral coming from the dryer would also read that same 4 A,
but who knows what's going with grounds, etc.
--
EA

On Jan 28, 10:15*am, blueman wrote:
Jules writes:
... ours is on off-peak so gets 6c/kWh, but I can't remember the wattage
on the heater for ours either (and it normally runs for about an hour for
a full load)

It's amazing (to me) that our cost is almost 3x as high.
The total cost per kwh (including tax, generation, transmission, fees)
is a whopping 17.7 cent/kwh without any possibility of off-peak.

It's hard to believe that the "free market" price (in the absense of
governmental regulation) would be 3x as large particularly given that
electricity is:
*- An almost pure commodity (a volt is a volt is a volt)

But what it takes for fuel to generate the power is a huge factor and
varies widely. The areas with the lowest electric prices are
usually the ones driven off hydro-electric. Unfortunately, because of
geography, most areas of the country don't have that available.

And also factor in labor rates, materials costs, land costs, etc.
What it costs to build a sub-station or run a new transmission line
near Niagra falls is going to be a whole lot different than one in
northern NJ or San Francisco.





*- Transportable (and relatively efficiently too with new power line
* * * * * * * * * technology)
*- Easily buyable/sellable
*- Mature technology

Existential Angst wrote:

"Tony" wrote in message
...
amdx wrote:
"terry" wrote in message
...
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had this
one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x 0.8
x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.


I think your math is wrong.
I'll split the difference on the heating element
wattage and call it 3750 watts.
If you ran it 1 hr that would be 3.75kwh.
But, you only run it 45 minutes. so 45/60 x 3.75 = 2.8125kwh
And, it's only on 80% of the 45 minutes.
So, .8 x 2.8125khw = 2.25kwh
Then 10 cents x 2.25 kwh = 22.5 cents
Mike

Sounds right to me. I had done a search not long ago and found the
average cost to dry a load of wash was between $0.25 to $0.50 depending on
your electricity cost. Ten cents is on the low side and it goes up a
little over $0.20 in some areas.

Try $1.00, past the initial bull**** low-balled "tier" levels. mebbe 10c
for the first 10 kw.... heh.
--
EA

The tiers here are just the opposite, cost per KWh goes down as usage
goes up. Go figure...

On Jan 27, 8:36*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"Bob F" wrote in message

...





Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With *heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. *Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. *After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and check
the wattage again. *I'd take the average and multiply it by the time
a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. *Without
knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. *I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... *about $25 at Costco..
I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

Heh.... *good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V legs.... *
I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.
--
EA



I'd recommend trying them both out soon and make sure you save the
receipt until you do. I bought one at Costco last summer. Right out
of the box, one of the keys didn't work, so it was impossible to
use. Took it back and they gave me another one. On that one a
different key didn't work. So, I decided to wait a few months in
the hope that maybe they just had a bad batch. Bought one a couple
months ago and that one is working fine.

On Jan 28, 12:26*pm, blueman wrote:
"Existential Angst" writes:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With *heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr..

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. *Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. *After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and check
the wattage again. *I'd take the average and multiply it by the time
a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. *Without
knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. *I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... *about $25 at Costco.
I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

Heh.... *good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V legs.... *
I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.

Yeah but isn't the 220 draw from hot to hot with the only current
returning through the neutral being the 110v leg that typically runs the
light and the motor. So, I'm not sure that hooking up two of them would
work (plus I'm pretty sure they are not rated at the 35A or so amperage
of a dryer).

I think the easiest thing would be to put a clamp-on ammeter on it --
which shouldn't be too hard since one typically has easy access to the
dryer end of the cord where the wires terminate. Don't forget to measure
current in both legs of course.

Actually, with a clamp-on meter, would you get an accurate rating of
220v current if you clamped around both hot legs but with the direction
of the wire in one of the legs reversed 180 degrees -- my thinking is
that reversing the wire direction would make both currents appear in
phase and hence be additive...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

IMO I think you would be measuring it twice.
the current flows from one end of the 220 volt supply, thorugh the the
machine, mainly the heaters, and back through the other 220 volt as a
return. Some dryers do have some 110 volt that would unbalnce that a
bit but not much.

On Jan 28, 1:22*pm, JP wrote:
Cost to run dryer

I live on the Central Oregon Coast & my electric company says its
about27.6 cents per HR
our rates are 6.14 cents per kilowatt hr.

That's relatively cheap; but does that include ALL the charges.
To get ours I divide the total bill (which includes a per account and
sales tax charges) by total k.w.hrs.
Since we are on an even monthly charge plan, the same every month,
adjusted annually, it's accurate.

On Jan 28, 1:22*pm, JP wrote:
Cost to run dryer

I live on the Central Oregon Coast & my electric company says its
about27.6 cents per HR
our rates are 6.14 cents per kilowatt hr.

There was one common model we used in one of the Gulf states called
the Indesit, made IIRC in Italy.
It was quickly nicknamed 'THE INDECENT' .
Problem was that once you started it you couldn't open the door! It
didn't use much water and took ages to rock back and forth and 'do' a
wash. Then the problem of drying clothes. Either hanging them up in
front of the AC (even that was dusty) or finally installing a large US
style 230 volt dryer. The electricity btw, was all 230 volt 50 hertz.

On Jan 28, 1:27*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"blueman" wrote in message

...





No, you still can't clamp around both wires. *This is 220/240 *single
phase* -- true, you are using two legs of opposite phase, but the net
voltage is still single phase. *Iow, there is single phase and three phase,
but no two phase -- heh, funny how that works.

But the clamp-on is a good idea, because it is esp. accurate on a purely
resistive load -- no power factor to worry about.
You would, however, have to subtract out the the motor current of one leg,
tho.
If one hot were reading 20 A, and the other leg were reading 16 A, the total
wattage would be:
16 x 240 + 4 x 120 x .8 , where .8 would be a typical (inductive) power
factor for motors.
Presumably the neutral coming from the dryer would also read that same 4 A,
but who knows what's going with grounds, etc.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not two PHASES. The TWO ends of the same single phase supply. Which
also has a centre tap to provide a zero point for two 120 volt 'legs'.
Have lived in a house that had a single neutral and three separate
phases each 120 degrees apart!
There was a 3 phase main breaker and then three separate sections to
the breaker panel.

Pete C. wrote:
Existential Angst wrote:

"Tony" wrote in message
...
amdx wrote:
"terry" wrote in message
...
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some
45 minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt
hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.


I think your math is wrong.
I'll split the difference on the heating element
wattage and call it 3750 watts.
If you ran it 1 hr that would be 3.75kwh.
But, you only run it 45 minutes. so 45/60 x 3.75 = 2.8125kwh
And, it's only on 80% of the 45 minutes.
So, .8 x 2.8125khw = 2.25kwh
Then 10 cents x 2.25 kwh = 22.5 cents
Mike

Sounds right to me. I had done a search not long ago and found the
average cost to dry a load of wash was between $0.25 to $0.50
depending on your electricity cost. Ten cents is on the low side
and it goes up a little over $0.20 in some areas.

Try $1.00, past the initial bull**** low-balled "tier" levels.
mebbe 10c for the first 10 kw.... heh.
--
EA

The tiers here are just the opposite, cost per KWh goes down as usage
goes up. Go figure...

If a utility has huge surplus generation capablility, that makes sense. Where
are you?

Bob F wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Existential Angst wrote:

"Tony" wrote in message
...
amdx wrote:
"terry" wrote in message
...
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some
45 minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt
hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.


I think your math is wrong.
I'll split the difference on the heating element
wattage and call it 3750 watts.
If you ran it 1 hr that would be 3.75kwh.
But, you only run it 45 minutes. so 45/60 x 3.75 = 2.8125kwh
And, it's only on 80% of the 45 minutes.
So, .8 x 2.8125khw = 2.25kwh
Then 10 cents x 2.25 kwh = 22.5 cents
Mike

Sounds right to me. I had done a search not long ago and found the
average cost to dry a load of wash was between $0.25 to $0.50
depending on your electricity cost. Ten cents is on the low side
and it goes up a little over $0.20 in some areas.

Try $1.00, past the initial bull**** low-balled "tier" levels.
mebbe 10c for the first 10 kw.... heh.
--
EA

The tiers here are just the opposite, cost per KWh goes down as usage
goes up. Go figure...

If a utility has huge surplus generation capablility, that makes sense. Where
are you?

N. TX.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:27:12 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"blueman" wrote in message
...
"Existential Angst" writes:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and check
the wattage again. I'd take the average and multiply it by the time
a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. Without
knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at Costco.
I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

Heh.... good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V legs....

I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.

Yeah but isn't the 220 draw from hot to hot with the only current
returning through the neutral being the 110v leg that typically runs the
light and the motor. So, I'm not sure that hooking up two of them would
work (plus I'm pretty sure they are not rated at the 35A or so amperage
of a dryer).

I think the easiest thing would be to put a clamp-on ammeter on it --
which shouldn't be too hard since one typically has easy access to the
dryer end of the cord where the wires terminate. Don't forget to measure
current in both legs of course.

Actually, with a clamp-on meter, would you get an accurate rating of
220v current if you clamped around both hot legs but with the direction
of the wire in one of the legs reversed 180 degrees -- my thinking is
that reversing the wire direction would make both currents appear in
phase and hence be additive...

No, you still can't clamp around both wires. This is 220/240 *single
phase* -- true, you are using two legs of opposite phase, but the net
voltage is still single phase. Iow, there is single phase and three phase,
but no two phase -- heh, funny how that works.

But the clamp-on is a good idea, because it is esp. accurate on a purely
resistive load -- no power factor to worry about.
You would, however, have to subtract out the the motor current of one leg,
tho.
If one hot were reading 20 A, and the other leg were reading 16 A, the total
wattage would be:
16 x 240 + 4 x 120 x .8 , where .8 would be a typical (inductive) power
factor for motors.
Presumably the neutral coming from the dryer would also read that same 4 A,
but who knows what's going with grounds, etc.

Since it is single phase, the current in both legs will be the same.
And you don't add them to get the total.

wrote:

On Jan 28, 11:44*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

-snip-
A much much bigger factor:
* * How corrupt is a state's legislature?
Given the corruption factor in NY, I spose 30c/kWhr (what it winds up really
being, not the bull**** 9c) is still a bargain.
--
EA



Please post us a link to the utility in NY where electricity costs 30C
a kwh for any typical amount of residential usage. I've seen many
tables showing electricity costs, highs, lows, etc and have never seen
anywhere that it costs 30c.

30cents wouldn't surprise me for ConEd, LIPA or Central Hudson. The
average is supposedly 19cents;
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electri...able5_6_a.html

I'm served by National Grid- one of the bigger upstate suppliers- and
usually on the low end. They have on the bill that they are selling
me electricity for 6.8cents. But when I divide the bill by the KWH,
I find I'm paying over 15cents. LIPA and ConEd both advertise over
20 cents & they both have higher taxes than upstate- so 30cents is
real easy to believe.

But I think California and Hawaii are higher.

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
wrote:

On Jan 28, 11:44 am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

-snip-
A much much bigger factor:
How corrupt is a state's legislature?
Given the corruption factor in NY, I spose 30c/kWhr (what it winds up really
being, not the bull**** 9c) is still a bargain.
--
EA


Please post us a link to the utility in NY where electricity costs 30C
a kwh for any typical amount of residential usage. I've seen many
tables showing electricity costs, highs, lows, etc and have never seen
anywhere that it costs 30c.

30cents wouldn't surprise me for ConEd, LIPA or Central Hudson. The
average is supposedly 19cents;
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electri...able5_6_a.html

I'm served by National Grid- one of the bigger upstate suppliers- and
usually on the low end. They have on the bill that they are selling
me electricity for 6.8cents. But when I divide the bill by the KWH,
I find I'm paying over 15cents. LIPA and ConEd both advertise over
20 cents & they both have higher taxes than upstate- so 30cents is
real easy to believe.

But I think California and Hawaii are higher.

It also all depends on what particular rate is being spoken of --
depending on locale and what particular rules are for the various
state/local commissions, there's generally an approved "base rate" but
when the fuel adjustment and so on are included the actual end-user cost
is generally higher (sometimes significantly so). It can even vary
within the state from utility to utility based on specifics of a
generation mix, construction costs for needed expansion or to meet
mandated generation mix requirements, or pollution abatement edicts,
etc., etc., etc., ... IOW, despite wishes to the contrary there still
is no free lunch.

--

Metspitzer wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:27:12 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"blueman" wrote in message
...
"Existential Angst" writes:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
terry wrote:
Our very conventional old style tumble dryer timer runs for some 45
minutes per load.

With heater cutting in and out (estimating it's on say 80%?).

Heater elements are either 3000 watts or maybe 4500, haven't had
this one apart yet, since I got it in exchange for a dozen beer!

Our domestic electricity costs a little over 10 cents per k.watt hr.

So one load of clothes 45/60 x 0.8 a cost of electricity = 0.75 x
0.8 x 0.12 = 7 cents per load.

Occasionally it is necessary to run a 'heavy' load, towels and
blankets etc. part of a second run.

So maybe that could be say 12 to 15 cents per load. In summer we
hang bedclothes and towels on outside lines.

Weigh the load going in and coming out. Each pound lost takes
0.285kWh. Some cotton garments are very heavy going into the dryer,
and they probably cost a lot to dry.

You would have to add the cost of turning the drum and blowing the
air. I could get the wattage by timing my power meter after
switching off all my other circuits and starting a load in with no
heat. After the load dried, I'd run it without heat again and check
the wattage again. I'd take the average and multiply it by the time
a load ran. The exit air is warmer than the entrance air. Without
knowing the
volume of air my dryer blows, I can't tell if that adds much to the
cost.

I think the Kill-a-Watt EZ will do all that. I believe it measures
instantaneous wattage AND accumulates kWhrs.... about $25 at Costco.
I have one, but haven't used it yet.

You have a 110 V dryer?

Heh.... good point....
I wonder if you could use two Kill-a-Watts, on different 120 V legs....

I might try that, cuz I bought one for my BIL.

Yeah but isn't the 220 draw from hot to hot with the only current
returning through the neutral being the 110v leg that typically runs the
light and the motor. So, I'm not sure that hooking up two of them would
work (plus I'm pretty sure they are not rated at the 35A or so amperage
of a dryer).

I think the easiest thing would be to put a clamp-on ammeter on it --
which shouldn't be too hard since one typically has easy access to the
dryer end of the cord where the wires terminate. Don't forget to measure
current in both legs of course.

Actually, with a clamp-on meter, would you get an accurate rating of
220v current if you clamped around both hot legs but with the direction
of the wire in one of the legs reversed 180 degrees -- my thinking is
that reversing the wire direction would make both currents appear in
phase and hence be additive...

No, you still can't clamp around both wires. This is 220/240 *single
phase* -- true, you are using two legs of opposite phase, but the net
voltage is still single phase. Iow, there is single phase and three phase,
but no two phase -- heh, funny how that works.

But the clamp-on is a good idea, because it is esp. accurate on a purely
resistive load -- no power factor to worry about.
You would, however, have to subtract out the the motor current of one leg,
tho.
If one hot were reading 20 A, and the other leg were reading 16 A, the total
wattage would be:
16 x 240 + 4 x 120 x .8 , where .8 would be a typical (inductive) power
factor for motors.
Presumably the neutral coming from the dryer would also read that same 4 A,
but who knows what's going with grounds, etc.

Since it is single phase, the current in both legs will be the same.
And you don't add them to get the total.

The current will be slightly asymmetric since a dryer typically has 120V
control loads in addition to 240V heating elements. This is where the
neutral current on the ground issue arises and why the current code has
4 wire receptacles for dryers with separate neutral and ground
conductors.

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Jan 28, 11:44 am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

-snip-
A much much bigger factor:
How corrupt is a state's legislature?
Given the corruption factor in NY, I spose 30c/kWhr (what it winds up
really
being, not the bull**** 9c) is still a bargain.
--
EA



Please post us a link to the utility in NY where electricity costs 30C
a kwh for any typical amount of residential usage. I've seen many
tables showing electricity costs, highs, lows, etc and have never seen
anywhere that it costs 30c.

30cents wouldn't surprise me for ConEd, LIPA or Central Hudson. The
average is supposedly 19cents;
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electri...able5_6_a.html

I'm served by National Grid- one of the bigger upstate suppliers- and
usually on the low end. They have on the bill that they are selling
me electricity for 6.8cents. But when I divide the bill by the KWH,
I find I'm paying over 15cents. LIPA and ConEd both advertise over
20 cents & they both have higher taxes than upstate- so 30cents is
real easy to believe.

But I think California and Hawaii are higher.

They are.
But I don't think Trader is really curious, as much as he just wants to
catch me in a lie, like SaltyAss, Ricodjour, ****ty Two, and their ilk.

Again, for the slow, my near-30c rate is not an explicit, published rate --
the published rate is 9c.
But the *real* rate I wind up paying, when I divide the $$ that I mail in by
the kWhr that I got, is near 30c.

It's good to hear that not everyone is f'd ita like this. But CA, NY, and a
bunch of others are.
I suspect everyone's turn will come, tho. After all, what corp. concern can
resist the easy fleecing of millions of sheeple? What CongressShill has
the balls to fight it? If balls is even an issue -- corruption is the
issue.

Free Money, Free Money!!!
--
EA






Jim