My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have to go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach to the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their hp --
a total scam.
--
EA

mcp6453 wrote:
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP
Electronic Plunge Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00
Now I'm going to have to go through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the
motor.

The only problem with plunge routers is that it can be tricky to control the
depth with a fine degree of control.

Jon

On Jan 4, 7:18*pm, mcp6453 wrote:
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going through the

The plunge mechanism is controlled by a couple of springs trapped in
the plunge mechanism. It is not too big a deal to remove the springs
if you want to mount the router in a table. The trick then becomes
how to "dial in" a specific bit height. You may be better off saving
your pennies for one of those Triton (made in Australia?) routers that
come with the "above the table" bit height crank knob. There are also
good plans online for bit height adjusters that are basically a chunk
of all-thread and a plywood disc.

Make sure to invest in some hearing protection... routers really
scream.

The best router table I have ever had was a replacement wing for my
table saw... I can use the table saw fence for the router, and I
save a whole bunch of space in my shop. The wing was kind of pricey,
but then again so is buying/building a good standalone router table.

Get yourself a good book on routers, or visit the library and check
out a couple. Keep a good grip while using it, they are deceptively
dangerous.

Best of luck!

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
m...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach to the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.

On 1/5/2010 12:45 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach to the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their hp --
a total scam.

I understand that different manufacturers can rate things differently, but this
router weighs twice as much as my 1 HP router. It's almost too heavy to handle.

It has a knob sticking up for plunge dept adjustment. It has a very fine thread
on it. Since I have not used it, I don't how accurate it will be, but it should
do fine for my hacking.

I probably would not have purchased a 3HP (or whatever) router for my presently
minimal needs, but it will be great to have a second router that uses 1/2" bits,
plus I won't have to change bits as often when I'm using both routers.

"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In Craftsman routers of that vintage, beware the ARHA feature. It might be
the reason the router was almost new. It doesn't take very long to get
tired of the feature.

jc

(arha=automatic, random height adjustment)

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
om...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic
Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have
to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach to
the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their
hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


OK, my bad:
3 Sears hp = 1.1 Porter Cable hp.

Sears motor rating policy is common knowledge.
You can verify this for yourself with an ampprobe -- lock the spindle with a
vise grip, or wood in circular saw blade, or whatever, and measure the
current. Multiply by 120, then divide by 746. Wahlah -- their hp rating.

Now, take same circ saw, wail on a 4x4 until you "feel" that it is
counterproductive to push harder, measure the current, calc as above. That
would be the "real" hp rating, proly 1/3 the above locked rotor current,
mebbe even 1/10.

Do the same for a Porter Cable.

iirc, the FTC or some equivalent org made Sears suposedly stop this
practice, a few years ago.

Sears is no cute li'l retail bunny. After they were caught in NYS in their
auto repair ripoff scam, they were sued in mebbe a dozen other states, coast
to coast. google sears auto repair lawsuit.
Unfortly, google dudn't reveal much on their motor rating scam, but who
would expect less of Sears?
--
EA

On 1/5/2010 7:06 AM, Joe wrote:

In Craftsman routers of that vintage, beware the ARHA feature. It might be
the reason the router was almost new. It doesn't take very long to get
tired of the feature.

(arha=automatic, random height adjustment)

The reason it was almost new is that my father was elderly, and he never used it
very much, if at all. There's little to no sawdust on it.

wrote in message
news
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:27:42 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news:c9idnQuBg7fjIN_WnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giganews .com...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic
Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have
to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach to
the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their
hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


OK, my bad:
3 Sears hp = 1.1 Porter Cable hp.

Sears motor rating policy is common knowledge.
You can verify this for yourself with an ampprobe -- lock the spindle with
a
vise grip, or wood in circular saw blade, or whatever, and measure the
current. Multiply by 120, then divide by 746. Wahlah -- their hp rating.

Now, take same circ saw, wail on a 4x4 until you "feel" that it is
counterproductive to push harder, measure the current, calc as above.
That
would be the "real" hp rating, proly 1/3 the above locked rotor current,
mebbe even 1/10.

Do the same for a Porter Cable.

iirc, the FTC or some equivalent org made Sears suposedly stop this
practice, a few years ago.

Sears is no cute li'l retail bunny. After they were caught in NYS in
their
auto repair ripoff scam, they were sued in mebbe a dozen other states,
coast
to coast. google sears auto repair lawsuit.
Unfortly, google dudn't reveal much on their motor rating scam, but who
would expect less of Sears?

In other words, you pulled this accusation directly out of your ass.


No, the other words would more correctly be:
You don't know how to use an ampprobe, and don't have a fukn clue as to
what I'm talking about.
--
EA

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:56:23 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:27:42 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news:c9idnQuBg7fjIN_WnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@gigane ws.com...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic
Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to
have
to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach
to
the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their
hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


OK, my bad:
3 Sears hp = 1.1 Porter Cable hp.

Sears motor rating policy is common knowledge.
You can verify this for yourself with an ampprobe -- lock the spindle
with
a
vise grip, or wood in circular saw blade, or whatever, and measure the
current. Multiply by 120, then divide by 746. Wahlah -- their hp
rating.

Now, take same circ saw, wail on a 4x4 until you "feel" that it is
counterproductive to push harder, measure the current, calc as above.
That
would be the "real" hp rating, proly 1/3 the above locked rotor current,
mebbe even 1/10.

Do the same for a Porter Cable.

iirc, the FTC or some equivalent org made Sears suposedly stop this
practice, a few years ago.

Sears is no cute li'l retail bunny. After they were caught in NYS in
their
auto repair ripoff scam, they were sued in mebbe a dozen other states,
coast
to coast. google sears auto repair lawsuit.
Unfortly, google dudn't reveal much on their motor rating scam, but who
would expect less of Sears?

In other words, you pulled this accusation directly out of your ass.


No, the other words would more correctly be:
You don't know how to use an ampprobe, and don't have a fukn clue as
to
what I'm talking about.

No, that's not the case at all. I think you just completely made up a
story, or repeated one like a parrot, without ANY hard evidence to
back it up.

Well, dude, I have the hardest evidence you can name: I verified this for
myself, with.... an ampprobe.
Since you """"claim"""" you know what an ampprobe is, and how to use it,
then do what I said, and verify my claim for yourself, instead being an
effing polly purebread net etiquette asshole.

I haven't done this on recent sears stuff (cuz I don't have recent stuff)
to see if they indeed did clean up their fraudulent act.
I'll bet you will *still* find a fair discrepancy between how Sears rates
their stuff and how porter cable, bosch, et al rate their stuff, just not
the outrageous discrepancies there were before.

Now, if you think I'm just flat out lying, or that I don't know how to use
an ampprobe properly, then again, try it yourself, or go whine to your shop
teacher.

I *admitted* to not being able to find cites on google, while the auto fraud
stuff popped right up, but that doesn't mean much, because 1. ahm no
google whiz, and 2. this is a subtler less recognizable issue media-wise.
If sears was sanctioned by some trade organization, instead of sued by the
FTC or sundry attorney generals, then you would expect documentation to be
harder to find.

Oh, and another thing:

Even if the motor under full load draws a current that corresponds to a
claimed hp, that STILL doesn't mean that hp is being mechanically
generated -- the motor could be substantially inefficient so that the
delivered hp to the blade is substantially less. It is equivalent to
measuring how much gas a car is burning, and converting that to engine hp --
unthinkable, with dynamometers readily available to car testers.

It's also roughly similar to the diff between hp at the crankshaft and
rear-wheel hp -- sig losses can occur.

THIS type of thing is almost impossible for a diy-er to measure/verify, and
an asshole, such as yerself, COULD arger that mebbe the porter cable has
LESS *delivered or blade hp* than a sears, because even if the load current
measurements.are greater for the PC, mebbe it's motor is so inefficient that
less "blade hp" is delivered than the sears, even with sears locked-rotor
current bull****.

While in principle this is true, it is highly highly unlikely, because
disreputable organizations that use locked-rotor current to advertise hp
surely aren't giving too many hoots regarding their cheap-ass motor designs,
from china.

Case in point:
I have their former top-of-the-line RAS, and I can't rip 2x4s for more than
10-15 minutes before the motor goes out on thermal overload. Which then
takes about 15 minutes to cool down.
****ed as I am about that, I'm nevertheless grateful that the effing
weak-assed motor (multi-hp, of course) HAS a thermal reset button, so at
least the effing motor doesn't smoke.

YOU have.... how many Sears tools? What brand of ampprobe??
--
EA


I'm not even saying that Sears did or didn't do what you claim. I'm
saying you don't really know if it is true, either. You made a bunch
of unsubstantiated claims and can't provide any cites to back them up.

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:56:23 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:27:42 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news:c9idnQuBg7fjIN_WnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@gigan ews.com...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic
Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to
have
to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use
a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach
to
the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their
hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


OK, my bad:
3 Sears hp = 1.1 Porter Cable hp.

Sears motor rating policy is common knowledge.
You can verify this for yourself with an ampprobe -- lock the spindle
with
a
vise grip, or wood in circular saw blade, or whatever, and measure the
current. Multiply by 120, then divide by 746. Wahlah -- their hp
rating.

Now, take same circ saw, wail on a 4x4 until you "feel" that it is
counterproductive to push harder, measure the current, calc as above.
That
would be the "real" hp rating, proly 1/3 the above locked rotor
current,
mebbe even 1/10.

Do the same for a Porter Cable.

iirc, the FTC or some equivalent org made Sears suposedly stop this
practice, a few years ago.

Sears is no cute li'l retail bunny. After they were caught in NYS in
their
auto repair ripoff scam, they were sued in mebbe a dozen other states,
coast
to coast. google sears auto repair lawsuit.
Unfortly, google dudn't reveal much on their motor rating scam, but who
would expect less of Sears?

In other words, you pulled this accusation directly out of your ass.


No, the other words would more correctly be:
You don't know how to use an ampprobe, and don't have a fukn clue as
to
what I'm talking about.

No, that's not the case at all. I think you just completely made up a
story, or repeated one like a parrot, without ANY hard evidence to
back it up.

Well, dude, I have the hardest evidence you can name: I verified this for
myself, with.... an ampprobe.
Since you """"claim"""" you know what an ampprobe is, and how to use it,
then do what I said, and verify my claim for yourself, instead being an
effing polly purebread net etiquette asshole.

I haven't done this on recent sears stuff (cuz I don't have recent stuff)
to see if they indeed did clean up their fraudulent act.
I'll bet you will *still* find a fair discrepancy between how Sears rates
their stuff and how porter cable, bosch, et al rate their stuff, just not
the outrageous discrepancies there were before.

Now, if you think I'm just flat out lying, or that I don't know how to use
an ampprobe properly, then again, try it yourself, or go whine to your
shop teacher.

I *admitted* to not being able to find cites on google, while the auto
fraud stuff popped right up, but that doesn't mean much, because 1. ahm
no google whiz, and 2. this is a subtler less recognizable issue
media-wise.
If sears was sanctioned by some trade organization, instead of sued by the
FTC or sundry attorney generals, then you would expect documentation to be
harder to find.

Oh, and another thing:

Even if the motor under full load draws a current that corresponds to a
claimed hp, that STILL doesn't mean that hp is being mechanically
generated -- the motor could be substantially inefficient so that the
delivered hp to the blade is substantially less. It is equivalent to
measuring how much gas a car is burning, and converting that to engine
hp -- unthinkable, with dynamometers readily available to car testers.

It's also roughly similar to the diff between hp at the crankshaft and
rear-wheel hp -- sig losses can occur.

THIS type of thing is almost impossible for a diy-er to measure/verify,
and an asshole, such as yerself, COULD arger that mebbe the porter cable
has LESS *delivered or blade hp* than a sears, because even if the load
current measurements.are greater for the PC, mebbe it's motor is so
inefficient that less "blade hp" is delivered than the sears, even with
sears locked-rotor current bull****.

While in principle this is true, it is highly highly unlikely, because
disreputable organizations that use locked-rotor current to advertise hp
surely aren't giving too many hoots regarding their cheap-ass motor
designs, from china.

Case in point:
I have their former top-of-the-line RAS, and I can't rip 2x4s for more
than 10-15 minutes before the motor goes out on thermal overload. Which
then takes about 15 minutes to cool down.
****ed as I am about that, I'm nevertheless grateful that the effing
weak-assed motor (multi-hp, of course) HAS a thermal reset button, so at
least the effing motor doesn't smoke.

YOU have.... how many Sears tools? What brand of ampprobe??

Oh yeah, one more thing:

Sears used to use the phrase "developed hp". I think on my RAS it was 2 3/4
hp.
Now, here's what you do:

Go to an effing Sears, and look at their 10" radial arm saw. Look at the
motor, and look at the itty bitty armature. I'd guess that the effing motor
itself weighs about 5 lbs.

Now, go to graingers.com, and look at ANY 2-3 hp motor -- look at the
dimensions, and the weight -- how does 20-30+ lbs grab you?

And then tell us if you think that a sears 2-3 hp rating is anywhere near
realistic.

Also, a brush tool motor compared to a grainger induction motor might not be
100% fair, BUT I believe the sears RAS motor IS an induction motor, so this
test is probably closer to fair. It might not be a fair test for, say, a
router, which IS a brush motor.
Still, their hp claim for the router is likely way over-rated, using locked
rotor current..

--
EA

--
EA


I'm not even saying that Sears did or didn't do what you claim. I'm
saying you don't really know if it is true, either. You made a bunch
of unsubstantiated claims and can't provide any cites to back them up.

"Jon Danniken" wrote in
:

mcp6453 wrote:
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP
Electronic Plunge Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00
Now I'm going to have to go through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the
motor.

The only problem with plunge routers is that it can be tricky to
control the depth with a fine degree of control.

Jon



Ever see the Tim Allen plunge router episode?

wrote in :

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
om...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic
Plunge Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm
going to have to go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach
to the table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their
hp -- a total scam.

Cites, please.


Just some doc I found. Maybe good bickering material :-)

http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/pt...epowerProc.pdf

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:38:21 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:56:23 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:27:42 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ts76k5pgisqgrc4rv3h37rsfld6clnkr5g@4ax. com...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news:c9idnQuBg7fjIN_WnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giga news.com...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was
going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic
Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to
have
to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use
a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach
to
the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc
their
hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


OK, my bad:
3 Sears hp = 1.1 Porter Cable hp.

Sears motor rating policy is common knowledge.
You can verify this for yourself with an ampprobe -- lock the spindle
with
a
vise grip, or wood in circular saw blade, or whatever, and measure the
current. Multiply by 120, then divide by 746. Wahlah -- their hp
rating.

Now, take same circ saw, wail on a 4x4 until you "feel" that it is
counterproductive to push harder, measure the current, calc as above.
That
would be the "real" hp rating, proly 1/3 the above locked rotor
current,
mebbe even 1/10.

Do the same for a Porter Cable.

iirc, the FTC or some equivalent org made Sears suposedly stop this
practice, a few years ago.

Sears is no cute li'l retail bunny. After they were caught in NYS in
their
auto repair ripoff scam, they were sued in mebbe a dozen other states,
coast
to coast. google sears auto repair lawsuit.
Unfortly, google dudn't reveal much on their motor rating scam, but
who
would expect less of Sears?

In other words, you pulled this accusation directly out of your ass.


No, the other words would more correctly be:
You don't know how to use an ampprobe, and don't have a fukn clue
as
to
what I'm talking about.

No, that's not the case at all. I think you just completely made up a
story, or repeated one like a parrot, without ANY hard evidence to
back it up.

Well, dude, I have the hardest evidence you can name: I verified this for
myself, with.... an ampprobe.
Since you """"claim"""" you know what an ampprobe is, and how to use it,
then do what I said, and verify my claim for yourself, instead being an
effing polly purebread net etiquette asshole.

I haven't done this on recent sears stuff (cuz I don't have recent stuff)
to see if they indeed did clean up their fraudulent act.
I'll bet you will *still* find a fair discrepancy between how Sears rates
their stuff and how porter cable, bosch, et al rate their stuff, just not
the outrageous discrepancies there were before.

Now, if you think I'm just flat out lying, or that I don't know how to use
an ampprobe properly, then again, try it yourself, or go whine to your
shop
teacher.

I *admitted* to not being able to find cites on google, while the auto
fraud
stuff popped right up, but that doesn't mean much, because 1. ahm no
google whiz, and 2. this is a subtler less recognizable issue media-wise.
If sears was sanctioned by some trade organization, instead of sued by the
FTC or sundry attorney generals, then you would expect documentation to be
harder to find.

Oh, and another thing:

Even if the motor under full load draws a current that corresponds to a
claimed hp, that STILL doesn't mean that hp is being mechanically
generated -- the motor could be substantially inefficient so that the
delivered hp to the blade is substantially less. It is equivalent to
measuring how much gas a car is burning, and converting that to engine
hp --
unthinkable, with dynamometers readily available to car testers.

It's also roughly similar to the diff between hp at the crankshaft and
rear-wheel hp -- sig losses can occur.

THIS type of thing is almost impossible for a diy-er to measure/verify,
and
an asshole, such as yerself, COULD arger that mebbe the porter cable has
LESS *delivered or blade hp* than a sears, because even if the load
current
measurements.are greater for the PC, mebbe it's motor is so inefficient
that
less "blade hp" is delivered than the sears, even with sears locked-rotor
current bull****.

While in principle this is true, it is highly highly unlikely, because
disreputable organizations that use locked-rotor current to advertise hp
surely aren't giving too many hoots regarding their cheap-ass motor
designs,
from china.

Case in point:
I have their former top-of-the-line RAS, and I can't rip 2x4s for more
than
10-15 minutes before the motor goes out on thermal overload. Which then
takes about 15 minutes to cool down.
****ed as I am about that, I'm nevertheless grateful that the effing
weak-assed motor (multi-hp, of course) HAS a thermal reset button, so at
least the effing motor doesn't smoke.

YOU have.... how many Sears tools? What brand of ampprobe??

Thanks for this lengthy, rambling, disjointed, nonsensical post
proving you have exactly NOTHING to back up your specious claims.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean: When *I* don't understand something, it
indeed appears like rambling. Mebbe have your shop teacher explain it to
you.


Calling me names, or speculating on my level of expertise, does
exactly nothing to back up your original claim.

And... you've.... checked a sears tool with your ampprobe?


Still waiting for some cites from a reliable source. You calimed that
the government was involved, so that means there should be cites
available. Until you produce those, you are just making **** up.

Well, my ampprobe was pretty reliable. You want me to publish my results in
a pee-reviewed journal?

And what I said was, "... the FTC or some equivalent org....".
It's pretty clear the FTC was NOT involved, since I don't think they even
much got involved with the auto fraud case -- that was state attorney
generals doing their own revenue raising..
It was probably a trade organization. Since you're so effing smart, mebbe
you can google it up?

My points remain... that you can't follow them is your own problem.
You have proven that you can't follow them, because you haven't addressed a
single one of them -- you just bleat about the cite, the cite, the cite.

Do the test yourself.... or have your shop teacher show you how.
Hint: when you ampprobe sumpn, you can't ampprobe the hot and neutral
together, so you need a split-wire adapter.
HTH.
--
EA

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
wrote in :

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news:c9idnQuBg7fjIN_WnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giganews. com...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic
Plunge Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm
going to have to go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach
to the table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their
hp -- a total scam.

Cites, please.


Just some doc I found. Maybe good bickering material :-)

http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/pt...epowerProc.pdf

Should send Sears a copy.
--
EA

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news
On 1/5/2010 7:06 AM, Joe wrote:

In Craftsman routers of that vintage, beware the ARHA feature. It might
be
the reason the router was almost new. It doesn't take very long to get
tired of the feature.

(arha=automatic, random height adjustment)

The reason it was almost new is that my father was elderly, and he never
used it
very much, if at all. There's little to no sawdust on it.

No offense intended. The arha feature is something of a running reference
in another newsgroup about that particular routers tendency to have bits
slip in the collet and therefore automatically (and randomly) change the
depth of cut. Here's hoping yours doesn't do that. To answer your
question, yes, it can be mounted in a router table. I had mine in one for
years in addition to using it handheld. You definitely want it in a router
table if you plan on spinning any larger diameter bits.

Have fun!

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:51:21 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:38:21 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:56:23 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news4f6k518jc8ddd0k7ateoribejcc5ac0k5@4ax. com...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:27:42 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ts76k5pgisqgrc4rv3h37rsfld6clnkr5g@4a x.com...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news:c9idnQuBg7fjIN_WnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@gi ganews.com...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was
going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP
Electronic
Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going
to
have
to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to
use
a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the
motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to
attach
to
the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc
their
hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


OK, my bad:
3 Sears hp = 1.1 Porter Cable hp.

Sears motor rating policy is common knowledge.
You can verify this for yourself with an ampprobe -- lock the
spindle
with
a
vise grip, or wood in circular saw blade, or whatever, and measure
the
current. Multiply by 120, then divide by 746. Wahlah -- their hp
rating.

Now, take same circ saw, wail on a 4x4 until you "feel" that it is
counterproductive to push harder, measure the current, calc as
above.
That
would be the "real" hp rating, proly 1/3 the above locked rotor
current,
mebbe even 1/10.

Do the same for a Porter Cable.

iirc, the FTC or some equivalent org made Sears suposedly stop this
practice, a few years ago.

Sears is no cute li'l retail bunny. After they were caught in NYS
in
their
auto repair ripoff scam, they were sued in mebbe a dozen other
states,
coast
to coast. google sears auto repair lawsuit.
Unfortly, google dudn't reveal much on their motor rating scam, but
who
would expect less of Sears?

In other words, you pulled this accusation directly out of your ass.


No, the other words would more correctly be:
You don't know how to use an ampprobe, and don't have a fukn clue
as
to
what I'm talking about.

No, that's not the case at all. I think you just completely made up a
story, or repeated one like a parrot, without ANY hard evidence to
back it up.

Well, dude, I have the hardest evidence you can name: I verified this
for
myself, with.... an ampprobe.
Since you """"claim"""" you know what an ampprobe is, and how to use it,
then do what I said, and verify my claim for yourself, instead being an
effing polly purebread net etiquette asshole.

I haven't done this on recent sears stuff (cuz I don't have recent
stuff)
to see if they indeed did clean up their fraudulent act.
I'll bet you will *still* find a fair discrepancy between how Sears
rates
their stuff and how porter cable, bosch, et al rate their stuff, just
not
the outrageous discrepancies there were before.

Now, if you think I'm just flat out lying, or that I don't know how to
use
an ampprobe properly, then again, try it yourself, or go whine to your
shop
teacher.

I *admitted* to not being able to find cites on google, while the auto
fraud
stuff popped right up, but that doesn't mean much, because 1. ahm no
google whiz, and 2. this is a subtler less recognizable issue
media-wise.
If sears was sanctioned by some trade organization, instead of sued by
the
FTC or sundry attorney generals, then you would expect documentation to
be
harder to find.

Oh, and another thing:

Even if the motor under full load draws a current that corresponds to a
claimed hp, that STILL doesn't mean that hp is being mechanically
generated -- the motor could be substantially inefficient so that the
delivered hp to the blade is substantially less. It is equivalent to
measuring how much gas a car is burning, and converting that to engine
hp --
unthinkable, with dynamometers readily available to car testers.

It's also roughly similar to the diff between hp at the crankshaft and
rear-wheel hp -- sig losses can occur.

THIS type of thing is almost impossible for a diy-er to measure/verify,
and
an asshole, such as yerself, COULD arger that mebbe the porter cable has
LESS *delivered or blade hp* than a sears, because even if the load
current
measurements.are greater for the PC, mebbe it's motor is so inefficient
that
less "blade hp" is delivered than the sears, even with sears
locked-rotor
current bull****.

While in principle this is true, it is highly highly unlikely, because
disreputable organizations that use locked-rotor current to advertise hp
surely aren't giving too many hoots regarding their cheap-ass motor
designs,
from china.

Case in point:
I have their former top-of-the-line RAS, and I can't rip 2x4s for more
than
10-15 minutes before the motor goes out on thermal overload. Which then
takes about 15 minutes to cool down.
****ed as I am about that, I'm nevertheless grateful that the effing
weak-assed motor (multi-hp, of course) HAS a thermal reset button, so at
least the effing motor doesn't smoke.

YOU have.... how many Sears tools? What brand of ampprobe??

Thanks for this lengthy, rambling, disjointed, nonsensical post
proving you have exactly NOTHING to back up your specious claims.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean: When *I* don't understand something,
it
indeed appears like rambling. Mebbe have your shop teacher explain it to
you.


Calling me names, or speculating on my level of expertise, does
exactly nothing to back up your original claim.

And... you've.... checked a sears tool with your ampprobe?


Still waiting for some cites from a reliable source. You calimed that
the government was involved, so that means there should be cites
available. Until you produce those, you are just making **** up.

Well, my ampprobe was pretty reliable. You want me to publish my results
in
a pee-reviewed journal?

And what I said was, "... the FTC or some equivalent org....".
It's pretty clear the FTC was NOT involved, since I don't think they even
much got involved with the auto fraud case -- that was state attorney
generals doing their own revenue raising..
It was probably a trade organization. Since you're so effing smart, mebbe
you can google it up?

My points remain... that you can't follow them is your own problem.
You have proven that you can't follow them, because you haven't addressed
a
single one of them -- you just bleat about the cite, the cite, the cite.

Do the test yourself.... or have your shop teacher show you how.
Hint: when you ampprobe sumpn, you can't ampprobe the hot and neutral
together, so you need a split-wire adapter.
HTH.

Here's how it works:

me: "Lawn Darts (Jarts) are dangerous and people have been killed by
them"

you: "I don't believe that. I think you just made it up. Please
provide cites to back up your absurd claim."

me: http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/PRHTML97/97122.html


See how easy that is, when you are stating FACTS?

And you believe everything you read?
Dude, learn how to put an ampprobe on a motor, or just stfu.
You obviously aren't willing to think for yourself, or do your own tests.
You prefer to perform fellatio on any figure of authority..

It's just like those assholes ****ty Two and Ricodjour, who fought me tooth
and nail on the Dual Saw, not understnading the concept of climb cutting.
They wanted cites too, and it just so happened there were about a million
refs to climb cutting using saw blades.

But I need not have had to have provided any effing cites -- it's simple
effing logic, and a little marketing savvy.
Asshole companies mis-market their ****. Asshole consumers, like you, fall
for that **** hook line and sinker, and THEN defend their purchases.

Heh, if yer going to fellate, you might as well swallow -- brain food,
donchaknow.
Heh, you might as well make everyone happy and fellate the people as Sears.
Enjoy yer horsepower.
--
EA

"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

IIRC the Craftsman routers are not thought of well by woodworkers as the
collets tend to loosen when they should stay tight and as a result gain the
nick name carbide ejectors or something like that.

You might want to ask about them on rec.woodworking those guys seem to know
their tools.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

Red Green wrote:




Ever see the Tim Allen plunge router episode?

Oh I probably did, that was a long time ago though. G

Jon

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:36:38 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:51:21 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:38:21 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:k9h6k5lq2tfe8lnrhqv6h1jpigph2ajqn5@4ax. com...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:56:23 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news4f6k518jc8ddd0k7ateoribejcc5ac0k5@4a x.com...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:27:42 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ts76k5pgisqgrc4rv3h37rsfld6clnkr5g@ 4ax.com...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news:c9idnQuBg7fjIN_WnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@ giganews.com...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was
going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP
Electronic
Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going
to
have
to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to
use
a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the
motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to
attach
to
the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc
their
hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


OK, my bad:
3 Sears hp = 1.1 Porter Cable hp.

Sears motor rating policy is common knowledge.
You can verify this for yourself with an ampprobe -- lock the
spindle
with
a
vise grip, or wood in circular saw blade, or whatever, and measure
the
current. Multiply by 120, then divide by 746. Wahlah -- their hp
rating.

Now, take same circ saw, wail on a 4x4 until you "feel" that it is
counterproductive to push harder, measure the current, calc as
above.
That
would be the "real" hp rating, proly 1/3 the above locked rotor
current,
mebbe even 1/10.

Do the same for a Porter Cable.

iirc, the FTC or some equivalent org made Sears suposedly stop
this
practice, a few years ago.

Sears is no cute li'l retail bunny. After they were caught in NYS
in
their
auto repair ripoff scam, they were sued in mebbe a dozen other
states,
coast
to coast. google sears auto repair lawsuit.
Unfortly, google dudn't reveal much on their motor rating scam,
but
who
would expect less of Sears?

In other words, you pulled this accusation directly out of your
ass.


No, the other words would more correctly be:
You don't know how to use an ampprobe, and don't have a fukn
clue
as
to
what I'm talking about.

No, that's not the case at all. I think you just completely made up
a
story, or repeated one like a parrot, without ANY hard evidence to
back it up.

Well, dude, I have the hardest evidence you can name: I verified this
for
myself, with.... an ampprobe.
Since you """"claim"""" you know what an ampprobe is, and how to use
it,
then do what I said, and verify my claim for yourself, instead being
an
effing polly purebread net etiquette asshole.

I haven't done this on recent sears stuff (cuz I don't have recent
stuff)
to see if they indeed did clean up their fraudulent act.
I'll bet you will *still* find a fair discrepancy between how Sears
rates
their stuff and how porter cable, bosch, et al rate their stuff, just
not
the outrageous discrepancies there were before.

Now, if you think I'm just flat out lying, or that I don't know how to
use
an ampprobe properly, then again, try it yourself, or go whine to your
shop
teacher.

I *admitted* to not being able to find cites on google, while the auto
fraud
stuff popped right up, but that doesn't mean much, because 1. ahm no
google whiz, and 2. this is a subtler less recognizable issue
media-wise.
If sears was sanctioned by some trade organization, instead of sued by
the
FTC or sundry attorney generals, then you would expect documentation
to
be
harder to find.

Oh, and another thing:

Even if the motor under full load draws a current that corresponds to
a
claimed hp, that STILL doesn't mean that hp is being mechanically
generated -- the motor could be substantially inefficient so that the
delivered hp to the blade is substantially less. It is equivalent to
measuring how much gas a car is burning, and converting that to engine
hp --
unthinkable, with dynamometers readily available to car testers.

It's also roughly similar to the diff between hp at the crankshaft and
rear-wheel hp -- sig losses can occur.

THIS type of thing is almost impossible for a diy-er to
measure/verify,
and
an asshole, such as yerself, COULD arger that mebbe the porter cable
has
LESS *delivered or blade hp* than a sears, because even if the load
current
measurements.are greater for the PC, mebbe it's motor is so
inefficient
that
less "blade hp" is delivered than the sears, even with sears
locked-rotor
current bull****.

While in principle this is true, it is highly highly unlikely, because
disreputable organizations that use locked-rotor current to advertise
hp
surely aren't giving too many hoots regarding their cheap-ass motor
designs,
from china.

Case in point:
I have their former top-of-the-line RAS, and I can't rip 2x4s for more
than
10-15 minutes before the motor goes out on thermal overload. Which
then
takes about 15 minutes to cool down.
****ed as I am about that, I'm nevertheless grateful that the effing
weak-assed motor (multi-hp, of course) HAS a thermal reset button, so
at
least the effing motor doesn't smoke.

YOU have.... how many Sears tools? What brand of ampprobe??

Thanks for this lengthy, rambling, disjointed, nonsensical post
proving you have exactly NOTHING to back up your specious claims.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean: When *I* don't understand
something,
it
indeed appears like rambling. Mebbe have your shop teacher explain it
to
you.


Calling me names, or speculating on my level of expertise, does
exactly nothing to back up your original claim.

And... you've.... checked a sears tool with your ampprobe?


Still waiting for some cites from a reliable source. You calimed that
the government was involved, so that means there should be cites
available. Until you produce those, you are just making **** up.

Well, my ampprobe was pretty reliable. You want me to publish my
results
in
a pee-reviewed journal?

And what I said was, "... the FTC or some equivalent org....".
It's pretty clear the FTC was NOT involved, since I don't think they
even
much got involved with the auto fraud case -- that was state attorney
generals doing their own revenue raising..
It was probably a trade organization. Since you're so effing smart,
mebbe
you can google it up?

My points remain... that you can't follow them is your own problem.
You have proven that you can't follow them, because you haven't
addressed
a
single one of them -- you just bleat about the cite, the cite, the cite.

Do the test yourself.... or have your shop teacher show you how.
Hint: when you ampprobe sumpn, you can't ampprobe the hot and neutral
together, so you need a split-wire adapter.
HTH.

Here's how it works:

me: "Lawn Darts (Jarts) are dangerous and people have been killed by
them"

you: "I don't believe that. I think you just made it up. Please
provide cites to back up your absurd claim."

me: http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/PRHTML97/97122.html


See how easy that is, when you are stating FACTS?

And you believe everything you read?
Dude, learn how to put an ampprobe on a motor, or just stfu.
You obviously aren't willing to think for yourself, or do your own tests.
You prefer to perform fellatio on any figure of authority..

It's just like those assholes ****ty Two and Ricodjour, who fought me
tooth
and nail on the Dual Saw, not understnading the concept of climb cutting.
They wanted cites too, and it just so happened there were about a million
refs to climb cutting using saw blades.

But I need not have had to have provided any effing cites -- it's simple
effing logic, and a little marketing savvy.
Asshole companies mis-market their ****. Asshole consumers, like you,
fall
for that **** hook line and sinker, and THEN defend their purchases.

Heh, if yer going to fellate, you might as well swallow -- brain food,
donchaknow.
Heh, you might as well make everyone happy and fellate the people as
Sears.
Enjoy yer horsepower.

Once again you come back throwing everything but the kictchen sink to
avoid the obvious fact that you completely made something up, and
can't defend it in any meaningful manner.

Friendly advice: Put down the shovel, already!

You are so rabidly stupid, you can no longer distinguish between my not
(currently) being able to provide your oh-so precious cite, and my making
things up.
I did better than provide the cite: I did the experiment. But this is
apparently too much for you to handle.

If you were smart, you'd perhaps quibble about *how* I did the experiment,
if it was a valid test etc but then, well, you're clearly not that smart.
You apparently have no grasp of what hp is, or how it is determined.

You are how Bush got elected -- twice.
--
EA

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:37:00 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:36:38 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:51:21 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:38:21 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:k9h6k5lq2tfe8lnrhqv6h1jpigph2ajqn5@4ax .com...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:56:23 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news4f6k518jc8ddd0k7ateoribejcc5ac0k5@4 ax.com...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:27:42 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ts76k5pgisqgrc4rv3h37rsfld6clnkr5g @4ax.com...
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news:c9idnQuBg7fjIN_WnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d @giganews.com...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was
going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP
Electronic
Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going
to
have
to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to
use
a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the
motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to
attach
to
the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc
their
hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


OK, my bad:
3 Sears hp = 1.1 Porter Cable hp.

Sears motor rating policy is common knowledge.
You can verify this for yourself with an ampprobe -- lock the
spindle
with
a
vise grip, or wood in circular saw blade, or whatever, and measure
the
current. Multiply by 120, then divide by 746. Wahlah -- their hp
rating.

Now, take same circ saw, wail on a 4x4 until you "feel" that it is
counterproductive to push harder, measure the current, calc as
above.
That
would be the "real" hp rating, proly 1/3 the above locked rotor
current,
mebbe even 1/10.

Do the same for a Porter Cable.

iirc, the FTC or some equivalent org made Sears suposedly stop
this
practice, a few years ago.

Sears is no cute li'l retail bunny. After they were caught in NYS
in
their
auto repair ripoff scam, they were sued in mebbe a dozen other
states,
coast
to coast. google sears auto repair lawsuit.
Unfortly, google dudn't reveal much on their motor rating scam,
but
who
would expect less of Sears?

In other words, you pulled this accusation directly out of your
ass.


No, the other words would more correctly be:
You don't know how to use an ampprobe, and don't have a fukn
clue
as
to
what I'm talking about.

No, that's not the case at all. I think you just completely made up
a
story, or repeated one like a parrot, without ANY hard evidence to
back it up.

Well, dude, I have the hardest evidence you can name: I verified this
for
myself, with.... an ampprobe.
Since you """"claim"""" you know what an ampprobe is, and how to use
it,
then do what I said, and verify my claim for yourself, instead being
an
effing polly purebread net etiquette asshole.

I haven't done this on recent sears stuff (cuz I don't have recent
stuff)
to see if they indeed did clean up their fraudulent act.
I'll bet you will *still* find a fair discrepancy between how Sears
rates
their stuff and how porter cable, bosch, et al rate their stuff, just
not
the outrageous discrepancies there were before.

Now, if you think I'm just flat out lying, or that I don't know how to
use
an ampprobe properly, then again, try it yourself, or go whine to your
shop
teacher.

I *admitted* to not being able to find cites on google, while the auto
fraud
stuff popped right up, but that doesn't mean much, because 1. ahm no
google whiz, and 2. this is a subtler less recognizable issue
media-wise.
If sears was sanctioned by some trade organization, instead of sued by
the
FTC or sundry attorney generals, then you would expect documentation
to
be
harder to find.

Oh, and another thing:

Even if the motor under full load draws a current that corresponds to
a
claimed hp, that STILL doesn't mean that hp is being mechanically
generated -- the motor could be substantially inefficient so that the
delivered hp to the blade is substantially less. It is equivalent to
measuring how much gas a car is burning, and converting that to engine
hp --
unthinkable, with dynamometers readily available to car testers.

It's also roughly similar to the diff between hp at the crankshaft and
rear-wheel hp -- sig losses can occur.

THIS type of thing is almost impossible for a diy-er to
measure/verify,
and
an asshole, such as yerself, COULD arger that mebbe the porter cable
has
LESS *delivered or blade hp* than a sears, because even if the load
current
measurements.are greater for the PC, mebbe it's motor is so
inefficient
that
less "blade hp" is delivered than the sears, even with sears
locked-rotor
current bull****.

While in principle this is true, it is highly highly unlikely, because
disreputable organizations that use locked-rotor current to advertise
hp
surely aren't giving too many hoots regarding their cheap-ass motor
designs,
from china.

Case in point:
I have their former top-of-the-line RAS, and I can't rip 2x4s for more
than
10-15 minutes before the motor goes out on thermal overload. Which
then
takes about 15 minutes to cool down.
****ed as I am about that, I'm nevertheless grateful that the effing
weak-assed motor (multi-hp, of course) HAS a thermal reset button, so
at
least the effing motor doesn't smoke.

YOU have.... how many Sears tools? What brand of ampprobe??

Thanks for this lengthy, rambling, disjointed, nonsensical post
proving you have exactly NOTHING to back up your specious claims.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean: When *I* don't understand
something,
it
indeed appears like rambling. Mebbe have your shop teacher explain it
to
you.


Calling me names, or speculating on my level of expertise, does
exactly nothing to back up your original claim.

And... you've.... checked a sears tool with your ampprobe?


Still waiting for some cites from a reliable source. You calimed that
the government was involved, so that means there should be cites
available. Until you produce those, you are just making **** up.

Well, my ampprobe was pretty reliable. You want me to publish my
results
in
a pee-reviewed journal?

And what I said was, "... the FTC or some equivalent org....".
It's pretty clear the FTC was NOT involved, since I don't think they
even
much got involved with the auto fraud case -- that was state attorney
generals doing their own revenue raising..
It was probably a trade organization. Since you're so effing smart,
mebbe
you can google it up?

My points remain... that you can't follow them is your own problem.
You have proven that you can't follow them, because you haven't
addressed
a
single one of them -- you just bleat about the cite, the cite, the cite.

Do the test yourself.... or have your shop teacher show you how.
Hint: when you ampprobe sumpn, you can't ampprobe the hot and neutral
together, so you need a split-wire adapter.
HTH.

Here's how it works:

me: "Lawn Darts (Jarts) are dangerous and people have been killed by
them"

you: "I don't believe that. I think you just made it up. Please
provide cites to back up your absurd claim."

me: http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/PRHTML97/97122.html


See how easy that is, when you are stating FACTS?

And you believe everything you read?
Dude, learn how to put an ampprobe on a motor, or just stfu.
You obviously aren't willing to think for yourself, or do your own tests.
You prefer to perform fellatio on any figure of authority..

It's just like those assholes ****ty Two and Ricodjour, who fought me
tooth
and nail on the Dual Saw, not understnading the concept of climb cutting.
They wanted cites too, and it just so happened there were about a million
refs to climb cutting using saw blades.

But I need not have had to have provided any effing cites -- it's simple
effing logic, and a little marketing savvy.
Asshole companies mis-market their ****. Asshole consumers, like you,
fall
for that **** hook line and sinker, and THEN defend their purchases.

Heh, if yer going to fellate, you might as well swallow -- brain food,
donchaknow.
Heh, you might as well make everyone happy and fellate the people as
Sears.
Enjoy yer horsepower.

Once again you come back throwing everything but the kictchen sink to
avoid the obvious fact that you completely made something up, and
can't defend it in any meaningful manner.

Friendly advice: Put down the shovel, already!

You are so rabidly stupid, you can no longer distinguish between my not
(currently) being able to provide your oh-so precious cite, and my making
things up.
I did better than provide the cite: I did the experiment. But this is
apparently too much for you to handle.

If you were smart, you'd perhaps quibble about *how* I did the experiment,
if it was a valid test etc but then, well, you're clearly not that smart.
You apparently have no grasp of what hp is, or how it is determined.

You are how Bush got elected -- twice.

You should have put down the shovel before embarassing yourself
further like this.

On Jan 5, 3:36*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

It's just like those assholes ****ty Two and Ricodjour, who fought me tooth
and nail on the Dual Saw, not understnading the concept of climb cutting.
They wanted cites too, and it just so happened there were about a million
refs to climb cutting using saw blades.

I 'understnad' it just fine, Sparky. A poster that actually had
something to say on the matter of climb cuts pointed out the facts.
You, on the other hand, bark and spit. The issue in that other thread
wasn't on whether or not the Dual Saw was a quality tool or not, it
was on you being a goober and having foaming-at-the-mouth opinions on
everything. You need more balance in your life. Get a woman fer
chrissakes.

I have a question while you're on another one of your trademarked out-
of-Ritalin tirades - if you have two blades spinning in opposite
directions, which one is doing the climb cutting, and why are you
ignoring the other one?

R

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:16:56 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
om...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach to the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


How many REAL 3hp electric motors have you seen that run on
120Volts???

Ashton Crusher wrote:

Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc
their hp -- a total scam.

Cites, please.


How many REAL 3hp electric motors have you seen that run on
120Volts???

The only thing I question is the statement that the 3 hp Sears is the same
as the 1 hp Porter Cable. Yes, they do use the locked rotor method, but
they all do. Many companies offer a 3 hp router. Does anyhone think you'd
have a real 3 hp motor in your hands like that?
Look here for hte ratings of some
http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1002158/Routers.aspx

When you get into table saws, the better brands use real numbers. Most are
1.5 to 32 hp, but Sers is something like 4.5 on their little saws.

Notice the high end 3 hp saws
http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1001210/Saws.aspx

Notice that Sears no longer gives HP ratings. This u sed to be 4.5 hp. Now
it is 13A.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...1802000P?mv=rr

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:56:43 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:16:56 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 00:45:01 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
news:c9idnQuBg7fjIN_WnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giganews. com...
My dad passed away in 1998. He loved power tools. Today I was going
through the
attic and found an almost new Craftsman 315.276040 3 HP Electronic Plunge
Router. It was purchased new in 1992 for $215.00 Now I'm going to have to
go
through everything to see what's there.

Now I need to learn how to use it. Question: Is it possible to use a
plunge
router in a router table? I really like the 3HP size of the motor.

In principle yes, altho you might have to modify the base to attach to the
table.
Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc their hp --
a total scam.

Cites, please.


How many REAL 3hp electric motors have you seen that run on
120Volts???

What applies to the Sears router also applies to the Porter Cable.

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 05:58:53 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
The only thing I question is the statement that the 3 hp Sears is the same
as the 1 hp Porter Cable. Yes, they do use the locked rotor method, but
they all do. Many companies offer a 3 hp router. Does anyhone think you'd
have a real 3 hp motor in your hands like that?

Yes, seems to be a marketing trick (the same way that hard disk
manufacturers lie about the capacities of their drives). Once one company
starts doing it, they all do as otherwise their product seems inferior.

Thankfully the power's only part of what makes for a good product, I
suppose, and there are always places like this group where folk can ask
what the best buy for a particular price range is...

Notice that Sears no longer gives HP ratings. This u sed to be 4.5 hp.
Now it is 13A.

I've never quite understood the point of using current draw as a
marketing tool - I mean, 13A might imply a powerful motor, but it might
also mean a **** motor and lots of friction in whatever mechanism the
motor is connected to. It seems pretty meaningless (other than to know
whether it's going to melt your wiring or trip breakers ;-)

cheers

Jules

"Jon Danniken" wrote in news:7qho8sFr5dU2
@mid.individual.net:

Red Green wrote:




Ever see the Tim Allen plunge router episode?

Oh I probably did, that was a long time ago though. G

Jon




Yea a long time ago :-(

IIRC he plunged it on a countertop or something and it just went everywhere
and dragged him with it. Might have been the same episode (well, maybe not)
where he turbo charged the dishwasher in the island and it blew a huge hole
out of the back like a military round.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Ashton Crusher wrote:

Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc
their hp -- a total scam.
Cites, please.

How many REAL 3hp electric motors have you seen that run on
120Volts???

The only thing I question is the statement that the 3 hp Sears is the same
as the 1 hp Porter Cable. Yes, they do use the locked rotor method, but
they all do. Many companies offer a 3 hp router. Does anyhone think you'd
have a real 3 hp motor in your hands like that?
Look here for hte ratings of some
http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1002158/Routers.aspx

When you get into table saws, the better brands use real numbers. Most are
1.5 to 32 hp, but Sers is something like 4.5 on their little saws.

Notice the high end 3 hp saws
http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1001210/Saws.aspx

Notice that Sears no longer gives HP ratings. This u sed to be 4.5 hp. Now
it is 13A.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...1802000P?mv=rr


I recently got a book "Woodworking with the Router", Bill Hylton. He
says "The industry standard is to report peak horsepower on a universal
motor, ... and continuous horsepower on an induction motor, the type
used in stationary power tools." It makes some sense. Induction motors
are more often used for long periods at their rated HP. Universal motors
(brush type) often are used for very short periods. You can use the peak
HP of a drill for a short time. I believe he is talking about HP that is
measured as HP, not as derived from current.

--
bud--

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
Ashton Crusher wrote:

Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc
their hp -- a total scam.

Cites, please.


How many REAL 3hp electric motors have you seen that run on
120Volts???

The only thing I question is the statement that the 3 hp Sears is the same
as the 1 hp Porter Cable.

Well, I corrected that to 1.1 porter cable hps....

But seriously, that part was "said for effect", altho it could might well be
true.... I'll post more on this later.
I can't imagine a responsible company using the locked-rotor method, tho.

But, brush motors can get very powerful in small sizes. iirc, you have
these little bitty table top race cars with motors the size of a AAA cell,
that are a good fraction -- perhaps the better fraction -- of a hp! Due to
supermagnets.

Whether you would WANT a true 3 hp in a hand-held router -- or if yer 15 A
breaker could take it -- is another story.

However, be careful -- that ignerint asshole Salty Dog is going to ask you
for cite after cite, and accuse you of making all this up if you can't
deliver.
--
EA.


Yes, they do use the locked rotor method, but
they all do. Many companies offer a 3 hp router. Does anyhone think
you'd have a real 3 hp motor in your hands like that?
Look here for hte ratings of some
http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1002158/Routers.aspx

When you get into table saws, the better brands use real numbers. Most
are 1.5 to 32 hp, but Sers is something like 4.5 on their little saws.

Notice the high end 3 hp saws
http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1001210/Saws.aspx

Notice that Sears no longer gives HP ratings. This u sed to be 4.5 hp.
Now it is 13A.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...1802000P?mv=rr

"bud--" wrote in message
.. .
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Ashton Crusher wrote:

Note, tho, that 3 Sears HP = 1 Porter Cable HP. No foolin....
Sears used locked-rotor current (stalled motor current) to calc
their hp -- a total scam.
Cites, please.

How many REAL 3hp electric motors have you seen that run on
120Volts???

The only thing I question is the statement that the 3 hp Sears is the
same as the 1 hp Porter Cable. Yes, they do use the locked rotor method,
but they all do. Many companies offer a 3 hp router. Does anyhone think
you'd have a real 3 hp motor in your hands like that?
Look here for hte ratings of some
http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1002158/Routers.aspx

When you get into table saws, the better brands use real numbers. Most
are 1.5 to 32 hp, but Sers is something like 4.5 on their little saws.

Notice the high end 3 hp saws
http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1001210/Saws.aspx

Notice that Sears no longer gives HP ratings. This u sed to be 4.5 hp.
Now it is 13A.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...1802000P?mv=rr


I recently got a book "Woodworking with the Router", Bill Hylton. He says
"The industry standard is to report peak horsepower on a universal motor,
... and continuous horsepower on an induction motor, the type used in
stationary power tools." It makes some sense. Induction motors are more
often used for long periods at their rated HP. Universal motors (brush
type) often are used for very short periods. You can use the peak HP of a
drill for a short time. I believe he is talking about HP that is measured
as HP, not as derived from current.

Good points.
--
EA


--
bud--