Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

Danimal wrote:
Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for
my new garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete.
This is an argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not
want opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site
or show me an engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly
appreciated. I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures
24'across x 26
long, the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x
26 long room upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that
this is exactly what I want, the only difference was I wanted my
garage to be 26' x 26' He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough
and knew exactly
what I wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me
the bigger you go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be
smaller. I could almost believe this but the gambrel truss is not
even the same design even though it has 2x 6 material where as my
friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the question Can it be possibel to
have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings top and bottom floors using
a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide garge. I know this
contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof that he is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

Mistake number one, you did not review the plans.

Mistake number two, relying on someone else's project to base your decisions
on.

Mistake number three, not providing written specifications on what you want
and having the contractor committ to them.

Cure number one: Contact the truss maker (if the manufacturer is not marked
on the trusses, get the name from your contractor) to see what their
engineers can make according to their designs.

Cure number two: Stop all work and correct the above mistakes before
proceeding any further.

"Danimal" wrote in
:

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my
new garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This
is an argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not
want opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or
show me an engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly
appreciated. I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures
24'across x 26 long, the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows
a 15' wide x 26 long room upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the
contractor that this is exactly what I want, the only difference was I
wanted my garage to be 26' x 26' He viewed the garage and said that he
seen enough and knew exactly what I wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me
the bigger you go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be
smaller. I could almost believe this but the gambrel truss is not even
the same design even though it has 2x 6 material where as my friends
had only 2x 4's . Here's the question Can it be possibel to have a
15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings top and bottom floors using a
Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide garge. I know this contractor
is waltzing me around and I need proof that he is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal




please I do not
want opinions . I need solid proof,

Only opinions and experiences here. Even a bonified expert is not proof
if it comes from the Internet.

so if you can send me to a site or
show me an engineered diagram

Every job is different and that's why plans must be approved by a PE
before you can get a permit.

You need to go to a PE for "proof". You should already have that because
your plan has the stamp of a Professional Engineer. That's how you got
the building permit.

In article ,
"Danimal" wrote:

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

I think (and this is expert advice, not my opinion) that you should
direct your questions to the architect that designed your garage. Yeah,
oops.

In article ,
"Danimal" wrote:

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

I think (and this is expert advice, not my opinion) that you should
direct your questions to the architect that designed your garage. Yeah,
oops.

Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest hard
working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known better when
I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this group to
alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.




"Danimal" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me
an engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger
you go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could
almost believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even
though it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's
the question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft
ceilings top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26'
wide garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof
that he is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

On Dec 21, 10:38*pm, "Danimal" wrote:
Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest hard
working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known better when
I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this group to
alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.

"Danimal" wrote in message

...

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me
an engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger
you go with the *garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could
almost believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even
though it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's
the question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft
ceilings top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26'
wide garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof
that he is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You mean, thanks after the fact. You asked for help after you ****ed
up your garage. Enjoy it.

R

"Danimal" wrote in
:

Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest
hard working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known
better when I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this
group to alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.



Too bad you don't own one. You could drill holes in your head for ****ing
up your garage.

I've located your contractor online: http://tinyurl.com/yfs3dpl



"Danimal" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for
my new garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete.
This is an argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not
want opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site
or show me an engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly
appreciated. I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures
24'across x 26 long, the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows
a 15' wide x 26 long room upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the
contractor that this is exactly what I want, the only difference was
I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26' He viewed the garage and said that
he seen enough and knew exactly what I wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me
the bigger you go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be
smaller. I could almost believe this but the gambrel truss is not
even the same design even though it has 2x 6 material where as my
friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the question Can it be possibel to
have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings top and bottom floors using
a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide garge. I know this
contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof that he is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

"Danimal" wrote in message
...
Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest hard
working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known better
when I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this group
to alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.


Let's see...You hired a hack who ****ed up your slab and you didn't learn
your lesson and hired another hack to **** up the rest of it THEN you come
crying here for help after it is to late and we are the ignorant assholes
for not having the magic answers to all your **** ups ??? **** you...I hope
the hack screws it up good ....Don't go away mad , JUST GO AWAY...

In article ,
"Danimal" wrote:

Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest hard
working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known better when
I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this group to
alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.




You're very welcome. We're here to help, and we appreciate you stopping
by. It's been a most pleasant visit for us all. Please come again,
anytime.

Danimal wrote:
Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest hard
working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known better when
I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this group to
alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.

Damn. I didn't have time to get your email address so I could send you
the blueprints/architectural drawings for my attic trusses. The ones
that are sized exactly like they were on the paper I signed. You did
sign something first that gave all the specs on the trusses didn't you?
Oh my, you didn't? So who's fault is it?




"Danimal" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me
an engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger
you go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could
almost believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even
though it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's
the question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft
ceilings top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26'
wide garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof
that he is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

On Dec 21, 5:31*pm, "Danimal" wrote:
Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger you
go with the *garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort of
spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to be a
big production, just a page or two with the highlights like dimensions
in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even with it's
going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in the
trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the whole
job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it from
here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those trusses on
craig's list. You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof in
my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and with a
10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far above
grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the way to
the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the space
cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&l=ccd438df1e

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off the
face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid him
for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some grading
finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have the equipment
for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without a rollback it's
expensive to rent equipment.

Danimal wrote:
Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest
hard working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known
better when I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this
group to alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.

Sorry you didn't like the answer. Only a licenced engineer can provide
specific information and they don't come free. However the truss
manufacturer can provide you with a lot of answers and probably close to
free. My advice is based on over 50 years of construction experience and is
worth a lot more than you paid for it.

Glad you left the newsgroup earlier and probably you should stay away.

On Dec 22, 11:49*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Dec 21, 5:31*pm, "Danimal" wrote:





Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger you
go with the *garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You "can" do anything. *As long as it's engineered correctly. *I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. *Did you have any sort of
spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? *Doesn't have to be a
big production, just a page or two with the highlights like dimensions
in it. *If not *then you might be in a tight spot. *Even with it's
going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in the
trusses. *He might decide it's better to just walk away from the whole
job. *So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it from
here. *Another option might be to find someone to buy those trusses on
craig's list. *You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof in
my garage project. *The downside is that they are 22" tall and with a
10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far above
grade. *The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the way to
the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the space
cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&l=ccd438df1e

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. *My guy has dropped off the
face of the earth for 2 months now. *Fortunately I've only paid him
for work done, not work "to be done". *But I still need some grading
finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have the equipment
for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. *Without a rollback it's
expensive to rent equipment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's what I did for specs. It covers the basics.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/

EXT, You sir have some Gaul and nerve
You are a ****ing stuck up prick and nothing less. I don't need your lessons
one , two or ****ing three. I asked this group for simple specifics like
proof or a web site concerning roof trusses that's all. Your 50 years of
experience is worthless because you lack much in the department of simple
compassion to help or give free advice to those who seek it. You obviously
can't help yourself because you have better than 50 years experience of
being a pedantic asshole which outshines your ability to give simple advice
on how to hold a ****ing 16 oz claw hammer or nail two boards together.
This advice to you sir holds true because, unknown to you, your over-sized
ego has long since taken over without your knowledge and too bad for you,
over shadows any credibility you may have had. The only thing you have left
is the lack lustre ability to blather on about your own self importance. You
couldn't offer advice to a five dollar whore on how to rid herself of the
body crabs.
You take so much joy in masturbating to the sound of you own stupidity,
that you still haven't figured out why your cock turns orange every time to
eat cheesies.




"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
Danimal wrote:
Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest
hard working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known
better when I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this
group to alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.

Sorry you didn't like the answer. Only a licenced engineer can provide
specific information and they don't come free. However the truss
manufacturer can provide you with a lot of answers and probably close to
free. My advice is based on over 50 years of construction experience and
is worth a lot more than you paid for it.

Glad you left the newsgroup earlier and probably you should stay away.

thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a
gambrel roof truss and loft space.


"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 11:49 am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Dec 21, 5:31 pm, "Danimal" wrote:





Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my
new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show
me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26
long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long
room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what
I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger
you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even
though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft
ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof
that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort of
spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to be a
big production, just a page or two with the highlights like dimensions
in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even with it's
going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in the
trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the whole
job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it from
here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those trusses on
craig's list. You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof in
my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and with a
10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far above
grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the way to
the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the space
cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&l=ccd438df1e

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off the
face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid him
for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some grading
finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have the equipment
for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without a rollback it's
expensive to rent equipment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's what I did for specs. It covers the basics.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/

In article ,
"Danimal" wrote:

EXT, You sir have some Gaul and nerve
You are a ****ing stuck up prick and nothing less. I don't need your lessons
one , two or ****ing three. I asked this group for simple specifics like
proof or a web site concerning roof trusses that's all. Your 50 years of
experience is worthless because you lack much in the department of simple
compassion to help or give free advice to those who seek it. You obviously
can't help yourself because you have better than 50 years experience of
being a pedantic asshole which outshines your ability to give simple advice
on how to hold a ****ing 16 oz claw hammer or nail two boards together.
This advice to you sir holds true because, unknown to you, your over-sized
ego has long since taken over without your knowledge and too bad for you,
over shadows any credibility you may have had. The only thing you have left
is the lack lustre ability to blather on about your own self importance. You
couldn't offer advice to a five dollar whore on how to rid herself of the
body crabs.
You take so much joy in masturbating to the sound of you own stupidity,
that you still haven't figured out why your cock turns orange every time to
eat cheesies.



Um, you misspelled "gall," and it shouldn't be capitalized since it's
not the first word of the sentence. Oh, and you top-posted. Other than
that, you seem to be in good shape. Well, not counting the fact that
your garage is quickly turning into a project from hell. I'm sure that's
not related to your personality, though, so please carry on.

On Dec 23, 2:26*am, "Danimal" wrote:
thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a
gambrel roof truss and loft space.

Why didn't you say so? This should help clarify things for you:
http://tinyurl.com/y8g934y

R

thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a
gambrel roof truss and loft space.

Why didn't you say so? This should help clarify things for you:
http://tinyurl.com/y8g934y



*Rico thanks for that link. I will probably use it myself sometime. I'm
just wondering if the OP even bothered with permits and inspections and
other pesky things like consulting an architect.

In this case I think the punishment may fit the crime.

"Danimal" wrote in message
...
EXT, You sir have some Gaul and nerve
You are a ****ing stuck up prick and nothing less. I don't need your
lessons one , two or ****ing three. I asked this group for simple
specifics like proof or a web site concerning roof trusses that's all.
Your 50 years of experience is worthless because you lack much in the
department of simple compassion to help or give free advice to those who
seek it. You obviously can't help yourself because you have better than 50
years experience of being a pedantic asshole which outshines your ability
to give simple advice on how to hold a ****ing 16 oz claw hammer or nail
two boards together. This advice to you sir holds true because, unknown to
you, your over-sized ego has long since taken over without your knowledge
and too bad for you, over shadows any credibility you may have had. The
only thing you have left is the lack lustre ability to blather on about
your own self importance. You couldn't offer advice to a five dollar whore
on how to rid herself of the body crabs.
You take so much joy in masturbating to the sound of you own stupidity,
that you still haven't figured out why your cock turns orange every time
to eat cheesies.


I thought you were going away...Go ALREADY...what an assclown....



"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
Danimal wrote:
Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest
hard working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known
better when I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this
group to alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.

Sorry you didn't like the answer. Only a licenced engineer can provide
specific information and they don't come free. However the truss
manufacturer can provide you with a lot of answers and probably close to
free. My advice is based on over 50 years of construction experience and
is worth a lot more than you paid for it.

Glad you left the newsgroup earlier and probably you should stay away.

In article ,
"John Grabowski" wrote:

I'm
just wondering if the OP even bothered with permits and inspections and
other pesky things like consulting an architect.

You don't really wonder that, do you John? Normally I don't like to make
assumptions based on reading between the lines, but in this case ...

On Dec 23, 2:26*am, "Danimal" wrote:
thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a
gambrel roof truss and loft space.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Dec 22, 11:49 am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Dec 21, 5:31 pm, "Danimal" wrote:

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my
new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show
me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26
long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long
room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what
I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger
you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even
though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft
ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof
that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort of
spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to be a
big production, just a page or two with the highlights like dimensions
in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even with it's
going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in the
trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the whole
job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it from
here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those trusses on
craig's list. You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof in
my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and with a
10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far above
grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the way to
the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the space
cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&l=ccd438df1e

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off the
face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid him
for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some grading
finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have the equipment
for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without a rollback it's
expensive to rent equipment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's what I did for specs. *It covers the basics.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is not some hard rule about the span of your upper floor. It's
whatever an engineer designs and certifies for the trusses. No matter
what arrangement you have with the guy building it, he went to a truss
manufacturer for the trusses. They're the ones on the hook for
certifying that the trusses meet whatever dead and live loads are
required. They probably had a number of gambrel trusses engineered up
already. Can't say if they had one that had a wider upper story space
or not. The company name is probably on the trusses or on some
paperwork with the trusses. You could call them and ask if they have
a collection of gambrel truss designs ready to go. Bottom line you
could have a wider 2nd story floor. Might have been cheaper for the
guy to get these with 12' space instead of an 15' space. Or maybe he
just screwed up.

Doesn't change where you are. If the trusses are sitting on your lot
then you have limited choices.

If you have an agreement with the builder that covers the basic specs
including a 15' wide 2nd story, and you both signed it, and you have
not paid him or the truss company then you could tell him to make it
right or pack up and leave.

If you have already given him money that changes things a lot. While
you might be in the right legally doing something about it is a whole
nother kettle of fish. Getting something out of a small contractor
via small claims court is a total pain in the ass. After considerable
effort you may get a judgement against him. But that just means you
won in court. You have to follow up with trying to collect it. Often
that is just as much if not more work than getting the judgement.

Where do you stand with this guy? Got any sort of agreement in
writing? Have you paid him anything yet? How much other work has he
done? You mentioned the concrete problems, is that fixed? Or is this
guy on the hook to jackhammer that out still? Concrete company
admitting fault?

This will really get some of your naysayers riled I suspect, but if
you want to go totally off the reservation you might be able to modify
the trusses you have to get the extra 3'. But only if you're building
without getting inspections. I built some roof trusses from scratch
for an addition once. I laid them out on the driveway and used
squares of osb, construction adhesive, and deck screws in place of the
metal plates. They've been up 10 years now. But these were for a
roof, not a floor. With a floor the loads are a whole lot bigger.
That partly why I don't like engineered trusses that include a floor.

I'm just wondering if the OP even bothered with permits and inspections
and other pesky things like consulting an architect.


You don't really wonder that, do you John? Normally I don't like to make
assumptions based on reading between the lines, but in this case ...


*I think that you are right Smitty, but it would be nice to have all of the
facts so that we can pass this information on to the next generation.

jamesgangnc wrote in
:

On Dec 23, 2:26*am, "Danimal" wrote:
thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of
a gambrel roof truss and loft space.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message


... On Dec 22, 11:49 am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Dec 21, 5:31 pm, "Danimal"
wrote:

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured
for m
y
new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This
is a
n
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do
not w
ant
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or
sho
w
me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x
26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26
long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is
exac
tly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26'
x 2
6'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew
exactly wh
at
I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the
big
ger
you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could
almo
st
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design
even though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's
the question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8'
ft ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26'
wid
e
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need
proof that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort
of spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to
be a big production, just a page or two with the highlights like
dimensions in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even
with it's going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in
the trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the
whole job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it
from here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those
trusses on craig's list. You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof
in my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and
with a 10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far
above grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the
way to the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the
space cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...66189&l=ccd438
df1e

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off
the face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid
him for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some
grading finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have
the equipment for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without
a rollback it's expensive to rent equipment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's what I did for specs. *It covers the basics.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is not some hard rule about the span of your upper floor. It's
whatever an engineer designs and certifies for the trusses. No matter
what arrangement you have with the guy building it, he went to a truss
manufacturer for the trusses. They're the ones on the hook for
certifying that the trusses meet whatever dead and live loads are
required.

It's been a couple of decades but IIRC I received a truss spec with a
PE's stamp when I ordered the trusses. I had to present that along with
the basic plan to get the permit.

They probably had a number of gambrel trusses engineered up
already. Can't say if they had one that had a wider upper story space
or not. The company name is probably on the trusses or on some
paperwork with the trusses. You could call them and ask if they have
a collection of gambrel truss designs ready to go. Bottom line you
could have a wider 2nd story floor. Might have been cheaper for the
guy to get these with 12' space instead of an 15' space. Or maybe he
just screwed up.

Doesn't change where you are. If the trusses are sitting on your lot
then you have limited choices.

If you have an agreement with the builder that covers the basic specs
including a 15' wide 2nd story, and you both signed it, and you have
not paid him or the truss company then you could tell him to make it
right or pack up and leave.

If you have already given him money that changes things a lot. While
you might be in the right legally doing something about it is a whole
nother kettle of fish. Getting something out of a small contractor
via small claims court is a total pain in the ass. After considerable
effort you may get a judgement against him. But that just means you
won in court. You have to follow up with trying to collect it. Often
that is just as much if not more work than getting the judgement.

Where do you stand with this guy? Got any sort of agreement in
writing? Have you paid him anything yet? How much other work has he
done? You mentioned the concrete problems, is that fixed? Or is this
guy on the hook to jackhammer that out still? Concrete company
admitting fault?

This will really get some of your naysayers riled I suspect, but if
you want to go totally off the reservation you might be able to modify
the trusses you have to get the extra 3'. But only if you're building
without getting inspections. I built some roof trusses from scratch
for an addition once. I laid them out on the driveway and used
squares of osb, construction adhesive, and deck screws in place of the
metal plates. They've been up 10 years now. But these were for a
roof, not a floor. With a floor the loads are a whole lot bigger.
That partly why I don't like engineered trusses that include a floor.

On Dec 23, 2:58*pm, Red Green wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote :





On Dec 23, 2:26*am, "Danimal" wrote:
thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of
a gambrel roof truss and loft space.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message


... On Dec 22, 11:49 am, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Dec 21, 5:31 pm, "Danimal"
wrote:

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured
for m
y
new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This
is a
n
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do
not w
ant
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or
sho
w
me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x
26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26
long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is
exac
tly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26'
x 2
6'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew
exactly wh
at
I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the
big
ger
you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could
almo
st
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design
even though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's
the question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8'
ft ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26'
wid
e
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need
proof that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort
of spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to
be a big production, just a page or two with the highlights like
dimensions in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even
with it's going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in
the trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the
whole job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it
from here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those
trusses on craig's list. You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof
in my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and
with a 10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far
above grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the
way to the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the
space cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...66189&l=ccd438
df1e

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off
the face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid
him for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some
grading finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have
the equipment for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without
a rollback it's expensive to rent equipment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's what I did for specs. *It covers the basics.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is not some hard rule about the span of your upper floor. *It's
whatever an engineer designs and certifies for the trusses. *No matter
what arrangement you have with the guy building it, he went to a truss
manufacturer for the trusses. *They're the ones on the hook for
certifying that the trusses meet whatever dead and live loads are
required.

It's been a couple of decades but IIRC I received a truss spec with a
PE's stamp when I ordered the trusses. I had to present that along with
the basic plan to get the permit.



*They probably had a number of gambrel trusses engineered up
already. *Can't say if they had one that had a wider upper story space
or not. *The company name is probably on the trusses or on some
paperwork with the trusses. *You could call them and ask if they have
a collection of gambrel truss designs ready to go. *Bottom line you
could have a wider 2nd story floor. *Might have been cheaper for the
guy to get these with 12' space instead of an 15' space. *Or maybe he
just screwed up.

Doesn't change where you are. *If the trusses are sitting on your lot
then you have limited choices.

If you have an agreement with the builder that covers the basic specs
including a 15' wide 2nd story, and you both signed it, and you have
not paid him or the truss company then you could tell him to make it
right or pack up and leave.

If you have already given him money that changes things a lot. *While
you might be in the right legally doing something about it is a whole
nother kettle of fish. *Getting something out of a small contractor
via small claims court is a total pain in the ass. *After considerable
effort you may get a judgement against him. *But that just means you
won in court. You have to follow up with trying to collect it. *Often
that is just as much if not more work than getting the judgement.

Where do you stand with this guy? *Got any sort of agreement in
writing? *Have you paid him anything yet? *How much other work has he
done? *You mentioned the concrete problems, is that fixed? *Or is this
guy on the hook to jackhammer that out still? *Concrete company
admitting fault?

This will really get some of your naysayers riled I suspect, but if
you want to go totally off the reservation you might be able to modify
the trusses you have to get the extra 3'. *But only if you're building
without getting inspections. *I built some roof trusses from scratch
for an addition once. *I laid them out on the driveway and used
squares of osb, construction adhesive, and deck screws in place of the
metal plates. *They've been up 10 years now. *But these were for a
roof, not a floor. *With a floor the loads are a whole lot bigger.
That partly why I don't like engineered trusses that include a floor.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's not the case everywhere. Some places issue permits for plans
that include manufactured joists or trusses without a stamp. I guess
the inspector checks them on framing inspection.

Thanks James for the thought out sensible answer and mutual respect.
I have not paid a cent for anything and nor will I until the job is
completed to my satisfaction. Yes I have all the permits in place and no I
did not hire an architect to draw up plans for a simple 26' x26' square box
with a Gambrel roof.
I took this guy who was pretty cocksure of himself ( much like some of the
ignoramuses who post her) that he could give me exactly as I requested. He
went off to the truss company not taking the pitch or roof angle into
consideration and had them build the trusses without telling them to allow
for maximum loft space or checking back with me to see if I would be
satisfied with the given loft space . When the trusses were delivered to my
lot, I voiced my concern to this guy who told me based on span and size of
the lumber used, I was getting maximum allowable loft space. All I wanted
was a credible journey man carpenter and poster from this group to point me
in the right direction. Instead I had a pack of Hyenas scoff and tell me
that I deserved what I got without knowing anything.
Since I posted last, I have found and printed off much information on my own
to show and prove the incompetence of the contractor who is now
back-peddling and trying to figure out a way to suck up the cost of these
store bought trusses that are of no use to me what-so-ever.
Since this man was recommended by the contractor whom I know from previous
jobs done well and who will be paving my driveway in the spring, I have
since gotten a legal binding contract drawn up for all work listed to
protect my future investments, but I was left with no choice to do. One time
you could honour a man at his word and handshake alone, such was not the
case here. Also on that note, a friend who happens to be a registered
government building inspector, has volunteered his services for free.

I learned a few lessons for this week, thanks to those who tried to offer
some real assistance and a special alt.home.repairs thanks, goes out to the
other idiots who post here who did not help at all but gave me enough
insight to remind me to take care of myself and rely less on others for
anything including advice.



"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Dec 23, 2:26 am, "Danimal" wrote:
thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a
gambrel roof truss and loft space.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Dec 22, 11:49 am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Dec 21, 5:31 pm, "Danimal" wrote:

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my
new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not
want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show
me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26
long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long
room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is
exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x
26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly
what
I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the
bigger
you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could
almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even
though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft
ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof
that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort of
spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to be a
big production, just a page or two with the highlights like dimensions
in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even with it's
going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in the
trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the whole
job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it from
here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those trusses on
craig's list. You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof in
my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and with a
10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far above
grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the way to
the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the space
cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&l=ccd438df1e

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off the
face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid him
for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some grading
finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have the equipment
for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without a rollback it's
expensive to rent equipment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's what I did for specs. It covers the basics.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is not some hard rule about the span of your upper floor. It's
whatever an engineer designs and certifies for the trusses. No matter
what arrangement you have with the guy building it, he went to a truss
manufacturer for the trusses. They're the ones on the hook for
certifying that the trusses meet whatever dead and live loads are
required. They probably had a number of gambrel trusses engineered up
already. Can't say if they had one that had a wider upper story space
or not. The company name is probably on the trusses or on some
paperwork with the trusses. You could call them and ask if they have
a collection of gambrel truss designs ready to go. Bottom line you
could have a wider 2nd story floor. Might have been cheaper for the
guy to get these with 12' space instead of an 15' space. Or maybe he
just screwed up.

Doesn't change where you are. If the trusses are sitting on your lot
then you have limited choices.

If you have an agreement with the builder that covers the basic specs
including a 15' wide 2nd story, and you both signed it, and you have
not paid him or the truss company then you could tell him to make it
right or pack up and leave.

If you have already given him money that changes things a lot. While
you might be in the right legally doing something about it is a whole
nother kettle of fish. Getting something out of a small contractor
via small claims court is a total pain in the ass. After considerable
effort you may get a judgement against him. But that just means you
won in court. You have to follow up with trying to collect it. Often
that is just as much if not more work than getting the judgement.

Where do you stand with this guy? Got any sort of agreement in
writing? Have you paid him anything yet? How much other work has he
done? You mentioned the concrete problems, is that fixed? Or is this
guy on the hook to jackhammer that out still? Concrete company
admitting fault?

This will really get some of your naysayers riled I suspect, but if
you want to go totally off the reservation you might be able to modify
the trusses you have to get the extra 3'. But only if you're building
without getting inspections. I built some roof trusses from scratch
for an addition once. I laid them out on the driveway and used
squares of osb, construction adhesive, and deck screws in place of the
metal plates. They've been up 10 years now. But these were for a
roof, not a floor. With a floor the loads are a whole lot bigger.
That partly why I don't like engineered trusses that include a floor.

um thats original, kiss my ass and see if thats spelled right mental midget.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Danimal" wrote:

EXT, You sir have some Gaul and nerve
You are a ****ing stuck up prick and nothing less. I don't need your
lessons
one , two or ****ing three. I asked this group for simple specifics like
proof or a web site concerning roof trusses that's all. Your 50 years of
experience is worthless because you lack much in the department of simple
compassion to help or give free advice to those who seek it. You
obviously
can't help yourself because you have better than 50 years experience of
being a pedantic asshole which outshines your ability to give simple
advice
on how to hold a ****ing 16 oz claw hammer or nail two boards together.
This advice to you sir holds true because, unknown to you, your
over-sized
ego has long since taken over without your knowledge and too bad for you,
over shadows any credibility you may have had. The only thing you have
left
is the lack lustre ability to blather on about your own self importance.
You
couldn't offer advice to a five dollar whore on how to rid herself of the
body crabs.
You take so much joy in masturbating to the sound of you own stupidity,
that you still haven't figured out why your cock turns orange every time
to
eat cheesies.



Um, you misspelled "gall," and it shouldn't be capitalized since it's
not the first word of the sentence. Oh, and you top-posted. Other than
that, you seem to be in good shape. Well, not counting the fact that
your garage is quickly turning into a project from hell. I'm sure that's
not related to your personality, though, so please carry on.

On Dec 21, 4:31*pm, "Danimal" wrote:
Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger you
go with the *garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

A diagram will be 150$ in advance, your concrete needs to be removed
and replaced before you screw up anything else as you watch your
trusses rot in the mud this winter, Merry Christmas, come back soon.

On Dec 23, 9:11*am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a
gambrel roof truss and loft space.

Why didn't you say so? *This should help clarify things for you:http://tinyurl.com/y8g934y

*Rico thanks for that link. *I will probably use it myself sometime. *I'm
just wondering if the OP even bothered with permits and inspections and
other pesky things like consulting an architect.

In this case I think the punishment may fit the crime.

Of course he didn't do his homework first - he's doing it now, after
the fact. But, hell, he has a friend that is a _registered_
governement building inspector. Things are really looking rosy now!

R

In article ,
"Danimal" wrote:

Instead I had a pack of Hyenas scoff and tell me
that I deserved what I got without knowing anything.

That's because you've been acting like the world's most despicable
asshole. You don't walk into a room and say **** you to everyone and
then expect them to help you, if you're not psychotic, which you
apparently are. Likely you're treating the concrete guy and the framer
like ****, and they're shafting you for it. You're a ****ing baby, and
your anger is way the **** out of control, dude.

Danimal wrote:
um thats original, kiss my ass and see if thats spelled right mental
midget.

Yes but you left out the apostrophe in "that's". Sould hace capatalized the
"u" in "um" too.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article ,
"Danimal" wrote:

Instead I had a pack of Hyenas scoff and tell me
that I deserved what I got without knowing anything.

That's because you've been acting like the world's most despicable
asshole. You don't walk into a room and say **** you to everyone and
then expect them to help you, if you're not psychotic, which you
apparently are. Likely you're treating the concrete guy and the framer
like ****, and they're shafting you for it. You're a ****ing baby, and
your anger is way the **** out of control, dude.



Very professional reply until you went out of your way insulting below the
belt with "dude". Shame on you. Everything else fine!

Danimal wrote:
EXT, You sir have some Gaul and nerve

snipped angry gibberish

I thought you left?

"Danimal" wrote in message
...
EXT, You sir have some Gaul and nerve
You are a ****ing stuck up prick and nothing less. I don't need your
lessons one , two or ****ing three. I asked this group for simple
specifics like proof or a web site concerning roof trusses that's all.
Your 50 years of experience is worthless because you lack much in the
department of simple compassion to help or give free advice to those who
seek it. You obviously can't help yourself because you have better than 50
years experience of being a pedantic asshole which outshines your ability
to give simple advice on how to hold a ****ing 16 oz claw hammer or nail
two boards together. This advice to you sir holds true because, unknown to
you, your over-sized ego has long since taken over without your knowledge
and too bad for you, over shadows any credibility you may have had. The
only thing you have left is the lack lustre ability to blather on about
your own self importance. You couldn't offer advice to a five dollar whore
on how to rid herself of the body crabs.
You take so much joy in masturbating to the sound of you own stupidity,
that you still haven't figured out why your cock turns orange every time
to eat cheesies.




"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
Danimal wrote:
Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest
hard working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known
better when I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this
group to alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.

Sorry you didn't like the answer. Only a licenced engineer can provide
specific information and they don't come free. However the truss
manufacturer can provide you with a lot of answers and probably close to
free. My advice is based on over 50 years of construction experience and
is worth a lot more than you paid for it.

Glad you left the newsgroup earlier and probably you should stay away.


Don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out! You got good advice
here, just too dumb to take it.

On Dec 23, 8:51*pm, "Al" wrote:
"Danimal" wrote in message

...

EXT, You sir have some Gaul and nerve
You are a ****ing stuck up prick and nothing less. I don't need your
lessons one , two or ****ing three. I asked this group for simple
specifics like proof or a web site concerning roof trusses that's all.
Your 50 years of experience is worthless because you lack much in the
department of simple compassion to help or give free advice to those who
seek it. You obviously can't help yourself because you have better than 50
years experience of being a pedantic asshole which outshines your ability
to give simple advice on how to hold a ****ing 16 oz claw hammer or nail
two boards together. This advice to you sir holds true because, unknown to
you, your over-sized ego has long since taken over without your knowledge
and too bad for you, over shadows any credibility you may have had. The
only thing you have left is the lack lustre ability to blather on about
your own self importance. You couldn't offer advice to a five dollar whore
on how to rid herself of the body crabs.
You take so much joy in masturbating to the sound of you own stupidity,
that you still haven't figured out why your cock turns orange every time
to eat cheesies.

"EXT" wrote in message
tanews.com...
Danimal wrote:
Many thanks you ignorant assholes for the crappy advice and your vast
extensive knowledge on gambrel, barn style roof trusses. Not a honest
hard working callused hand among the lot of you. I should have known
better when I left this group several years ago.
You brilliant minds should get together and change the name of this
group to alt.asktheidiot.whothinks
he'sacarpenter.becauseheownsacordless.blackanddeck erdrill.

Sorry you didn't like the answer. Only a licenced engineer can provide
specific information and they don't come free. However the truss
manufacturer can provide you with a lot of answers and probably close to
free. My advice is based on over 50 years of construction experience and
is worth a lot more than you paid for it.

Glad you left the newsgroup earlier and probably you should stay away.

Don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out! You got good advice
here, just too dumb to take it.

Yeah, but he's got a registered _government_ building inspector now -
for free. What could possibly go wrong...? {rolling eyes}

R

Ah, little do you know arse wipe, the cement finisher who was non partisan
in the whole affair was looking out for my best interest by informing me
that the cement company was screwing me with a bad slurry that out lived its
watered down life.. He done this privately by not telling the contractor
first to look out for me.
"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Danimal" wrote:

Instead I had a pack of Hyenas scoff and tell me
that I deserved what I got without knowing anything.

That's because you've been acting like the world's most despicable
asshole. You don't walk into a room and say **** you to everyone and
then expect them to help you, if you're not psychotic, which you
apparently are. Likely you're treating the concrete guy and the framer
like ****, and they're shafting you for it. You're a ****ing baby, and
your anger is way the **** out of control, dude.

On Dec 23, 3:29*pm, "Danimal" wrote:
Thanks James for the thought out sensible answer and mutual respect.
I have not paid a cent for anything and nor will I until the job is
completed to my satisfaction. Yes I have all the permits in place and no I
did not hire an architect to draw up plans for a simple 26' x26' square box
with a Gambrel roof.
I took this guy who was pretty cocksure of himself ( much like some of the
ignoramuses who post her) that he could give me exactly as I requested. He
went off to the truss company not taking the pitch or roof angle into
consideration and had them build the trusses without telling them to allow
for maximum loft space or checking back with me to see if I would be
satisfied with the given loft space . When the trusses were delivered to my
lot, I voiced my concern to this guy who told me based on span and size of
the lumber used, I was getting maximum allowable loft space. All I wanted
was a credible journey man carpenter and poster from this group to point me
in the right direction. Instead I had a pack of Hyenas scoff and tell me
that I deserved what I got without knowing anything.
Since I posted last, I have found and printed off much information on my own
to show and prove *the incompetence of the contractor who is now
back-peddling and trying to figure out a way to suck up the cost of these
store bought trusses that are of no use to me what-so-ever.
Since this man was recommended by the contractor whom I know from previous
jobs done well *and who will be paving my driveway in the spring, I have
since gotten a legal binding contract drawn up for all work listed to
protect my future investments, but I was left with no choice to do. One time
you could honour a man at his word and handshake alone, such was not the
case here. Also on that note, a friend who happens to be a registered
government building inspector, has volunteered his services for free.

I learned a few lessons for this week, thanks to those who tried to offer
some real assistance and a special alt.home.repairs thanks, *goes out to the
other idiots who post here who did not help at all but gave me enough
insight to remind me to take care of myself and rely less on others for
anything including advice.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Dec 23, 2:26 am, "Danimal" wrote:





thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a
gambrel roof truss and loft space.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

....
On Dec 22, 11:49 am, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Dec 21, 5:31 pm, "Danimal" wrote:

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my
new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not
want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show
me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26
long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long
room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is
exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x
26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly
what
I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the
bigger
you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could
almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even
though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft
ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof
that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort of
spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to be a
big production, just a page or two with the highlights like dimensions
in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even with it's
going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in the
trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the whole
job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it from
here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those trusses on
craig's list. You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof in
my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and with a
10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far above
grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the way to
the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the space
cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&l=ccd438df1e

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off the
face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid him
for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some grading
finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have the equipment
for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without a rollback it's
expensive to rent equipment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's what I did for specs. It covers the basics.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is not some hard rule about the span of your upper floor. *It's
whatever an engineer designs and certifies for the trusses. *No matter
what arrangement you have with the guy building it, he went to a truss
manufacturer for the trusses. *They're the ones on the hook for
certifying that the trusses meet whatever dead and live loads are
required. *They probably had a number of gambrel trusses engineered up
already. *Can't say if they had one that had a wider upper story space
or not. *The company name is probably on the trusses or on some
paperwork with the trusses. *You could call them and ask if they have
a collection of gambrel truss designs ready to go. *Bottom line you
could have a wider 2nd story floor. *Might have been cheaper for the
guy to get these with 12' space instead of an 15' space. *Or maybe he
just screwed up.

Doesn't change where you are. *If the trusses are sitting on your lot
then you have limited choices.

If you have an agreement with the builder that covers the basic specs
including a 15' wide 2nd story, and you both signed it, and you have
not paid him or the truss company then you could tell him to make it
right or pack up and leave.

If you have already given him money that changes things a lot. *While
you might be in the right legally doing something about it is a whole
nother kettle of fish. *Getting something out of a small contractor
via small claims court is a total pain in the ass. *After considerable
effort you may get a judgement against him. *But that just means you
won in court. You have to follow up with trying to collect it. *Often
that is just as much if not more work than getting the judgement.

Where do you stand with this guy? *Got any sort of agreement in
writing? *Have you paid him anything yet? *How much other work has he
done? *You mentioned the concrete problems, is that fixed? *Or is this
guy on the hook to jackhammer that out still? *Concrete company
admitting fault?

This will really get some of your naysayers riled I suspect, but if
you want to go totally off the reservation you might be able to modify
the trusses you have to get the extra 3'. *But only if you're building
without getting inspections. *I built some roof trusses from scratch
for an addition once. *I laid them out on the driveway and used
squares of osb, construction adhesive, and deck screws in place of the
metal plates. *They've been up 10 years now. *But these were for a
roof, not a floor. *With a floor the loads are a whole lot bigger.
That partly why I don't like engineered trusses that include a floor.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

SInce you're not out any money yet you are in a decent position. In
this case the contractor is possibly more hurt by the original lack of
a paper agreement than you. It's always a good idea to get something
down on paper no matter how simple the job. Even if it's just a few
hand drawings and a paragraph or so of description. If for no other
reason it gives everyone something to refresh their memory with days
later when ordering materials or planning concurrent projects.

You are still at some risk that the guy will just decide all hope of
profit is gone and he walks. Do you have his signature on you
contract yet?

I looked at your original post since you seem to have riled up a fair
number of others. You did come off with a bit of attitude but I can't
say you really crossed the line. I think you could have left the
adversarial situatiion with your contractor out of the post and still
asked the questions you wanted to ask. Some of these guys are
typically on the other side of those situations and the also ones
being wronged in a lot of cases.

Since you're back to the drawing board imho I'd go over the details of
your roof system with your contractor before anyone orders more
trusses. Like I've said a couple times before I'm not fond of those
as a general rule. In the gambrel garage situation a lot of times
that space ends up being used as storage. Your contractor probably
priced trusses based on the minimum required for code. Probably 40/10
L360. If that space gets used as storage at some point in the future
somebody is going to exceed the spec. That might not be in your plans
at the moment but we all know how things change. It's not going to
fall down but the deflection and bounce will probably be lousy. Now's
the time to think about spending a little extra, probably just a few
hundred per truss to go to some higher standards.

The parent owner of the contract company showed up today and apologized for
all the screw-ups and bad work. He has fired the foreman who was in charge
of building my garage. After speaking with me, the cement finisher and the
truss company, he sided with me and caught the foreman in several lies. The
owner is removing the trusses from my lot, the concrete slab will be tested
and if found defective will be removed as well at no cost to me.
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Dec 23, 3:29 pm, "Danimal" wrote:
Thanks James for the thought out sensible answer and mutual respect.
I have not paid a cent for anything and nor will I until the job is
completed to my satisfaction. Yes I have all the permits in place and no I
did not hire an architect to draw up plans for a simple 26' x26' square
box
with a Gambrel roof.
I took this guy who was pretty cocksure of himself ( much like some of the
ignoramuses who post her) that he could give me exactly as I requested. He
went off to the truss company not taking the pitch or roof angle into
consideration and had them build the trusses without telling them to allow
for maximum loft space or checking back with me to see if I would be
satisfied with the given loft space . When the trusses were delivered to
my
lot, I voiced my concern to this guy who told me based on span and size of
the lumber used, I was getting maximum allowable loft space. All I wanted
was a credible journey man carpenter and poster from this group to point
me
in the right direction. Instead I had a pack of Hyenas scoff and tell me
that I deserved what I got without knowing anything.
Since I posted last, I have found and printed off much information on my
own
to show and prove the incompetence of the contractor who is now
back-peddling and trying to figure out a way to suck up the cost of these
store bought trusses that are of no use to me what-so-ever.
Since this man was recommended by the contractor whom I know from previous
jobs done well and who will be paving my driveway in the spring, I have
since gotten a legal binding contract drawn up for all work listed to
protect my future investments, but I was left with no choice to do. One
time
you could honour a man at his word and handshake alone, such was not the
case here. Also on that note, a friend who happens to be a registered
government building inspector, has volunteered his services for free.

I learned a few lessons for this week, thanks to those who tried to offer
some real assistance and a special alt.home.repairs thanks, goes out to
the
other idiots who post here who did not help at all but gave me enough
insight to remind me to take care of myself and rely less on others for
anything including advice.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Dec 23, 2:26 am, "Danimal" wrote:





thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a
gambrel roof truss and loft space.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Dec 22, 11:49 am, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Dec 21, 5:31 pm, "Danimal" wrote:

Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for
my
new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is
an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not
want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or
show
me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26
long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26
long
room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is
exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x
26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly
what
I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the
bigger
you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could
almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even
though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's
the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft
ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26'
wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof
that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal

You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort of
spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to be a
big production, just a page or two with the highlights like dimensions
in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even with it's
going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in the
trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the whole
job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it from
here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those trusses on
craig's list. You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof in
my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and with a
10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far above
grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the way to
the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the space
cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&l=ccd438df1e

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off the
face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid him
for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some grading
finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have the equipment
for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without a rollback it's
expensive to rent equipment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's what I did for specs. It covers the basics.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/-Hide quoted text -

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There is not some hard rule about the span of your upper floor. It's
whatever an engineer designs and certifies for the trusses. No matter
what arrangement you have with the guy building it, he went to a truss
manufacturer for the trusses. They're the ones on the hook for
certifying that the trusses meet whatever dead and live loads are
required. They probably had a number of gambrel trusses engineered up
already. Can't say if they had one that had a wider upper story space
or not. The company name is probably on the trusses or on some
paperwork with the trusses. You could call them and ask if they have
a collection of gambrel truss designs ready to go. Bottom line you
could have a wider 2nd story floor. Might have been cheaper for the
guy to get these with 12' space instead of an 15' space. Or maybe he
just screwed up.

Doesn't change where you are. If the trusses are sitting on your lot
then you have limited choices.

If you have an agreement with the builder that covers the basic specs
including a 15' wide 2nd story, and you both signed it, and you have
not paid him or the truss company then you could tell him to make it
right or pack up and leave.

If you have already given him money that changes things a lot. While
you might be in the right legally doing something about it is a whole
nother kettle of fish. Getting something out of a small contractor
via small claims court is a total pain in the ass. After considerable
effort you may get a judgement against him. But that just means you
won in court. You have to follow up with trying to collect it. Often
that is just as much if not more work than getting the judgement.

Where do you stand with this guy? Got any sort of agreement in
writing? Have you paid him anything yet? How much other work has he
done? You mentioned the concrete problems, is that fixed? Or is this
guy on the hook to jackhammer that out still? Concrete company
admitting fault?

This will really get some of your naysayers riled I suspect, but if
you want to go totally off the reservation you might be able to modify
the trusses you have to get the extra 3'. But only if you're building
without getting inspections. I built some roof trusses from scratch
for an addition once. I laid them out on the driveway and used
squares of osb, construction adhesive, and deck screws in place of the
metal plates. They've been up 10 years now. But these were for a
roof, not a floor. With a floor the loads are a whole lot bigger.
That partly why I don't like engineered trusses that include a floor.-
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SInce you're not out any money yet you are in a decent position. In
this case the contractor is possibly more hurt by the original lack of
a paper agreement than you. It's always a good idea to get something
down on paper no matter how simple the job. Even if it's just a few
hand drawings and a paragraph or so of description. If for no other
reason it gives everyone something to refresh their memory with days
later when ordering materials or planning concurrent projects.

You are still at some risk that the guy will just decide all hope of
profit is gone and he walks. Do you have his signature on you
contract yet?

I looked at your original post since you seem to have riled up a fair
number of others. You did come off with a bit of attitude but I can't
say you really crossed the line. I think you could have left the
adversarial situatiion with your contractor out of the post and still
asked the questions you wanted to ask. Some of these guys are
typically on the other side of those situations and the also ones
being wronged in a lot of cases.

Since you're back to the drawing board imho I'd go over the details of
your roof system with your contractor before anyone orders more
trusses. Like I've said a couple times before I'm not fond of those
as a general rule. In the gambrel garage situation a lot of times
that space ends up being used as storage. Your contractor probably
priced trusses based on the minimum required for code. Probably 40/10
L360. If that space gets used as storage at some point in the future
somebody is going to exceed the spec. That might not be in your plans
at the moment but we all know how things change. It's not going to
fall down but the deflection and bounce will probably be lousy. Now's
the time to think about spending a little extra, probably just a few
hundred per truss to go to some higher standards.

Danimal wrote:
EXT, You sir have some Gaul and nerve
You are a ****ing stuck up prick and nothing less. I don't need your
lessons one , two or ****ing three. I asked this group for simple
specifics like proof or a web site concerning roof trusses that's
all. Your 50 years of experience is worthless because you lack much
in the department of simple compassion to help or give free advice to
those who seek it. You obviously can't help yourself because you have
better than 50 years experience of being a pedantic asshole which
outshines your ability to give simple advice on how to hold a ****ing
16 oz claw hammer or nail two boards together. This advice to you sir
holds true because, unknown to you, your over-sized ego has long
since taken over without your knowledge and too bad for you, over
shadows any credibility you may have had. The only thing you have
left is the lack lustre ability to blather on about your own self
importance. You couldn't offer advice to a five dollar whore on how
to rid herself of the body crabs. You take so much joy in masturbating to
the sound of you own
stupidity, that you still haven't figured out why your cock turns
orange every time to eat cheesies.


WOW. I think you should be writing greeting cards, there must be a market
out there for that kind of abuse.

Here's some more advice to you......, remove the stucco from your nose and
in the future, don't go around with it stuck up in the air. You won't have
to take abuse when someone asks a specific question on this so called
help/advice group, answer it or ignore it, plain and simple. Drop the
bull**** about your 50 years of construction experience and what your advice
is worth.
Save the drama for your mama

"EXT" wrote in message
WOW. I think you should be writing greeting cards, there must be a market
out there for that kind of abuse.