On Dec 23, 3:29*pm, "Danimal" wrote:
Thanks James for the thought out sensible answer and mutual respect.
I have not paid a cent for anything and nor will I until the job is
completed to my satisfaction. Yes I have all the permits in place and no I
did not hire an architect to draw up plans for a simple 26' x26' square box
with a Gambrel roof.
I took this guy who was pretty cocksure of himself ( much like some of the
ignoramuses who post her) that he could give me exactly as I requested. He
went off to the truss company not taking the pitch or roof angle into
consideration and had them build the trusses without telling them to allow
for maximum loft space or checking back with me to see if I would be
satisfied with the given loft space . When the trusses were delivered to my
lot, I voiced my concern to this guy who told me based on span and size of
the lumber used, I was getting maximum allowable loft space. All I wanted
was a credible journey man carpenter and poster from this group to point me
in the right direction. Instead I had a pack of Hyenas scoff and tell me
that I deserved what I got without knowing anything.
Since I posted last, I have found and printed off much information on my own
to show and prove *the incompetence of the contractor who is now
back-peddling and trying to figure out a way to suck up the cost of these
store bought trusses that are of no use to me what-so-ever.
Since this man was recommended by the contractor whom I know from previous
jobs done well *and who will be paving my driveway in the spring, I have
since gotten a legal binding contract drawn up for all work listed to
protect my future investments, but I was left with no choice to do. One time
you could honour a man at his word and handshake alone, such was not the
case here. Also on that note, a friend who happens to be a registered
government building inspector, has volunteered his services for free.
I learned a few lessons for this week, thanks to those who tried to offer
some real assistance and a special alt.home.repairs thanks, *goes out to the
other idiots who post here who did not help at all but gave me enough
insight to remind me to take care of myself and rely less on others for
anything including advice.
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Dec 23, 2:26 am, "Danimal" wrote:
thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a
gambrel roof truss and loft space.
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
....
On Dec 22, 11:49 am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Dec 21, 5:31 pm, "Danimal" wrote:
Hi all,
I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my
new
garage has gone to **** because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an
argument and moan for another day.
Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not
want
opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show
me an
engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26
long,
the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long
room
upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is
exactly
what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x
26'
He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly
what
I
wanted.
Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space
allowed
for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the
bigger
you
go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could
almost
believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even
though
it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the
question Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft
ceilings
top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide
garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof
that he
is lying.
Thanks in advance for all help
Danimal
You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd
guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort of
spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to be a
big production, just a page or two with the highlights like dimensions
in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even with it's
going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in the
trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the whole
job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it from
here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those trusses on
craig's list. You'll take a loss though.
I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story
space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof in
my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and with a
10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far above
grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the way to
the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the space
cause there is nothing load bearing in it.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&l=ccd438df1e
I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off the
face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid him
for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some grading
finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have the equipment
for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without a rollback it's
expensive to rent equipment.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Here's what I did for specs. It covers the basics.
http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
There is not some hard rule about the span of your upper floor. *It's
whatever an engineer designs and certifies for the trusses. *No matter
what arrangement you have with the guy building it, he went to a truss
manufacturer for the trusses. *They're the ones on the hook for
certifying that the trusses meet whatever dead and live loads are
required. *They probably had a number of gambrel trusses engineered up
already. *Can't say if they had one that had a wider upper story space
or not. *The company name is probably on the trusses or on some
paperwork with the trusses. *You could call them and ask if they have
a collection of gambrel truss designs ready to go. *Bottom line you
could have a wider 2nd story floor. *Might have been cheaper for the
guy to get these with 12' space instead of an 15' space. *Or maybe he
just screwed up.
Doesn't change where you are. *If the trusses are sitting on your lot
then you have limited choices.
If you have an agreement with the builder that covers the basic specs
including a 15' wide 2nd story, and you both signed it, and you have
not paid him or the truss company then you could tell him to make it
right or pack up and leave.
If you have already given him money that changes things a lot. *While
you might be in the right legally doing something about it is a whole
nother kettle of fish. *Getting something out of a small contractor
via small claims court is a total pain in the ass. *After considerable
effort you may get a judgement against him. *But that just means you
won in court. You have to follow up with trying to collect it. *Often
that is just as much if not more work than getting the judgement.
Where do you stand with this guy? *Got any sort of agreement in
writing? *Have you paid him anything yet? *How much other work has he
done? *You mentioned the concrete problems, is that fixed? *Or is this
guy on the hook to jackhammer that out still? *Concrete company
admitting fault?
This will really get some of your naysayers riled I suspect, but if
you want to go totally off the reservation you might be able to modify
the trusses you have to get the extra 3'. *But only if you're building
without getting inspections. *I built some roof trusses from scratch
for an addition once. *I laid them out on the driveway and used
squares of osb, construction adhesive, and deck screws in place of the
metal plates. *They've been up 10 years now. *But these were for a
roof, not a floor. *With a floor the loads are a whole lot bigger.
That partly why I don't like engineered trusses that include a floor.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
SInce you're not out any money yet you are in a decent position. In
this case the contractor is possibly more hurt by the original lack of
a paper agreement than you. It's always a good idea to get something
down on paper no matter how simple the job. Even if it's just a few
hand drawings and a paragraph or so of description. If for no other
reason it gives everyone something to refresh their memory with days
later when ordering materials or planning concurrent projects.
You are still at some risk that the guy will just decide all hope of
profit is gone and he walks. Do you have his signature on you
contract yet?
I looked at your original post since you seem to have riled up a fair
number of others. You did come off with a bit of attitude but I can't
say you really crossed the line. I think you could have left the
adversarial situatiion with your contractor out of the post and still
asked the questions you wanted to ask. Some of these guys are
typically on the other side of those situations and the also ones
being wronged in a lot of cases.
Since you're back to the drawing board imho I'd go over the details of
your roof system with your contractor before anyone orders more
trusses. Like I've said a couple times before I'm not fond of those
as a general rule. In the gambrel garage situation a lot of times
that space ends up being used as storage. Your contractor probably
priced trusses based on the minimum required for code. Probably 40/10
L360. If that space gets used as storage at some point in the future
somebody is going to exceed the spec. That might not be in your plans
at the moment but we all know how things change. It's not going to
fall down but the deflection and bounce will probably be lousy. Now's
the time to think about spending a little extra, probably just a few
hundred per truss to go to some higher standards.