Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
planet. It will also affect us;
rising sea levels, dwindling water supplies, mass deaths due to heat
waves, stoppage of the gulfstream, which
brings milder climate to north of Europe, super hurricanes, less food
due to droughts are some of the effects.
As you also know global warming is produced due to CO2 emissions
coming from burning of fossil fuels. So what
can every single person do to reduce global warming ?


1) Insulation: Do you know that you can save 50% of heating energy
(and money) by insulation ? Especially in
the times the financial crisis, you can make the insulation cheaper
and save the money when oil, natural gas and
coal prices are higher due to higher demand. What needs to be
insulated ? Firstly the Roof, since warmer air
goes up, then the windows (tripple glass or at least dual glass and
shutters for additional insulation at night,
and in summer time), then the outer walls. Also small cracks, leaks in
weatherstrips etc should be eliminated.
An infrared inspection of your house for heat losses would be the best
way to find out what else can be done.
A wintergarden will help heating your house additionally in winter
time.

2) Using rechargable batteries instead of alkaline batteries, and
charge them during less demand ours like at night
will also save a lot of energy and money.

3) Lightning; the use of Compact fluorescent lamps instead of
traditioanl light bulbs will save 80% of energy, the
use of very new LED lamps will save even more.

4) Buying local. Most of the energy is spent for transportation of
imported goods, especially food. By buying local
made food you not only save a lot of energy, but also create more jobs
at home.

5) Heating; there are several way to save energy and money by changing
the heating method; you can use the free heat
of the nature by adding a solar thermal equipment to heat the water
for taking showers and also to heat your home.
Additionally you can use a heating pump, which funtions like a reverse
fridge; it takes the heat of the outside and
transfers it to your home. You use much much less energy to do this
(electricity to pump a liquid).

6) Your car; by buying a hybrid car you save 30% of fuel, by
converting your car to CNG (compressed natural gas) you
can save a lot of CO2, since CNG has much less carbon but more
hydrogen, which will result in water (CH4 instead of
C8H18). CNG will also result in much more energy output per mass. The
conversion is not very expensive. It is totally
save, since the storage has to resist a certain pressure.
Of course there are also other smaller things you have to consider:
- Each 60 pounds increases fuel consumption by 10%.
- Aggressive driving (speeding, rapid acceleration, and hard braking)
wastes gas. It can lower your highway gas mileage
33% and city mileage 5%.
- Drive at lowest and constant rpms; 2000 rpm are enough; you can save
up to 30%. Even a Porsche can be driven at the
4th gear at 20 mph and at the 6th gear at 50 mph with 2.5 times less
fuel consumption.
- Avoid high speeds. Driving 75 mph, rather than 65 mph, could cut
your fuel economy by 15%.
- Use air conditioning only when necessary
- Keep tires properly inflated and aligned to improve your gasoline
mileage by around 3.3%.
- Replace clogged air filters to improve gas mileage by as much as 10%
and protect your engine
- Combine errands into one trip. Several short trips, each one taken
from a cold start, can use twice as much fuel as
one trip covering the same distance when the engine is warm. Do not
forget that in the first mile your car uses 8
times more fuel, in the second mile 4 times and only after the
fourth mile it becomes normal

7) Buying A++ or A+++ equipments. The extra money you pay for this
will be back in 1-2 years. It will save a lot of CO2.

8) Try to save also energy at your job; you can do it by insulation,
more efficient processes, heat recovery, more
efficient pumps/engines, low temperature processses, material
saving, water savings, optimization, automatic turning
off of unnecessary energy using processes, control if some
processes are really necessary (the change of some
processes makes other processes sometimes unnecesarry on which
nobody has thought about).

9) Solar cells for your own home; at the moment solar cells are very
cheap since there is an overproduction. These cells
can operate a fridge for example.

Regards.

Actually, don't you mean that government over regulation is?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


".." wrote in message
...
Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life
on the
planet.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:29:55 -0800, .. wrote:
Dear All,

Didn't like the response you got when you spammed uk.d-i-y with this crap
a few days ago?

... wrote:
Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
planet. It will also affect us;

Hey you moron, SPAM causes Global Warming. I wish you would
tell the Global Warming freaks to turn the thermostat back up,
it's cold around here! Is cold the new Global Warming, or what?

TDD

Van Chocstraw wrote:
On 12/18/2009 11:29 AM, .. wrote:
Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the


Generally saving money saves energy saves the planet.
So why did GM kill the electric car and crush all the
EV1,s??????????????? Maybe the government is full of ****.

What's with the "Maybe" part of your statement? There is NO Maybe
about it, the government is full of crap and that is real science.

On Dec 18, 12:42*pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
.. wrote:
Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
planet. It will also affect us;

Hey you moron, SPAM causes Global Warming. I wish you would
tell the Global Warming freaks to turn the thermostat back up,
it's cold around here! Is cold the new Global Warming, or what?

TDD

Haven't you gotten the word yet...the Global Warming term is no longer
acceptable, its now called Climate Change which means that Anything
and Everything can be blamed on it. Too COLD, that's Climate Change.
Too HOT, that's Climate Change. Drought, that's Climate Change as is
too much Rain. When the Chicken-littles couldn't continue to prove
their Global Warming crap they decided that it was easier to claim
Climate Change instead.

The following should bring a real concern to you all.....

Subject: US Weather Bureau Report

US Weather Bureau Report
The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in
some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a
report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at
Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he
declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and
hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration
expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far
north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters
showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been
replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while
at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few
seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast
shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far
north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.


Sorry, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2,
1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post.
For a complete background read extensive reports at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/1...icebergs-melt/

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:16:28 -0800 (PST), BobR
wrote Re Global Warming and what you
can do to against it:

Sorry, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2,
1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post.
For a complete background read extensive reports at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/1...icebergs-melt/

Good post. Thanks
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

BobR wrote:
On Dec 18, 12:42 pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
.. wrote:
Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
planet. It will also affect us;
Hey you moron, SPAM causes Global Warming. I wish you would
tell the Global Warming freaks to turn the thermostat back up,
it's cold around here! Is cold the new Global Warming, or what?

TDD

Haven't you gotten the word yet...the Global Warming term is no longer
acceptable, its now called Climate Change which means that Anything
and Everything can be blamed on it. Too COLD, that's Climate Change.
Too HOT, that's Climate Change. Drought, that's Climate Change as is
too much Rain. When the Chicken-littles couldn't continue to prove
their Global Warming crap they decided that it was easier to claim
Climate Change instead.

The following should bring a real concern to you all.....

Subject: US Weather Bureau Report

US Weather Bureau Report
The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in
some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a
report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at
Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he
declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and
hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration
expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far
north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters
showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been
replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while
at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few
seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast
shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far
north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.


Sorry, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2,
1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post.
For a complete background read extensive reports at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/1...icebergs-melt/


I get it now! We're in a climate change CYCLE! Dumbass climate huggers....

TDD

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:29:55 -0800 (PST), ".."
wrote:

Dear All,
GARBAGE CHOPPED!!!

Now, come and shovel the four inches of global warming off of my driveway.

Think Green/Global Warming-2
a.. 2 days ago
b.. Post a comment


Global warming is not a joke I am very much puzzled with this cliché's

Think Green/Global Warming

I am not educated or having any degree.

However our Law makers and scientist seems to me are missing something here,
perhaps I am exaggerating is it that we are not been tolled a truth or is it
they don't know better.

In recent months it was in the news how much CO2 we are generating "and" how
much we have reduced this pollutant gasses. However at same time our
atmosphere needless to say is getting much worse. The Ice caps at Southern
and Northern Pole are melting at much higher rate. It is my opinion that
world scientists are not giving us an explanation to why is this happening.
With exception blaming it all on CO2. Perhaps they don't want to give the
people a truth, "as to why" you guess is good as mine.

In my opinion there is something ales that no one is addressing. As it is
said that we pouring CO2 into atmosphere which we are?

However did anyone ever took in consideration that we are also depleting
Oxygen out of atmosphere "Hello". It is known fact that when you add
something to the spot you are also displacing something, or some one, from
that place, location, this can not be disputed it is mother nature, like
wise by removing something, someone from particular area, place, spot,
something will take that area space, spot, regardless if it is in form of
solids or gas, effects are the same. Now just maybe, and let me say again
just maybe that it is not as much that we are putting CO2 up there but that
we are taking Oxygen out of atmosphere and that CO2 and many other chemicals
are taking it space, location.

Now I can not suggest are gave any solution to above why this is happening
are even know if World Scientist are giving us a true or correct numbers on
such?



However I would like to ask the Atmosphere Scientist and our Government?
Have any of them ever made any experimental test what kind effect does CO2
have on Ice melting point and how fast will take to melt (x) amount compare
to Microwaves generated by our current Appliances, Satellites, Broadcasting,
Cell- phones ETC. and not "accounting" for Military actions through out the
world!

Presently we are "bombarding" our earth with powerful microwaves Equivalent
to Sun rays of such proportion that we are killing ourselves. It is not that
CO2 is a culprit of Global Warming but the OXYGEN that we are depleting from
the atmosphere. Is it CO2 good for our health definitely not however there
is other things that should be taking in consideration and not focusing just
one. In my opinion we are proceeding, sorry correction we are continuing in
direction of disaster and no one is addressing these issues??????



Puzzled: A. Seput

Palisades Park, NJ

".." wrote in message
...
Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
planet. It will also affect us;
rising sea levels, dwindling water supplies, mass deaths due to heat
waves, stoppage of the gulfstream, which
brings milder climate to north of Europe, super hurricanes, less food
due to droughts are some of the effects.
As you also know global warming is produced due to CO2 emissions
coming from burning of fossil fuels. So what
can every single person do to reduce global warming ?


1) Insulation: Do you know that you can save 50% of heating energy
(and money) by insulation ? Especially in
the times the financial crisis, you can make the insulation cheaper
and save the money when oil, natural gas and
coal prices are higher due to higher demand. What needs to be
insulated ? Firstly the Roof, since warmer air
goes up, then the windows (tripple glass or at least dual glass and
shutters for additional insulation at night,
and in summer time), then the outer walls. Also small cracks, leaks in
weatherstrips etc should be eliminated.
An infrared inspection of your house for heat losses would be the best
way to find out what else can be done.
A wintergarden will help heating your house additionally in winter
time.

2) Using rechargable batteries instead of alkaline batteries, and
charge them during less demand ours like at night
will also save a lot of energy and money.

3) Lightning; the use of Compact fluorescent lamps instead of
traditioanl light bulbs will save 80% of energy, the
use of very new LED lamps will save even more.

4) Buying local. Most of the energy is spent for transportation of
imported goods, especially food. By buying local
made food you not only save a lot of energy, but also create more jobs
at home.

5) Heating; there are several way to save energy and money by changing
the heating method; you can use the free heat
of the nature by adding a solar thermal equipment to heat the water
for taking showers and also to heat your home.
Additionally you can use a heating pump, which funtions like a reverse
fridge; it takes the heat of the outside and
transfers it to your home. You use much much less energy to do this
(electricity to pump a liquid).

6) Your car; by buying a hybrid car you save 30% of fuel, by
converting your car to CNG (compressed natural gas) you
can save a lot of CO2, since CNG has much less carbon but more
hydrogen, which will result in water (CH4 instead of
C8H18). CNG will also result in much more energy output per mass. The
conversion is not very expensive. It is totally
save, since the storage has to resist a certain pressure.
Of course there are also other smaller things you have to consider:
- Each 60 pounds increases fuel consumption by 10%.
- Aggressive driving (speeding, rapid acceleration, and hard braking)
wastes gas. It can lower your highway gas mileage
33% and city mileage 5%.
- Drive at lowest and constant rpms; 2000 rpm are enough; you can save
up to 30%. Even a Porsche can be driven at the
4th gear at 20 mph and at the 6th gear at 50 mph with 2.5 times less
fuel consumption.
- Avoid high speeds. Driving 75 mph, rather than 65 mph, could cut
your fuel economy by 15%.
- Use air conditioning only when necessary
- Keep tires properly inflated and aligned to improve your gasoline
mileage by around 3.3%.
- Replace clogged air filters to improve gas mileage by as much as 10%
and protect your engine
- Combine errands into one trip. Several short trips, each one taken
from a cold start, can use twice as much fuel as
one trip covering the same distance when the engine is warm. Do not
forget that in the first mile your car uses 8
times more fuel, in the second mile 4 times and only after the
fourth mile it becomes normal

7) Buying A++ or A+++ equipments. The extra money you pay for this
will be back in 1-2 years. It will save a lot of CO2.

8) Try to save also energy at your job; you can do it by insulation,
more efficient processes, heat recovery, more
efficient pumps/engines, low temperature processses, material
saving, water savings, optimization, automatic turning
off of unnecessary energy using processes, control if some
processes are really necessary (the change of some
processes makes other processes sometimes unnecesarry on which
nobody has thought about).

9) Solar cells for your own home; at the moment solar cells are very
cheap since there is an overproduction. These cells
can operate a fridge for example.

Regards.

On Dec 19, 1:27*pm, "Grumpy" wrote:
Think Green/Global Warming-2
* a.. 2 days ago
* b.. Post a comment

Global warming is not a joke I am very much puzzled with this cliché's

Think Green/Global Warming

I am not educated or having any degree.

However our Law makers and scientist seems to me are missing something here,
perhaps I am exaggerating is it that we are not been tolled a truth or is it
they don't know better.

In recent months it was in the news how much CO2 we are generating "and" how
much we have reduced this pollutant gasses. However at same time our
atmosphere needless to say is getting much worse. The Ice caps at Southern
and Northern Pole are melting at much higher rate. It is my opinion that
world scientists are not giving us an explanation to why is this happening.
With exception blaming it all on CO2. Perhaps they don't want to give the
people a truth, "as to why" you guess is good as mine.

In my opinion there is something ales that no one is addressing. *As it is
said that we pouring CO2 into atmosphere which we are?

However did anyone ever took in consideration that we are also depleting
Oxygen out of atmosphere "Hello". It is known fact that when you add
something to the spot you are also displacing something, or some one, from
that place, location, this can not be disputed it is mother nature, like
wise by removing something, *someone from particular area, place, spot,
something will take that area space, spot, regardless if it is in form of
solids or gas, effects are the same. Now just maybe, and let me say again
just maybe that it is not as much that we are putting CO2 up there but that
we are taking Oxygen out of atmosphere and that CO2 and many other chemicals
are taking it space, location.

Now I can not suggest are gave any solution to above why this is happening
are even know if World Scientist are giving us a true or correct numbers on
such?

However I would like to ask the Atmosphere Scientist and our Government?
Have any of them ever made any experimental test what kind effect does CO2
have on Ice melting point and how fast will take to melt (x) amount compare
to Microwaves generated by our current Appliances, Satellites, Broadcasting,
Cell- phones ETC. and not "accounting" for Military actions through out the
world!

Presently we are "bombarding" our earth with powerful microwaves Equivalent
to Sun rays of such proportion that we are killing ourselves. It is not that
CO2 is a culprit of Global Warming but the OXYGEN that we are depleting from
the atmosphere. Is it CO2 good for our health definitely not however there
is other things that should be taking in consideration and not focusing just
one. In my opinion we are proceeding, sorry correction we are continuing in
direction of disaster and no one is addressing these issues??????

Puzzled: A. Seput

Palisades Park, NJ

".." wrote in message

...



Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
planet. It will also affect us;
rising sea levels, dwindling water supplies, mass deaths due to heat
waves, stoppage of the gulfstream, which
brings milder climate to north of Europe, super hurricanes, less food
due to droughts are some of the effects.
As you also know global warming is produced due to CO2 emissions
coming from burning of fossil fuels. So what
can every single person do to reduce global warming ?

1) Insulation: Do you know that you can save 50% of heating energy
(and money) by insulation ? *Especially in
the times the financial crisis, you can make the insulation cheaper
and save the money when oil, natural gas and
coal prices are higher due to higher demand. What needs to be
insulated ? Firstly the Roof, since warmer air
goes up, then the windows (tripple glass or at least dual glass and
shutters for additional insulation at night,
and in summer time), then the outer walls. Also small cracks, leaks in
weatherstrips etc should be eliminated.
An infrared inspection of your house for heat losses would be the best
way to find out what else can be done.
A wintergarden will help heating your house additionally in winter
time.

2) Using rechargable batteries instead of alkaline batteries, and
charge them during less demand ours like at night
will also save a lot of energy and money.

3) Lightning; the use of Compact fluorescent lamps instead of
traditioanl light bulbs will save 80% of energy, the
use of very new LED lamps will save even more.

4) Buying local. Most of the energy is spent for transportation of
imported goods, especially food. By buying local
made food you not only save a lot of energy, but also create more jobs
at home.

5) Heating; there are several way to save energy and money by changing
the heating method; you can use the free heat
of the nature by adding a solar thermal equipment to heat the water
for taking showers and also to heat your home.
Additionally you can use a heating pump, which funtions like a reverse
fridge; it takes the heat of the outside and
transfers it to your home. You use much much less energy to do this
(electricity to pump a liquid).

6) Your car; by buying a hybrid car you save 30% of fuel, by
converting your car to CNG (compressed natural gas) you
can save a lot of CO2, since CNG has much less carbon but more
hydrogen, which will result in water (CH4 instead of
C8H18). CNG will also result in much more energy output per mass. The
conversion is not very expensive. It is totally
save, since the storage has to resist a certain pressure.
Of course there are also other smaller things you have to consider:
- Each 60 pounds increases fuel consumption by 10%.
- Aggressive driving (speeding, rapid acceleration, and hard braking)
wastes gas. It can lower your highway gas mileage
*33% and city mileage 5%.
- Drive at lowest and constant rpms; 2000 rpm are enough; you can save
up to 30%. Even a Porsche can be driven at the
*4th gear at 20 mph and at the 6th gear at 50 mph with 2.5 times less
fuel consumption.
- Avoid high speeds. Driving 75 mph, rather than 65 mph, could cut
your fuel economy by 15%.
- Use air conditioning only when necessary
- Keep tires properly inflated and aligned to improve your gasoline
mileage by around 3.3%.
- Replace clogged air filters to improve gas mileage by as much as 10%
and protect your engine
- Combine errands into one trip. Several short trips, each one taken
from a cold start, can use twice as much fuel as
*one trip covering the same distance when the engine is warm. Do not
forget that in the first mile your car uses 8
*times more fuel, in the second mile 4 times and only after the
fourth mile it becomes normal

7) Buying A++ or A+++ equipments. The extra money you pay for this
will be back in 1-2 years. It will save a lot of CO2.

8) Try to save also energy at your job; you can do it by insulation,
more efficient processes, heat recovery, more
* efficient pumps/engines, low temperature processses, material
saving, water savings, optimization, automatic turning
* off of unnecessary energy using processes, control if some
processes are really necessary (the change of some
* processes makes other processes sometimes unnecesarry on which
nobody has thought about).

9) Solar cells for your own home; at the moment solar cells are very
cheap since there is an overproduction. These cells
* can operate a fridge for example.

Regards.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 12/18/2009 11:29 AM, .. wrote:

Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the

Generally saving money saves energy saves the planet.
So why did GM kill the electric car and crush all the
EV1,s??????????????? Maybe the government is full of ****.

Interesting. Solar cells make electricity, which, via an inverter
operate fridge.

Fridge use the electricity which ends up as heat within the house
structure!.

Sounds good; except if one is in a hot climate and has to use other
electricity, generated perhaps by burning some sort of fossil fuel, to
operate air conditioning-cooling equipment!

Fortunately, here, almost 100% electricity is generated by hydro and
we don't need AC! Hmm! Seems there are some advantages to living in a
cooler climate?

BTW our ground temperature, judging from temp. of our incoming water
and basement workshop, is around 50 degrees F, summer or winter. Next
house, if ever, will be partly underground; hopefully on a hillside
looking out at the chilly but slightly warming Atlantic to the east.

PS. Been hoping that someone 'stole' one of the EV1s and has it
squirrelled away, somewhere; with improving battery technology that
would be (would have been?) a useful vehicle! While not a conspiracy
theorist that does strike one as a very suspicious sequence of events.
possibly in the long term very short sighted. Maybe someone like Jay
XXX could pull it off? And have the means to cope with any legal
ramifications until the one and only remaining vehicle was proclaimed
a 'Historical Artifact'?
Any way don't worry, other countries now ahead with near practical
electric cars!

terry wrote:
On Dec 19, 1:27 pm, "Grumpy" wrote:
Think Green/Global Warming-2
a.. 2 days ago
b.. Post a comment

Global warming is not a joke I am very much puzzled with this cliché's

Think Green/Global Warming

I am not educated or having any degree.

However our Law makers and scientist seems to me are missing something here,
perhaps I am exaggerating is it that we are not been tolled a truth or is it
they don't know better.

In recent months it was in the news how much CO2 we are generating "and" how
much we have reduced this pollutant gasses. However at same time our
atmosphere needless to say is getting much worse. The Ice caps at Southern
and Northern Pole are melting at much higher rate. It is my opinion that
world scientists are not giving us an explanation to why is this happening.
With exception blaming it all on CO2. Perhaps they don't want to give the
people a truth, "as to why" you guess is good as mine.

In my opinion there is something ales that no one is addressing. As it is
said that we pouring CO2 into atmosphere which we are?

However did anyone ever took in consideration that we are also depleting
Oxygen out of atmosphere "Hello". It is known fact that when you add
something to the spot you are also displacing something, or some one, from
that place, location, this can not be disputed it is mother nature, like
wise by removing something, someone from particular area, place, spot,
something will take that area space, spot, regardless if it is in form of
solids or gas, effects are the same. Now just maybe, and let me say again
just maybe that it is not as much that we are putting CO2 up there but that
we are taking Oxygen out of atmosphere and that CO2 and many other chemicals
are taking it space, location.

Now I can not suggest are gave any solution to above why this is happening
are even know if World Scientist are giving us a true or correct numbers on
such?

However I would like to ask the Atmosphere Scientist and our Government?
Have any of them ever made any experimental test what kind effect does CO2
have on Ice melting point and how fast will take to melt (x) amount compare
to Microwaves generated by our current Appliances, Satellites, Broadcasting,
Cell- phones ETC. and not "accounting" for Military actions through out the
world!

Presently we are "bombarding" our earth with powerful microwaves Equivalent
to Sun rays of such proportion that we are killing ourselves. It is not that
CO2 is a culprit of Global Warming but the OXYGEN that we are depleting from
the atmosphere. Is it CO2 good for our health definitely not however there
is other things that should be taking in consideration and not focusing just
one. In my opinion we are proceeding, sorry correction we are continuing in
direction of disaster and no one is addressing these issues??????

Puzzled: A. Seput

Palisades Park, NJ

".." wrote in message

...



Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
planet. It will also affect us;
rising sea levels, dwindling water supplies, mass deaths due to heat
waves, stoppage of the gulfstream, which
brings milder climate to north of Europe, super hurricanes, less food
due to droughts are some of the effects.
As you also know global warming is produced due to CO2 emissions
coming from burning of fossil fuels. So what
can every single person do to reduce global warming ?
1) Insulation: Do you know that you can save 50% of heating energy
(and money) by insulation ? Especially in
the times the financial crisis, you can make the insulation cheaper
and save the money when oil, natural gas and
coal prices are higher due to higher demand. What needs to be
insulated ? Firstly the Roof, since warmer air
goes up, then the windows (tripple glass or at least dual glass and
shutters for additional insulation at night,
and in summer time), then the outer walls. Also small cracks, leaks in
weatherstrips etc should be eliminated.
An infrared inspection of your house for heat losses would be the best
way to find out what else can be done.
A wintergarden will help heating your house additionally in winter
time.
2) Using rechargable batteries instead of alkaline batteries, and
charge them during less demand ours like at night
will also save a lot of energy and money.
3) Lightning; the use of Compact fluorescent lamps instead of
traditioanl light bulbs will save 80% of energy, the
use of very new LED lamps will save even more.
4) Buying local. Most of the energy is spent for transportation of
imported goods, especially food. By buying local
made food you not only save a lot of energy, but also create more jobs
at home.
5) Heating; there are several way to save energy and money by changing
the heating method; you can use the free heat
of the nature by adding a solar thermal equipment to heat the water
for taking showers and also to heat your home.
Additionally you can use a heating pump, which funtions like a reverse
fridge; it takes the heat of the outside and
transfers it to your home. You use much much less energy to do this
(electricity to pump a liquid).
6) Your car; by buying a hybrid car you save 30% of fuel, by
converting your car to CNG (compressed natural gas) you
can save a lot of CO2, since CNG has much less carbon but more
hydrogen, which will result in water (CH4 instead of
C8H18). CNG will also result in much more energy output per mass. The
conversion is not very expensive. It is totally
save, since the storage has to resist a certain pressure.
Of course there are also other smaller things you have to consider:
- Each 60 pounds increases fuel consumption by 10%.
- Aggressive driving (speeding, rapid acceleration, and hard braking)
wastes gas. It can lower your highway gas mileage
33% and city mileage 5%.
- Drive at lowest and constant rpms; 2000 rpm are enough; you can save
up to 30%. Even a Porsche can be driven at the
4th gear at 20 mph and at the 6th gear at 50 mph with 2.5 times less
fuel consumption.
- Avoid high speeds. Driving 75 mph, rather than 65 mph, could cut
your fuel economy by 15%.
- Use air conditioning only when necessary
- Keep tires properly inflated and aligned to improve your gasoline
mileage by around 3.3%.
- Replace clogged air filters to improve gas mileage by as much as 10%
and protect your engine
- Combine errands into one trip. Several short trips, each one taken
from a cold start, can use twice as much fuel as
one trip covering the same distance when the engine is warm. Do not
forget that in the first mile your car uses 8
times more fuel, in the second mile 4 times and only after the
fourth mile it becomes normal
7) Buying A++ or A+++ equipments. The extra money you pay for this
will be back in 1-2 years. It will save a lot of CO2.
8) Try to save also energy at your job; you can do it by insulation,
more efficient processes, heat recovery, more
efficient pumps/engines, low temperature processses, material
saving, water savings, optimization, automatic turning
off of unnecessary energy using processes, control if some
processes are really necessary (the change of some
processes makes other processes sometimes unnecesarry on which
nobody has thought about).
9) Solar cells for your own home; at the moment solar cells are very
cheap since there is an overproduction. These cells
can operate a fridge for example.
Regards.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

On 12/18/2009 11:29 AM, .. wrote:

Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
Generally saving money saves energy saves the planet.
So why did GM kill the electric car and crush all the
EV1,s??????????????? Maybe the government is full of ****.

Interesting. Solar cells make electricity, which, via an inverter
operate fridge.

Fridge use the electricity which ends up as heat within the house
structure!.

Sounds good; except if one is in a hot climate and has to use other
electricity, generated perhaps by burning some sort of fossil fuel, to
operate air conditioning-cooling equipment!

Fortunately, here, almost 100% electricity is generated by hydro and
we don't need AC! Hmm! Seems there are some advantages to living in a
cooler climate?

BTW our ground temperature, judging from temp. of our incoming water
and basement workshop, is around 50 degrees F, summer or winter. Next
house, if ever, will be partly underground; hopefully on a hillside
looking out at the chilly but slightly warming Atlantic to the east.

PS. Been hoping that someone 'stole' one of the EV1s and has it
squirrelled away, somewhere; with improving battery technology that
would be (would have been?) a useful vehicle! While not a conspiracy
theorist that does strike one as a very suspicious sequence of events.
possibly in the long term very short sighted. Maybe someone like Jay
XXX could pull it off? And have the means to cope with any legal
ramifications until the one and only remaining vehicle was proclaimed
a 'Historical Artifact'?
Any way don't worry, other countries now ahead with near practical
electric cars!

It's funny that you mentioned stashing an EV1, I watched the documentary
about who killed the electric car and there was a segment about a museum
or collector having one and the only way they were allowed to keep it
was that it had to be disabled. That whole episode has got to be one of
the most bizarre in all of American automotive history. GM has done some
very strange things over the years and one of them was killing their
Wankel engine development, imagine what they could have done with that
power plant using modern materials and computerized engine controls.

TDD

On Dec 18, 10:29*am, ".." wrote:
Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
planet. It will also affect us;
rising sea levels, dwindling water supplies, mass deaths due to heat
waves, stoppage of the gulfstream, which
brings milder climate to north of Europe, super hurricanes, less food
due to droughts are some of the effects.
As you also know global warming is produced due to CO2 emissions
coming from burning of fossil fuels. So what
can every single person do to reduce global warming ?

1) Insulation: Do you know that you can save 50% of heating energy
(and money) by insulation ? *Especially in
the times the financial crisis, you can make the insulation cheaper
and save the money when oil, natural gas and
coal prices are higher due to higher demand. What needs to be
insulated ? Firstly the Roof, since warmer air
goes up, then the windows (tripple glass or at least dual glass and
shutters for additional insulation at night,
and in summer time), then the outer walls. Also small cracks, leaks in
weatherstrips etc should be eliminated.
An infrared inspection of your house for heat losses would be the best
way to find out what else can be done.
A wintergarden will help heating your house additionally in winter
time.

2) Using rechargable batteries instead of alkaline batteries, and
charge them during less demand ours like at night
will also save a lot of energy and money.

3) Lightning; the use of Compact fluorescent lamps instead of
traditioanl light bulbs will save 80% of energy, the
use of very new LED lamps will save even more.

4) Buying local. Most of the energy is spent for transportation of
imported goods, especially food. By buying local
made food you not only save a lot of energy, but also create more jobs
at home.

5) Heating; there are several way to save energy and money by changing
the heating method; you can use the free heat
of the nature by adding a solar thermal equipment to heat the water
for taking showers and also to heat your home.
Additionally you can use a heating pump, which funtions like a reverse
fridge; it takes the heat of the outside and
transfers it to your home. You use much much less energy to do this
(electricity to pump a liquid).

6) Your car; by buying a hybrid car you save 30% of fuel, by
converting your car to CNG (compressed natural gas) you
can save a lot of CO2, since CNG has much less carbon but more
hydrogen, which will result in water (CH4 instead of
C8H18). CNG will also result in much more energy output per mass. The
conversion is not very expensive. It is totally
save, since the storage has to resist a certain pressure.
Of course there are also other smaller things you have to consider:
- Each 60 pounds increases fuel consumption by 10%.
- Aggressive driving (speeding, rapid acceleration, and hard braking)
wastes gas. It can lower your highway gas mileage
* 33% and city mileage 5%.
- Drive at lowest and constant rpms; 2000 rpm are enough; you can save
up to 30%. Even a Porsche can be driven at the
* 4th gear at 20 mph and at the 6th gear at 50 mph with 2.5 times less
fuel consumption.
- Avoid high speeds. Driving 75 mph, rather than 65 mph, could cut
your fuel economy by 15%.
- Use air conditioning only when necessary
- Keep tires properly inflated and aligned to improve your gasoline
mileage by around 3.3%.
- Replace clogged air filters to improve gas mileage by as much as 10%
and protect your engine
- Combine errands into one trip. Several short trips, each one taken
from a cold start, can use twice as much fuel as
* one trip covering the same distance when the engine is warm. Do not
forget that in the first mile your car uses 8
* times more fuel, in the second mile 4 times and only after the
fourth mile it becomes normal

7) Buying A++ or A+++ equipments. The extra money you pay for this
will be back in 1-2 years. It will save a lot of CO2.

8) Try to save also energy at your job; you can do it by insulation,
more efficient processes, heat recovery, more
* *efficient pumps/engines, low temperature processses, material
saving, water savings, optimization, automatic turning
* *off of unnecessary energy using processes, control if some
processes are really necessary (the change of some
* *processes makes other processes sometimes unnecesarry on which
nobody has thought about).

9) Solar cells for your own home; at the moment solar cells are very
cheap since there is an overproduction. These cells
* *can operate a fridge for example.

Regards.


If there is global warming then it is a natural process not caused by
man.

Also a little warming will improve life for man, provide longer and
more widespread growing seasons, more food, more commerce, less fuel
usage, etc.

The scientists cannot be trusted, as they are too politically
motivated.

The local politicians cannot be trusted as they have a socialist
agenda, and GW is a convenient crisis to shift wealth to the govt.

Al Gore cannot be trusted as he has a company set up to profit greatly
from carbon trading, and he has a carbon footprint 50 times larger
than mine.

The world politicians cannot be trusted as they are just looking for
us (the US) to shovel money into their bananna republics or mini-
dictatorships. That money will not go to any climate cause at all, it
will be confiscated by the local dictators to further their regimes.

When China buys in, then I'll believe GW is really happening, China is
much smarter than us (the US) lately. On the "issue" of GW China can
be trusted, as they are the only skeptics.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:46:48 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote Re Global Warming and what
you can do to against it:


If there is global warming then it is a natural process not caused by
man.

Also a little warming will improve life for man, provide longer and
more widespread growing seasons, more food, more commerce, less fuel
usage, etc.

The scientists cannot be trusted, as they are too politically
motivated.

The local politicians cannot be trusted as they have a socialist
agenda, and GW is a convenient crisis to shift wealth to the govt.

Al Gore cannot be trusted as he has a company set up to profit greatly
from carbon trading, and he has a carbon footprint 50 times larger
than mine.

The world politicians cannot be trusted as they are just looking for
us (the US) to shovel money into their bananna republics or mini-
dictatorships. That money will not go to any climate cause at all, it
will be confiscated by the local dictators to further their regimes.

When China buys in, then I'll believe GW is really happening, China is
much smarter than us (the US) lately. On the "issue" of GW China can
be trusted, as they are the only skeptics.

Good post.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:46:48 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote Re Global Warming and what
you can do to against it:


If there is global warming then it is a natural process not caused by
man.

Also a little warming will improve life for man, provide longer and
more widespread growing seasons, more food, more commerce, less fuel
usage, etc.

The scientists cannot be trusted, as they are too politically
motivated.

The local politicians cannot be trusted as they have a socialist
agenda, and GW is a convenient crisis to shift wealth to the govt.

Al Gore cannot be trusted as he has a company set up to profit greatly
from carbon trading, and he has a carbon footprint 50 times larger
than mine.

The world politicians cannot be trusted as they are just looking for
us (the US) to shovel money into their bananna republics or mini-
dictatorships. That money will not go to any climate cause at all, it
will be confiscated by the local dictators to further their regimes.

When China buys in, then I'll believe GW is really happening, China is
much smarter than us (the US) lately. On the "issue" of GW China can
be trusted, as they are the only skeptics.

Good post.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

In the 1960s scientists were predicting continued global cooling, as that is
what had been going on for a few decades. Some of them were actually
predicting the start of an ice age. In 1970 or so the globe started to warm
up again, and the global cooling hysteria ended. In the late 1970s, top
climate experts agreed on one thing - that their predictions were
unreliable, and we just didn't know enough to explain or predict global
warming/cooling. They were divided among whether the earth would warm, cool,
or stay the same. They just didn't know.

Today is the same. Climate experts cannot agree. Some say cooling, some say
warming, some say man-made warming, some say it is natural cycles. The most
recent warming trend appears to have stopped shortly after the year 2000,
which seems to be consistent with the warming/cooling cycles that we have
seen going on for over 100 years. Now we are in a cooling trend again (which
none of the climate models can explain), but it hasn't cooled enough, long
enough, to really be significant. What nobody knows right now, neither the
scientists, nor the politicians, and most definitely not the extremists, is
if the earth will continue to cool, or if it will start to warm up again.

It doesn't really matter what the temps do. We have a climate crisis and we
must save the planet (never mind that the extremists can't quite agree on
what the current crisis is...). And it is all the fault of George W. Bush
and the evil capitalist Americans (while ignoring how much CO2 China pumps
out). We must give our hard earned money to third world countries so they
can continue to squat in the mud and blame the Americans.

"Zootal" wrote in message
...

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:46:48 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote Re Global Warming and what
you can do to against it:


If there is global warming then it is a natural process not caused by
man.

Also a little warming will improve life for man, provide longer and
more widespread growing seasons, more food, more commerce, less fuel
usage, etc.

The scientists cannot be trusted, as they are too politically
motivated.

The local politicians cannot be trusted as they have a socialist
agenda, and GW is a convenient crisis to shift wealth to the govt.

Al Gore cannot be trusted as he has a company set up to profit greatly
from carbon trading, and he has a carbon footprint 50 times larger
than mine.

The world politicians cannot be trusted as they are just looking for
us (the US) to shovel money into their bananna republics or mini-
dictatorships. That money will not go to any climate cause at all, it
will be confiscated by the local dictators to further their regimes.

When China buys in, then I'll believe GW is really happening, China is
much smarter than us (the US) lately. On the "issue" of GW China can
be trusted, as they are the only skeptics.

Good post.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

In the 1960s scientists were predicting continued global cooling, as that
is what had been going on for a few decades. Some of them were actually
predicting the start of an ice age. In 1970 or so the globe started to
warm up again, and the global cooling hysteria ended. In the late 1970s,
top climate experts agreed on one thing - that their predictions were
unreliable, and we just didn't know enough to explain or predict global
warming/cooling. They were divided among whether the earth would warm,
cool, or stay the same. They just didn't know.

Today is the same. Climate experts cannot agree. Some say cooling, some
say warming, some say man-made warming, some say it is natural cycles. The
most recent warming trend appears to have stopped shortly after the year
2000, which seems to be consistent with the warming/cooling cycles that we
have seen going on for over 100 years. Now we are in a cooling trend again
(which none of the climate models can explain), but it hasn't cooled
enough, long enough, to really be significant. What nobody knows right
now, neither the scientists, nor the politicians, and most definitely not
the extremists, is if the earth will continue to cool, or if it will start
to warm up again.

It doesn't really matter what the temps do. We have a climate crisis and
we must save the planet (never mind that the extremists can't quite agree
on what the current crisis is...). And it is all the fault of George W.
Bush and the evil capitalist Americans (while ignoring how much CO2 China
pumps out). We must give our hard earned money to third world countries so
they can continue to squat in the mud and blame the Americans.


bs post of the year

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:29:55 -0800, .. wrote:

Quit smoking so you can live long enough to say "I told you so".

Dear All,
As you know global warming is endangering the future of life on the
planet. It will also affect us;
rising sea levels, dwindling water supplies, mass deaths due to heat
waves, stoppage of the gulfstream, which
brings milder climate to north of Europe, super hurricanes, less food
due to droughts are some of the effects.
As you also know global warming is produced due to CO2 emissions
coming from burning of fossil fuels. So what
can every single person do to reduce global warming ?


1) Insulation: Do you know that you can save 50% of heating energy
(and money) by insulation ? Especially in
the times the financial crisis, you can make the insulation cheaper
and save the money when oil, natural gas and
coal prices are higher due to higher demand. What needs to be
insulated ? Firstly the Roof, since warmer air
goes up, then the windows (tripple glass or at least dual glass and
shutters for additional insulation at night,
and in summer time), then the outer walls. Also small cracks, leaks in
weatherstrips etc should be eliminated.
An infrared inspection of your house for heat losses would be the best
way to find out what else can be done.
A wintergarden will help heating your house additionally in winter
time.

2) Using rechargable batteries instead of alkaline batteries, and
charge them during less demand ours like at night
will also save a lot of energy and money.

3) Lightning; the use of Compact fluorescent lamps instead of
traditioanl light bulbs will save 80% of energy, the
use of very new LED lamps will save even more.

4) Buying local. Most of the energy is spent for transportation of
imported goods, especially food. By buying local
made food you not only save a lot of energy, but also create more jobs
at home.

5) Heating; there are several way to save energy and money by changing
the heating method; you can use the free heat
of the nature by adding a solar thermal equipment to heat the water
for taking showers and also to heat your home.
Additionally you can use a heating pump, which funtions like a reverse
fridge; it takes the heat of the outside and
transfers it to your home. You use much much less energy to do this
(electricity to pump a liquid).

6) Your car; by buying a hybrid car you save 30% of fuel, by
converting your car to CNG (compressed natural gas) you
can save a lot of CO2, since CNG has much less carbon but more
hydrogen, which will result in water (CH4 instead of
C8H18). CNG will also result in much more energy output per mass. The
conversion is not very expensive. It is totally
save, since the storage has to resist a certain pressure.
Of course there are also other smaller things you have to consider:
- Each 60 pounds increases fuel consumption by 10%.
- Aggressive driving (speeding, rapid acceleration, and hard braking)
wastes gas. It can lower your highway gas mileage
33% and city mileage 5%.
- Drive at lowest and constant rpms; 2000 rpm are enough; you can save
up to 30%. Even a Porsche can be driven at the
4th gear at 20 mph and at the 6th gear at 50 mph with 2.5 times less
fuel consumption.
- Avoid high speeds. Driving 75 mph, rather than 65 mph, could cut
your fuel economy by 15%.
- Use air conditioning only when necessary
- Keep tires properly inflated and aligned to improve your gasoline
mileage by around 3.3%.
- Replace clogged air filters to improve gas mileage by as much as 10%
and protect your engine
- Combine errands into one trip. Several short trips, each one taken
from a cold start, can use twice as much fuel as
one trip covering the same distance when the engine is warm. Do not
forget that in the first mile your car uses 8
times more fuel, in the second mile 4 times and only after the
fourth mile it becomes normal

7) Buying A++ or A+++ equipments. The extra money you pay for this
will be back in 1-2 years. It will save a lot of CO2.

8) Try to save also energy at your job; you can do it by insulation,
more efficient processes, heat recovery, more
efficient pumps/engines, low temperature processses, material
saving, water savings, optimization, automatic turning
off of unnecessary energy using processes, control if some
processes are really necessary (the change of some
processes makes other processes sometimes unnecesarry on which
nobody has thought about).

9) Solar cells for your own home; at the moment solar cells are very
cheap since there is an overproduction. These cells
can operate a fridge for example.

Regards.

"Zootal" wrote in message
...

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:46:48 -0800 (PST), RickH
wrote Re Global Warming and what
you can do to against it:


If there is global warming then it is a natural process not caused by
man.

Also a little warming will improve life for man, provide longer and
more widespread growing seasons, more food, more commerce, less fuel
usage, etc.

The scientists cannot be trusted, as they are too politically
motivated.

The local politicians cannot be trusted as they have a socialist
agenda, and GW is a convenient crisis to shift wealth to the govt.

Al Gore cannot be trusted as he has a company set up to profit greatly
from carbon trading, and he has a carbon footprint 50 times larger
than mine.

The world politicians cannot be trusted as they are just looking for
us (the US) to shovel money into their bananna republics or mini-
dictatorships. That money will not go to any climate cause at all, it
will be confiscated by the local dictators to further their regimes.

When China buys in, then I'll believe GW is really happening, China is
much smarter than us (the US) lately. On the "issue" of GW China can
be trusted, as they are the only skeptics.

Good post.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

In the 1960s scientists were predicting continued global cooling, as that
is what had been going on for a few decades. Some of them were actually
predicting the start of an ice age. In 1970 or so the globe started to
warm up again, and the global cooling hysteria ended. In the late 1970s,
top climate experts agreed on one thing - that their predictions were
unreliable, and we just didn't know enough to explain or predict global
warming/cooling. They were divided among whether the earth would warm,
cool, or stay the same. They just didn't know.

Today is the same. Climate experts cannot agree. Some say cooling, some
say warming, some say man-made warming, some say it is natural cycles. The
most recent warming trend appears to have stopped shortly after the year
2000, which seems to be consistent with the warming/cooling cycles that we
have seen going on for over 100 years. Now we are in a cooling trend again
(which none of the climate models can explain), but it hasn't cooled
enough, long enough, to really be significant. What nobody knows right
now, neither the scientists, nor the politicians, and most definitely not
the extremists, is if the earth will continue to cool, or if it will start
to warm up again.

It doesn't really matter what the temps do. We have a climate crisis and
we must save the planet (never mind that the extremists can't quite agree
on what the current crisis is...). And it is all the fault of George W.
Bush and the evil capitalist Americans (while ignoring how much CO2 China
pumps out). We must give our hard earned money to third world countries so
they can continue to squat in the mud and blame the Americans.


Well said...Great post....

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:03:34 -0800, "Zootal"
wrote Re Global Warming and what
you can do to against it:

It doesn't really matter what the temps do. We have a climate crisis and we
must save the planet (never mind that the extremists can't quite agree on
what the current crisis is...). And it is all the fault of George W. Bush
and the evil capitalist Americans (while ignoring how much CO2 China pumps
out). We must give our hard earned money to third world countries so they
can continue to squat in the mud and blame the Americans.


Exactly.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

Heh Grumpy, see imbedded comments.

Grumpy wrote:
Think Green/Global Warming-2
a.. 2 days ago
b.. Post a comment


Global warming is not a joke I am very much puzzled with this cliché's

## GW is about as serious as a heart attack. The GW advocates would have us
return to pre-industrial revolution days when life was harsh, brutal, and
short.


Think Green/Global Warming

I am not educated or having any degree.

However our Law makers and scientist seems to me are missing
something here, perhaps I am exaggerating is it that we are not been
tolled a truth or is it they don't know better.

In recent months it was in the news how much CO2 we are generating
"and" how much we have reduced this pollutant gasses. However at same
time our atmosphere needless to say is getting much worse. The Ice
caps at Southern and Northern Pole are melting at much higher rate.

## No. Three ice caps at the South Pole are retreating, seven are growing.


In my opinion there is something ales that no one is addressing. As
it is said that we pouring CO2 into atmosphere which we are?

## So what? Virtually all the CO2 we're putting into the atmosphere was once
IN the atmosphere.


However did anyone ever took in consideration that we are also
depleting Oxygen out of atmosphere "Hello".

## No one has looked into this because it's not happening.

It is known fact that
when you add something to the spot you are also displacing something,
or some one, from that place, location, this can not be disputed it
is mother nature, like wise by removing something, someone from
particular area, place, spot, something will take that area space,
spot, regardless if it is in form of solids or gas, effects are the
same.

## Nonsense. Have you never packed a suitcase? All matter is compressible.

Now just maybe, and let me say again just maybe that it is not
as much that we are putting CO2 up there but that we are taking
Oxygen out of atmosphere and that CO2 and many other chemicals are
taking it space, location.

## Nope. The amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere is unchanged.


Now I can not suggest are gave any solution to above why this is
happening are even know if World Scientist are giving us a true or
correct numbers on such?

## It's NOT happening. Give it up.




However I would like to ask the Atmosphere Scientist and our
Government? Have any of them ever made any experimental test what
kind effect does CO2 have on Ice melting point and how fast will take
to melt (x) amount compare to Microwaves generated by our current
Appliances, Satellites, Broadcasting, Cell- phones ETC. and not
"accounting" for Military actions through out the world!

## CO2 does not melt ice caps. Neither does microwaves, radio waves, or
penguins walking around.


Presently we are "bombarding" our earth with powerful microwaves
Equivalent to Sun rays of such proportion that we are killing
ourselves. It is not that CO2 is a culprit of Global Warming but the
OXYGEN that we are depleting from the atmosphere. Is it CO2 good for
our health definitely not however there is other things that should
be taking in consideration and not focusing just one. In my opinion
we are proceeding, sorry correction we are continuing in direction of
disaster and no one is addressing these issues??????

## I give up. You are hopelessly lost in a world of your own making...

RickH wrote:


If there is global warming then it is a natural process not caused by
man.

Also a little warming will improve life for man, provide longer and
more widespread growing seasons, more food, more commerce, less fuel
usage, etc.

The scientists cannot be trusted, as they are too politically
motivated.

The local politicians cannot be trusted as they have a socialist
agenda, and GW is a convenient crisis to shift wealth to the govt.

Al Gore cannot be trusted as he has a company set up to profit greatly
from carbon trading, and he has a carbon footprint 50 times larger
than mine.

The world politicians cannot be trusted as they are just looking for
us (the US) to shovel money into their bananna republics or mini-
dictatorships. That money will not go to any climate cause at all, it
will be confiscated by the local dictators to further their regimes.

When China buys in, then I'll believe GW is really happening, China is
much smarter than us (the US) lately. On the "issue" of GW China can
be trusted, as they are the only skeptics.

Clear, cogent, concise, and convincing. Kudos.

On Dec 19, 8:12*am, Bill Waller wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:29:55 -0800 (PST), ".."

wrote:
Dear All,

GARBAGE CHOPPED!!!

Now, come and shovel the four inches of global warming off of my driveway..

Haven't you gotten the message, its not global warming any more it
CLIMATE CHANGE. The morons seem to think that we have had a uniform
temperature for the last few million years and are blown away when the
weather doesn't cooperate.

On Dec 19, 10:27*am, "Grumpy" wrote:

It is not that CO2 is a culprit of Global Warming but the OXYGEN that we are depleting from
the atmosphere. Is it CO2 good for our health, definitely not ......

Definitely wrong. CO2 is the basis for all life on this planet.
Without it there would be no conversion to oxygen by plants
(photosynthesis). Ever wonder why the dinosaurs were so big? There
was so much CO2 in our atmosphere that the plants were mass producing
oxygen and the oxygen ratio was double what it is today. Those big
dino muscles were the result of the high oxygen content.

I find it ridiculous that supposedly smart people are villainizing CO2
when it is so important to our survival. As long as we maintain our
plant life, it will control the CO2. Perhaps nature is melting the
ice caps to provide additional environment for plants as it did many
times in the past.

KC

Try to stay warm??

Some current news headlines:

Blizzard-like storm slams East; region snowed in - The Associated
Press

5 deaths blamed on East Coast snowstorm - Boston Globe

Major Snowstorm Disrupts Travel, Shopping in Northeast US - Bloomberg

Eurostar trains suspended as cold weather continues - BBC News

Snow socks Eastern states, halts travel - Los Angeles Times


and on and on ...
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

RobertPatrick wrote:
Caesar Romano wrote in
:

Try to stay warm??

Some current news headlines:

Blizzard-like storm slams East; region snowed in - The Associated
Press

5 deaths blamed on East Coast snowstorm - Boston Globe

Major Snowstorm Disrupts Travel, Shopping in Northeast US - Bloomberg

Eurostar trains suspended as cold weather continues - BBC News

Snow socks Eastern states, halts travel - Los Angeles Times


and on and on ...

I never could quite understand the Anti global warming folks. Then I
watched Jesee Ventura's Conspiracy show. OIC, now. It's all about some
fat cats making money to control the world. Don't ask me to explain it,
but I understood why when I watched it.

There was a good program on PBS last night, moderated by, of all people,
by Ben Stein. Not about GW, but about the politics of science vs.
religion in the creation/evolution debate. Got seriously into the issue
of politics in science and the difficulty of exploring both as related
issues. Very interesting, didn't take sides, but dug deeply into the
reasons of many for their views.

HeyBub: I have read your imbedded comments and sorry to say my friend
that you need to spend few more years on this planet or grow up some,
then and only then I will observed your comments, because as is you are
little short.



"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Heh Grumpy, see imbedded comments.

Grumpy wrote:
Think Green/Global Warming-2
a.. 2 days ago
b.. Post a comment


Global warming is not a joke I am very much puzzled with this cliché's

## GW is about as serious as a heart attack. The GW advocates would have
us return to pre-industrial revolution days when life was harsh, brutal,
and short.


Think Green/Global Warming

I am not educated or having any degree.

However our Law makers and scientist seems to me are missing
something here, perhaps I am exaggerating is it that we are not been
tolled a truth or is it they don't know better.

In recent months it was in the news how much CO2 we are generating
"and" how much we have reduced this pollutant gasses. However at same
time our atmosphere needless to say is getting much worse. The Ice
caps at Southern and Northern Pole are melting at much higher rate.

## No. Three ice caps at the South Pole are retreating, seven are growing.


In my opinion there is something ales that no one is addressing. As
it is said that we pouring CO2 into atmosphere which we are?

## So what? Virtually all the CO2 we're putting into the atmosphere was
once IN the atmosphere.


However did anyone ever took in consideration that we are also
depleting Oxygen out of atmosphere "Hello".

## No one has looked into this because it's not happening.

It is known fact that
when you add something to the spot you are also displacing something,
or some one, from that place, location, this can not be disputed it
is mother nature, like wise by removing something, someone from
particular area, place, spot, something will take that area space,
spot, regardless if it is in form of solids or gas, effects are the
same.

## Nonsense. Have you never packed a suitcase? All matter is compressible.

Now just maybe, and let me say again just maybe that it is not
as much that we are putting CO2 up there but that we are taking
Oxygen out of atmosphere and that CO2 and many other chemicals are
taking it space, location.

## Nope. The amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere is unchanged.


Now I can not suggest are gave any solution to above why this is
happening are even know if World Scientist are giving us a true or
correct numbers on such?

## It's NOT happening. Give it up.




However I would like to ask the Atmosphere Scientist and our
Government? Have any of them ever made any experimental test what
kind effect does CO2 have on Ice melting point and how fast will take
to melt (x) amount compare to Microwaves generated by our current
Appliances, Satellites, Broadcasting, Cell- phones ETC. and not
"accounting" for Military actions through out the world!

## CO2 does not melt ice caps. Neither does microwaves, radio waves, or
penguins walking around.


Presently we are "bombarding" our earth with powerful microwaves
Equivalent to Sun rays of such proportion that we are killing
ourselves. It is not that CO2 is a culprit of Global Warming but the
OXYGEN that we are depleting from the atmosphere. Is it CO2 good for
our health definitely not however there is other things that should
be taking in consideration and not focusing just one. In my opinion
we are proceeding, sorry correction we are continuing in direction of
disaster and no one is addressing these issues??????

## I give up. You are hopelessly lost in a world of your own making...

On Dec 20, 3:47*am, RobertPatrick wrote:
Caesar Romano wrote :





Try to stay warm??

Some current news headlines:

Blizzard-like storm slams East; region snowed in - The Associated
Press

5 deaths blamed on East Coast snowstorm - Boston Globe

Major Snowstorm Disrupts Travel, Shopping in Northeast US - Bloomberg

Eurostar trains suspended as cold weather continues - BBC News

Snow socks Eastern states, halts travel - Los Angeles Times

and on and on ...

I never could quite understand the Anti global warming folks. *Then I
watched Jesee Ventura's Conspiracy show. *OIC, now. *It's all about some
fat cats making money to control the world. *Don't ask me to explain it,
but I understood why when I watched it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In order to support the "Global Warming" or even the "Climate Change"
hysteria of the day one has to believe that either is a recent
occurance and can be controlled by man. Historical evidence and just
plain life experience totally disproves both. Is the earth warming?
Possibly yes but is it out of the ordinary, has it just started or has
it occured before and are we in a cycle that started a long time ago?
Finally, can or should we try to alter it and to what extent?
Personally, I don't see it being all that bad and may in fact be much
better than the alternative. Why not look at adapting to the change
instead of trying to turn back the clock to something resembling the
18th century?

On Dec 19, 10:08*pm, KC wrote:
On Dec 19, 10:27*am, "Grumpy" wrote:

*It is not that CO2 is a culprit of Global Warming but the OXYGEN that we are depleting from
the atmosphere. Is it CO2 good for our health, definitely not ......

Definitely wrong. *CO2 is the basis for all life on this planet.
Without it there would be no conversion to oxygen by plants
(photosynthesis). *Ever wonder why the dinosaurs were so big? *There
was so much CO2 in our atmosphere that the plants were mass producing
oxygen and the oxygen ratio was double what it is today. *Those big
dino muscles were the result of the high oxygen content.

I find it ridiculous that supposedly smart people are villainizing CO2
when it is so important to our survival. *As long as we maintain our
plant life, it will control the CO2. *Perhaps nature is melting the
ice caps to provide additional environment for plants as it did many
times in the past.

KC

They must find a villian in order to justify all their schemes to stop
the global warming or climate change. They must blame CO2 because it
is created by the burning of fosil fuels that they want to bring down
so they can build their own money making industries.

IT"S ALL ABOUT MONEY$$$$$$$$$$$$

Grumpy wrote:
HeyBub: I have read your imbedded comments and sorry to say my friend
that you need to spend few more years on this planet or grow up some,
then and only then I will observed your comments, because as is you
are little short.


Thank you for your reasoned and well-thought out rebuttals to the positions
taken.

No, wait...

Ah, I see. "Attack the messenger instead of the message. Right."

IT'S NOT ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

It's about -USING- AGW/Climate Change as a method for the socialists to
grab power,particularly...a way to get around the US Constitution!

(and "progressives" were(and still are) bitching about Bush "trampling the
Constitution";the naive fools haven't seen ANYTHING yet....)

It's about "redistribution of wealth",from "wealthy countries"(the US) to
the 3rd world nations,via the UN. They are already arguing over who gets
the money.

and guess who is going to benefit the most?
the ones who make the rules and dole out the money.
Much of the money is going to end up in their pockets and their friends
pockets.


It's a HUGE SCAM.

Don't be a sucker.


AlGORE sure hasn't lowered HIS standard of living.
And he's sure is making a lot of money promoting AGW.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

"BobR" wrote in message
...
On Dec 19, 10:08 pm, KC wrote:
On Dec 19, 10:27 am, "Grumpy" wrote:

It is not that CO2 is a culprit of Global Warming but the OXYGEN that we
are depleting from
the atmosphere. Is it CO2 good for our health, definitely not ......

Definitely wrong. CO2 is the basis for all life on this planet.
Without it there would be no conversion to oxygen by plants
(photosynthesis). Ever wonder why the dinosaurs were so big? There
was so much CO2 in our atmosphere that the plants were mass producing
oxygen and the oxygen ratio was double what it is today. Those big
dino muscles were the result of the high oxygen content.

I find it ridiculous that supposedly smart people are villainizing CO2
when it is so important to our survival. As long as we maintain our
plant life, it will control the CO2. Perhaps nature is melting the
ice caps to provide additional environment for plants as it did many
times in the past.

KC

They must find a villian in order to justify all their schemes to stop
the global warming or climate change. They must blame CO2 because it
is created by the burning of fosil fuels that they want to bring down
so they can build their own money making industries.

IT"S ALL ABOUT MONEY$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yup most of these scientist are working on grants
we can not expect them, to bite the hand that feed them

In article , Paul Oman wrote:

SNIP to here

few if any supporters of GW can tell you the amount of c02 in the
atmosphere, a basic fact everyone should know. The answer is 0.38%.

Make that 385 parts per million by volume, as of 2008.

Double that number and you still don't have anything close to 1%. And
most c02 is stored in the oceans, which are huge buffers for all sorts
of chemicals. Doesn't it make sense that the system can adjust to a 1/4%
change in one of the gasses in the air? Also, isn't it more likely that
changes in c02 mostly from the vast ocean store house of c02. I suspect
most GW supporters live in big, crowded cities.

The change is not from CO2 gassing out of the ocean. About 2/3 of the
CO2 produced by fossil fuel combustion is going into the atmosphere, and
about 1/3 is going into the ocean.

The atmospheric CO2 gain is from fossil carbon - that can be tracked by
ratio of C14 to C12 isotopes.

- Don Klipstein )

KC wrote:
On Dec 19, 10:27 am, "Grumpy" wrote:

It is not that CO2 is a culprit of Global Warming but the OXYGEN that we are depleting from
the atmosphere. Is it CO2 good for our health, definitely not ......

Definitely wrong. CO2 is the basis for all life on this planet.
Without it there would be no conversion to oxygen by plants
(photosynthesis). Ever wonder why the dinosaurs were so big? There
was so much CO2 in our atmosphere that the plants were mass producing
oxygen and the oxygen ratio was double what it is today. Those big
dino muscles were the result of the high oxygen content.

I find it ridiculous that supposedly smart people are villainizing CO2
when it is so important to our survival. As long as we maintain our
plant life, it will control the CO2. Perhaps nature is melting the
ice caps to provide additional environment for plants as it did many
times in the past.

KC

Are we not "carbon based" lifeforms? *snicker*

TDD

Grumpy wrote:

I find it ridiculous that supposedly smart people are villainizing
CO2 when it is so important to our survival. As long as we maintain
our plant life, it will control the CO2. Perhaps nature is melting
the ice caps to provide additional environment for plants as it did
many times in the past.


They must find a villian in order to justify all their schemes to stop
the global warming or climate change. They must blame CO2 because it
is created by the burning of fosil fuels that they want to bring down
so they can build their own money making industries.

Eric Hoffer discovered several common traits about mass movements. The one
that affirms your observation is this: "A mass movement can exist without a
god, but it will always fail without a devil. A mass movement must have
something to hate."


IT"S ALL ABOUT MONEY$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yup most of these scientist are working on grants
we can not expect them, to bite the hand that feed them

Not entirely. Your point is true about the scientists, but not for the
rank-and-file. Again, referring to Hoffer, it's the people. People join mass
movements to give meaning to their otherwise meaningless lives - the goal of
the movement is almost immaterial. People join, THEN adopt the tenets of the
group. Further, membership in mass movements is interchangeable - whether
it's "Burn the bra," "Save the Whales," or "Outlaw Walmart," the SAME people
belong to all three groups. It's the membership itself that's important -
not the goal.

Admittedly, there's sometimes a higher purpose. I, personally, participate
in several movements to pick up women.

On Dec 22, 7:41*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Grumpy wrote:

I find it ridiculous that supposedly smart people are villainizing
CO2 when it is so important to our survival. As long as we maintain
our plant life, it will control the CO2. Perhaps nature is melting
the ice caps to provide additional environment for plants as it did
many times in the past.

They must find a villian in order to justify all their schemes to stop
the global warming or climate change. *They must blame CO2 because it
is created by the burning of fosil fuels that they want to bring down
so they can build their own money making industries.

Eric Hoffer discovered several common traits about mass movements. The one
that affirms your observation is this: "A mass movement can exist without a
god, but it will always fail without a devil. A mass movement must have
something to hate."



IT"S ALL ABOUT MONEY$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yup most of these scientist are working on grants
we can not expect them, to bite the hand that feed them

Not entirely. Your point is true about the scientists, but not for the
rank-and-file. Again, referring to Hoffer, it's the people. People join mass
movements to give meaning to their otherwise meaningless lives - the goal of
the movement is almost immaterial. People join, THEN adopt the tenets of the
group. Further, membership in mass movements is interchangeable - whether
it's "Burn the bra," "Save the Whales," or "Outlaw Walmart," the SAME people
belong to all three groups. It's the membership itself that's important -
not the goal.


Which explains most of the demonstrations revolving around the Climate
Change conference. Most of the participants don't really have a clue
about the climate or the changes in climate they protest against, they
just want to be a part of some mass movement. What I find disgusting
is how the media does everything possible to fuel the process for
their own purposes, anything for a scoop and ratings. Seems that each
participant in these mass movements has their own agenda that has
little to do with the good of the world.

Not entirely. Your point is true about the scientists, but not for the
rank-and-file. Again, referring to Hoffer, it's the people. People join
mass
movements to give meaning to their otherwise meaningless lives - the
goal of
the movement is almost immaterial. People join, THEN adopt the tenets of
the
group. Further, membership in mass movements is interchangeable -
whether
it's "Burn the bra," "Save the Whales," or "Outlaw Walmart," the SAME
people
belong to all three groups. It's the membership itself that's
important -
not the goal.


Which explains most of the demonstrations revolving around the Climate
Change conference. Most of the participants don't really have a clue
about the climate or the changes in climate they protest against, they
just want to be a part of some mass movement. What I find disgusting
is how the media does everything possible to fuel the process for
their own purposes, anything for a scoop and ratings. Seems that each
participant in these mass movements has their own agenda that has
little to do with the good of the world.


Several years I worked out at the Nevada Test Site, where we were doing
nuclear weapons testing. And across the highway from the main entrance there
would usually be a bunch of protesters. They had tents, porta potties, the
whole nine yards. And if you were to go and talk to them, you would find
that most of them didn't know anything at all about the pros and cons of
nuclear weapons. They were there because they were being fed.

When we stopped testing nuclear weapons in the early 90s, the company
funding the protestors went bankrupt because there was no longer anything to
protest. The protesters themselves, being mostly ignorant sheep, dispersed
and went back home to the corner they lived on or bridge they lived under,
or the soup kitchen, etc.

Zootal wrote:

Which explains most of the demonstrations revolving around the
Climate Change conference. Most of the participants don't really
have a clue about the climate or the changes in climate they protest
against, they just want to be a part of some mass movement. What I
find disgusting is how the media does everything possible to fuel
the process for their own purposes, anything for a scoop and
ratings. Seems that each participant in these mass movements has
their own agenda that has little to do with the good of the world.


Several years I worked out at the Nevada Test Site, where we were
doing nuclear weapons testing. And across the highway from the main
entrance there would usually be a bunch of protesters. They had
tents, porta potties, the whole nine yards. And if you were to go and
talk to them, you would find that most of them didn't know anything
at all about the pros and cons of nuclear weapons. They were there
because they were being fed.
When we stopped testing nuclear weapons in the early 90s, the company
funding the protestors went bankrupt because there was no longer
anything to protest. The protesters themselves, being mostly ignorant
sheep, dispersed and went back home to the corner they lived on or
bridge they lived under, or the soup kitchen, etc.

I doubt they retired. They assuredly joined another movement. Wasn't that
about the time of "Burn the Bra" or "Save the Star-Faced Mole" or somesuch?

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Zootal wrote:

Which explains most of the demonstrations revolving around the
Climate Change conference. Most of the participants don't really
have a clue about the climate or the changes in climate they protest
against, they just want to be a part of some mass movement. What I
find disgusting is how the media does everything possible to fuel
the process for their own purposes, anything for a scoop and
ratings. Seems that each participant in these mass movements has
their own agenda that has little to do with the good of the world.


Several years I worked out at the Nevada Test Site, where we were
doing nuclear weapons testing. And across the highway from the main
entrance there would usually be a bunch of protesters. They had
tents, porta potties, the whole nine yards. And if you were to go and
talk to them, you would find that most of them didn't know anything
at all about the pros and cons of nuclear weapons. They were there
because they were being fed.
When we stopped testing nuclear weapons in the early 90s, the company
funding the protestors went bankrupt because there was no longer
anything to protest. The protesters themselves, being mostly ignorant
sheep, dispersed and went back home to the corner they lived on or
bridge they lived under, or the soup kitchen, etc.

I doubt they retired. They assuredly joined another movement. Wasn't that
about the time of "Burn the Bra" or "Save the Star-Faced Mole" or
somesuch?

I honestly don't know where they ended up in later years, but at the time
there were a whole bunch of protestors with nothing to protest and nowhere
to go. They had a pretty good size group of people for a while there, and it
all fell apart when we stopped testing nukes.

On Dec 22, 4:43*pm, "Zootal" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m...





Zootal wrote:

Which explains most of the demonstrations revolving around the
Climate Change conference. *Most of the participants don't really
have a clue about the climate or the changes in climate they protest
against, they just want to be a part of some mass movement. *What I
find disgusting is how the media does everything possible to fuel
the process for their own purposes, anything for a scoop and
ratings. *Seems that each participant in these mass movements has
their own agenda that has little to do with the good of the world.

Several years I worked out at the Nevada Test Site, where we were
doing nuclear weapons testing. And across the highway from the main
entrance there would usually be a bunch of protesters. They had
tents, porta potties, the whole nine yards. And if you were to go and
talk to them, you would find that most of them didn't know anything
at all about the pros and cons of nuclear weapons. They were there
because they were being fed.
When we stopped testing nuclear weapons in the early 90s, the company
funding the protestors went bankrupt because there was no longer
anything to protest. The protesters themselves, being mostly ignorant
sheep, dispersed and went back home to the corner they lived on or
bridge they lived under, or the soup kitchen, etc.

I doubt they retired. They assuredly joined another movement. Wasn't that
about the time of "Burn the Bra" or "Save the Star-Faced Mole" or
somesuch?

I honestly don't know where they ended up in later years, but at the time
there were a whole bunch of protestors with nothing to protest and nowhere
to go. They had a pretty good size group of people for a while there, and it
all fell apart when we stopped testing nukes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hell, they probably patted themselves on the back for forcing the end
of testing and moved on to another ignorant protest. I just wish we
could have about 10 years of another mini-ice age with bitter cold
winters and cool summers so they could all start protesting the
"GLOBAL COOLING" again. I hate COLD weather and can't wait for more
warming.

"BobR" wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 4:43 pm, "Zootal" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m...





Zootal wrote:

Which explains most of the demonstrations revolving around the
Climate Change conference. Most of the participants don't really
have a clue about the climate or the changes in climate they protest
against, they just want to be a part of some mass movement. What I
find disgusting is how the media does everything possible to fuel
the process for their own purposes, anything for a scoop and
ratings. Seems that each participant in these mass movements has
their own agenda that has little to do with the good of the world.

Several years I worked out at the Nevada Test Site, where we were
doing nuclear weapons testing. And across the highway from the main
entrance there would usually be a bunch of protesters. They had
tents, porta potties, the whole nine yards. And if you were to go and
talk to them, you would find that most of them didn't know anything
at all about the pros and cons of nuclear weapons. They were there
because they were being fed.
When we stopped testing nuclear weapons in the early 90s, the company
funding the protestors went bankrupt because there was no longer
anything to protest. The protesters themselves, being mostly ignorant
sheep, dispersed and went back home to the corner they lived on or
bridge they lived under, or the soup kitchen, etc.

I doubt they retired. They assuredly joined another movement. Wasn't
that
about the time of "Burn the Bra" or "Save the Star-Faced Mole" or
somesuch?

I honestly don't know where they ended up in later years, but at the time
there were a whole bunch of protestors with nothing to protest and nowhere
to go. They had a pretty good size group of people for a while there, and
it
all fell apart when we stopped testing nukes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hell, they probably patted themselves on the back for forcing the end
of testing and moved on to another ignorant protest. I just wish we
could have about 10 years of another mini-ice age with bitter cold
winters and cool summers so they could all start protesting the
"GLOBAL COOLING" again. I hate COLD weather and can't wait for more
warming.

I'd like to see the oceans rise ten or twenty feet. Get rid of a bunch of
coastal cities that we would probably be better off without. And think of
the boost to the economy as the new beachfront property is now worth a
fortune! People would buy and sell property like crazy, build like crazy.
Then there would be the effort to reclaim goods from flooded cities.

Think of all the jobs it would create!