On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:06:39 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Larry Fishel wrote:
Several comments:

I've always wanted to have some signs printed up saying "Trespassers
will be eaten."

On the serious side:

In many (most) areas of the U.S., the Castle Doctrine only applies to
the inside of your house/trailer/car, not all of your property.

In many areas, you can legally shoot someone trespassing on your
property, but ONLY if you have very specifically worded signs at
minimum intervals around your property. Using your creatively worded
signs won't cut it legally.

Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never justified.

You should read a little about Joe Horn. I wish I had him for a
neighbor.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...q=f&oq=&aq i=

On Oct 27, 3:06*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? *We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Steve

After a break-in at a similarly remote property, I wanted to put up a
sign that read
"Friends and invited guests are welcome. All others are target
practice".

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:

I've always wanted to have some signs printed up saying "Trespassers
will be eaten."

On the serious side:

In many (most) areas of the U.S., the Castle Doctrine only applies to
the inside of your house/trailer/car, not all of your property.

In many areas, you can legally shoot someone trespassing on your
property, but ONLY if you have very specifically worded signs at
minimum intervals around your property. Using your creatively worded
signs won't cut it legally.
Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

You should read a little about Joe Horn. I wish I had him for a
neighbor.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...q=f&oq=&aq i=


Robbery, Breaking and Entering, or whatever the perpetrators would have
been charged with if they had lived is *not* an offense punishable by
death.

I find it difficult to believe that even if the *cops* had been called
and had witnessed the break-in or saw the perps exiting the building
carrying the loot, they would have shot to kill.

Perce

In Florida, you can shoot someone if you are threatened. Does not have
to be on one's own property.

I have a sign on the front door.
DAY SLEEPER
DOORBELL HAS BEEN DISABLED
QUIETLY LEAVE PACKAGES ON BACK PORCH

On Oct 27, 6:06*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? *We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Steve

Metspitzer wrote in
:

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:06:39 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Larry Fishel wrote:
Several comments:

I've always wanted to have some signs printed up saying "Trespassers
will be eaten."

On the serious side:

In many (most) areas of the U.S., the Castle Doctrine only applies
to the inside of your house/trailer/car, not all of your property.

In many areas, you can legally shoot someone trespassing on your
property, but ONLY if you have very specifically worded signs at
minimum intervals around your property. Using your creatively worded
signs won't cut it legally.

Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?


You should read a little about Joe Horn. I wish I had him for a
neighbor.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...x-a&rls=org.mo
zilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=uFG&num=100&q=joe+horne+texas+pro tect+neigh
bor%27s+property&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=





--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:

I've always wanted to have some signs printed up saying
"Trespassers will be eaten."

On the serious side:

In many (most) areas of the U.S., the Castle Doctrine only applies
to the inside of your house/trailer/car, not all of your property.

In many areas, you can legally shoot someone trespassing on your
property, but ONLY if you have very specifically worded signs at
minimum intervals around your property. Using your creatively
worded signs won't cut it legally.
Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

You should read a little about Joe Horn. I wish I had him for a
neighbor.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...q=f&oq=&aq i=

Robbery, Breaking and Entering, or whatever the perpetrators would
have been charged with if they had lived is *not* an offense
punishable by death.
I find it difficult to believe that even if the *cops* had been called
and had witnessed the break-in or saw the perps exiting the building
carrying the loot, they would have shot to kill.


You are correct in that the penalty imposed by the state for robbery or
burglary does not include the death penalty. However, here we're talking
about the prevention or apprehension done by non-governmental citizens.


Texas Penal Code Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land
or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under
Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is
immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary,
robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal
mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing
burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from
escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other
means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the
land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of
death or serious bodily injury.

Texas Penal Code Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY.

A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the
circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be
justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to
protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes
attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible,
movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or
property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property;
or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly
force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the
actor, or is under the actor's care.

Remember, this is TEXAS, not some pussy-whipped, left-coast, malfunctioning
state.

Jim Yanik wrote:

Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?


Good question. The question that goes to the police, the prosecutor, and,
perhaps ultimately, to the jury is: "Would a reasonable person in the same
or similar circumstances have concluded the trespasser was a threat?"

If the trespasser is in MY bedroom at 3:00 a.m., wearing a mask and armed
with a chainsaw, each of the above evaluators would probably tilt in one
direction. If, however, the deceased is a letter-carrier with a
signature-required letter in one hand and my door-knocker gripped in the
other, the decision might tip in the other way.

On the situations that fall between these two extremes, its probably best to
shoot first and tell the cops: "He screamed he was going to kill me!"

Actually, it's probably better to tell the cops nothing. And there's no
requirement that you even HAVE to even CALL the cops. Maybe after the ball
game...

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:42:47 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?

LMAO. No, but I can read body language.

My meter reader hops and skips down the road.

HeyBub wrote:
Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
SteveB wrote:
Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We
are getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural
properties.
I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real
bullets, but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

The problem (rare) with witty signs is that they may come back to
bite you, especially when viewed in a different context (such as
your trial for manslaughter).

Prosecution: "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you have seen ample
evidence of premeditation on the part of the defendant. He freely
admits to erecting signs on his property 'Warning, trespassers will
be shot!' He then hid, like a spider, biding his time, until a child
or fireman or innocent traveler entered his property so he could
kill them with assumed impunity... You need to send a message to the
would-be vigilantes in our community that taking the law into their
own hands will not be tolerated!..." Perhaps a better sign would simply
be a recitation of the 'Castle
Doctrine' law - sometimes known as the 'Make My Day' law - in your
jurisdiction (if you have such a law):

"Warning! State law allows the owner of this property to presume
harmful intent on the part of intruders. Such threats may be met,
under law, by the use of deadly force. Any resulting death will
automatically be ruled a 'Justifiable Homicide.' "


NRA recommends not using reloads for self defense for same reason.
Prosecution will argue that you made reloads to kill people.
You should buy commercial ammo to kill people

And even then, be careful. When presented to a jury, there's a difference
between "Teflon-Coated Black Rhino Atomic-Devestator Fulminating
Fragmentation Exploding Shells" and "Glaser Safty Ammunition." (The latter
is a real bullet. It is "frangible" in that it disintegrates into dozens of
pieces when it hits flesh, er, the target, thereby preventing ricochetes and
over-penetration.)

"Yes, I used Glaser in my self-defense weapon because I didn't want my
bullet to go completely through the horrid, horrid man who was terrorizing
my family and continue through the wall and into the house next door and
perhaps injuring an innocent baby asleep in its crib, secure in the
knowledge that he was loved and protected by doting parents..."



My neighbor has one of these Protected by Smith and Wesson signs:

http://www.smithwessonsecuritydealer.com/

and said he was getting their alarm services. Maybe all he has is the
sign and a S&W,

mm wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:06:19 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural properties.

I don't know, but in NYC I used to see "Don't even think of parking
here."

That's probably not nasty enough.
I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Steve



'Armed Wanna-be Sniper Hiding Quietly in Bushes'

Douglas Johnson wrote:
Thomas wrote:

Get a real security system. They come with a real sign. By your
description of the problem it is for real. Protect yourself the right
way, the real way.

You think so? Average response time in Dallas, Texas for a Priority 1 police
call is 7 minutes. Must burglars are in and out in 5. A burglar alarm is NOT a
Priority 1 call. 20 minutes, maybe? They'll be there in time to take the
burglary report. -- Doug

They still come out for burglary calls in your town? I'm in a tiny tiny
suburb of a small town, and I have trouble even getting them to take a
phone report. They don't even pretend to investigate.

--
aem sends...

Tony wrote:
John Grabowski wrote:

" Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural
properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real
bullets, but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.


*What makes you think that these people who break into homes can
read? Many years ago when I was working on a house in an exclusive
area of Los Angeles I noticed every day that one home always had a
police car parked in its driveway in the same spot. It took me a few
weeks to realize that it was just a scarecrow.

Funny, just the last couple weeks here the local cops have been leaving
"scarecrow" police cars parked all over town.

Sounds like your town needs to hold a vehicle auction, if their fleet
has that many spares. In my younger days, I'd have been tempted to get a
dozen buddies, and pick it up and turn it around.

--
aem sends...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "SteveB"
wrote:
Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural
properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real
bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Google for them... I saw one once that said

Trespassers will be shot.
Survivors will be shot again.

Looked like a commercially-made sign, not a homemade job. Must be
available
somewhere....


I bought mine at a home improvement expo a few years ago. I have it posted
on my patio, but not out front. It's metal, with white background and red
lettering. :-)

Cheri

Van Chocstraw wrote:
SteveB wrote:
Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural
properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real
bullets, but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Steve

Just impale them on a pike and display'em out front. Should discourage
others.

Even better, you can buy fake corpses over the interweb.
Impale it on a pike high up with a sign reading "Former
Trespasser".

http://www.customcreatures.com/gallery.htm

TDD

In article , "SteveB" wrote:
Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Google for them... I saw one once that said

Trespassers will be shot.
Survivors will be shot again.

Looked like a commercially-made sign, not a homemade job. Must be available
somewhere....

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:06:19 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Steve


BIG red letters: "Be aware of Invisibility"

Or, "You are NOW in range" (target symbol in the center of the "O")

So, did you have a talk with this prowler and that is how word got
out?

I like what these guys have come up with.

http://www.paintballsentry.com/

TDD

In article ,
Oren wrote:



Think TEXAS!

Joe Horn solved an Immigration problem at the same time AND those shot
were not even on his property.

He told the 911 what he was going to do, and then did it. Good for
him.

FWIW, he regrets the choice he made at the time. It is wise to make
choices about the circumstances under which you will and will not shoot
someone, before you purchase the gun. The heat of the moment is not the
time to make well-reasoned choices.

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:20:29 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:



Think TEXAS!

Joe Horn solved an Immigration problem at the same time AND those shot
were not even on his property.

He told the 911 what he was going to do, and then did it. Good for
him.

FWIW, he regrets the choice he made at the time. It is wise to make
choices about the circumstances under which you will and will not shoot
someone, before you purchase the gun. The heat of the moment is not the
time to make well-reasoned choices.

Check!

Fire now and answer questions later...

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:06:19 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural
properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real
bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Steve


BIG red letters: "Be aware of Invisibility"

Or, "You are NOW in range" (target symbol in the center of the "O")

So, did you have a talk with this prowler and that is how word got
out?

No. In other ways.

I think it is better than just a homemade sign. My security system is
so loud it will make you vomit before you find it. Anyone who trips it
is going to consider a softer target.

Loud works. But what's loud? We had a bunch of rain in Cen. TX. Wirtz
dam makes Lake LBJ, about an hour west of Austin. They opened the flood
gates Monday evening. We live about ½-3/4 mile from the dam, no line of
sight, property between us is wooded. When the horn warning of the opening
of the gates went off, it was disorienting.
Wonder how the people felt that have line of sight and ¼ mile distance.

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:42:47 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?

LMAO. No, but I can read body language.

My meter reader hops and skips down the road.

While you're yelling: "Dance, pilgrim!" ?

Cheri wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "SteveB"
wrote:
Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We
are getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural
properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real
bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Google for them... I saw one once that said

Trespassers will be shot.
Survivors will be shot again.

Looked like a commercially-made sign, not a homemade job. Must be
available
somewhere....


I bought mine at a home improvement expo a few years ago. I have it
posted on my patio, but not out front. It's metal, with white
background and red lettering. :-)


TRESPASSERS WELCOME!
My gay boarder is lonely

In article ,
aemeijers wrote:


Sounds like your town needs to hold a vehicle auction, if their fleet
has that many spares. In my younger days, I'd have been tempted to get a
dozen buddies, and pick it up and turn it around.

They do that around here quite a bit. There is generally a few weeks
lag between the time the car is "retired" and the next auction. So, they
scarecrow them out so they don't take up space in the PD parking lots.

--
To find that place where the rats don't race
and the phones don't ring at all.
If once, you've slept on an island.
Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
: They still come out for burglary calls in your town? I'm in a tiny tiny
: suburb of a small town, and I have trouble even getting them to take a
: phone report. They don't even pretend to investigate.

In my little town of 3500, the police department closes at 5pm and on
weekends. Calls are taken by an answering machine.

Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
SteveB wrote:
Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We
are getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very
rural properties.
I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots
real bullets, but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

The problem (rare) with witty signs is that they may come back to
bite you, especially when viewed in a different context (such as
your trial for manslaughter).

Prosecution: "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you have seen ample
evidence of premeditation on the part of the defendant. He freely
admits to erecting signs on his property 'Warning, trespassers will
be shot!' He then hid, like a spider, biding his time, until a
child or fireman or innocent traveler entered his property so he
could kill them with assumed impunity... You need to send a message to
the would-be vigilantes in our community that taking the law into
their own hands will not be tolerated!..." Perhaps a better sign
would simply be a recitation of the 'Castle
Doctrine' law - sometimes known as the 'Make My Day' law - in your
jurisdiction (if you have such a law):

"Warning! State law allows the owner of this property to presume
harmful intent on the part of intruders. Such threats may be met,
under law, by the use of deadly force. Any resulting death will
automatically be ruled a 'Justifiable Homicide.' "


NRA recommends not using reloads for self defense for same reason.
Prosecution will argue that you made reloads to kill people.
You should buy commercial ammo to kill people

And even then, be careful. When presented to a jury, there's a
difference between "Teflon-Coated Black Rhino Atomic-Devestator
Fulminating Fragmentation Exploding Shells" and "Glaser Safty
Ammunition." (The latter is a real bullet. It is "frangible" in
that it disintegrates into dozens of pieces when it hits flesh, er,
the target, thereby preventing ricochetes and over-penetration.)

"Yes, I used Glaser in my self-defense weapon because I didn't want
my bullet to go completely through the horrid, horrid man who was
terrorizing my family and continue through the wall and into the
house next door and perhaps injuring an innocent baby asleep in its
crib, secure in the knowledge that he was loved and protected by
doting parents..."

My neighbor has one of these Protected by Smith and Wesson signs:

http://www.smithwessonsecuritydealer.com/

and said he was getting their alarm services. Maybe all he has is the
sign and a S&W,

The signs have been around way longer than the company, I'm sure. Sounds like a
burglary invitation to me. Guns are theft bait for sure.

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:20:29 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:



Think TEXAS!

Joe Horn solved an Immigration problem at the same time AND those
shot were not even on his property.

He told the 911 what he was going to do, and then did it. Good for
him.

FWIW, he regrets the choice he made at the time. It is wise to make
choices about the circumstances under which you will and will not
shoot someone, before you purchase the gun. The heat of the moment
is not the time to make well-reasoned choices.

Check!

Fire now and answer questions later...

Glad you're not my neighbor.

HeyBub wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:

Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?


Good question. The question that goes to the police, the prosecutor,
and, perhaps ultimately, to the jury is: "Would a reasonable person
in the same or similar circumstances have concluded the trespasser
was a threat?"
If the trespasser is in MY bedroom at 3:00 a.m., wearing a mask and
armed with a chainsaw, each of the above evaluators would probably
tilt in one direction. If, however, the deceased is a letter-carrier
with a signature-required letter in one hand and my door-knocker
gripped in the other, the decision might tip in the other way.

On the situations that fall between these two extremes, its probably
best to shoot first and tell the cops: "He screamed he was going to
kill me!"
Actually, it's probably better to tell the cops nothing. And there's
no requirement that you even HAVE to even CALL the cops. Maybe after
the ball game...

Let us know how that works out for you.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Oren wrote:



Think TEXAS!

Joe Horn solved an Immigration problem at the same time AND those
shot were not even on his property.

He told the 911 what he was going to do, and then did it. Good for
him.

FWIW, he regrets the choice he made at the time. It is wise to make
choices about the circumstances under which you will and will not
shoot someone, before you purchase the gun. The heat of the moment is
not the time to make well-reasoned choices.

Well, he SAYS he regrets his actions. Probably so advised by his lawyer.

I have no doubt he privately says: "Hell yes I shot him and I hope he rots
in Hell!"

Bob F wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:

Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?


Good question. The question that goes to the police, the prosecutor,
and, perhaps ultimately, to the jury is: "Would a reasonable person
in the same or similar circumstances have concluded the trespasser
was a threat?"
If the trespasser is in MY bedroom at 3:00 a.m., wearing a mask and
armed with a chainsaw, each of the above evaluators would probably
tilt in one direction. If, however, the deceased is a letter-carrier
with a signature-required letter in one hand and my door-knocker
gripped in the other, the decision might tip in the other way.

On the situations that fall between these two extremes, its probably
best to shoot first and tell the cops: "He screamed he was going to
kill me!"
Actually, it's probably better to tell the cops nothing. And there's
no requirement that you even HAVE to even CALL the cops. Maybe after
the ball game...

Let us know how that works out for you.

What would you do?

You can't drag him out to the curb for "heavy trash pickup." That would
probably fall under "abuse of a corpse" which is against the law.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Bob F wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:

Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?


Good question. The question that goes to the police, the prosecutor,
and, perhaps ultimately, to the jury is: "Would a reasonable person
in the same or similar circumstances have concluded the trespasser
was a threat?"
If the trespasser is in MY bedroom at 3:00 a.m., wearing a mask and
armed with a chainsaw, each of the above evaluators would probably
tilt in one direction. If, however, the deceased is a letter-carrier
with a signature-required letter in one hand and my door-knocker
gripped in the other, the decision might tip in the other way.

On the situations that fall between these two extremes, its probably
best to shoot first and tell the cops: "He screamed he was going to
kill me!"
Actually, it's probably better to tell the cops nothing. And there's
no requirement that you even HAVE to even CALL the cops. Maybe after
the ball game...

Let us know how that works out for you.

What would you do?

You can't drag him out to the curb for "heavy trash pickup." That would
probably fall under "abuse of a corpse" which is against the law.

further down, there's the thread about how to abandon an old well....

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Bob F wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:

Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?


Good question. The question that goes to the police, the prosecutor,
and, perhaps ultimately, to the jury is: "Would a reasonable person
in the same or similar circumstances have concluded the trespasser
was a threat?"
If the trespasser is in MY bedroom at 3:00 a.m., wearing a mask and
armed with a chainsaw, each of the above evaluators would probably
tilt in one direction. If, however, the deceased is a letter-carrier
with a signature-required letter in one hand and my door-knocker
gripped in the other, the decision might tip in the other way.

On the situations that fall between these two extremes, its probably
best to shoot first and tell the cops: "He screamed he was going to
kill me!"
Actually, it's probably better to tell the cops nothing. And there's
no requirement that you even HAVE to even CALL the cops. Maybe after
the ball game...

Let us know how that works out for you.

What would you do?

You can't drag him out to the curb for "heavy trash pickup." That would
probably fall under "abuse of a corpse" which is against the law.

further down, there's the thread about how to abandon an old well....

HeyBub wrote:
Bob F wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:

Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?


Good question. The question that goes to the police, the prosecutor,
and, perhaps ultimately, to the jury is: "Would a reasonable person
in the same or similar circumstances have concluded the trespasser
was a threat?"
If the trespasser is in MY bedroom at 3:00 a.m., wearing a mask and
armed with a chainsaw, each of the above evaluators would probably
tilt in one direction. If, however, the deceased is a letter-carrier
with a signature-required letter in one hand and my door-knocker
gripped in the other, the decision might tip in the other way.

On the situations that fall between these two extremes, its probably
best to shoot first and tell the cops: "He screamed he was going to
kill me!"
Actually, it's probably better to tell the cops nothing. And there's
no requirement that you even HAVE to even CALL the cops. Maybe after
the ball game...

Let us know how that works out for you.

What would you do?


Actually, I wouldn't shoot anyone in conditions that would require making up a
story.

Call the cops immediately.


You can't drag him out to the curb for "heavy trash pickup." That
would probably fall under "abuse of a corpse" which is against the
law.

Ahhh. You do understand.

HeyBub wrote:
Bob F wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:

Use of deadly force against a simple trespasser alone is never
justified.

how do you KNOW that a trespasser is a "simple" trespasser?
Can you read minds?


Good question. The question that goes to the police, the prosecutor,
and, perhaps ultimately, to the jury is: "Would a reasonable person
in the same or similar circumstances have concluded the trespasser
was a threat?"
If the trespasser is in MY bedroom at 3:00 a.m., wearing a mask and
armed with a chainsaw, each of the above evaluators would probably
tilt in one direction. If, however, the deceased is a letter-carrier
with a signature-required letter in one hand and my door-knocker
gripped in the other, the decision might tip in the other way.

On the situations that fall between these two extremes, its probably
best to shoot first and tell the cops: "He screamed he was going to
kill me!"
Actually, it's probably better to tell the cops nothing. And there's
no requirement that you even HAVE to even CALL the cops. Maybe after
the ball game...

Let us know how that works out for you.

What would you do?


Actually, I wouldn't shoot anyone in conditions that would require making up a
story.

Call the cops immediately.


You can't drag him out to the curb for "heavy trash pickup." That
would probably fall under "abuse of a corpse" which is against the
law.

Ahhh. You do understand.

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:42:05 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:20:29 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:



Think TEXAS!

Joe Horn solved an Immigration problem at the same time AND those
shot were not even on his property.

He told the 911 what he was going to do, and then did it. Good for
him.

FWIW, he regrets the choice he made at the time. It is wise to make
choices about the circumstances under which you will and will not
shoot someone, before you purchase the gun. The heat of the moment
is not the time to make well-reasoned choices.

Check!

Fire now and answer questions later...

Glad you're not my neighbor.


My neighbors are glad I'm their neighbor.

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:42:05 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:20:29 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:



Think TEXAS!

Joe Horn solved an Immigration problem at the same time AND those
shot were not even on his property.

He told the 911 what he was going to do, and then did it. Good for
him.

FWIW, he regrets the choice he made at the time. It is wise to make
choices about the circumstances under which you will and will not
shoot someone, before you purchase the gun. The heat of the moment
is not the time to make well-reasoned choices.

Check!

Fire now and answer questions later...

Glad you're not my neighbor.


My neighbors are glad I'm their neighbor.

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:32:06 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:06:19 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural
properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real
bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Steve


BIG red letters: "Be aware of Invisibility"

Or, "You are NOW in range" (target symbol in the center of the "O")

So, did you have a talk with this prowler and that is how word got
out?

No. In other ways.


I see. A meeting-of-the-minds. Works every time.

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:32:06 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:06:19 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

Where can I find some to the point nasty no trespassing signs? We are
getting prowlers and burglaries during the daytime at very rural
properties.

I hope word has gotten out that I'm a crazy ole man who shoots real
bullets,
but I had a daytime prowler last Saturday.

Steve


BIG red letters: "Be aware of Invisibility"

Or, "You are NOW in range" (target symbol in the center of the "O")

So, did you have a talk with this prowler and that is how word got
out?

No. In other ways.


I see. A meeting-of-the-minds. Works every time.

Bob F wrote:

What would you do?


Actually, I wouldn't shoot anyone in conditions that would require
making up a story.

Call the cops immediately.


You can't drag him out to the curb for "heavy trash pickup." That
would probably fall under "abuse of a corpse" which is against the
law.

Ahhh. You do understand.

--- Newsgroup tasteless post spotted sometime back ---

I FOUND A NEGRO IN MY FAMILY TREE !!!

So I cut him down and put him out by the curb.

----- End of tasteless post. Honestly, I don't see how people get away with
uncouth things like that ---

Anyway, if you're gonna be all "responsible citizen" on us, your first call
should be to 911 for an AMBULANCE. The entire conversation should be:
"Gunshot victim, (address)." When the paramedics get there, THEY will call
the cops. That way you're not on the (recorded) hook for what you might say
to the police dispatcher.

Your SECOND call should be to your lawyer. If you don't have a lawyer, you
should complain to the paramedics about feeling faint, heart pounding, chest
pains, and priapism. They'll take you to the hospital so you can delay
talking to the cops until you have adequate advice.

Bob F wrote:

What would you do?


Actually, I wouldn't shoot anyone in conditions that would require
making up a story.

Call the cops immediately.


You can't drag him out to the curb for "heavy trash pickup." That
would probably fall under "abuse of a corpse" which is against the
law.

Ahhh. You do understand.

--- Newsgroup tasteless post spotted sometime back ---

I FOUND A NEGRO IN MY FAMILY TREE !!!

So I cut him down and put him out by the curb.

----- End of tasteless post. Honestly, I don't see how people get away with
uncouth things like that ---

Anyway, if you're gonna be all "responsible citizen" on us, your first call
should be to 911 for an AMBULANCE. The entire conversation should be:
"Gunshot victim, (address)." When the paramedics get there, THEY will call
the cops. That way you're not on the (recorded) hook for what you might say
to the police dispatcher.

Your SECOND call should be to your lawyer. If you don't have a lawyer, you
should complain to the paramedics about feeling faint, heart pounding, chest
pains, and priapism. They'll take you to the hospital so you can delay
talking to the cops until you have adequate advice.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Anyway, if you're gonna be all "responsible citizen" on us, your first call
should be to 911 for an AMBULANCE. The entire conversation should be:
"Gunshot victim, (address)." When the paramedics get there, THEY will call
the cops. That way you're not on the (recorded) hook for what you might say
to the police dispatcher.
If that is how they do it in your area, I would probably quit as a
medic. Everywhere else, you have a gunshot victim call they roll the
cops (probably quite a few) immediately along with the ambulance.
Depending on the area, there are some places where the ambulance
protocols say the cops should secure the area before the medics are
allowed in.

Your SECOND call should be to your lawyer. If you don't have a lawyer, you
should complain to the paramedics about feeling faint, heart pounding, chest
pains, and priapism. They'll take you to the hospital so you can delay
talking to the cops until you have adequate advice.

If you tell about priapism it has to be present for more than 4 hours
(g).
Or, you can tell the cops at the scene that you don't want to talk to
them until your attorney arrives. And don't fall for all that bunk
about how that makes you look guilty.

--
To find that place where the rats don't race
and the phones don't ring at all.
If once, you've slept on an island.
Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"