Not sure if this is the appropriate way to handle this situation or not,
looking for feedback...

anyway, background. In my living room there are two boxes for wall
sconces. The PO's of the house had blanked them off and then hung oil
lamps in their place. It is really frustrating to come home after dark
and not really have any light that can easily be turned on from the
front door (there is no ceiling light in the really small foyer area.)
So I determined to remove the oil lamps and reinstall wall sconces.
SWMBO and I have been discussing this ever since we moved in with no
agreement as of yet as to what to install. (She's sort of a Frank Lloyd
Wright girl; my tastes run more in a Raymond Loewy sort of direction.)

Being constantly frustrated by the lack of lighting, I started looking
around the house to see what I could temporarily put up there to serve
as light. I found some old 1940's porcelain bathroom sconces that she'd
picked up at one of those salvage places for possible use in the
bathroom, cleaned them up, found them to actually be quite nice. (hey,
it was either that or some porcelain lampholders that I'd removed from
the basement.) Being porcelain, they also gave the added benefit that I
didn't have to feel guilty about not grounding the wall boxes. I
disassembled them and found that the sockets were connected to the wires
by screw terminals, about the same size/shape as those found on a
standard receptacle. I dug out some 14AWG THHN and rewired them. The
original wire appeared to be 16 or 18 AWG stranded cloth covered wire,
just wrapped around the screw terminals. The 14 wouldn't fit under the
terminals neatly, but after tinning them with solder and treating them
like solid wire they worked perfectly.

So now I have light in my living room, which is nice and functional, but
they look awful enough that perhaps now she'll get serious about picking
out some permanent sconces

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? (loosening over time, etc?) Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

thanks

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the appropriate way to handle this situation or not,
looking for feedback...

anyway, background. In my living room there are two boxes for wall
sconces. The PO's of the house had blanked them off and then hung oil
lamps in their place. It is really frustrating to come home after dark
and not really have any light that can easily be turned on from the front
door (there is no ceiling light in the really small foyer area.) So I
determined to remove the oil lamps and reinstall wall sconces. SWMBO and I
have been discussing this ever since we moved in with no agreement as of
yet as to what to install. (She's sort of a Frank Lloyd Wright girl; my
tastes run more in a Raymond Loewy sort of direction.)

Being constantly frustrated by the lack of lighting, I started looking
around the house to see what I could temporarily put up there to serve as
light. I found some old 1940's porcelain bathroom sconces that she'd
picked up at one of those salvage places for possible use in the bathroom,
cleaned them up, found them to actually be quite nice. (hey, it was
either that or some porcelain lampholders that I'd removed from the
basement.) Being porcelain, they also gave the added benefit that I
didn't have to feel guilty about not grounding the wall boxes. I
disassembled them and found that the sockets were connected to the wires
by screw terminals, about the same size/shape as those found on a standard
receptacle. I dug out some 14AWG THHN and rewired them. The original
wire appeared to be 16 or 18 AWG stranded cloth covered wire, just wrapped
around the screw terminals. The 14 wouldn't fit under the terminals
neatly, but after tinning them with solder and treating them like solid
wire they worked perfectly.

So now I have light in my living room, which is nice and functional, but
they look awful enough that perhaps now she'll get serious about picking
out some permanent sconces

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? (loosening over time, etc?) Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

thanks

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Geez Nate, the only thing you left out was what you had for dinner. Tinned
is fine, hell, solder the wires to the terminals if you like

RBM wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the appropriate way to handle this situation or not,
looking for feedback...

anyway, background. In my living room there are two boxes for wall
sconces. The PO's of the house had blanked them off and then hung oil
lamps in their place. It is really frustrating to come home after dark
and not really have any light that can easily be turned on from the front
door (there is no ceiling light in the really small foyer area.) So I
determined to remove the oil lamps and reinstall wall sconces. SWMBO and I
have been discussing this ever since we moved in with no agreement as of
yet as to what to install. (She's sort of a Frank Lloyd Wright girl; my
tastes run more in a Raymond Loewy sort of direction.)

Being constantly frustrated by the lack of lighting, I started looking
around the house to see what I could temporarily put up there to serve as
light. I found some old 1940's porcelain bathroom sconces that she'd
picked up at one of those salvage places for possible use in the bathroom,
cleaned them up, found them to actually be quite nice. (hey, it was
either that or some porcelain lampholders that I'd removed from the
basement.) Being porcelain, they also gave the added benefit that I
didn't have to feel guilty about not grounding the wall boxes. I
disassembled them and found that the sockets were connected to the wires
by screw terminals, about the same size/shape as those found on a standard
receptacle. I dug out some 14AWG THHN and rewired them. The original
wire appeared to be 16 or 18 AWG stranded cloth covered wire, just wrapped
around the screw terminals. The 14 wouldn't fit under the terminals
neatly, but after tinning them with solder and treating them like solid
wire they worked perfectly.

So now I have light in my living room, which is nice and functional, but
they look awful enough that perhaps now she'll get serious about picking
out some permanent sconces

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? (loosening over time, etc?) Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

thanks

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Geez Nate, the only thing you left out was what you had for dinner.

Nothing yet, but I suspect it will be served with beer and/or bourbon.

I was just trying to forestall the "why the hell did you do it THAT way"
comments

Tinned
is fine, hell, solder the wires to the terminals if you like

I guess after I did it and got 'em up I thought about it a little and
wondered if I shouldn't have used Sta-Kons instead. Was thinking that
maybe the tinned wire ends would have a higher coefficient of thermal
expansion or something, sort of like aluminum wire. Was one of those
deals where I already had the soldering iron out anyway (the sconces
have little receptacles built into them, and the wires are soldered onto
those... I went ahead and put new wires on them "while I was in there"
but didn't bother to hook them up in their current location)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Sun, 03 May 2009 15:44:13 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? (loosening over time, etc?) Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

Tinning the wires is probably the best way to insure that a rouge
strand will not find it's way to the wrong place. Take a break and
wait for SWMBO to provide "darling" replacements.

G.S.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the appropriate way to handle this situation or not,
looking for feedback...

anyway, background. In my living room there are two boxes for wall
sconces. The PO's of the house had blanked them off and then hung oil
lamps in their place. It is really frustrating to come home after dark
and not really have any light that can easily be turned on from the
front door (there is no ceiling light in the really small foyer area.)
So I determined to remove the oil lamps and reinstall wall sconces.
SWMBO and I have been discussing this ever since we moved in with no
agreement as of yet as to what to install. (She's sort of a Frank Lloyd
Wright girl; my tastes run more in a Raymond Loewy sort of direction.)

Being constantly frustrated by the lack of lighting, I started looking
around the house to see what I could temporarily put up there to serve
as light. I found some old 1940's porcelain bathroom sconces that she'd
picked up at one of those salvage places for possible use in the
bathroom, cleaned them up, found them to actually be quite nice. (hey,
it was either that or some porcelain lampholders that I'd removed from
the basement.) Being porcelain, they also gave the added benefit that I
didn't have to feel guilty about not grounding the wall boxes. I
disassembled them and found that the sockets were connected to the wires
by screw terminals, about the same size/shape as those found on a
standard receptacle. I dug out some 14AWG THHN and rewired them. The
original wire appeared to be 16 or 18 AWG stranded cloth covered wire,
just wrapped around the screw terminals. The 14 wouldn't fit under the
terminals neatly, but after tinning them with solder and treating them
like solid wire they worked perfectly.

So now I have light in my living room, which is nice and functional, but
they look awful enough that perhaps now she'll get serious about picking
out some permanent sconces

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? (loosening over time, etc?) Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

thanks

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Geez Nate, the only thing you left out was what you had for dinner.

Nothing yet, but I suspect it will be served with beer and/or bourbon.

I was just trying to forestall the "why the hell did you do it THAT way"
comments

Tinned is fine, hell, solder the wires to the terminals if you like

I guess after I did it and got 'em up I thought about it a little and
wondered if I shouldn't have used Sta-Kons instead. Was thinking that
maybe the tinned wire ends would have a higher coefficient of thermal
expansion or something, sort of like aluminum wire. Was one of those
deals where I already had the soldering iron out anyway (the sconces have
little receptacles built into them, and the wires are soldered onto
those... I went ahead and put new wires on them "while I was in there"
but didn't bother to hook them up in their current location)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Manufacturers routinely tin stranded wires in places where the connectors
are designed for solid wires. Works fine, yours will too

"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 May 2009 15:44:13 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? (loosening over time, etc?) Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

Tinning the wires is probably the best way to insure that a rouge
strand will not find it's way to the wrong place. Take a break and
wait for SWMBO to provide "darling" replacements.

G.S.

And I though rouge was something a SWMBO put on her face

On Sun, 3 May 2009 16:33:10 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 03 May 2009 15:44:13 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? (loosening over time, etc?) Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

Tinning the wires is probably the best way to insure that a rouge
strand will not find it's way to the wrong place. Take a break and
wait for SWMBO to provide "darling" replacements.

G.S.

And I though rouge was something a SWMBO put on her face


That's the problem with spell checkers.
It didn't detect the rogue "g." :-(

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
I dug out some 14AWG THHN and rewired them. The original wire appeared
to be 16 or 18 AWG stranded cloth covered wire, just wrapped around the
screw terminals. The 14 wouldn't fit under the terminals neatly, but
after tinning them with solder and treating them like solid wire they
worked perfectly.

So now I have light in my living room, which is nice and functional, but
they look awful enough that perhaps now she'll get serious about picking
out some permanent sconces


What you did is fine, but there is an easier way. Put a light on a timer. I
even have an X-10 setup so I can turn on a couple of lights from my car if
we come home after the timer shuts them all off.

"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 May 2009 16:33:10 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 03 May 2009 15:44:13 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? (loosening over time, etc?) Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

Tinning the wires is probably the best way to insure that a rouge
strand will not find it's way to the wrong place. Take a break and
wait for SWMBO to provide "darling" replacements.

G.S.

And I though rouge was something a SWMBO put on her face


That's the problem with spell checkers.
It didn't detect the rogue "g." :-(

I'm with you on that. I've never been able to spell, and I've become so
dependent on the checker, but I still sometimes forget to check for proper
words used improperly.

What you did is fine, but there is an easier way. Put a light on a
timer. I even have an X-10 setup so I can turn on a couple of lights
from my car if we come home after the timer shuts them all off.

Can you explain how you did this? Our outsde lights in front are X-10, and
our car can be programmed to open the garage door, but does that mean it can
also turn on X-10 operated lights? I don't see that in the manual.

thanks,
Keith

K wrote:
What you did is fine, but there is an easier way. Put a light on a
timer. I even have an X-10 setup so I can turn on a couple of lights
from my car if we come home after the timer shuts them all off.

Can you explain how you did this? Our outsde lights in front are X-10, and
our car can be programmed to open the garage door, but does that mean it can
also turn on X-10 operated lights? I don't see that in the manual.

thanks,
Keith



I'm guessing that he must have had an X-10 xmitter/receiver setup with
the xmitter in his car.

I still have a little bit of X-10 stuff; mostly because I am hard to
wake up in the morning. They used to have (still do?) an X-10 alarm
clock, and I liked having that because I'd program the lamp next to my
bed to come on when my alarm went off. However the alarm buzzer is
pretty wimpy and the thing wouldn't keep time when the power went off
(it had a battery backup but it'd be off by an hour or two by the time
the power came back on) so I moved on to more modern technology.

Once upon a time, you used to see alarm clocks, especially clock radios,
with a receptacle in the back of the case to plug in a lamp. Haven't
seen that in years.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
I dug out some 14AWG THHN and rewired them. The original wire appeared
to be 16 or 18 AWG stranded cloth covered wire, just wrapped around the
screw terminals. The 14 wouldn't fit under the terminals neatly, but
after tinning them with solder and treating them like solid wire they
worked perfectly.

So now I have light in my living room, which is nice and functional, but
they look awful enough that perhaps now she'll get serious about picking
out some permanent sconces


What you did is fine, but there is an easier way. Put a light on a timer. I
even have an X-10 setup so I can turn on a couple of lights from my car if
we come home after the timer shuts them all off.


That'd work, but I still needed to have lights in the first place

Before today, you'd have to find your way over to a table lamp or
torchiere without crashing into a bookcase, tripping over some shoes
that didn't make it onto the shoe rack, etc... (or just go into the
kitchen and turn the light on there, which resulted in a lot of mail
piling up on the kitchen table rather than the small table by the door
that was intended for that purpose...)

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"K" wrote in message
...

What you did is fine, but there is an easier way. Put a light on a
timer. I even have an X-10 setup so I can turn on a couple of lights
from my car if we come home after the timer shuts them all off.

Can you explain how you did this? Our outsde lights in front are X-10,
and our car can be programmed to open the garage door, but does that mean
it can also turn on X-10 operated lights? I don't see that in the manual.

thanks,
Keith


Depends on the car. My 01 Buick and my 07 Sonata both have multiple
programmable buttons. You also need a receiver in the house for it to work.
www.smarthome.com for more information.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message


That'd work, but I still needed to have lights in the first place

Before today, you'd have to find your way over to a table lamp or
torchiere without crashing into a bookcase, tripping over some shoes that
didn't make it onto the shoe rack, etc... (or just go into the kitchen
and turn the light on there, which resulted in a lot of mail piling up on
the kitchen table rather than the small table by the door that was
intended for that purpose...)


Downstairs we have a small 7 watt night light in the hall. The kitchen has
an under counter 18" fluorescent that only gets turned off when it burns
out. A couple of other lights are on timers; family room lamp and living
room lamp. The timer turns them on, but I usually turn them off with the
controller in the bedroom with the touch of a button. I also have a couple
of outdoor light on X-10 so I can turn them on if I choose, for security if
I hear noises outside. Driveway has a motion detector.

On May 3, 2:44*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

snip

For some discreet permanent night lights, we have installed a number
of Pass/Seymour Legrand combination hallway light/receptacle combos.
Cat. # is TM8HWL. They also have a full hallway light cat. # TMHWL
which we will be using at the doorways to a room with a different
floor level as a safety means. They also have GFCI combo receptacles
if that is needed. The LED's are rated 20 year life. You might find
those useful for your night lighting issues.

Joe

On May 3, 3:44*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? *(loosening over time, etc?)

Yes. Solder is infamous for both loosening screws and causing wire to
slip from under screws.

Makes a dandy lubricant.
-----

- gpsman

On Sun, 3 May 2009 19:31:37 -0500, "K"
wrote:


What you did is fine, but there is an easier way. Put a light on a
timer. I even have an X-10 setup so I can turn on a couple of lights
from my car if we come home after the timer shuts them all off.

Can you explain how you did this? Our outsde lights in front are X-10, and
our car can be programmed to open the garage door, but does that mean it can
also turn on X-10 operated lights? I don't see that in the manual.

thanks,
Keith

The system used in most cars happened to be compatible with the X-10
RF system. That really surprised me, but it works with my 2004 Prius.
If your X-10 system has any of their RF remotes, just use a
transmitter to train the car transmitter.

On May 3, 7:31*pm, "K" wrote:
What you did is fine, but there is an easier way. Put a light on a
timer. *I even have an X-10 setup so I can turn on a couple of lights
from my car if we come home after the timer shuts them all off.

Can you explain how you did this? *Our outsde lights in front are X-10, and
our car can be programmed to open the garage door, but does that mean it can
also turn on X-10 operated lights? *I don't see that in the manual.

thanks,
Keith

GMs built in 2 or 3 button car garage door openers do x10 and GMs
pushed brand of x10 which might be "Smart Home". Its been years since
I messed with this but I think any 2-3 button garage door system can
be programed to run x10. Check out x 10 2 bulb light motion sensor,
the one with 10 switches under the panel, I pull in the garage and the
x10 light unit turns on 2 more light units outside. But x10 quality is
crappy on these units.

Much safer, tinned, than stranded. You did good. Now, the
big question. Is she happy with the job?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning
a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? (loosening over time, etc?)
Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may
actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

thanks

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

I've got old black art deco bathroom sconces in my living room. what
do you think? :P seriously this was just a little thing that I could
do since it was raining outside and I didn't have the permanent light
fixtures, I just wanted to throw something up there so that a) I could
have light and b) if there was a problem with the house wiring I could
identify it now rather than later while trying to mount the "real
stuff."

However, she did insist on me showing her how to do basic soldering
while I had all my tools out, so there's hope yet Oh, and for the
record, my ancient Weller soldering station (the one with the
temperature regulation built into the tips) is still the greatest
soldering tool I've ever used.

The worst part about the whole exercise is, now that I've "restored"
these light fixtures, I don't think they're going to work in the
bathroom. Oh well, there's always eBay.

nate

On May 4, 1:45*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Much safer, tinned, than stranded. You did good. Now, the
big question. Is she happy with the job?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...

Question is, are there any negative implications of tinning
a stranded
wire that goes under a screw? *(loosening over time, etc?)
Should I try
to find some smaller wire and redo them, since they may
actually be
permanently installed elsewhere later on?

thanks

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On May 4, 7:36*am, ransley wrote:
On May 3, 7:31*pm, "K" wrote:

What you did is fine, but there is an easier way. Put a light on a
timer. *I even have an X-10 setup so I can turn on a couple of lights
from my car if we come home after the timer shuts them all off.

Can you explain how you did this? *Our outsde lights in front are X-10, and
our car can be programmed to open the garage door, but does that mean it can
also turn on X-10 operated lights? *I don't see that in the manual.

thanks,
Keith

GMs built in 2 or 3 button car garage door openers do x10 and GMs
pushed brand of x10 which might be "Smart Home". Its been years since
I messed with this but I think any 2-3 button garage door system can
be programed to run x10. Check out x 10 2 bulb light motion sensor,
the one with 10 switches under the panel, I pull in the garage and the
x10 light unit turns on 2 more light units outside. But x10 quality is
crappy on these units.

Yes there is an X10 transmitter available that sends X10 signals to
the powerline based on either a low voltage current sense or low
voltage contact state changes. You can simply plug this unit into a
nearby power outlet then run a pair of low voltage wires from the
garage door opener relay to the X10 transmitter. Then program the
transmitter to send the appropriate X10 address when the garage
contacts close or open. The unit actually has 4 digital inputs so you
can monitor up to 4 separate low voltage relays each sending its own
X10 address on/off commands. This setup also makes a good indoor
indicator if you left the garage door opened.

Not a bad thing, Nate, but actually,
14 gauge wire is a tad overkill, and not likely necessary to handle the
current needed to fire up the size bulb(s) used in a wall sconce.

The screw terminals in sconces, table and floor lamps, and the like, is
not sized to accept the wire you used - hence the difficulty getting it
to fit under the screws, and tinning fattened the conductors a bit as
well. The branch feeders in the wall case, of course, must be 14 gauge,
rated at 15 amps - but not the pigtails on the sconces.

16 gauge wire, and probably 18 gauge, would suffice, but it must have an
insulation rating of 105° C - rated to resist failure from
temperatures up to 105° C (221° F).

Joe

On May 4, 4:38*pm, (J O E) wrote:
Not a bad thing, Nate, but actually,
14 gauge wire is a tad overkill, and not likely necessary to handle the
current needed to fire up the size bulb(s) used in a wall sconce.

The screw terminals in sconces, table and floor lamps, and the like, is
not sized to accept the wire you used - hence the difficulty getting it
to fit under the screws, and tinning fattened the conductors a bit as
well. The branch feeders in the wall case, of course, must be 14 gauge,
rated at 15 amps - but not the pigtails on the sconces.

16 gauge wire, and probably 18 gauge, would suffice, but it must have an
insulation rating of 105° C - rated to resist failure from
temperatures up to 105° C (221° F).

Joe

right, that was an expediency measure - I had the 14AWG THHN in my
junk box, and it would have been required anyway for the little
receptacles - I didn't have any 16 or 18 handy. The THHN is small
enough in OD compared to the original cloth over rubber insulation
that it's still an improvement.

nate

Now, your only challenge is if your wife likes the lights.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"N8N" wrote in message
...

right, that was an expediency measure - I had the 14AWG THHN
in my
junk box, and it would have been required anyway for the
little
receptacles - I didn't have any 16 or 18 handy. The THHN is
small
enough in OD compared to the original cloth over rubber
insulation
that it's still an improvement.

nate