I find this hard to believe. This house was in foreclosure, the heat
was turned off, and a pipe broke filling the house with an estimated
100,000 gallons of water. The outdoor temperature was MINUS 40 deg. F
The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding. Here are the links to the photos from the tv news channel.

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...23b2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...6cf6_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...0b31_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...9905_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...09bf_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...04c2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...3d20_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...a2d2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...8147_large.jpg

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:00:50 -0600, Jimw wrote:

I find this hard to believe. This house was in foreclosure, the heat
was turned off, and a pipe broke filling the house with an estimated
100,000 gallons of water. The outdoor temperature was MINUS 40 deg. F
The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding. Here are the links to the photos from the tv news channel.

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...23b2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...6cf6_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...0b31_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...9905_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...09bf_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...04c2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...3d20_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...a2d2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...8147_large.jpg

When they get it all cleaned up, they will discover that it wasn't a
pipe that broke. Someone broke in and stole the plumbing to sell as
scrap.

wrote in message

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...a2d2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...8147_large.jpg

When they get it all cleaned up, they will discover that it wasn't a
pipe that broke. Someone broke in and stole the plumbing to sell as
scrap.


Very likely that is the case. Or vengeance from the previous occupant.

Looks like the cleanup crew will probably use a bulldozer and just start
over. In August.

Any photos of the inside?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jimw" wrote in message
...
I find this hard to believe. This house was in foreclosure,
the heat
was turned off, and a pipe broke filling the house with an
estimated
100,000 gallons of water. The outdoor temperature was MINUS
40 deg. F
The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled
with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through
the
siding. Here are the links to the photos from the tv news
channel.

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...23b2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...6cf6_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...0b31_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...9905_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...09bf_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...04c2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...3d20_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...a2d2_large.jpg

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...8147_large.jpg

On Jan 18, 5:00*am, Jimw wrote:
I find this hard to believe. *This house was in foreclosure, the heat
was turned off, and a pipe broke filling the house with an estimated
100,000 gallons of water. *The outdoor temperature was MINUS 40 deg. F
The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding. *Here are the links to the photos from the tv news channel.

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...os/2009/01/16/...

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...os/2009/01/16/...

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...os/2009/01/16/...

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...os/2009/01/16/...

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...os/2009/01/16/...

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...os/2009/01/16/...

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...os/2009/01/16/...

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...os/2009/01/16/...

http://lacrosse.youpostitwisconsin.c...os/2009/01/16/...

If nobody was living there the insurance co wont want to pay

On Jan 18, 6:00*am, Jimw wrote:

The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding.

That would make a great window ad.
-----

- gpsman

"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 6:00 am, Jimw wrote:

The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding.

That would make a great window ad.
-----

- gpsman

I was thinking the same thing! If water can leak OUT cold air can leak IN.
Interesting that it leaked more around the porch light than around the
electric outlet lower on the wall.

On Jan 18, 5:00*am, Jimw wrote:
I find this hard to believe. *This house was in foreclosure, the heat
was turned off, and a pipe broke filling the house with an estimated
100,000 gallons of water. *The outdoor temperature was MINUS 40 deg. F
The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding. *Here are the links to the photos from the tv news channel.
....

Looks to me more likely than filled house full of water that it ran
down wall cavities and came out everywhere there was an opening. I'm
sure there's water inside but doesn't appear to be a solid ice block
on the inside of the windows nor would I expect it wouldn't have blown
out a wall somewhere w/ that much weight/lateral loading. New meaning
to "leak test", however...

--

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:31:41 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Any photos of the inside?

What I posted is all of the pics of it that are on their website.
I dont know how they would get pics inside except maybe the second
floor. It looks like it filled the first floor to the ceiling or darn
close, with all the ice coming out by the outdoor lights and tops of
windows. What gets me, is why the basement floor drain didnt work, or
even the water going down the toilet and other drains, but maybe that
stuff iced over first. It had to be a good sized leak. I'd guess
that beyond the walls, the water is still liquid in the middle of the
house. I think they need a very long drill bit like for ice
fishing.....

If they leave it freeze solid, the walls will come outward off the
foundation, which could damage other houses nearby. I dont think they
could even demolish it right now. The rush of water coming out could
do severe damage to houses next door. I'd like to find out what comes
of it, but these news stations dont always followup on things like
this.

Jim

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 07:19:21 -0800 (PST), gpsman
wrote:

On Jan 18, 6:00*am, Jimw wrote:

The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding.

That would make a great window ad.
-----

- gpsman

I'm surprized the glass did not break.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:37:53 -0500, "Mark" wrote:


"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 6:00 am, Jimw wrote:

The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding.

That would make a great window ad.
-----

- gpsman

I was thinking the same thing! If water can leak OUT cold air can leak IN.
Interesting that it leaked more around the porch light than around the
electric outlet lower on the wall.

Yea, I thought the same thing.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 07:44:25 -0800 (PST), dpb
wrote:

On Jan 18, 5:00*am, Jimw wrote:
I find this hard to believe. *This house was in foreclosure, the heat
was turned off, and a pipe broke filling the house with an estimated
100,000 gallons of water. *The outdoor temperature was MINUS 40 deg. F
The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding. *Here are the links to the photos from the tv news channel.
...

Looks to me more likely than filled house full of water that it ran
down wall cavities and came out everywhere there was an opening. I'm
sure there's water inside but doesn't appear to be a solid ice block
on the inside of the windows nor would I expect it wouldn't have blown
out a wall somewhere w/ that much weight/lateral loading. New meaning
to "leak test", however...

But how would it get that high on the walls. Unless the break was
upstairs, but there would be a stairway.... And it's on all sides of
the house..... I agree, you'd think the weight would blow out both
glass and maybe walls. I really dont fully understand the whole
thing. They did say on the news that they estimated 100,000 gallons.
Thats a lot of water. I wish I was colose enough to go look at it.
But even if I was close, I suppose it's all "police taped" off anyhow
for safety.

Jim

On Jan 18, 10:25*am, Jimw wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:37:53 -0500, "Mark" wrote:

"gpsman" wrote in message
....
On Jan 18, 6:00 am, Jimw wrote:

The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding.
....
I was thinking the same thing! *If water can leak OUT cold air can leak IN.
Interesting that it leaked more around the porch light than around the
electric outlet lower on the wall.

Yea, I thought the same thing.

I don't believe the house is full at all -- the windows pictures don't
look like a solid block of ice inside to me. See upthread posting but
I think it simply broke an exterior line and ran down the wall
cavities for the most part.

That there's more coming out the porch light mounting opening than the
other electric outlet simply means there's a larger hole around the
one than the other or other obstruction(s) damming the outlet more
than the light.

_IF_ it were indeed full, not only would windows have broken, it's
highly unlikely imo there wouldn't have been a full wall blowout

Let's see---if it were a 1600 sq-ft area, the volume at 8-ft ceiling
height would be 12,800 cu-ft -- ~96,000 gal (ok, that's pretty near
the 100k earlier guess) == ~~6,640,000 lb-wt

That would translate to a distributed lateral load of ~5200 lb-f/sq-ft
or 36 psi. That's expecting the house to hold the equivalent of 2-1/2
atmospheres w/ no apparent failures (even bowing walls aren't visible
in the pictures to any extent)--ain't agonna' happen.

And, of course, the floor loading would be 500 lb/sq-ft so it would
that w/ a 40 psf design load and 2X SF still would be about 1.5X that
so at least marginally likely wouldn't hold it.

As noted earlier, there's bound to be a bunch of water in the house,
basement, etc., but I think most of the ice visible from the outside
came through the walls first, not from filling the house like a tank.

--

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Any photos of the inside?

That was my first thought as well- 'I'd pay a dollar to see the inside'.

Like the other guy said, I highly doubt the place is a solid block.
Unless it was a real slow leak, freezing in layers, the water pressure
would blow out the windows. My SWAG is that an upstairs bathroom let go,
and flooded out to the walls, and ran down the stud bays. If there was a
really well done ceiling on first floor, the joist cavities could act
like water channels.

And I'd still pay a dollar to see inside.

--
aem sends...

On Jan 18, 10:31*am, Jimw wrote:
....
But how would it get that high on the walls. *Unless the break was
upstairs, but there would be a stairway.... And it's on all sides of
the house..... *

Simple -- it filled the wall cavities from the inside and running thru
ceilings, etc.

Think putting a garden hose into a hole in the wall -- doesn't matter
whether it's at the top or the bottom; more will come in than leak out
and since you have supply pressure it will rise to the top and be
force out wherever it can find an opening. The largest holes will
have the most visible ice because they had the largest leak paths.

I seriously doubt there's but a few feet _AT_MOST_ standing inside.

I didn't look at every picture, but the ones I did that showed windows
don't look to me at all like threre's a solid ice block against them
on the inside.

--

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Any photos of the inside?

That was my first thought as well- 'I'd pay a dollar to see the inside'.

Like the other guy said, I highly doubt the place is a solid block. Unless
it was a real slow leak, freezing in layers, the water pressure would blow
out the windows. My SWAG is that an upstairs bathroom let go, and flooded
out to the walls, and ran down the stud bays. If there was a really well
done ceiling on first floor, the joist cavities could act like water
channels.

And I'd still pay a dollar to see inside.

Several years ago, there was a Siberian blast cold wave in Las Vegas. Not
known for its cold winters. There were hundreds of buildings that looked
like this and worse. Buildings and houses that had second floor patios had
icicles that stretched from second floor to ground, and were 12 to 18" in
diameter at the top. Water "appearing" to be flowing out of windows, but in
reality, following the trails from the second floor down, and exiting at the
windows. You'll notice in these pictures, one corner where there is an ice
block, probably at a seam that didn't get sealed. I really doubt that this
was one solid block, but that it was a hell of a mess, and a really cold
day/night. I do not think that any house is well enough built to hold water
to that degree, and as we all know, water expands as it freezes, and I
didn't observe any real buckling outward.

Steve

On Jan 18, 11:03*am, aemeijers wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Any photos of the inside?

That was my first thought as well- 'I'd pay a dollar to see the inside'.

Like the other guy said, I highly doubt the place is a solid block.
Unless it was a real slow leak, freezing in layers, the water pressure
would blow out the windows. My SWAG is that an upstairs bathroom let go,
and flooded out to the walls, and ran down the stud bays. If there was a
really well done ceiling on first floor, the joist cavities could act
like water channels.

Some scenario such as that is almost certainly the case "the other
guy" agrees...

And I'd still pay a dollar to see inside.

Yeah, I'd chip in at least a quarter, too...

And, do you suppose the mortgage holding company just _might_ be
considering checking whether any of their other foreclosured
propertiess are also vacant and unheated w/o the water having been
turned off?

--

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:54:32 -0800 (PST), dpb
wrote:

On Jan 18, 10:25*am, Jimw wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:37:53 -0500, "Mark" wrote:

"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 6:00 am, Jimw wrote:

The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding.
...
I was thinking the same thing! *If water can leak OUT cold air can leak IN.
Interesting that it leaked more around the porch light than around the
electric outlet lower on the wall.

Yea, I thought the same thing.

I don't believe the house is full at all -- the windows pictures don't
look like a solid block of ice inside to me. See upthread posting but
I think it simply broke an exterior line and ran down the wall
cavities for the most part.

That there's more coming out the porch light mounting opening than the
other electric outlet simply means there's a larger hole around the
one than the other or other obstruction(s) damming the outlet more
than the light.

_IF_ it were indeed full, not only would windows have broken, it's
highly unlikely imo there wouldn't have been a full wall blowout

Let's see---if it were a 1600 sq-ft area, the volume at 8-ft ceiling
height would be 12,800 cu-ft -- ~96,000 gal (ok, that's pretty near
the 100k earlier guess) == ~~6,640,000 lb-wt

That would translate to a distributed lateral load of ~5200 lb-f/sq-ft
or 36 psi. That's expecting the house to hold the equivalent of 2-1/2
atmospheres w/ no apparent failures (even bowing walls aren't visible
in the pictures to any extent)--ain't agonna' happen.

And, of course, the floor loading would be 500 lb/sq-ft so it would
that w/ a 40 psf design load and 2X SF still would be about 1.5X that
so at least marginally likely wouldn't hold it.

As noted earlier, there's bound to be a bunch of water in the house,
basement, etc., but I think most of the ice visible from the outside
came through the walls first, not from filling the house like a tank.

I've been thinking about this too, and doing some weight calculations.
Even if the walls did not bow or collapse, the windows would have
blown out. This makes me think that the pipe break was actually on
the second floor. The water ran across the floor to the walls and
down into the walls. That's about the only thing that makes sense.
That might be why there is more water by the light fixtures than the
outlet, it came out higher first. Of course like you said, the size
of the cutout would matter too.

It's hard to see what is inside the windows from the pics, but I'd
have to agree with you. The first thing I thought when I saw this,
was how could the glass hold the pressure. That was before doing soem
weight calculations. The leak had to be upstairs. Now why it didn't
go down the stairs? All I can imagine the house is not exactly level
and water ran toward the walls, plus if the leak was big enough (which
it must be for 100K gallons), then it was rushing down the stairs AND
down the walls. Then too, closed interior doors could have an effect
too.

All because some idiot didn't shut off the water main valve !!!!
Lets see, if it's foreclosed, then the bank owns it. I guess bankers
dont know about valves, providing heat in cold weather, and things
like that.....


Jim

On Jan 18, 11:27*am, Jimw wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:54:32 -0800 (PST), dpb
....
Let's see---if it were a 1600 sq-ft area, the volume at 8-ft ceiling
height would be 12,800 cu-ft -- ~96,000 gal (ok, that's pretty near
the 100k earlier guess) == ~~6,640,000 lb-wt

That would translate to a distributed lateral load of ~5200 lb-f/sq-ft
or 36 psi. *That's expecting the house to hold the equivalent of 2-1/2
atmospheres w/ no apparent failures (even bowing walls aren't visible
in the pictures to any extent)--ain't agonna' happen.

And, of course, the floor loading would be 500 lb/sq-ft so it would
that w/ a 40 psf design load and 2X SF still would be about 1.5X that
so at least marginally likely wouldn't hold it.

As noted earlier, there's bound to be a bunch of water in the house,
basement, etc., but I think most of the ice visible from the outside
came through the walls first, not from filling the house like a tank.

I've been thinking about this too, and doing some weight calculations.
Even if the walls did not bow or collapse, the windows would have
blown out. *This makes me think that the pipe break was actually on
the second floor. *The water ran across the floor to the walls and
down into the walls. *That's about the only thing that makes sense.

That might be why there is more water by the light fixtures than the
outlet, it came out higher first. *Of course like you said, the size
of the cutout would matter too.

It's hard to see what is inside the windows from the pics, but I'd
have to agree with you. The first thing I thought when I saw this,
was how could the glass hold the pressure. That was before doing soem
weight calculations. The leak had to be upstairs. Now why it didn't
go down the stairs? All I can imagine the house is not exactly level
and water ran toward the walls, plus if the leak was big enough (which
it must be for 100K gallons), then it was rushing down the stairs AND
down the walls. Then too, closed interior doors could have an effect
too.

I had already posted the computations based on 96,000 gal which is
close enough to 100k for these purposes...

Some probably did run out during the early stages, but I'd suspect
that most of that came out after the wall cavity between those two
particular studs filled to that level -- again, see upthread posting
but w/ a sizable break, water is filling up the walls from openings
such as aem points out of running along the ceiling and pouring in far
faster than there are openings for it to leak out.

If you ever have an upstairs plumbing leak or a upper story A/C
condenser line plug or similar, you will soon experience how water
will very soon start coming from light fixtures in the ceiling in
rooms quite distant from the actual leak source.

OBTW, one more calculation -- 100,000 gal/10 gpm/60 min/hr/24 hr/day --
7 days

All because some idiot didn't shut off the water main valve !!!!
Lets see, if it's foreclosed, then the bank owns it. I guess bankers
dont know about valves, providing heat in cold weather, and things
like that.....

Banks have so many foreclosures these days and the mortgage holder is
probably somewhere very far removed from the location of the house
since the mortgage undoubtedly was sold within weeks or months of
origination (or it may be in one of those "toxic asset" pools and
nobody even knows who actually is the holder any longer. One would
have hoped their properties overseer would have been more diligent,
but...

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 5:00 am, Jimw wrote:
I find this hard to believe. This house was in foreclosure, the heat
was turned off, and a pipe broke filling the house with an estimated
100,000 gallons of water. The outdoor temperature was MINUS 40 deg. F
The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding. Here are the links to the photos from the tv news channel.
....

Looks to me more likely than filled house full of water that it ran
down wall cavities and came out everywhere there was an opening. I'm
sure there's water inside but doesn't appear to be a solid ice block
on the inside of the windows nor would I expect it wouldn't have blown
out a wall somewhere w/ that much weight/lateral loading. New meaning
to "leak test", however...

--
************************************************** *********

Check the water meter records for the amount of water involved.

If the leak was at the right rate, the water could have frozen in layers, thus
never really having the pressure on the walls of the equivalent depth of water
(other than some effect from the expansion when freezing). The ice would be its
own structure after freezing.

If the house didn't have leaks before, it does now, that's for sure.

Should we talk mold problems?

On Jan 18, 11:51*am, "Bob F" wrote:
....
If the leak was at the right rate, the water could have frozen in layers, thus
never really having the pressure on the walls of the equivalent depth of water
....

Possible, but I don't see how it could do that and have flowed outside
as it did (in the quantity it did) if it was freezing at the same rate
as flowing, essentially...

I'm convinced it isn't anyways even close to full of water (or ice)
whether anyone else is or not...

--

dpb wrote:
On Jan 18, 5:00 am, Jimw wrote:
I find this hard to believe. This house was in foreclosure, the heat
was turned off, and a pipe broke filling the house with an estimated
100,000 gallons of water. The outdoor temperature was MINUS 40 deg. F
The entire first floor (if not more) of the house filled with ice,
which was coming out of windows, light fixtures, and through the
siding. Here are the links to the photos from the tv news channel.
...

Looks to me more likely than filled house full of water that it ran
down wall cavities and came out everywhere there was an opening. I'm
sure there's water inside but doesn't appear to be a solid ice block
on the inside of the windows nor would I expect it wouldn't have blown
out a wall somewhere w/ that much weight/lateral loading. New meaning
to "leak test", however...

--


First I thought there's no way that much water could run in the house,
but at 10 gallons per minute you could get to 100000 in a week. And the
house would collapse from the weight.

But there's no way to actually freeze that much water in a week or two
of cold weather. There's way too much latent heat of fusion to
overcome, plus the house (and the outer layer of ice) would insulate it.

So I'm still calling "BS". I'm also glad I don't have to clean up the mess.

Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message

First I thought there's no way that much water could run in the house, but
at 10 gallons per minute you could get to 100000 in a week. And the house
would collapse from the weight.

But there's no way to actually freeze that much water in a week or two of
cold weather. There's way too much latent heat of fusion to overcome,
plus the house (and the outer layer of ice) would insulate it.

So I'm still calling "BS". I'm also glad I don't have to clean up the
mess.

Bob

Not so sure. Once the water started to freeze, it would be somewhat self
supporting. We don't have specifics on how long the house was empty and
how cold it has been. Where the water comes from can make a difference
also. Dripping from the leaking toilet on the second floor my help it
freeze faster than water coming in from the main in the basement as the
water would spread over a larger area.

It may have also been assisted by the former occupants.

On Jan 18, 12:06*pm, dpb wrote:
*

Simple -- it filled the wall cavities from the inside and running thru
ceilings, etc.



I seriously doubt there's but a few feet _AT_MOST_ standing inside.



Yes of course. The water lines run inside the exterior wall. That's
where the break is, that's what filled up first. Some escaped and
froze outside, the amount that escaped and froze inside may not be
much different.

Jimw wrote:
I find this hard to believe. This house was in foreclosure, the heat
was turned off, and a pipe broke filling the house with an estimated
100,000 gallons of water.
snipped

Deja vu all over again....

In the fall a few years ago my next door neighbors here in Red Sox
Nation left their home for sale in the hands of a realtor and moved to
another state. The house didn't sell quickly and winter arrived.

One morning I looked out a side window of our home and saw this next door:

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/freezer.jpg

Heat had failed, pipe(s) froze and burst.

My ex neighbors had some problems with their homeowners insurance
because of a clause limiting the time they could "abandon" the house.
They somehow prevailed.

Mucho work to get the place back in shape and it wasn't ready go back on
the market again until the fall. I told my ex neighbor that since they
already had a central monitored burglar & fire alarm system they should
add a low temperature monitor to that system. Or, like we used to do 50+
years ago, put a thermostat controlled blue bulb in a window which would
light when the temperature dropped and advise the neighbors to get
someone on the case.

They didn't folllow my advice....With not unexpected results. The place
didn't sell quickly, winter set in, heat failed again in the middle of a
cold spell and a pipe burst.

It took another summer to restore the place a second time, and it
finally got sold to new owners before winter.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Jan 18, 3:07*pm, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:
I told my ex neighbor that since they
already had a central monitored burglar & fire alarm system they should
add a low temperature monitor to that system. Or, like we used to do 50+
years ago, put a thermostat controlled blue bulb in a window which would
light when the temperature dropped and advise the neighbors to get
someone on the case.


Is there an easy way to monitor your house via internet. If you're
traveling on vacation it still would be nice to know the heat is
working.

There must a way to do it, I'm not sure how you set up your house for
remote access though. But once you manage that, a web cam pointed at
a thermometer would at least let you check what the temperature is.

dpb wrote:

And, do you suppose the mortgage holding company just _might_ be
considering checking whether any of their other foreclosured
propertiess are also vacant and unheated w/o the water having been
turned off?

The mortgage companies weren't smart enough to make sure they were lending
money to people who could afford to pay it back, expecting them to deal with
freezing weather is probably asking too much.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:54:32 -0800 (PST), dpb wrote:

Let's see---if it were a 1600 sq-ft area, the volume at 8-ft ceiling
height would be 12,800 cu-ft -- ~96,000 gal (ok, that's pretty near
the 100k earlier guess) == ~~6,640,000 lb-wt

I don't follow this. A gallon of water weighs about 8.34 pounds (depending
on the temperature). So I get 834,000 pounds. You must be using the weight
of a cubic foot of water.

Don www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:26:25 -0800 (PST), TimR wrote:

On Jan 18, 3:07*pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
I told my ex neighbor that since they
already had a central monitored burglar & fire alarm system they should
add a low temperature monitor to that system.

Is there an easy way to monitor your house via internet. If you're
traveling on vacation it still would be nice to know the heat is
working.

There must a way to do it, I'm not sure how you set up your house for
remote access though. But once you manage that, a web cam pointed at
a thermometer would at least let you check what the temperature is.

Why burden yourself having to check the web every day? Once you have a
central monitored system it is trivial to add a low temperature sensor. And
as soon as the set temperature is reached your phone gets a call.

I know they work. I put one in my lowest floor hallway. That is where my
tenant is. One very cold and windy night he did not fully close both doors.
They blew open and the temperature dropped. I got a phone call at 3 AM. As
I was a couple floors up, and it was warm in my bedroom, I didn't believe
them. But, of course, once I got downstairs it was obvious what happened.

Don www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:28:09 -0500, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:54:32 -0800 (PST), dpb wrote:

Let's see---if it were a 1600 sq-ft area, the volume at 8-ft ceiling
height would be 12,800 cu-ft -- ~96,000 gal (ok, that's pretty near
the 100k earlier guess) == ~~6,640,000 lb-wt

I don't follow this. A gallon of water weighs about 8.34 pounds (depending
on the temperature). So I get 834,000 pounds. You must be using the weight
of a cubic foot of water.

Don www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

That's the weight I got too. Pretty simple math. I double checked
and a gallon of water is 8.34lb (rounded figure).
So I cant see where that 6,640,000 lb figure came from.

However, even if half the water went into the basement or down a
drain, that would still be 417,000 LBS or 209 (rounded) TONS.
No wooden structure could handle that. I farm, and years ago I tried
to unload a round bale of hay, (which weighed about 3/4 ton). using 3
2x6 boards as a ramp. Sure enough, all 3 boards broke as the bale got
midway down the ramp. Then the bale rolled down a hill, busted down a
fence, and finally stopped leaving a large dent in an old junker car.
Fortunately the car was going to the scrap yard, so it did not matter.
On the other hand, the busted fence left a few horses an opportunity
to escape and I spent much of the day chasing after them. I finally
got them, then spent the rest of the day repairing the fence. Not one
of my most brilliant days!!!

Jim

aemeijers wrote in news:jhJcl.297543$Mh5.157918
@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Any photos of the inside?

That was my first thought as well- 'I'd pay a dollar to see the inside'.

Like the other guy said, I highly doubt the place is a solid block.
Unless it was a real slow leak, freezing in layers, the water pressure
would blow out the windows. My SWAG is that an upstairs bathroom let go,
and flooded out to the walls, and ran down the stud bays. If there was a
really well done ceiling on first floor, the joist cavities could act
like water channels.

And I'd still pay a dollar to see inside.

--
aem sends...


Well, as they say on the John-Boy and Billy radio show here in NC, "Hey big
fella. Lemme hole a dolluh".

on 1/18/2009 3:26 PM (ET) TimR wrote the following:
On Jan 18, 3:07 pm, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:
I told my ex neighbor that since they

already had a central monitored burglar & fire alarm system they should
add a low temperature monitor to that system. Or, like we used to do 50+
years ago, put a thermostat controlled blue bulb in a window which would
light when the temperature dropped and advise the neighbors to get
someone on the case.



Is there an easy way to monitor your house via internet. If you're
traveling on vacation it still would be nice to know the heat is
working.

There must a way to do it, I'm not sure how you set up your house for
remote access though. But once you manage that, a web cam pointed at
a thermometer would at least let you check what the temperature is.

There is a way to do it.
http://www.sittercity.com/video_moni...?fromsite=true


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

That's the weight I got too. Pretty simple math. I double checked
and a gallon of water is 8.34lb (rounded figure).
So I cant see where that 6,640,000 lb figure came from.

Pulled out the Pocket Ref, and a cubic foot is 62.4#, and 7.48 gallons per
cu/ft. So, that's 8.34 # per gallon. Give or take a tiny bit.

Steve

that spec has been verified and discussed several times already.

--
All you scholars who think bush messed up..... You ain't seen nothin' yet!
Just wait. You'll be cryin' for mercy after a while with Bro Bama





"SteveB" wrote in message
...

That's the weight I got too. Pretty simple math. I double checked
and a gallon of water is 8.34lb (rounded figure).
So I cant see where that 6,640,000 lb figure came from.

Pulled out the Pocket Ref, and a cubic foot is 62.4#, and 7.48 gallons per
cu/ft. So, that's 8.34 # per gallon. Give or take a tiny bit.

Steve

dpb wrote:

snip
Let's see---if it were a 1600 sq-ft area, the volume at 8-ft ceiling
height would be 12,800 cu-ft -- ~96,000 gal (ok, that's pretty near
the 100k earlier guess) == ~~6,640,000 lb-wt

That would translate to a distributed lateral load of ~5200 lb-f/sq-ft
or 36 psi. That's expecting the house to hold the equivalent of 2-1/2
atmospheres w/ no apparent failures (even bowing walls aren't visible
in the pictures to any extent)--ain't agonna' happen.
snip

I think you're off by a factor of 10.

8 feet * .433 psi/ft is only about 3.5 psi.


--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Jan 18, 2:17*pm, zxcvbob wrote:

But there's no way to actually freeze that much water in a week or two
of cold weather.

How about "a little at a time" as it flows to and reaches the
outermost points?

There's way too much latent heat of fusion to
overcome, plus the house (and the outer layer of ice) would insulate it.

Insulation works both ways.

So I'm still calling "BS". *I'm also glad I don't have to clean up the mess.

I think I'd use a track hoe.

I'm not exactly convinced I'm looking at a house full of water myself;
16,000 cu ft. would hold 998,000 gallons, if I'm drink not too cipher
much, or about 8M pounds.

But, ISTM, it might freeze in a manner and form to support itself,
from the outside in, and thereby escape from expanding to a degree to
damage even the windows, because there's only gravity to overcome
nearer the center.

It's fun to try to think about.
-----

- gpsman

In article , CJT wrote:
dpb wrote:

snip
Let's see---if it were a 1600 sq-ft area, the volume at 8-ft ceiling
height would be 12,800 cu-ft -- ~96,000 gal (ok, that's pretty near
the 100k earlier guess) == ~~6,640,000 lb-wt

That would translate to a distributed lateral load of ~5200 lb-f/sq-ft
or 36 psi. That's expecting the house to hold the equivalent of 2-1/2
atmospheres w/ no apparent failures (even bowing walls aren't visible
in the pictures to any extent)--ain't agonna' happen.
snip

I think you're off by a factor of 10.

He's off by a lot more than that. A gallon of water weighs about 8-1/3 pounds,
so 96,000 gallons would weigh 800,000 pounds, not 6.6 million.

8 feet * .433 psi/ft is only about 3.5 psi.

800,000 pounds / 1600 sf = 500 pounds / sf = 0.29 psi.

SteveB wrote:

Pulled out the Pocket Ref, and a cubic foot is 62.4#, and
7.48 gallons per cu/ft. So, that's 8.34 # per gallon.
Give or take a tiny bit.

A liter of water weighs 1 kg. When frozen, it's weight will
still be 1 kg. However, water expands on solidification and
the density of ice is .917 kg/l. That means 1 kg of ice is
1.0905 liters.

Thus, this soon to be demolished house with it's 100,000
gallons of water has 109,050+ gallons of ice has had its
foundation pushed out by the freezing of water and will
have its fundation sucked back in by the thaw.

Dick

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , CJT wrote:

dpb wrote:

snip

Let's see---if it were a 1600 sq-ft area, the volume at 8-ft ceiling
height would be 12,800 cu-ft -- ~96,000 gal (ok, that's pretty near
the 100k earlier guess) == ~~6,640,000 lb-wt

That would translate to a distributed lateral load of ~5200 lb-f/sq-ft
or 36 psi. That's expecting the house to hold the equivalent of 2-1/2
atmospheres w/ no apparent failures (even bowing walls aren't visible
in the pictures to any extent)--ain't agonna' happen.

snip

I think you're off by a factor of 10.


He's off by a lot more than that. A gallon of water weighs about 8-1/3 pounds,
so 96,000 gallons would weigh 800,000 pounds, not 6.6 million.

Suppose for a moment that your numbers are correct.

6,600,000/800,000 = 8.25, not all that different from "a factor of 10."


8 feet * .433 psi/ft is only about 3.5 psi.


800,000 pounds / 1600 sf = 500 pounds / sf = 0.29 psi.

500/144 = 3.47, roughly what I said.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:58:21 -0600, Jimw wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:28:09 -0500, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:54:32 -0800 (PST), dpb wrote:

Let's see---if it were a 1600 sq-ft area, the volume at 8-ft ceiling
height would be 12,800 cu-ft -- ~96,000 gal (ok, that's pretty near
the 100k earlier guess) == ~~6,640,000 lb-wt

I don't follow this. A gallon of water weighs about 8.34 pounds (depending
on the temperature). So I get 834,000 pounds. You must be using the weight
of a cubic foot of water.

Don www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

That's the weight I got too. Pretty simple math. I double checked
and a gallon of water is 8.34lb (rounded figure).
So I cant see where that 6,640,000 lb figure came from.

However, even if half the water went into the basement or down a
drain, that would still be 417,000 LBS or 209 (rounded) TONS.
No wooden structure could handle that. I farm, and years ago I tried
to unload a round bale of hay, (which weighed about 3/4 ton). using 3
2x6 boards as a ramp. Sure enough, all 3 boards broke as the bale got
midway down the ramp. Then the bale rolled down a hill, busted down a
fence, and finally stopped leaving a large dent in an old junker car.
Fortunately the car was going to the scrap yard, so it did not matter.
On the other hand, the busted fence left a few horses an opportunity
to escape and I spent much of the day chasing after them. I finally
got them, then spent the rest of the day repairing the fence. Not one
of my most brilliant days!!!

Jim
Gotta remember the ice would be pretty well self supporting as a
monolithic block with the edges on the foundation walls, and the
center beam in the middle. It would LIKELY have frozen in layers as
the water flowed out.