Please see me prior post on Nov 2, 2008. It's subject line is Help!!

This stupid ******* is trying to screw us and I suspect he'll win. I believe
he's aiming for his alleged
retainer of $1k. I've emailed a lawyer - a personal friend - for a sanity
"check." (what else can I call it?) Neither my wife nor I recall his
mentioning the $1k retainer he mentioned to us. He
also never mentioned arbitration or three-fourths of what's in the proposal
that I previously posted.

God, I feel stupid Stupid!

His "Phase One Proposal" to which he refers ends with the following:
"This proposal is good for five (5) days only, unless initiated. Once
initiated, it can be terminated by either party, in writing, at any time,
with a minimum of one week of notice, when the obligations of each party,
relative to this proposal have been fulfilled to date. Retainer amount is
non-refundable once contract has been initiated. All parties agree to
arbitrate any disputes which may arise, with respect to their specific
responsibilities as outlined in this proposal."

We sent him an email yesterday stating that we will not be using him. That
was in response to his email asking for our response to his "proposal." I
hadn't replied; that was my way of not accepting the "proposal." "good for
five days only, unless initiated." Yeah, right, we pay him for work we did
not authorize. Shiit. As I said, he alleges that we agreed to a $1000
retainer. That's news to me and to my wife.and I think that's what he's
trying to weedle out of us. He never mentioned arbitration or anything.
Frickin' prick is lying though his teeth.

-----
Here's his frikin' email:
My name & email address was here


"his is a bit of a problem for me, as you gave me verbal authorization to
spend up to 8 hours putting together a drawing when we met at your condo.
Beyond that, I talked to two different contractors, one extensively about
your project.

Also, I did what you asked me to do, in terms of writing you an email about
the floor construction, putting the preliminary plan together, which takes
time, as does the coordination time I would further spend with each of the
contractors. My proposal was reflective of this. Similarly, both
contractors I recommended to you would have you sign a proposal before
beginning any work, based on my drawing or someone else's.

I asked you to call me if you had any questions about the proposal I sent.
Two weeks have passed and I heard nothing from you to contradict what you
had asked me to do, all of which takes time. How do you suggest we handle
this? It is unfair to me to leave me hanging, after you praised my
methodology in person, when we talked, since I my research made you aware of
both the floor situation and the permitting process involved.

Again, began this work on good faith and my belief that I would be paid for
my time. I have 8 hours of additonal time into this that I believe I need to
be compensated for, what should we do about it?

I would appreciate a timely response. Thank you."
--------

Jesus! It's my own fault. I didn't check the guy out. His name was given
to me by

Won't touch either of 'em with a ten foot pole.

Ask him for what he has in writing. Or send him an email stating
that the verbal agreement was that a signed contract/proposal was
required before work would commence or money would change hands. This
would cast doubt on any "verbal agreement". He sounds like a scam
artist plain and simple. He wont "win" anything unless you cave in
and pay him.


On Nov 14, 6:59*pm, "Info" wrote:
Please see me prior post on Nov 2, 2008. *It's subject line is Help!!

This stupid ******* is trying to screw us and I suspect he'll win. I believe
he's aiming for his alleged
retainer of $1k. I've emailed a lawyer - a personal friend - for a sanity
"check." (what else can I call it?) *Neither my wife nor I recall his
mentioning the $1k retainer he mentioned to us. *He
also never mentioned arbitration or three-fourths of what's in the proposal
that I previously posted.

God, I feel stupid *Stupid!

His "Phase One Proposal" to which he refers ends with the following:
"This proposal is good for five (5) days only, unless initiated. Once
initiated, it can be terminated by either party, in writing, at any time,
with a minimum of one week of notice, when the obligations of each party,
relative to this proposal have been fulfilled to date. Retainer amount is
non-refundable once contract has been initiated. All parties agree to
arbitrate any disputes which may arise, with respect to their specific
responsibilities as outlined in this proposal."

We sent him an email yesterday stating that we will not be using him. *That
was in response to his email asking for our response to his "proposal." *I
hadn't replied; that was my way of not accepting the "proposal." *"good for
five days only, unless initiated." *Yeah, right, we pay him for work we did
not authorize. *Shiit. *As I said, he alleges that we agreed to a $1000
retainer. *That's news to me and to my wife.and I think that's what he's
trying to weedle out of us. *He never mentioned arbitration or anything..
Frickin' prick is lying though his teeth.

-----
Here's his frikin' email:
My name & email address was here

"his is a bit of a problem for me, as you gave me verbal authorization to
spend up to 8 hours putting together a drawing when we met at your condo.
Beyond that, I talked to two different contractors, one extensively about
your project.

Also, I did what you asked me to do, in terms of writing you an email about
the floor construction, putting the preliminary plan together, which takes
time, as does the coordination time I would further spend with each of the
contractors. My proposal was reflective of this. *Similarly, both
contractors I recommended to you would have you sign a proposal before
beginning any work, based on my drawing or someone else's.

I asked you to call me if you had any questions about the proposal I sent..
Two weeks have passed and I heard nothing from you to contradict what you
had asked me to do, all of which takes time. *How do you suggest we handle
this? *It is unfair to me to leave me hanging, after you praised my
methodology in person, when we talked, since I my research made you aware of
both the floor situation and the permitting process involved.

Again, began this work on good faith and my belief that I would be paid for
my time. I have 8 hours of additonal time into this that I believe I need to
be compensated for, what should we do about it?

I would appreciate a timely response. *Thank you."
--------

Jesus! It's my own fault. *I didn't check the guy out. *His name was given
to me by

"Info" wrote in message
diainc...
Please see me prior post on Nov 2, 2008. It's subject line is Help!!

This stupid ******* is trying to screw us and I suspect he'll win. I
believe he's aiming for his alleged
retainer of $1k. I've emailed a lawyer - a personal friend - for a sanity
"check." (what else can I call it?) Neither my wife nor I recall his
mentioning the $1k retainer he mentioned to us. He
also never mentioned arbitration or three-fourths of what's in the
proposal that I previously posted.

God, I feel stupid Stupid!

His "Phase One Proposal" to which he refers ends with the following:
"This proposal is good for five (5) days only, unless initiated. Once
initiated, it can be terminated by either party, in writing, at any time,
with a minimum of one week of notice, when the obligations of each party,
relative to this proposal have been fulfilled to date. Retainer amount is
non-refundable once contract has been initiated. All parties agree to
arbitrate any disputes which may arise, with respect to their specific
responsibilities as outlined in this proposal."

We sent him an email yesterday stating that we will not be using him.
That
was in response to his email asking for our response to his "proposal." I
hadn't replied; that was my way of not accepting the "proposal." "good
for
five days only, unless initiated." Yeah, right, we pay him for work we
did
not authorize. Shiit. As I said, he alleges that we agreed to a $1000
retainer. That's news to me and to my wife.and I think that's what he's
trying to weedle out of us. He never mentioned arbitration or anything.
Frickin' prick is lying though his teeth.

-----
Here's his frikin' email:
My name & email address was here


"his is a bit of a problem for me, as you gave me verbal authorization to
spend up to 8 hours putting together a drawing when we met at your condo.
Beyond that, I talked to two different contractors, one extensively about
your project.

Also, I did what you asked me to do, in terms of writing you an email
about
the floor construction, putting the preliminary plan together, which takes
time, as does the coordination time I would further spend with each of the
contractors. My proposal was reflective of this. Similarly, both
contractors I recommended to you would have you sign a proposal before
beginning any work, based on my drawing or someone else's.

I asked you to call me if you had any questions about the proposal I sent.
Two weeks have passed and I heard nothing from you to contradict what you
had asked me to do, all of which takes time. How do you suggest we handle
this? It is unfair to me to leave me hanging, after you praised my
methodology in person, when we talked, since I my research made you aware
of
both the floor situation and the permitting process involved.

Again, began this work on good faith and my belief that I would be paid
for
my time. I have 8 hours of additonal time into this that I believe I need
to
be compensated for, what should we do about it?

I would appreciate a timely response. Thank you."
--------

Jesus! It's my own fault. I didn't check the guy out. His name was given
to me by


I'm not a lawyer but verbal contracts don't mean a thing unless there is
some physical evidence to back them up or *both* parties agree there is an
agreement. All you have to say is unequivocally "there was no contract".
It's your word against his and he is screwed in court (Judge Judy 101).

Olddog

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:47:43 GMT, "olddog"
wrote:


I'm not a lawyer but verbal contracts don't mean a thing unless there is
some physical evidence to back them up or *both* parties agree there is an
agreement. All you have to say is unequivocally "there was no contract".
It's your word against his and he is screwed in court (Judge Judy 101).

Olddog


Howdy,

It may be better than that...

If I understand this correctly, there were three people
present two of whom believe that no agreement was made.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Nov 14, 6:59*pm, "Info" wrote:
Please see me prior post on Nov 2, 2008. *It's subject line is Help!!

This stupid ******* is trying to screw us and I suspect he'll win. I believe
he's aiming for his alleged
retainer of $1k. I've emailed a lawyer - a personal friend - for a sanity
"check." (what else can I call it?) *Neither my wife nor I recall his
mentioning the $1k retainer he mentioned to us. *He
also never mentioned arbitration or three-fourths of what's in the proposal
that I previously posted.

God, I feel stupid *Stupid!

His "Phase One Proposal" to which he refers ends with the following:
"This proposal is good for five (5) days only, unless initiated. Once
initiated, it can be terminated by either party, in writing, at any time,
with a minimum of one week of notice, when the obligations of each party,
relative to this proposal have been fulfilled to date. Retainer amount is
non-refundable once contract has been initiated. All parties agree to
arbitrate any disputes which may arise, with respect to their specific
responsibilities as outlined in this proposal."

We sent him an email yesterday stating that we will not be using him. *That
was in response to his email asking for our response to his "proposal." *I
hadn't replied; that was my way of not accepting the "proposal." *"good for
five days only, unless initiated." *Yeah, right, we pay him for work we did
not authorize. *Shiit. *As I said, he alleges that we agreed to a $1000
retainer. *That's news to me and to my wife.and I think that's what he's
trying to weedle out of us. *He never mentioned arbitration or anything..
Frickin' prick is lying though his teeth.

-----
Here's his frikin' email:
My name & email address was here

"his is a bit of a problem for me, as you gave me verbal authorization to
spend up to 8 hours putting together a drawing when we met at your condo.
Beyond that, I talked to two different contractors, one extensively about
your project.

Also, I did what you asked me to do, in terms of writing you an email about
the floor construction, putting the preliminary plan together, which takes
time, as does the coordination time I would further spend with each of the
contractors. My proposal was reflective of this. *Similarly, both
contractors I recommended to you would have you sign a proposal before
beginning any work, based on my drawing or someone else's.

I asked you to call me if you had any questions about the proposal I sent..
Two weeks have passed and I heard nothing from you to contradict what you
had asked me to do, all of which takes time. *How do you suggest we handle
this? *It is unfair to me to leave me hanging, after you praised my
methodology in person, when we talked, since I my research made you aware of
both the floor situation and the permitting process involved.

Again, began this work on good faith and my belief that I would be paid for
my time. I have 8 hours of additonal time into this that I believe I need to
be compensated for, what should we do about it?

I would appreciate a timely response. *Thank you."
--------

Jesus! It's my own fault. *I didn't check the guy out. *His name was given
to me by

He wrote: "Similarly, both contractors I recommended to you would have
you sign a proposal before beginning any work, based on my drawing or
someone else's."

Similarly to what? You didn't sign any proposal agreeing to
compensate him for any work. If he's saying he works "similarly" to
the other 2 contractors, then he shoudn't have done any work without a
signed proposal.

Apologize for the misunderstanding and tell him (nicely) that if he
wants to take you to court to contact your lawyer. Give him your
friend's name and number - or better yet, give him his business card
to show him you are serious. I'll wager he never even makes the call.

BTW - you said: "I've emailed a lawyer - a personal friend - for a
sanity check.

How did the lawyer respond?

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Nov 14, 6:59 pm, "Info" wrote:
Please see me prior post on Nov 2, 2008. It's subject line is Help!!

This stupid ******* is trying to screw us and I suspect he'll win. I
believe
he's aiming for his alleged
retainer of $1k. I've emailed a lawyer - a personal friend - for a sanity
"check." (what else can I call it?) Neither my wife nor I recall his
mentioning the $1k retainer he mentioned to us. He
also never mentioned arbitration or three-fourths of what's in the
proposal
that I previously posted.

God, I feel stupid Stupid!

His "Phase One Proposal" to which he refers ends with the following:
"This proposal is good for five (5) days only, unless initiated. Once
initiated, it can be terminated by either party, in writing, at any time,
with a minimum of one week of notice, when the obligations of each party,
relative to this proposal have been fulfilled to date. Retainer amount is
non-refundable once contract has been initiated. All parties agree to
arbitrate any disputes which may arise, with respect to their specific
responsibilities as outlined in this proposal."

We sent him an email yesterday stating that we will not be using him. That
was in response to his email asking for our response to his "proposal." I
hadn't replied; that was my way of not accepting the "proposal." "good for
five days only, unless initiated." Yeah, right, we pay him for work we did
not authorize. Shiit. As I said, he alleges that we agreed to a $1000
retainer. That's news to me and to my wife.and I think that's what he's
trying to weedle out of us. He never mentioned arbitration or anything.
Frickin' prick is lying though his teeth.

-----
Here's his frikin' email:
My name & email address was here

"his is a bit of a problem for me, as you gave me verbal authorization to
spend up to 8 hours putting together a drawing when we met at your condo.
Beyond that, I talked to two different contractors, one extensively about
your project.

Also, I did what you asked me to do, in terms of writing you an email
about
the floor construction, putting the preliminary plan together, which takes
time, as does the coordination time I would further spend with each of the
contractors. My proposal was reflective of this. Similarly, both
contractors I recommended to you would have you sign a proposal before
beginning any work, based on my drawing or someone else's.

I asked you to call me if you had any questions about the proposal I sent.
Two weeks have passed and I heard nothing from you to contradict what you
had asked me to do, all of which takes time. How do you suggest we handle
this? It is unfair to me to leave me hanging, after you praised my
methodology in person, when we talked, since I my research made you aware
of
both the floor situation and the permitting process involved.

Again, began this work on good faith and my belief that I would be paid
for
my time. I have 8 hours of additonal time into this that I believe I need
to
be compensated for, what should we do about it?

I would appreciate a timely response. Thank you."
--------

Jesus! It's my own fault. I didn't check the guy out. His name was given
to me by

He wrote: "Similarly, both contractors I recommended to you would have
you sign a proposal before beginning any work, based on my drawing or
someone else's."

Similarly to what? You didn't sign any proposal agreeing to
compensate him for any work. If he's saying he works "similarly" to
the other 2 contractors, then he shoudn't have done any work without a
signed proposal.

Apologize for the misunderstanding and tell him (nicely) that if he
wants to take you to court to contact your lawyer. Give him your
friend's name and number - or better yet, give him his business card
to show him you are serious. I'll wager he never even makes the call.

BTW - you said: "I've emailed a lawyer - a personal friend - for a
sanity check.

How did the lawyer respond?
========

His reply is below. I know the jerk is just trying to rip the "retainer"
out of me. I know enough about contract law to It's the frikin principle
of the thing. You'll laugh at this: Have these people no shame? Why not
just steal some kid's lunch money? The gall of this guy. I can go to the
local TV news channels "problem solvers", if need be. The press is the last
thing the prick wants. I'm doing nothing but send the email for now.



! Here's a free suggestion, worth exactly what you are paying for it
(which, by the way, is nothing - this is a birthday present - happy
birthday, belated or otherwise) - I would write him something in simple
declarative statements, along the following lines: We called you. You came.
No retainer was discussed. We are both absolutely clear about this. You
said you would send a proposal. You did. It was good for five days only.
We didn't like it. We didn't respond. Your proposal expired. We never
agreed to pay you to make a proposal, and we don't owe you any money.



See what happens. He can't afford an attorney for this, either. He can take
you to small claims, I guess, but he can't use an attorney there, either,
and so it will be a fair fight. And there are two of you, and one of him,
and I don't like his facts. Good luck.

On Nov 14, 5:59*pm, "Info" wrote:
Please see me prior post on Nov 2, 2008. *It's subject line is Help!!

This stupid ******* is trying to screw us and I suspect he'll win. I believe
he's aiming for his alleged
retainer of $1k. I've emailed a lawyer - a personal friend - for a sanity
"check." (what else can I call it?) *Neither my wife nor I recall his
mentioning the $1k retainer he mentioned to us. *He
also never mentioned arbitration or three-fourths of what's in the proposal
that I previously posted.

God, I feel stupid *Stupid!

His "Phase One Proposal" to which he refers ends with the following:
"This proposal is good for five (5) days only, unless initiated. Once
initiated, it can be terminated by either party, in writing, at any time,
with a minimum of one week of notice, when the obligations of each party,
relative to this proposal have been fulfilled to date. Retainer amount is
non-refundable once contract has been initiated. All parties agree to
arbitrate any disputes which may arise, with respect to their specific
responsibilities as outlined in this proposal."

We sent him an email yesterday stating that we will not be using him. *That
was in response to his email asking for our response to his "proposal." *I
hadn't replied; that was my way of not accepting the "proposal." *"good for
five days only, unless initiated." *Yeah, right, we pay him for work we did
not authorize. *Shiit. *As I said, he alleges that we agreed to a $1000
retainer. *That's news to me and to my wife.and I think that's what he's
trying to weedle out of us. *He never mentioned arbitration or anything..
Frickin' prick is lying though his teeth.

-----
Here's his frikin' email:
My name & email address was here

"his is a bit of a problem for me, as you gave me verbal authorization to
spend up to 8 hours putting together a drawing when we met at your condo.
Beyond that, I talked to two different contractors, one extensively about
your project.

Also, I did what you asked me to do, in terms of writing you an email about
the floor construction, putting the preliminary plan together, which takes
time, as does the coordination time I would further spend with each of the
contractors. My proposal was reflective of this. *Similarly, both
contractors I recommended to you would have you sign a proposal before
beginning any work, based on my drawing or someone else's.

I asked you to call me if you had any questions about the proposal I sent..
Two weeks have passed and I heard nothing from you to contradict what you
had asked me to do, all of which takes time. *How do you suggest we handle
this? *It is unfair to me to leave me hanging, after you praised my
methodology in person, when we talked, since I my research made you aware of
both the floor situation and the permitting process involved.

Again, began this work on good faith and my belief that I would be paid for
my time. I have 8 hours of additonal time into this that I believe I need to
be compensated for, what should we do about it?

I would appreciate a timely response. *Thank you."
--------

Jesus! It's my own fault. *I didn't check the guy out. *His name was given
to me by

If you didnt sign anything dont worry, if you did get a registerd
return reciept letter out, Him demanding arbitration means he has had
trouble. The local court house has his cases on file, once to late I
found I hired a guy that lost a case a year. He wants money, forget
it.

Kenneth wrote:
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:47:43 GMT, "olddog"
wrote:


I'm not a lawyer but verbal contracts don't mean a thing unless there is
some physical evidence to back them up or *both* parties agree there is an
agreement. All you have to say is unequivocally "there was no contract".
It's your word against his and he is screwed in court (Judge Judy 101).

Olddog



Howdy,

It may be better than that...

If I understand this correctly, there were three people
present two of whom believe that no agreement was made.

All the best,
I find rather incredulous that he would create a proposal with such
detail regarding remuneration yet he would incur cost without a written
contract. I think he's bluffing.

I'd let him sue. Just don't ignore any suit related documents that you
receive...if you get any.

"Boden" wrote in message I find rather incredulous
that he would create a proposal with such
detail regarding remuneration yet he would incur cost without a written
contract. I think he's bluffing.

I'd let him sue. Just don't ignore any suit related documents that you
receive...if you get any.

I had a situation years ago with my ex-husband's finances. After the divorce
I began to receive phone calls and letters demanding payment on his accounts
that (we had kept all finances separate). I simply said, "Do you have a
piece of paper with my signature indicating that I am responsible for this
debt? No? Then never contact me again." Click. I never had anyone contact me
more than once. If you didn't sign anything, how can it be a "contract"?

h wrote:

I had a situation years ago with my ex-husband's finances. After the
divorce I began to receive phone calls and letters demanding payment
on his accounts that (we had kept all finances separate). I simply
said, "Do you have a piece of paper with my signature indicating that
I am responsible for this debt? No? Then never contact me again."
Click. I never had anyone contact me more than once. If you didn't
sign anything, how can it be a "contract"?

A "contract" is a meeting of the minds regarding an exchange of goods or
services for something of value. Only in a few specific instances must the
contract be written. There are typically six categories of contracts that
need to be in writing:

* Contracts involving marriage (including pre-nuptial agreements)
* Contracts that convey ownership of real property (land)
* Contracts that take more than one year to complete.
* Contracts for the sale of goods (not services) above a statutory amount
(usually quite high).
* Contracts by the executor of an estate where debts are paid from the
executor's accounts.
* Contracts where one party acts as guarantor for a third persons debt.

These rules were first formulated in 1677 and was called the "Statute of
Frauds and Perjuries" and the list is still known by the name "Statute of
Frauds." I was taught to remember the list by use of the mnemonic MYLEGS
(Marriage, Year, Land, Executor, Goods, Surety).

Therefore, a vanishingly small number of contracts NEED to be in writing. A
perceptible number of contracts actually ARE written down. 99% of
contracts - exchanges of goods and services we undertake every day - are not
written.

In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states, marriage
is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered into by one
spouse is equally binding on the other.

After the divorce is the key here. The shady bill collecters will try
toget $$$ from anyone they can. Likely the debts are post divorce and
not the poster's obligation


On Nov 15, 4:56*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states, marriage
is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered into by one
spouse is equally binding on the other.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
h wrote:

I had a situation years ago with my ex-husband's finances. After the
divorce I began to receive phone calls and letters demanding payment
on his accounts that (we had kept all finances separate). I simply
said, "Do you have a piece of paper with my signature indicating that
I am responsible for this debt? No? Then never contact me again."
Click. I never had anyone contact me more than once. If you didn't
sign anything, how can it be a "contract"?

A "contract" is a meeting of the minds regarding an exchange of goods or
services for something of value. Only in a few specific instances must the
contract be written. There are typically six categories of contracts that
need to be in writing:

* Contracts involving marriage (including pre-nuptial agreements)
* Contracts that convey ownership of real property (land)
* Contracts that take more than one year to complete.
* Contracts for the sale of goods (not services) above a statutory amount
(usually quite high).
* Contracts by the executor of an estate where debts are paid from the
executor's accounts.
* Contracts where one party acts as guarantor for a third persons debt.

These rules were first formulated in 1677 and was called the "Statute of
Frauds and Perjuries" and the list is still known by the name "Statute of
Frauds." I was taught to remember the list by use of the mnemonic MYLEGS
(Marriage, Year, Land, Executor, Goods, Surety).

Therefore, a vanishingly small number of contracts NEED to be in writing.
A perceptible number of contracts actually ARE written down. 99% of
contracts - exchanges of goods and services we undertake every day - are
not written.

In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states,
marriage is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered into
by one spouse is equally binding on the other.

He's absolutely right. I learned that in a business law class in night
school 25 years ago. That's why I told him to put in writing. I know I'm
right in my dealings with him. It's just one more thing to deal with.
Here's my response to his email:
You brought plans from the Department of Planning and Development to my wife
and me at our request and we paid you the price we agreed on for those plans
at that time.

You proposed in that meeting to draw up plans which you could submit to
contractors. I asked you to submit the proposal in writing. At no time did
we discuss or agree to a retainer, hourly rates, feasibility study,
arbitration or any of the specifics in your proposal. My wife and I are
absolutely certain of this.


The proposal that you submitted by email on October 30 was in the form of a
Word document titled "Dana Design Proposal.doc " and dated October 30,
2008. The last paragraph expressly states "this proposal is good for five
(5) days only."

Your proposal was unacceptable so we did not respond. Your proposal
expired. We never agreed to pay you to make a proposal, and we do not owe
you any money.

On Nov 15, 4:56*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:


In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states, marriage
is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered into by one
spouse is equally binding on the other.

Yikes! That's just insane! Why does anyone ever get married in those
states? Co-mingling finances is a recipe for disaster. Glad I live in
NY. The funny part about the collection agencies is that they just
couldn't wrap their heads around the idea that my ex and I never had
the same last name and that I never had any cards or charging
privileges on any of his accounts, and vice versa. So just exactly why
would they expect me to pay his debts? I certainly never expected him
to pay mine.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 15, 4:56 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:


In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states,
marriage
is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered into by one
spouse is equally binding on the other.

Yikes! That's just insane! Why does anyone ever get married in those
states? Co-mingling finances is a recipe for disaster. Glad I live in
NY. The funny part about the collection agencies is that they just
couldn't wrap their heads around the idea that my ex and I never had
the same last name and that I never had any cards or charging
privileges on any of his accounts, and vice versa. So just exactly why
would they expect me to pay his debts? I certainly never expected him
to pay mine.

----
My grandfather, father, and I have the same first name, middle initial and
last name. The middle names are different. I've used my middle name since
the dawn of time. My grandfather started a business in the 20s, "First
Name, middle initial, last name, Inc." The company dissolved in '90. Two
collection agencies have contacted me over the past 15 years asserting that
I owed the State of New York taxes for the company. I set them straight.
Heck, the Social Security Administration has my name listed as "Middle name,
first initial, last name." It's an unusual middle name, but a darn good
one, and it screws the world up.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:05:56 -0800, "Info"
wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
om...
h wrote:

I had a situation years ago with my ex-husband's finances. After the
divorce I began to receive phone calls and letters demanding payment
on his accounts that (we had kept all finances separate). I simply
said, "Do you have a piece of paper with my signature indicating that
I am responsible for this debt? No? Then never contact me again."
Click. I never had anyone contact me more than once. If you didn't
sign anything, how can it be a "contract"?

A "contract" is a meeting of the minds regarding an exchange of goods or
services for something of value. Only in a few specific instances must the
contract be written. There are typically six categories of contracts that
need to be in writing:

* Contracts involving marriage (including pre-nuptial agreements)
* Contracts that convey ownership of real property (land)
* Contracts that take more than one year to complete.
* Contracts for the sale of goods (not services) above a statutory amount
(usually quite high).
* Contracts by the executor of an estate where debts are paid from the
executor's accounts.
* Contracts where one party acts as guarantor for a third persons debt.

These rules were first formulated in 1677 and was called the "Statute of
Frauds and Perjuries" and the list is still known by the name "Statute of
Frauds." I was taught to remember the list by use of the mnemonic MYLEGS
(Marriage, Year, Land, Executor, Goods, Surety).

Therefore, a vanishingly small number of contracts NEED to be in writing.
A perceptible number of contracts actually ARE written down. 99% of
contracts - exchanges of goods and services we undertake every day - are
not written.

In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states,
marriage is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered into
by one spouse is equally binding on the other.

He's absolutely right. I learned that in a business law class in night
school 25 years ago. That's why I told him to put in writing. I know I'm
right in my dealings with him. It's just one more thing to deal with.
Here's my response to his email:
You brought plans from the Department of Planning and Development to my wife
and me at our request and we paid you the price we agreed on for those plans
at that time.

You proposed in that meeting to draw up plans which you could submit to
contractors. I asked you to submit the proposal in writing. At no time did
we discuss or agree to a retainer, hourly rates, feasibility study,
arbitration or any of the specifics in your proposal. My wife and I are
absolutely certain of this.


The proposal that you submitted by email on October 30 was in the form of a
Word document titled "Dana Design Proposal.doc " and dated October 30,
2008. The last paragraph expressly states "this proposal is good for five
(5) days only."

Your proposal was unacceptable so we did not respond. Your proposal
expired. We never agreed to pay you to make a proposal, and we do not owe
you any money.



Howdy,

No lawyer I, but...

'Seems like a fine response. Clear, fully descriptive, and
firm in tone, but...

When, or if, you get a response, just ignore it.

You have no obligation to this person whatever (in fact, you
don't owe even your carefully crafted response above.)

So, in the unlikely event that you get a response, instead
of putting more time into this mess, take your wife to
dinner.

(and after that, remember to mention your experience to
folks you know in your community...)

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

wrote:
On Nov 15, 4:56 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:


In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states,
marriage is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered
into by one spouse is equally binding on the other.

Yikes! That's just insane! Why does anyone ever get married in those
states? Co-mingling finances is a recipe for disaster. Glad I live in
NY.

You're right about co-mingling. Even in community property states, there are
provisions for separate property, usually property obtained prior to the
marriage or via inheritance. Without diligence, this separate property can
easily be converted to community property by co-mingling.

But it averages out. We don't have alimony.

I'm not a lawyer but verbal contracts don't mean a thing unless there is
some physical evidence to back them up or *both* parties agree there is an
agreement.

Pah. Next year you'll have to agree that you agreed there was an
agreement.

A verbal agreement MEANS very much.

Of course getting it enforced in court is a different story. Courts
make it very handy to lie your way out of an agreement.

"Kenneth" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:05:56 -0800, "Info"
wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
news:tvCdnWDPz9WH24LUnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@earthlink. com...
h wrote:

I had a situation years ago with my ex-husband's finances. After the
divorce I began to receive phone calls and letters demanding payment
on his accounts that (we had kept all finances separate). I simply
said, "Do you have a piece of paper with my signature indicating that
I am responsible for this debt? No? Then never contact me again."
Click. I never had anyone contact me more than once. If you didn't
sign anything, how can it be a "contract"?

A "contract" is a meeting of the minds regarding an exchange of goods or
services for something of value. Only in a few specific instances must
the
contract be written. There are typically six categories of contracts
that
need to be in writing:

* Contracts involving marriage (including pre-nuptial agreements)
* Contracts that convey ownership of real property (land)
* Contracts that take more than one year to complete.
* Contracts for the sale of goods (not services) above a statutory
amount
(usually quite high).
* Contracts by the executor of an estate where debts are paid from the
executor's accounts.
* Contracts where one party acts as guarantor for a third persons debt.

These rules were first formulated in 1677 and was called the "Statute of
Frauds and Perjuries" and the list is still known by the name "Statute
of
Frauds." I was taught to remember the list by use of the mnemonic MYLEGS
(Marriage, Year, Land, Executor, Goods, Surety).

Therefore, a vanishingly small number of contracts NEED to be in
writing.
A perceptible number of contracts actually ARE written down. 99% of
contracts - exchanges of goods and services we undertake every day - are
not written.

In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states,
marriage is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered into
by one spouse is equally binding on the other.

He's absolutely right. I learned that in a business law class in night
school 25 years ago. That's why I told him to put in writing. I know I'm
right in my dealings with him. It's just one more thing to deal with.
Here's my response to his email:
You brought plans from the Department of Planning and Development to my
wife
and me at our request and we paid you the price we agreed on for those
plans
at that time.

You proposed in that meeting to draw up plans which you could submit to
contractors. I asked you to submit the proposal in writing. At no time
did
we discuss or agree to a retainer, hourly rates, feasibility study,
arbitration or any of the specifics in your proposal. My wife and I are
absolutely certain of this.


The proposal that you submitted by email on October 30 was in the form of
a
Word document titled "Dana Design Proposal.doc " and dated October 30,
2008. The last paragraph expressly states "this proposal is good for five
(5) days only."

Your proposal was unacceptable so we did not respond. Your proposal
expired. We never agreed to pay you to make a proposal, and we do not
owe
you any money.



Howdy,

No lawyer I, but...

'Seems like a fine response. Clear, fully descriptive, and
firm in tone, but...

When, or if, you get a response, just ignore it.

You have no obligation to this person whatever (in fact, you
don't owe even your carefully crafted response above.)

So, in the unlikely event that you get a response, instead
of putting more time into this mess, take your wife to
dinner.

(and after that, remember to mention your experience to
folks you know in your community...)


Oh great...then he'll come after him for slander. LOL

Olddog

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:49:44 GMT, "olddog" wrote:


"Kenneth" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:05:56 -0800, "Info"
wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
news:tvCdnWDPz9WH24LUnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@earthlink .com...
h wrote:

I had a situation years ago with my ex-husband's finances. After the
divorce I began to receive phone calls and letters demanding payment
on his accounts that (we had kept all finances separate). I simply
said, "Do you have a piece of paper with my signature indicating that
I am responsible for this debt? No? Then never contact me again."
Click. I never had anyone contact me more than once. If you didn't
sign anything, how can it be a "contract"?

A "contract" is a meeting of the minds regarding an exchange of goods or
services for something of value. Only in a few specific instances must
the
contract be written. There are typically six categories of contracts
that
need to be in writing:

* Contracts involving marriage (including pre-nuptial agreements)
* Contracts that convey ownership of real property (land)
* Contracts that take more than one year to complete.
* Contracts for the sale of goods (not services) above a statutory
amount
(usually quite high).
* Contracts by the executor of an estate where debts are paid from the
executor's accounts.
* Contracts where one party acts as guarantor for a third persons debt.

These rules were first formulated in 1677 and was called the "Statute of
Frauds and Perjuries" and the list is still known by the name "Statute
of
Frauds." I was taught to remember the list by use of the mnemonic MYLEGS
(Marriage, Year, Land, Executor, Goods, Surety).

Therefore, a vanishingly small number of contracts NEED to be in
writing.
A perceptible number of contracts actually ARE written down. 99% of
contracts - exchanges of goods and services we undertake every day - are
not written.

In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states,
marriage is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered into
by one spouse is equally binding on the other.

He's absolutely right. I learned that in a business law class in night
school 25 years ago. That's why I told him to put in writing. I know I'm
right in my dealings with him. It's just one more thing to deal with.
Here's my response to his email:
You brought plans from the Department of Planning and Development to my
wife
and me at our request and we paid you the price we agreed on for those
plans
at that time.

You proposed in that meeting to draw up plans which you could submit to
contractors. I asked you to submit the proposal in writing. At no time
did
we discuss or agree to a retainer, hourly rates, feasibility study,
arbitration or any of the specifics in your proposal. My wife and I are
absolutely certain of this.


The proposal that you submitted by email on October 30 was in the form of
a
Word document titled "Dana Design Proposal.doc " and dated October 30,
2008. The last paragraph expressly states "this proposal is good for five
(5) days only."

Your proposal was unacceptable so we did not respond. Your proposal
expired. We never agreed to pay you to make a proposal, and we do not
owe
you any money.



Howdy,

No lawyer I, but...

'Seems like a fine response. Clear, fully descriptive, and
firm in tone, but...

When, or if, you get a response, just ignore it.

You have no obligation to this person whatever (in fact, you
don't owe even your carefully crafted response above.)

So, in the unlikely event that you get a response, instead
of putting more time into this mess, take your wife to
dinner.

(and after that, remember to mention your experience to
folks you know in your community...)


Oh great...then he'll come after him for slander. LOL

Olddog

Truth is an excellent defense against slander suits.

wrote in message
news
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:49:44 GMT, "olddog" wrote:


"Kenneth" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:05:56 -0800, "Info"
wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
news:tvCdnWDPz9WH24LUnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@earthlin k.com...
h wrote:

I had a situation years ago with my ex-husband's finances. After the
divorce I began to receive phone calls and letters demanding payment
on his accounts that (we had kept all finances separate). I simply
said, "Do you have a piece of paper with my signature indicating that
I am responsible for this debt? No? Then never contact me again."
Click. I never had anyone contact me more than once. If you didn't
sign anything, how can it be a "contract"?

A "contract" is a meeting of the minds regarding an exchange of goods
or
services for something of value. Only in a few specific instances must
the
contract be written. There are typically six categories of contracts
that
need to be in writing:

* Contracts involving marriage (including pre-nuptial agreements)
* Contracts that convey ownership of real property (land)
* Contracts that take more than one year to complete.
* Contracts for the sale of goods (not services) above a statutory
amount
(usually quite high).
* Contracts by the executor of an estate where debts are paid from the
executor's accounts.
* Contracts where one party acts as guarantor for a third persons
debt.

These rules were first formulated in 1677 and was called the "Statute
of
Frauds and Perjuries" and the list is still known by the name "Statute
of
Frauds." I was taught to remember the list by use of the mnemonic
MYLEGS
(Marriage, Year, Land, Executor, Goods, Surety).

Therefore, a vanishingly small number of contracts NEED to be in
writing.
A perceptible number of contracts actually ARE written down. 99% of
contracts - exchanges of goods and services we undertake every day -
are
not written.

In your case, if you lived in a community property state, you are not
required to sign any contract for it to be valid. In those states,
marriage is presumed to be a partnership and any obligation entered
into
by one spouse is equally binding on the other.

He's absolutely right. I learned that in a business law class in night
school 25 years ago. That's why I told him to put in writing. I know
I'm
right in my dealings with him. It's just one more thing to deal with.
Here's my response to his email:
You brought plans from the Department of Planning and Development to my
wife
and me at our request and we paid you the price we agreed on for those
plans
at that time.

You proposed in that meeting to draw up plans which you could submit to
contractors. I asked you to submit the proposal in writing. At no time
did
we discuss or agree to a retainer, hourly rates, feasibility study,
arbitration or any of the specifics in your proposal. My wife and I are
absolutely certain of this.


The proposal that you submitted by email on October 30 was in the form
of
a
Word document titled "Dana Design Proposal.doc " and dated October 30,
2008. The last paragraph expressly states "this proposal is good for
five
(5) days only."

Your proposal was unacceptable so we did not respond. Your proposal
expired. We never agreed to pay you to make a proposal, and we do not
owe
you any money.



Howdy,

No lawyer I, but...

'Seems like a fine response. Clear, fully descriptive, and
firm in tone, but...

When, or if, you get a response, just ignore it.

You have no obligation to this person whatever (in fact, you
don't owe even your carefully crafted response above.)

So, in the unlikely event that you get a response, instead
of putting more time into this mess, take your wife to
dinner.

(and after that, remember to mention your experience to
folks you know in your community...)


Oh great...then he'll come after him for slander. LOL

Olddog

Truth is an excellent defense against slander suits.


I was being facetious. He's shaking him down for one thing, he'll have no
problem with another.

"Info" wrote:
Yikes! That's just insane! Why does anyone ever get married in those
states? Co-mingling finances is a recipe for disaster.

Indeed, its the root of many divorces, money issues.
In the beginning my wife and I co-mingled money and did nothing but
argue, about spending and saving differences.
Then, we split it out, what was hers was hers and what was mine was
mine.
She got an account and I got an account and we got a joint account for
just the joint household bills: house payment, utilities.
Food and other miscellaneous things were paid by each of us
seperately.
And the arguing about money ceased.
We also file taxes seperately too.
We probably pay more that way but again, we argue less, and thats
priceless.

Now, I no longer believe in marriage and believe there is more
liability than it is worth.
The understanding between my lifemate and I is no ones business but
our own and the state needs to stay out of it.