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#1
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
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#2
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
"nospam" wrote in message
. .. http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Don't be cheap, get a newsgroup reader and pay a few bucks for it, or get a free newsgroup reader. :-) |
#3
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:41:25 -0700, "nospam" wrote:
http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Damned if I'd be the least inclined to let the likes of Comcast bugger my usenet access. I know some folks have few (if any) alternatives, but ... the real solution to such problem is to DROP COMCAST (like a hot potato). What would happen if Comcast lost, say, 1kk customers? Note that ATT has dropped only the binaries (all that's required by "The Powers That Be"). AQ "The monkey and the baboon was playing 7-up. The monkey won the money but he scared to pick it up. The monkey stumbled, mama. The baboon fell. The monkey grab the money and he run like hell!" - from "Dirty Motherfuyer", Roosevelt Sykes, around 1935 |
#4
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
It seems to be the way everyone is moving... Usenet is become only good for
binaries anymore! "nospam" wrote in message . .. http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. |
#5
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
Alphonse Q Muthafuyer wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:41:25 -0700, "nospam" wrote: http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Damned if I'd be the least inclined to let the likes of Comcast bugger my usenet access. I know some folks have few (if any) alternatives, but ... the real solution to such problem is to DROP COMCAST (like a hot potato). What would happen if Comcast lost, say, 1kk customers? Note that ATT has dropped only the binaries (all that's required by "The Powers That Be"). Quotes are in the wrong place, IMHO. Should be around 'required'. Like the previous 100 threads on this topic here and elsewhere said, ATT, and many of the others, seized on the kiddie porn crisis du jour out of NY, as an excuse to do something they wanted to do anyway, to lower their overhead. CYA against future legal exposure was just a side bennie. Looks like Comcast is just the latest biggie to take the next logical (to a beancounter) step of stopping news entirely. All those storage arrays and power to run them, especially for binaries, cost a whole lotta money. And since only a small percentage of the paying customers are even aware of them or use them, well, it looks a whole like like a salad bar in a fast food joint, once the fad died down. I'll note that many or most government/corporate sites stopped hosting or passing on news, years ago, once they transitioned from UNIX to NT servers, and GIU desktops, since web sites better fufilled their internal requirements. Been a long time since the bandwidth usage for Usenet was 'lost in the weeds', and a sysadmin could sneak it past corporate. I understand it, but that doesn't mean I gotta like it. -- aem sends.... |
#6
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:51:59 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
I'll note that many or most government/corporate sites stopped hosting or passing on news, years ago, once they transitioned from UNIX to NT servers, and GIU desktops, since web sites better fufilled their internal requirements. Been a long time since the bandwidth usage for Usenet was 'lost in the weeds', and a sysadmin could sneak it past corporate. I remember being able to read newsgroups with trn, years ago, and then we were forced to move to those NT servers, and then trn wasn't available. A sad day. Agent is ok, but I really liked trn. |
#7
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
nospam wrote:
http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Since I'm using Comcast too I looked into the free news servers and this one has 'alt.home repair' and all the other newsgroups I've been following for years. http://www.motzarella.org/ Give it a try... Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight. |
#8
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:41:25 -0700, "nospam" wrote:
http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Howdy, I called Comcast, chose "Modify Service" from the voicemaze, and spoke with a sales person. I explained that I wanted a reduction in my monthly cost because Comcast had apparently decided to decrease the service they had committed to provide me for the price I agreed to pay. He reduced my bill by just over $10 per month for the next six months. Given the rates I would have to pay for direct access to a Usenet server, that will keep me going for years. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
#9
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
Kenneth wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:41:25 -0700, "nospam" wrote: http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Howdy, I called Comcast, chose "Modify Service" from the voicemaze, and spoke with a sales person. I explained that I wanted a reduction in my monthly cost because Comcast had apparently decided to decrease the service they had committed to provide me for the price I agreed to pay. He reduced my bill by just over $10 per month for the next six months. Given the rates I would have to pay for direct access to a Usenet server, that will keep me going for years. All the best, Where are you located?? Lou |
#10
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 02:43:55 -0400, LouB wrote:
Kenneth wrote: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:41:25 -0700, "nospam" wrote: http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Howdy, I called Comcast, chose "Modify Service" from the voicemaze, and spoke with a sales person. I explained that I wanted a reduction in my monthly cost because Comcast had apparently decided to decrease the service they had committed to provide me for the price I agreed to pay. He reduced my bill by just over $10 per month for the next six months. Given the rates I would have to pay for direct access to a Usenet server, that will keep me going for years. All the best, Where are you located?? Lou Big Mistake! They are giving the guy a reduction for 6 months. At the same time, without really stressing the point, they enacted a new term contract locking him in for 2 more years. After 6 months, his rate will go up to one that is higher than his original contract, so they will quickly get that money back. If he wants to cancel, he'll get a whopping "early termination" fee of perhaps a few hundred dollars. |
#11
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 02:43:55 -0400, LouB
wrote: Kenneth wrote: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:41:25 -0700, "nospam" wrote: http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Howdy, I called Comcast, chose "Modify Service" from the voicemaze, and spoke with a sales person. I explained that I wanted a reduction in my monthly cost because Comcast had apparently decided to decrease the service they had committed to provide me for the price I agreed to pay. He reduced my bill by just over $10 per month for the next six months. Given the rates I would have to pay for direct access to a Usenet server, that will keep me going for years. All the best, Where are you located?? Lou Hi Lou, I'm in Southeastern NH... All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
#13
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
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#14
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
Kenneth wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 02:43:55 -0400, LouB wrote: Kenneth wrote: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:41:25 -0700, "nospam" wrote: http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Howdy, I called Comcast, chose "Modify Service" from the voicemaze, and spoke with a sales person. I explained that I wanted a reduction in my monthly cost because Comcast had apparently decided to decrease the service they had committed to provide me for the price I agreed to pay. He reduced my bill by just over $10 per month for the next six months. Given the rates I would have to pay for direct access to a Usenet server, that will keep me going for years. All the best, Where are you located?? Lou Hi Lou, I'm in Southeastern NH... All the best, Thanks he says sadly (Central Florida) Lou |
#15
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:41 -0400, Kenneth
wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:30:37 -0400, wrote: At the same time, without really stressing the point, they enacted a new term contract locking him in for 2 more years. After 6 months, his rate will go up to one that is higher than his original contract Hello again, I listened with care to everything I was told... But, beyond that, when I have had issues similar to the one you describe above with other vendors, I have simply requested that they send me a fax of my signature authorizing the extension of the "contract." With that, the "issue" simply vanishes. No, the sky is not falling... All the best, Best of luck to you. I think you may be in for a surprise. You did say COMCAST. |
#16
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:35:01 -0400, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:41 -0400, Kenneth wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:30:37 -0400, wrote: At the same time, without really stressing the point, they enacted a new term contract locking him in for 2 more years. After 6 months, his rate will go up to one that is higher than his original contract Hello again, I listened with care to everything I was told... But, beyond that, when I have had issues similar to the one you describe above with other vendors, I have simply requested that they send me a fax of my signature authorizing the extension of the "contract." With that, the "issue" simply vanishes. No, the sky is not falling... All the best, Best of luck to you. I think you may be in for a surprise. You did say COMCAST. Hello again, I have little doubt that Comcast if fully capable of doing the sorts of things about which you express concern. But for anyone with even a passing knowledge of their rights, there is no issue whatever. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
#17
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:13:19 -0400, Kenneth
wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:35:01 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:41 -0400, Kenneth wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:30:37 -0400, wrote: At the same time, without really stressing the point, they enacted a new term contract locking him in for 2 more years. After 6 months, his rate will go up to one that is higher than his original contract Hello again, I listened with care to everything I was told... But, beyond that, when I have had issues similar to the one you describe above with other vendors, I have simply requested that they send me a fax of my signature authorizing the extension of the "contract." With that, the "issue" simply vanishes. No, the sky is not falling... All the best, Best of luck to you. I think you may be in for a surprise. You did say COMCAST. Hello again, I have little doubt that Comcast if fully capable of doing the sorts of things about which you express concern. But for anyone with even a passing knowledge of their rights, there is no issue whatever. All the best, You are in trouble and don't even know it. You need to read the fine print on the FIRST agreement you had with them, as well as any "updates" they may have made along the way. Comcast has an unusually high rate of consumer complaints in my state, and probably in yours. You have made a mistake, and it has nothing to do with knowing your rights. Don't bother with a reply, until a tear from now, when you will be tearing your hair out in clumps. It's obvious you think you know what you are doing. Have fun. |
#18
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
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#19
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
Kenneth wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:31:49 -0400, wrote: You are in trouble and don't even know it. You need to read the fine print on the FIRST agreement you had with them, as well as any "updates" they may have made along the way. Comcast has an unusually high rate of consumer complaints in my state, and probably in yours. You have made a mistake, and it has nothing to do with knowing your rights. Don't bother with a reply, until a tear from now, when you will be tearing your hair out in clumps. It's obvious you think you know what you are doing. Have fun. Hi again, Despite your request that I not "bother" respond, I will. (Not for your benefit, but for others who might also be interested.) The simple reality is that you are far more concerned about the terrible things Comcast might do to you than am I. In the event that it comes to mind a year from now, I will keep you posted. All the best, A cheerful positive attitude like that? How on earth did you get in here? -- aem sends... |
#20
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:42:10 -0400, Kenneth
wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:31:49 -0400, wrote: You are in trouble and don't even know it. You need to read the fine print on the FIRST agreement you had with them, as well as any "updates" they may have made along the way. Comcast has an unusually high rate of consumer complaints in my state, and probably in yours. You have made a mistake, and it has nothing to do with knowing your rights. Don't bother with a reply, until a tear from now, when you will be tearing your hair out in clumps. It's obvious you think you know what you are doing. Have fun. Hi again, Despite your request that I not "bother" respond, I will. (Not for your benefit, but for others who might also be interested.) The simple reality is that you are far more concerned about the terrible things Comcast might do to you than am I. In the event that it comes to mind a year from now, I will keep you posted. All the best, Bwhahahahaha! Comcast can't do anything to me. I dumped them quite some time ago. |
#21
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:59:55 -0400, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:42:10 -0400, Kenneth wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:31:49 -0400, wrote: You are in trouble and don't even know it. You need to read the fine print on the FIRST agreement you had with them, as well as any "updates" they may have made along the way. Comcast has an unusually high rate of consumer complaints in my state, and probably in yours. You have made a mistake, and it has nothing to do with knowing your rights. Don't bother with a reply, until a tear from now, when you will be tearing your hair out in clumps. It's obvious you think you know what you are doing. Have fun. Hi again, Despite your request that I not "bother" respond, I will. (Not for your benefit, but for others who might also be interested.) The simple reality is that you are far more concerned about the terrible things Comcast might do to you than am I. In the event that it comes to mind a year from now, I will keep you posted. All the best, Bwhahahahaha! Comcast can't do anything to me. I dumped them quite some time ago. Hi again, How time flies... I just realized that I need not look to the future to understand the problems that might befall me if you are correct. I can look to the past. As I explained earlier in this thread: "(I will also mention that I had ongoing failures with access to Giganews through Comcast about 18 months ago. For a period of about 5 months, before they figured out the source of the problem, Comcast reduced my monthly costs by the amount I paid to Giganews. After that, my rates went back to what they had been prior to the reduction.)" That was far more than a year ago, and since I have had no rate increase, no modification of my contract. In the intervening 18 months I have experienced nothing other than the reality that I demanded that they treat me decently, and to my surprise (and no doubt to your shock,) they did. By the way, I would be happy to drop Comcast, but, unfortunately, they have a monopoly in my rural area. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
#22
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:50:13 -0400, LouB
wrote: Where are you located?? Lou Hi Lou, I'm in Southeastern NH... All the best, Thanks he says sadly (Central Florida) Lou Hi Lou, Please say more about the geography... I don't understand the issue. Thanks, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
#23
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
Kenneth wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:50:13 -0400, LouB wrote: Where are you located?? Lou Hi Lou, I'm in Southeastern NH... All the best, Thanks he says sadly (Central Florida) Lou Hi Lou, Please say more about the geography... I don't understand the issue. Thanks, Comcast available plans and special offers vary by market area, based on local agreements and what the market will bear. Around here, they are forcing pretty much everyone to get a digital box for anything other than what they could get with a roof antenna, and the uproar is reaching fever pitch. Around here, Satt runs about 20-25 bucks a month less for similar coverage. -- aem sends... |
#24
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
"LouB" wrote in message ... Kenneth wrote: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:41:25 -0700, "nospam" wrote: http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Howdy, I called Comcast, chose "Modify Service" from the voicemaze, and spoke with a sales person. I explained that I wanted a reduction in my monthly cost because Comcast had apparently decided to decrease the service they had committed to provide me for the price I agreed to pay. He reduced my bill by just over $10 per month for the next six months. Given the rates I would have to pay for direct access to a Usenet server, that will keep me going for years. All the best, Where are you located?? Lou |
#25
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
"Kenneth" wrote in message ... On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:41:25 -0700, "nospam" wrote: http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Howdy, I called Comcast, chose "Modify Service" from the voicemaze, and spoke with a sales person. I explained that I wanted a reduction in my monthly cost because Comcast had apparently decided to decrease the service they had committed to provide me for the price I agreed to pay. He reduced my bill by just over $10 per month for the next six months. Given the rates I would have to pay for direct access to a Usenet server, that will keep me going for years. FWIW, I recently called Comcast and got my rate reduced to the $33/ service that they advertise for newcomers for 6 months, compared to $50 per service. They said at that time I can check with them again about current offers. If they get difficult, there are plenty of DSL providers available. |
#26
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:47:14 -0700, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote: "nospam" wrote in message ... http://www.comcast.net/newsgroups/ It's been fun y'all. Don't be cheap, get a newsgroup reader and pay a few bucks for it, or get a free newsgroup reader. :-) Absolutely. I use Agent. It's far from perfect and the company (Forte) has a bit of an attitude, but for about $30 every few years, it's essentially free. I also use APN, which is just barely mediocre, but, at $3/mo, is less than I waste driving faster than I should on the freeway. There are excellent block plans any number of which will sell you xx GB of bandwidth that never expires. I haven't checked in the last few months, but here are a few that were available 6 months ago, sorted by $$/GB: $0.22/GB Usenet-News, $66 for 300 GB (250 years) $0.29/GB NewsgroupDirect, $14.95 for 50 GB (41.6 years) $0.33/GB Usenet-News, $10 for 30 GB (25 years) $0.33/GB Flash Newsgroups, $33.95 for 100 GB (83.3 years) $0.37/GB Octanews, $74.95 for 200 GB (166.6 years) $0.39/GB Flash Newsgroups, $19.95 for 50 GB (41.6 years) $0.40/GB Astraweb, $10 for 25 GB (20.8 years) $0.99/GB Octanews, $7.95 for 8 GB (6.6 years) $1.00/GB Usenet-News, $2 for 2 GB (1.6 years) The numbers in parentheses indicate how many years that much bandwidth would last at 100MB/month, which is a lot for text-only users. I can't imagine that anyone cannot afford $2 every 1.6 years. The websites for the above a http://usenet-news.net/ http://www.newsgroupdirect.com/ https://www.flashnewsgroups.com/fng_index.php http://www.octanews.com/ http://www.news.astraweb.com/ There are are also a number of totally free news-servers, mostly text only, but you will have to do your own research for that. ;-) |
#27
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:21:40 -0400, Kenneth
wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:59:55 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:42:10 -0400, Kenneth wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:31:49 -0400, wrote: You are in trouble and don't even know it. You need to read the fine print on the FIRST agreement you had with them, as well as any "updates" they may have made along the way. Comcast has an unusually high rate of consumer complaints in my state, and probably in yours. You have made a mistake, and it has nothing to do with knowing your rights. Don't bother with a reply, until a tear from now, when you will be tearing your hair out in clumps. It's obvious you think you know what you are doing. Have fun. Hi again, Despite your request that I not "bother" respond, I will. (Not for your benefit, but for others who might also be interested.) The simple reality is that you are far more concerned about the terrible things Comcast might do to you than am I. In the event that it comes to mind a year from now, I will keep you posted. All the best, Bwhahahahaha! Comcast can't do anything to me. I dumped them quite some time ago. Hi again, How time flies... I just realized that I need not look to the future to understand the problems that might befall me if you are correct. I can look to the past. As I explained earlier in this thread: "(I will also mention that I had ongoing failures with access to Giganews through Comcast about 18 months ago. For a period of about 5 months, before they figured out the source of the problem, Comcast reduced my monthly costs by the amount I paid to Giganews. After that, my rates went back to what they had been prior to the reduction.)" That was far more than a year ago, and since I have had no rate increase, no modification of my contract. In the intervening 18 months I have experienced nothing other than the reality that I demanded that they treat me decently, and to my surprise (and no doubt to your shock,) they did. By the way, I would be happy to drop Comcast, but, unfortunately, they have a monopoly in my rural area. All the best, Have a happy fantasy, Ken. I'm through. |
#28
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
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#29
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:40:01 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:26:40 -0400, Kenneth wrote: On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:35:41 -0400, wrote: Hi again, How time flies... I just realized that I need not look to the future to understand the problems that might befall me if you are correct. I can look to the past. As I explained earlier in this thread: "(I will also mention that I had ongoing failures with access to Giganews through Comcast about 18 months ago. For a period of about 5 months, before they figured out the source of the problem, Comcast reduced my monthly costs by the amount I paid to Giganews. After that, my rates went back to what they had been prior to the reduction.)" That was far more than a year ago, and since I have had no rate increase, no modification of my contract. In the intervening 18 months I have experienced nothing other than the reality that I demanded that they treat me decently, and to my surprise (and no doubt to your shock,) they did. By the way, I would be happy to drop Comcast, but, unfortunately, they have a monopoly in my rural area. All the best, Have a happy fantasy, Ken. I'm through. Hi again, As before, this is not directed to you, but to others who might be interested. With the information I have provided, it should be clear who is providing facts, and who is offering fantasy. It "should" be clear, but apparently to you it is not. When you get a moment, please feel free to go **** yourself, troll. Hey, dipstick, I thought you said you were through. You are the troll -- and butt ugly as well. |
#30
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:58:11 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 07:48:44 -0700, Lurfys Maw wrote: On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:40:01 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:26:40 -0400, Kenneth wrote: On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:35:41 -0400, wrote: Hi again, How time flies... I just realized that I need not look to the future to understand the problems that might befall me if you are correct. I can look to the past. As I explained earlier in this thread: "(I will also mention that I had ongoing failures with access to Giganews through Comcast about 18 months ago. For a period of about 5 months, before they figured out the source of the problem, Comcast reduced my monthly costs by the amount I paid to Giganews. After that, my rates went back to what they had been prior to the reduction.)" That was far more than a year ago, and since I have had no rate increase, no modification of my contract. In the intervening 18 months I have experienced nothing other than the reality that I demanded that they treat me decently, and to my surprise (and no doubt to your shock,) they did. By the way, I would be happy to drop Comcast, but, unfortunately, they have a monopoly in my rural area. All the best, Have a happy fantasy, Ken. I'm through. Hi again, As before, this is not directed to you, but to others who might be interested. With the information I have provided, it should be clear who is providing facts, and who is offering fantasy. It "should" be clear, but apparently to you it is not. When you get a moment, please feel free to go **** yourself, troll. Hey, dipstick, I thought you said you were through. You are the troll -- and butt ugly as well. Your mother does squat thrusts on tree stumps. I've seen it on youtube. C'mon, is that the best you can do. That's kinda Jr. High calibre. I said I was through, but then, before that, I told the comcast numbnuts not to bother with a reply and he seems to have a great need to have the last word. I can do whatever I want. So, you're like Kerry -- you were not through before you were through. My guess is that you've been through since about age 15. If you like, you cna have the last word. Go for it, but try not to get any on you. Dip****. |
#31
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Comcast Dropping Usenet
In article ,
KLS wrote: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:51:59 GMT, aemeijers wrote: I'll note that many or most government/corporate sites stopped hosting or passing on news, years ago, once they transitioned from UNIX to NT servers, and GIU desktops, since web sites better fufilled their internal requirements. Been a long time since the bandwidth usage for Usenet was 'lost in the weeds', and a sysadmin could sneak it past corporate. I remember being able to read newsgroups with trn, years ago, and then we were forced to move to those NT servers, and then trn wasn't available. A sad day. Agent is ok, but I really liked trn. I'm using trn4 right now. Man is it cool -- especially that little picture of the lying-on-its-side "tree" up in the right corner. (tree of current region of the thread, shows where you are, the branching-offs, etc.) I do it through www.panix.com, a nyc-based company. Provides "shell accounts" -- ie you're at a unix prompt, and explicitly run trn or mutt (one of the email programs they support), can compile programs, can do whatever. AND the newsgroups -- they keep each one for about two months, really nice since you can go read one only every few weeks and still miss nothing. Hooray for panix. Oh, there's a local newsgroup, panix.questions, where users post and answer questions, large threads on this and that. Most of those guys are SMART! (WAY smarter than I am). Good source of info. David |
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