We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.

Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"

Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.

P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?

Thanks.

On 9/8/2008 12:13 AM spake thus:

We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.

Don't know for sure (IANAP[1]), but this one sure smells like BS to me.

Think about it: there's nothing about a single-handle control that's
going to control temperature in case someone flushes a toilet any better
than two faucets (assuming no tempering valve, auto temperature control,
etc.). So nothing inherently safer or less safe either way.

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.

Codes are written and enforced at the local (i.e., municipal or county)
level. There do exist national codes, but the local building inspector
is the one who has the final say-so.


[1] I am not a plumber.


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:13:53 -0700, samueltilden wrote:

We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one faucet
(for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the legislature
mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and somebody else
is taking a shower.

Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when the
other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or simply
ask, "may I flush?"

Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a strong
preference for the two faucet shower.

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to see
this in writing.

P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?

Thanks.

Don't know your state, but other locations don't have that restrictions
as far as I can discover from a quick Internet search. Several Plumbing
supply houses on Internet still sell 3 handle tub faucets just fine from
in-house stock.

You are just remodeling, not new construction on a new bathroom so I
don't see why you don't qualify for grandfather clause.

By the way, a scald guard can be place in the copper line going from the
diverter valve to the shower head. It is a just one more thing to fail
in the future so you have to take out some drywall.

wrote:
We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.

Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"

Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.

Are you talking about the control valve? Lots of manufacturers make those
with two handles so you should have your plumber contact them and let them
know they are in violation of his law.

http://www.faucetline.com/DisplayPro...dle%20Sho wer


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

The BEST upgrade we have made here for YEARS is the delta single
handle temp and seperate handlew for flow valve. not only does it
prevent scalds but it allows any flow from weak to powerful.

the lack of flow control is why ii hated single handled valves.

this solved that plus the valve has a lifetime parts guarantee.

american standard moved production overseas, and the replacement parts
for my old faucet werent very good.......

lastly at home resale time the buyer will want a discount, and look at
your home as a fixer upper...

your better off replacing the valve.........

On Sep 8, 7:44�am, " wrote:
The BEST upgrade we have made here for YEARS is the delta single
handle temp and seperate handlew for flow valve. not only does it
prevent scalds but it allows any flow from weak to powerful.

the lack of flow control is why ii hated single handled valves.

this solved that plus the valve has a lifetime parts guarantee.

american standard moved production overseas, and the replacement parts
for my old faucet werent very good.......

lastly at home resale time the buyer will want a discount, and look at
your home as a fixer upper...

your better off replacing the valve.........

the delta actually has 2 knobs one large handle for flow, and a
smaller temperature adjust one.

its nice no longer having to adjust tempoerature since the faucet
remembers the prevbious setting

replying to hallerb, Susan Johann wrote:
Mine doesn't allow low flow of hot water or high flow of cold water.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...al-329902-.htm

wrote in message
...
We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.

Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"

Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.

P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?

Thanks.


Call up the plumbing inspector in town and ask him. I heard that the single
handled models are required to keep people from getting scalded. There are
adjustments to control the flow of hot and cold water.

wrote:
We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.


Anti scald has been a requirement for some time. If you look at how they
do it it is really simple to do implement in a single handle valve.

Also if there are older folks or young children or even a sleepy you it
is impossible to blast yourself with hot water turning on a single
handle faucet.

I wouldn't have anything but single handle faucets anywhere in the
house. The are just so much easier to use.


Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"

Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.

P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?

Thanks.

In article ,
George wrote:
wrote:
We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.


Anti scald has been a requirement for some time. If you look at how they
do it it is really simple to do implement in a single handle valve.

Also if there are older folks or young children or even a sleepy you it
is impossible to blast yourself with hot water turning on a single
handle faucet.

I wouldn't have anything but single handle faucets anywhere in the
house. The are just so much easier to use.

Suppose you're the 5th person taking a shower that morning,
and the hot water from the heater is only luke-warm.

Does the mechanism allow you to turn it to 100% from the
hot-pipe?


Or, suppose you want to fill a bucket with 100% really-hot
water, and you want to get the water from the shower.
Perhaps the protect-the-human faucet will impede you from
doing that?


David

PS: yes, with low pressure, a flushed toilet can be
a hot experience indeed.

Although with a regular toilet, with a tank, just
how much water per minute is coming in

Now, those powerful pressure-flush toilets (admitting that
I have no idea how they work), being on the same
cold-water-line as that could sure get someone
burned while in the shower!

wrote in message
...
We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower.

Where in the world you are living, have you check at lows and home depo.
Tony


They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.

Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"

Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.

P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?

Thanks.

We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one

Wow; either you're trolling or need a new plumbing company.

replying to samueltilden, mcadchri wrote:
samueltilden wrote:

We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.
Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.
Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"
Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.
Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?
If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.
P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?
Thanks.



In some states two-handle faucets have been made illegal according to the
published uniform plumbing code of that state. Each state produces their
own uniform plumbing code. By illegal, it means that a licensed plumbing
professional can NOT install this device for risk of his license being
revoked by the state, in essence ruining his business and/or livelihood.
Any existing two-handle is grandfathered in if it existed prior to the
code being written. However, if the valve goes bad and needs to be
replaced, it MUST be replaced with a pressure balanced single handle
valve. The only way around this is to have an unlicensed individual
(handyman, do-it-yourselfer) perform the repair. If you do this though you
are rolling the dice on whether or not this repair will be done properly.
If, let's say, your handyman replaces the valve and does a shoddy job and
the valve bursts 3 months after installation, any damage to floors, walls,
ceilings, etc., will be the responsibility of the homeowner to fix out of
pocket. The insurance company will disregard the claim because your device
was not installed by a state licensed industry professional.

Hope this helps!

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...al-329902-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to home and garden related groups

On 9/6/2013 11:44 AM, mcadchri wrote:


The only way around this is to have an unlicensed individual
(handyman, do-it-yourselfer) perform the repair. If you do this though you
are rolling the dice on whether or not this repair will be done properly.
If, let's say, your handyman replaces the valve and does a shoddy job and
the valve bursts 3 months after installation, any damage to floors, walls,
ceilings, etc., will be the responsibility of the homeowner to fix out of
pocket. The insurance company will disregard the claim because your device
was not installed by a state licensed industry professional.
Hope this helps!


Do you have evidence of this? I've never heard of a claim being denied
because of a DIY install. I've never heard of an insurance company
asking for information about an installer.

If the valve bursts, it is a manufacturer's defect, not a problem with
the installer anyway but the warranty excluded paying for damages, thus,
your insurance will cover. If it is a faulty install, you will be paid.

On Friday, September 6, 2013 1:14:43 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2013 11:44 AM, mcadchri wrote:





The only way around this is to have an unlicensed individual

(handyman, do-it-yourselfer) perform the repair. If you do this though you

are rolling the dice on whether or not this repair will be done properly.

If, let's say, your handyman replaces the valve and does a shoddy job and

the valve bursts 3 months after installation, any damage to floors, walls,

ceilings, etc., will be the responsibility of the homeowner to fix out of

pocket. The insurance company will disregard the claim because your device

was not installed by a state licensed industry professional.

Hope this helps!





Do you have evidence of this? I've never heard of a claim being denied

because of a DIY install. I've never heard of an insurance company

asking for information about an installer.



+1

Frequently claimed here, but I've yet to see one example of
an insurance company doing it. And he's also wrong on another
aspect. There is absolutely nothing preventing people in most
parts of the country from doing repairs in their own home
themselves without being licensed. You are frequently required to get
a permit, depending on what you are doing. But even here in the
Peoples Republic of NJ, you can do work on your own home, without
being licensed.

replying to , mcadchri wrote:
trader4 wrote:

+1
Frequently claimed here, but I've yet to see one example of
an insurance company doing it. And he's also wrong on another
aspect. There is absolutely nothing preventing people in most
parts of the country from doing repairs in their own home
themselves without being licensed. You are frequently required to get
a permit, depending on what you are doing. But even here in the
Peoples Republic of NJ, you can do work on your own home, without
being licensed.



I'm going to try and reply to the previous two comments in this section
here so bear with me. As far as evidence is concerned, only what you learn
from speaking with customers and adjusters on the job. You're more than
welcome to try to read through the hundreds of pages of legal jargon in
your homeowner's insurance policy manual to find the specifics, but I'll
pass. We all do know though that when a large claim is made an adjuster
comes out to do an investigation (or the insurance company sends a
licensed professional on their behalf). This is to find out what caused
the leak (in this example of a shower valve leak). If they conclude that
the valve body itself is the cause of the leak, then of course they will
pay because this is what the insurance is for. However, if it is
determined that one of the sweats (copper + silver + copper fusions
linking the valve body to the pipe) is at fault for the cause of the water
they are going to question the owner on who installed the valve. This step
is because if another person is at faulty for shoddy work, they'll want
them to pay. That's why professional companies also carry insurance
policies. Every insurance company is different on how far they deem
reasonable to investigate, normally depending on the overall cost of the
repair. The model/identity number of the valve can be easily traced to
show when it was purchased. This can be compared to the tenure of the
homeowner in the residence. You can see where this goes. So you see, it
all depends on the company. Nothing is black and white, we all know that.
The problem with your statement is that you're making the assumption that
the VALVE is the problem, but in most cases it's the INSTALLATION.

To the second comment, I never stated that a person could not do it
themselves. Of course they can. That is every home owner's right. As long
as there's no HOA a home owner can do whatever they wish to their home.
And yes, a homeowner can pull their own permit in order to perform these
tasks. But a permit couples with an inspection to ensure it is done
properly and in accordance with city code.

Somehow we got off track and we are now talking about people doing their
own work. That's not at all what the question was or what the thread is
about. The question was is it legal for a Plumber to install a 2 or 3
handle valve that is not pressure balance or containing thermostatic
controlled. The simple answer is this: A LICENSED PLUMBING PROFESSIONAL
CAN NOT PERFORM THIS ACTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE UNIFORM PLUMBING CODE,
INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE, OR ASSE 1016; THEREFORE THE INSTALLATION OF
SUCH A DEVICE PUTS THE LICENSE OF THE PLUMBER PROFESSIONAL AT RISK OF
TERMINATION.

But if you want to put it in your home, go ahead. It's your home. You just
probably won't find an experienced licensed plumber, you know the people
who do this work for a living and are educated in it, who will risk his
license to do it for you. Hope this helps!

--
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http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...al-329902-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to home and garden related groups

On 9/6/2013 11:45 AM, mcadchri wrote:

snip

But if you want to put it in your home, go ahead. It's your home. You just
probably won't find an experienced licensed plumber, you know the people
who do this work for a living and are educated in it, who will risk his
license to do it for you. Hope this helps!

There's another issue as well. If a guest is scalded when using your
shower, and sues you, the insurance company will investigate to see if
the valve was ever replaced. If it was replaced after the requirement
for the scald-proof valves then they will want to know who installed the
valve. If it was a licensed plumber then they'll go after them. If it
was the homeowner it gets dicey. The homeowner violated the code by
installing a non-compliant valve so the insurance company could refuse
to pay.

On Friday, September 6, 2013 2:45:08 PM UTC-4, mcadchri wrote:
replying to , mcadchri wrote:

trader4 wrote:



+1

Frequently claimed here, but I've yet to see one example of

an insurance company doing it. And he's also wrong on another

aspect. There is absolutely nothing preventing people in most

parts of the country from doing repairs in their own home

themselves without being licensed. You are frequently required to get

a permit, depending on what you are doing. But even here in the

Peoples Republic of NJ, you can do work on your own home, without

being licensed.







I'm going to try and reply to the previous two comments in this section

here so bear with me. As far as evidence is concerned, only what you learn

from speaking with customers and adjusters on the job. You're more than

welcome to try to read through the hundreds of pages of legal jargon in

your homeowner's insurance policy manual to find the specifics, but I'll

pass. We all do know though that when a large claim is made an adjuster

comes out to do an investigation (or the insurance company sends a

licensed professional on their behalf). This is to find out what caused

the leak (in this example of a shower valve leak). If they conclude that

the valve body itself is the cause of the leak, then of course they will

pay because this is what the insurance is for. However, if it is

determined that one of the sweats (copper + silver + copper fusions

linking the valve body to the pipe) is at fault for the cause of the water

they are going to question the owner on who installed the valve. This step

is because if another person is at faulty for shoddy work, they'll want

them to pay.

What the insurance company does in that case is to pay the
claim to the homeowner and then if they believe they have
a claim against the plumber who did the work, they go after
them to recover. That is very different from what you stated,
which is that they deny the claim.



That's why professional companies also carry insurance

policies. Every insurance company is different on how far they deem

reasonable to investigate, normally depending on the overall cost of the

repair. The model/identity number of the valve can be easily traced to

show when it was purchased. This can be compared to the tenure of the

homeowner in the residence. You can see where this goes.
So you see, it

all depends on the company. Nothing is black and white, we all know that.

The problem with your statement is that you're making the assumption that

the VALVE is the problem, but in most cases it's the INSTALLATION.



To the second comment, I never stated that a person could not do it

themselves. Of course they can. That is every home owner's right. As long

as there's no HOA a home owner can do whatever they wish to their home.

But you said or at least strongly implied, that if they did it themselves and it fails because something wasn't done right, then the insurance company won't pay the claim, because they were unlicensed.


"The only way around this is to have an unlicensed individual
(handyman, do-it-yourselfer) perform the repair. If you do this though you
are rolling the dice on whether or not this repair will be done properly.
If, let's say, your handyman replaces the valve and does a shoddy job and
the valve bursts 3 months after installation, any damage to floors, walls,
ceilings, etc., will be the responsibility of the homeowner to fix out of
pocket. The insurance company will disregard the claim because your device
was not installed by a state licensed industry professional."

That is what has been claimed here many times. It seems rather
odd. You can be an idiot and leave a pot of oil burning on the stove,
it burns the whole house down and they pay. You leave a
window open, it rains, the house gets damaged, they pay. But you
put a water valve in and it leaks and they aren't going to pay
because you're not licensed? Maybe it's happened, but I'd
like to see an example.







And yes, a homeowner can pull their own permit in order to perform these

tasks. But a permit couples with an inspection to ensure it is done

properly and in accordance with city code.



There is only a permit pulled if it's necessary. There are all
kinds of repairs being done by homeowners in various parts of
the country that require no permit.





Somehow we got off track and we are now talking about people doing their

own work. That's not at all what the question was or what the thread is

about. The question was is it legal for a Plumber to install a 2 or 3

handle valve that is not pressure balance or containing thermostatic

controlled. The simple answer is this: A LICENSED PLUMBING PROFESSIONAL

CAN NOT PERFORM THIS ACTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE UNIFORM PLUMBING CODE,

INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE, OR ASSE 1016; THEREFORE THE INSTALLATION OF

SUCH A DEVICE PUTS THE LICENSE OF THE PLUMBER PROFESSIONAL AT RISK OF

TERMINATION.


I would think that would be true if the AHJ has adopted
that part of the code. Not saying it probably isn't now in
force across most of the USA, especially the populated parts,
but do you know what every backwater community everywhere
has done?






But if you want to put it in your home, go ahead. It's your home. You just

probably won't find an experienced licensed plumber, you know the people

who do this work for a living and are educated in it, who will risk his

license to do it for you. Hope this helps!



--

posted from

http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...al-329902-.htm

using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface

to home and garden related groups

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 15:44:02 +0000, mcadchri
wrote:

replying to samueltilden, mcadchri wrote:
samueltilden wrote:

We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.
Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.
Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"
Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.
Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?
If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.
P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?
Thanks.



In some states two-handle faucets have been made illegal according to the
published uniform plumbing code of that state. Each state produces their
own uniform plumbing code. By illegal, it means that a licensed plumbing
professional can NOT install this device for risk of his license being
revoked by the state, in essence ruining his business and/or livelihood.
Any existing two-handle is grandfathered in if it existed prior to the
code being written. However, if the valve goes bad and needs to be
replaced, it MUST be replaced with a pressure balanced single handle
valve. The only way around this is to have an unlicensed individual
(handyman, do-it-yourselfer) perform the repair. If you do this though you
are rolling the dice on whether or not this repair will be done properly.
If, let's say, your handyman replaces the valve and does a shoddy job and
the valve bursts 3 months after installation, any damage to floors, walls,
ceilings, etc., will be the responsibility of the homeowner to fix out of
pocket. The insurance company will disregard the claim because your device
was not installed by a state licensed industry professional.

Hope this helps!

Soon, it will be illegal to take a **** between certain hours. Before
our politicians take away our guns, we need to march to specific
government buildings armed and ready to do some shooting. Otherwise we
can kiss American goodbye. Next time you sing the Star Spangled Banner,
DO NOT use the words "land of the free". It's a goddamn lie!

**** it, I think I'll replace my single handed shower faucet with a
double just to spite the cocksuckers!

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 04:31:22 -0500, wrote:


On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 15:44:02 +0000, mcadchri
m wrote:

replying to samueltilden, mcadchri wrote:
samueltilden wrote:

We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.
Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.
Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"
Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.
Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?
If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.
P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?
Thanks.



In some states two-handle faucets have been made illegal according to the
published uniform plumbing code of that state. Each state produces their
own uniform plumbing code. By illegal, it means that a licensed plumbing
professional can NOT install this device for risk of his license being
revoked by the state, in essence ruining his business and/or livelihood.
Any existing two-handle is grandfathered in if it existed prior to the
code being written. However, if the valve goes bad and needs to be
replaced, it MUST be replaced with a pressure balanced single handle
valve. The only way around this is to have an unlicensed individual
(handyman, do-it-yourselfer) perform the repair. If you do this though you
are rolling the dice on whether or not this repair will be done properly.
If, let's say, your handyman replaces the valve and does a shoddy job and
the valve bursts 3 months after installation, any damage to floors, walls,
ceilings, etc., will be the responsibility of the homeowner to fix out of
pocket. The insurance company will disregard the claim because your device
was not installed by a state licensed industry professional.

Hope this helps!

Soon, it will be illegal to take a **** between certain hours. Before
our politicians take away our guns, we need to march to specific
government buildings armed and ready to do some shooting. Otherwise we
can kiss American goodbye. Next time you sing the Star Spangled Banner,
DO NOT use the words "land of the free". It's a goddamn lie!

**** it, I think I'll replace my single handed shower faucet with a
double just to spite the cocksuckers!
Up here inKitchener/Waterloo Ontaro when a new water heater is
installed a scald-proof valve needs to be installed at the water
heater that "tempers" the water to a "safe temperature" - meaning you
can use 2 handle faucets and have no danger of scalding. It also means
it is virtually impossible to get hot water!!!

If I lived in that state that outlawed a two-handled faucet, I would consider moving to a different state. The Nanny State needs to be outlawed!!!!!!

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...al-329902-.htm

On 11/20/2020 12:31 PM, nosocialism wrote:
If I lived in that state that outlawed a two-handled faucet, I would
consider moving to a different state. The Nanny State needs to be
outlawed!!!!!!


You may have to move to Russia
Are Two and Three handle Shower Faucets Illegal ..
mcadamsplumbing.com ۼ two-three-handle-faucets-ille...
The Uniform Plumbing Code and International Building Code, in accordance
with ASSE 1016, require that all tub/shower faucets now be of the
pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Two and three
valve handles are not. The purpose for this is to prevent serious harm
from hot water scalding.

On 11/20/2020 2:22 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/20/2020 12:31 PM, nosocialism wrote:
If I lived in that state that outlawed a two-handled faucet, I would
consider moving to a different state. The Nanny State needs to be
outlawed!!!!!!


You may have to move to Russia
Are Two and Three handle Shower Faucets Illegal ..
mcadamsplumbing.com ۼ two-three-handle-faucets-ille...
The Uniform Plumbing Code and International Building Code, in accordance
with ASSE 1016, require that all tub/shower faucets now be of the
pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Two and three
valve handles are not. The purpose for this is to prevent serious harm
from hot water scalding.

Completely understand the code and that's for new construction. They
won't be making people change over if their fixture has the original
two/three handle faucet. Otherwise, they better be willing to pay to
have it updated.

On 11/20/20 3:09 PM, Hawk wrote:
On 11/20/2020 2:22 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/20/2020 12:31 PM, nosocialism wrote:
If I lived in that state that outlawed a two-handled faucet, I would
consider moving to a different state. The Nanny State needs to be
outlawed!!!!!!


You may have to move to Russia
Are Two and Three handle Shower Faucets Illegal ..
mcadamsplumbing.com ۼ two-three-handle-faucets-ille...
The Uniform Plumbing Code and International Building Code, in
accordance with ASSE 1016, require that all tub/shower faucets now be
of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Two and
three valve handles are not. The purpose for this is to prevent
serious harm from hot water scalding.

Completely understand the code and that's for new construction. They
won't be making people change over if their fixture has the original
two/three handle faucet. Otherwise, they better be willing to pay to
have it updated.

FWIW, our 1950s shower had 4 handles ! Shower and tub were separate.
When the original recently broke and was irreparable, it cost about
$1000 in parts and labor to have it replaced with a single handle.

The labor was a bear due to the way the pipes for the 4 handle had to be
re-worked, and working in the back of the closet where we could get to
the pipes, etc. Also needed some tile work.

replying to gfretwell , mcadchri wrote:
gfretwell wrote:

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 15:44:02 +0000, mcadchri
This is the code text (IRC as adopted in Florida)
P2708.3 Shower control valves.
Individual shower and tub/shower combination valves shall be equipped
with control valves of the pressure-balance, thermostatic-mixing or
combination pressure-balance/thermostatic-mixing valve types with a
high limit stop in accordance with ASSE 1016 or CSA B125. The high
limit stop shall be set to limit water temperature to a maximum of
120°F (49°C). In-line thermostatic valves shall not be used for
compliance with this section.

Whether that means you actually have to use a "combination valve" is
open to conjecture but most AHJs seem to think that is what it says



Very interesting. I've been investigating this topic all morning because
we had a client who refused to change and just wants an unlicensed
handyman to do it. What more I'm finding out is that this is actually
nationwide, not state by state. It's related to (as you said) ASSE 1016,
which is the Scald Prevention measure. The Mass. Plumbing Code lists it as
follows:
Shower Controls.
When a flow control valve or shower head is designed to completely
shut-off and is installed on the outlet pipe from a shower control unit,
check valves shall be provided in the hot and cold water supplies to the
unit to prevent by-passing of hot or cold water. An exception to the
requirement above is when Product-approved shower control units are
designed to prevent bypassing.
1. All showers, shower stalls, shower compartments, gang showers, and
shower baths, either multiple or single, shall be equipped with an
approved adjustable self-cleaning and draining shower head.
2. The water supply to a shower head shall be supplied through a
Product-approved individual thermostatic, pressure balancing or
combination thermostatic/pressure balancing valve complying with ASSE
1016. The device shall conform to the following requirements:
the device shall incorporate a design that limits the maximum deliverable
temperature of hot water to 112EF; and
the device shall be designed to prevent bypassing of water.
http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/licensee/d...000.html#10.10
According to #2 of the previous there is not much room for conjecture as
it states "shall be supplied through."
The Uniform Plumbing Code book, ISSN 0733-2335, states in section 420.0 -
SHOWER AND TUB/SHOWER COMBINATION CONTROL VALVES: "Showers and tub/shower
combinations in all buildings shall be provided with individual control
valves of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Gang
showers, when supplied with a single temperature controlled water supply
pipe, may be controlled by a master thermostatic mixing valve in lieu of
individually controlled pressure balance or thermostatic mixing valves
(pg. 30-31)."
Again this removes any conjecture form the conversation as these are the
regulations set by the regulatory agency that licenses plumbing
professionals. Any deviation from said regulations could be cause for
termination of professional license.


--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...al-329902-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface
to home and garden related groups

On 9/6/2013 9:44 AM, mcadchri wrote:

Very interesting. I've been investigating this topic all morning because
we had a client who refused to change and just wants an unlicensed
handyman to do it.

There are two handle shower controls with anti-scald so he should just
use one of those.

Sorry I have to resurrect this because I'm ****ed as hell at these bull**** "scald safe" faucets in my home.

I recently installed an inline water heater. It's not a high-end brand, Eco-Temp or something like that, we needed a new water heater and this one was priced similar to a 40-gallon tank heater, so we got it. It runs on propane (we do not have natural gas).

Just so you understand how inline water heaters work. When you turn on the hot water anywhere in the house, this thing fires up a propane burner which heats a coil of copper pipe that winds through the unit. As the water flows through, it's heated by the propane. There is no tank - water is heated on-demand as you need it.

I have no idea whether this is a "feature" (or lack of) in my specific inline heater, or if all inline heaters work this way. The problem is the intensity of the burner does not adjust adequately based on flow rate. If you turn the hot on full blast, the water is passing through the flames much more quickly, and doesn't heat up as much. If you turn on the hot water only a little, it passes through the flames much more slowly and you get much hotter water.

What this means is, if I want cooler water, I can't reduce the hot handle - that reduces the quantity of hot water, but increases the temperature of the hot side. I have to INCREASE the cold side to make it cooler, and leave the hot alone.

This is IMPOSSIBLE to do with a single handle faucet. When you turn it towards cold, it is both reducing the hot and increasing the cold, and the net difference ends up being about the same. The more you turn it towards the blue, the hotter the hot water gets, which cancels out the increased supply of cold water. One temp is all you get.

That is, until the hot water is trickling so slowly it reaches 140*F, at which point the safety kicks on at the inline water heater and shuts down everything. Then you're back to cold water no matter how you turn the faucet.

Yes, I've tried adjusting the little valve thingy on the sides of the single-handle faucets to increase the max amount of hot water - makes no difference. And also, about half the faucets in my house, the set screws were so crusty/rusted I either couldn't turn them or broke something trying to get them loose.

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 20:11:02 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Sorry I have to resurrect this because I'm ****ed as hell at these bull**** "scald safe" faucets in my home.

I recently installed an inline water heater. It's not a high-end brand, Eco-Temp or something like that, we needed a new water heater and this one was priced similar to a 40-gallon tank heater, so we got it. It runs on propane (we do not have natural gas).

Just so you understand how inline water heaters work. When you turn on the hot water anywhere in the house, this thing fires up a propane burner which heats a coil of copper pipe that winds through the unit. As the water flows through, it's heated by the propane. There is no tank - water is heated on-demand as you need it.

I have no idea whether this is a "feature" (or lack of) in my specific inline heater, or if all inline heaters work this way. The problem is the intensity of the burner does not adjust adequately based on flow rate. If you turn the hot on full blast, the water is passing through the flames much more quickly, and doesn't heat up as much. If you turn on the hot water only a little, it passes through the flames much more slowly and you get much hotter water.

What this means is, if I want cooler water, I can't reduce the hot handle - that reduces the quantity of hot water, but increases the temperature of the hot side. I have to INCREASE the cold side to make it cooler, and leave the hot alone.

This is IMPOSSIBLE to do with a single handle faucet. When you turn it towards cold, it is both reducing the hot and increasing the cold, and the net difference ends up being about the same. The more you turn it towards the blue, the hotter the hot water gets, which cancels out the increased supply of cold water. One temp is all you get.

That is, until the hot water is trickling so slowly it reaches 140*F, at which point the safety kicks on at the inline water heater and shuts down everything. Then you're back to cold water no matter how you turn the faucet.

Yes, I've tried adjusting the little valve thingy on the sides of the single-handle faucets to increase the max amount of hot water - makes no difference. And also, about half the faucets in my house, the set screws were so crusty/rusted I either couldn't turn them or broke something trying to get them loose.
Don't know about the USA but in Canada they are legal if you have a
"tempering valve" on the water heater, which mixes hot and cold to
limit the output temperature.

I recently installed an inline water heater. It's not a high-end
brand, Eco-Temp or something like that, we needed a new water heater
and this one was priced similar to a 40-gallon tank heater, so we got
it. It runs on propane (we do not have natural gas).

the intensity of the burner does not adjust adequately based on flow
rate. If you turn the hot on full blast, the water is passing through
the flames much more quickly, and doesn't heat up as much. If you
turn on the hot water only a little, it passes through the flames much
more slowly and you get much hotter water.

It sounds like your tankless water heater is undersized for your
situation.

Tankless heaters are generally rated for a given temperature rise at a
given flow rate. If you draw water faster than it can heat it, you'll get
cooler water.

Likewise, if the water coming into your home is colder, the outgoing
water will be colder too. The heater can only raise the temperature so
much.

It would be like trying to heat an entire house with a small space
heater. If you close the doors you might be able to heat one room. Open
the doors and you'll lose heat faster than the heater can warm it.

When you bought your heater you should have checked the temperature of
your water supply, what flow rate you would need (how many fixtures you
would be running at once), and selected a heater that could meet those
requirements.

At this point, you really only have a few options.

1. Return the tankless heater and go back to a tank heater.

2. Replace the tankless heater with a more powerful model.

3. Add a valve to the water line to reduce the flow rate (giving the
heater more time to heat up the water).

Of course, putting low flow aerators on all of your fixtures would help
too.

One way you can test if your water heater is the culprit is to open a hot
water valve at a sink or washing machine outlet. Basically someplace with
the "two handle" operation you are describing. If the water cools down as
you open the faucet further, you know the heater isn't able to keep up.

I'm ****ed as hell at these bull**** "scald safe" faucets in my home.

As far as I know, single handle pressure balanced shower faucets are now
required for new construction (or remodels when you upgrade the
plumbing).

You might try replacing the balancing valve in the faucet, it might just
be defective. Sometimes they get plugged up with grit and stop moving
correctly.

half the faucets in my house, the set screws were so crusty/rusted
I either couldn't turn them or broke something trying to get them
loose.

Odds are the pressure balancer is crusty/rusted too. Time to do some
maintenance.

Good luck,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 12:31:55 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:


At this point, you really only have a few options.

1. Return the tankless heater and go back to a tank heater.

2. Replace the tankless heater with a more powerful model.

3. Add a valve to the water line to reduce the flow rate (giving the
heater more time to heat up the water).

Of course, putting low flow aerators on all of your fixtures would help
too.


Agree. Sounds like another satisfied tankless customer. I see
what's going on and how it's annoying, but I'd say the root cause
are the properties of the tankless. It would be solved by having
a tankless sized to maintain constant water temp up to whatever
the max usage rate of the whole house is. But that will likely
take a much larger model, because you have to support the max
reasonable load of the whole house. And if he's having this
problem with just one point of use, it would likely require a much
bigger unit to support two or three simultaneous draws.
Alternative, as you say, is to restrict the hot water flow rate
so that the tankless can keep up. Even then though, I wonder
how variable their burn rate is and if they can actually
maintain a perfectly constant outgoing temp rate? IDK, because
I don't and won't have one, for a variety of reasons, starting
with cost.

Sounds like another satisfied tankless customer.

There's nothing wrong with tankless as long as they are sized for the
application.

As with most things, people buy the wrong thing then complain about the
item as a whole. "Those things don't work" instead of "I got the wrong
model".

A tankless heater designed for a single faucet isn't going to perform well
for an entire house.

I don't and won't have one, for a variety of reasons, starting
with cost.

I looked at tankless models when we built our house. We didn't have gas
available and electric models would have required major electrical supply
upgrades. We have relatively cold well water so we would have needed a
large model. And, as you say, they're kind of expensive.

However, I have used tankless heaters at many cabins and cottages and they
perform very well when sized correctly. Best part is the hot water never
runs out.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 10:57:03 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:
Sounds like another satisfied tankless customer.

There's nothing wrong with tankless as long as they are sized for the
application.


I'd say even if they're sized right, the fact that in most cases
you'll never recover the increased upfront costs of the unit
and installation are something that's wrong with them. That cost
can include running a larger gas service. The OP might run into
that if he tries to put in a larger one. And the alleged savings
in operating costs, I think in many cases are overstated.




As with most things, people buy the wrong thing then complain about the
item as a whole. "Those things don't work" instead of "I got the wrong
model".

A tankless heater designed for a single faucet isn't going to perform well
for an entire house.

I don't and won't have one, for a variety of reasons, starting
with cost.

I looked at tankless models when we built our house. We didn't have gas
available and electric models would have required major electrical supply
upgrades. We have relatively cold well water so we would have needed a
large model. And, as you say, they're kind of expensive.

There you go.


However, I have used tankless heaters at many cabins and cottages and they
perform very well when sized correctly. Best part is the hot water never
runs out.


That is an advantage. How much it matters, depends on your situation.
For me, running out is not a problem with my tank type. On the flip
side, when my power goes out, I still have hot water, while with most
tankless, you don't.

On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 14:55:32 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:


There's nothing wrong with tankless as long as they are sized for the
application.

Well, yes there are some things. They are expensive. That's
because they have a lot going on in the unit in order to
operate properly and safely. And that means a lot can go
wrong, and very few qualified technicians to fix it, usually
only one source for parts, and that means repairs can cost
more than the original installation.

They do have some good selling points, but consumers should
know about the good and the bad before making a decision.

--
croy

On 7/8/2015 9:30 PM, HerHusband wrote:

Tankless heaters are generally rated for a given temperature rise at a
given flow rate. If you draw water faster than it can heat it, you'll get
cooler water.

This isn't his problem. The problem is that tankless heater is not
heating to a specific temperature regardless of the flow rate so at low
flow the water is too hot. Changing the mix at the faucet for more cold
and less hot doesn't work because then the hot water, while lower in
volume, is much hotter.

Does any tankless hot water heater monitor the flow rate and output
temperature and then adjust the flame to keep the temperature constant
regardless of the flow? It would not be difficult to do this but a good
flow meter that works for hot water is not cheap.

Why would anyone put in a tankless water heater in a residential
property? Even for vacation homes it's easy to fit something that turns
the hot water heater off when not in use.

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 3:24:23 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 7/8/2015 9:30 PM, HerHusband wrote:

Tankless heaters are generally rated for a given temperature rise at a
given flow rate. If you draw water faster than it can heat it, you'll get
cooler water.

This isn't his problem.

That would seem to be exactly his problem. At a slower flow rate,
it's able to heat the water hotter. If he had a unit with a much
higher capacity, then he wouldn't be having the problem.

The problem is that tankless heater is not
heating to a specific temperature regardless of the flow rate so at low
flow the water is too hot.

It can't heat to the same temperature at 5 gal a minute as it can
at 1 gal a minute. It's very much an issue of the flow rate.

Changing the mix at the faucet for more cold
and less hot doesn't work because then the hot water, while lower in
volume, is much hotter.


That would indeed be the problem he stated.


Does any tankless hot water heater monitor the flow rate and output
temperature and then adjust the flame to keep the temperature constant
regardless of the flow? It would not be difficult to do this but a good
flow meter that works for hot water is not cheap.

I would certainly hope so. Otherwise when you were drawing .1 gal
a minute, you'd get steam, wouldn't you?


Why would anyone put in a tankless water heater in a residential
property?

If you had a big family and had experiences of running out of hot
water I can see it. Around here, they are putting in two tank type
to support large homes, with Jacuzzi type tubs, etc. I can see
putting one in there instead of two tank type.



Even for vacation homes it's easy to fit something that turns
the hot water heater off when not in use.

Not so easy unless you have a predictable schedule of when you're
going to be there. For vacation rentals it wouldn't work well
either.

Tankless heaters are generally rated for a given temperature rise at
a given flow rate. If you draw water faster than it can heat it,
you'll get cooler water.

This isn't his problem. The problem is that tankless heater is not
heating to a specific temperature regardless of the flow rate so at
low flow the water is too hot.

If the water is too hot at low flow, there are two likely causes:

1. The water heater is set at too high of a temperature.

2. The pressure balance valve in the shower faucet is defective.

Both are easy fixes.

Does any tankless hot water heater monitor the flow rate and output
temperature and then adjust the flame to keep the temperature constant
regardless of the flow?

I have no idea, but a standard tank model doesn't do this either. You set
a maximum temperature and the heater heats the water to that level
(typically 120 degrees). A tankless heater isn't really all that different.
It's just heating the water as it comes in instead of preheating it in a
big tank. Either way the water should always be 120 degrees when it leaves
the heater.

As I mentioned earlier, the original poster should check the water
temperature at a valve near the water heater. If the temperature remains
fairly constant at high and low flow, the heater is probably fine. The
problem is probably a defective faucet.

Why would anyone put in a tankless water heater in a residential
property?

Space savings, potential energy savings, endless hot water, gadget wow
factor. How important any of these are depends on the situation and the
individual.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 1:38:25 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:


Does any tankless hot water heater monitor the flow rate and output
temperature and then adjust the flame to keep the temperature constant
regardless of the flow?

I have no idea, but a standard tank model doesn't do this either. You set
a maximum temperature and the heater heats the water to that level
(typically 120 degrees). A tankless heater isn't really all that different.
It's just heating the water as it comes in instead of preheating it in a
big tank. Either way the water should always be 120 degrees when it leaves
the heater.


There is a big difference. The tank type has most of a tank of hot
water at close to the same temperature. When you start drawing
water, you can pull a lot of water at whatever rate you want and
the temp is not going to vary much. If you pull enough, eventually
the temp will drop as the cold water entering the bottom of the tank
starts to effect the hot water leaving the top.

With a tankless, the burn rate of fuel has to be adjusted to
the flow rate. Otherwise you'd get steam at .1 gal an hour
and the temp would vary wildly based on flow rate. How exactly
they do that, IDK, but I'd suspect they use some kind of
modulating gas valve.

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 1:38:25 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:

Someone other than HerHusband asked:


Does any tankless hot water heater monitor the flow rate and output
temperature and then adjust the flame to keep the temperature constant
regardless of the flow?

Yes, per the site linked to below, they do exist. I quote, but offer no examples:

"Some types of tankless water heaters are thermostatically controlled; they can vary their output temperature according to the water flow rate and inlet temperature."


I have no idea, but a standard tank model doesn't do this either. You set
a maximum temperature and the heater heats the water to that level
(typically 120 degrees). A tankless heater isn't really all that different.
It's just heating the water as it comes in instead of preheating it in a
big tank. Either way the water should always be 120 degrees when it leaves
the heater.

Not so. Flow Rate is known drawback of tankless WH. Well, maybe not a drawback, per se, but a key factor in sizing a unit. It's a drawback in the sense that you may need to purchase a bigger/more expensive unit based of your flow rate/temperature rise requirements.

The more flow you demand, the lower the water temp at the output because the water is not in "contact" with the burners for as long a time.

Granted, flow rate will impact a tank heater also in that you will run out of 120 degree water sooner with a higher flow rate, but the difference is that regardless of how many showers you turn on, you *will* get 120 degree water out of the tank for some period of time. With a tankless heater, you may never get 120 degree water if the flow rate outpaces the heater's ability to impart the required temperature rise.

From: http://energy.gov/energysaver/articl...w-water-heater

SIZING TANKLESS OR DEMAND-TYPE WATER HEATERS
Tankless or demand-type water heaters are rated by the maximum temperature rise possible at a given flow rate. Therefore, to size a demand water heater, you need to determine the flow rate and the temperature rise you'll need for its application (whole house or a remote application, such as just a bathroom) in your home.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 05:36:55 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Tankless heaters are generally rated for a given temperature rise at
a given flow rate. If you draw water faster than it can heat it,
you'll get cooler water.

This isn't his problem. The problem is that tankless heater is not
heating to a specific temperature regardless of the flow rate so at
low flow the water is too hot.

If the water is too hot at low flow, there are two likely causes:

1. The water heater is set at too high of a temperature.

2. The pressure balance valve in the shower faucet is defective.

Both are easy fixes.

Does any tankless hot water heater monitor the flow rate and output
temperature and then adjust the flame to keep the temperature constant
regardless of the flow?

I have no idea, but a standard tank model doesn't do this either. You set
a maximum temperature and the heater heats the water to that level
(typically 120 degrees). A tankless heater isn't really all that different.
It's just heating the water as it comes in instead of preheating it in a
big tank. Either way the water should always be 120 degrees when it leaves
the heater.

As I mentioned earlier, the original poster should check the water
temperature at a valve near the water heater. If the temperature remains
fairly constant at high and low flow, the heater is probably fine. The
problem is probably a defective faucet.

Why would anyone put in a tankless water heater in a residential
property?

Space savings, potential energy savings, endless hot water, gadget wow
factor. How important any of these are depends on the situation and the
individual.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
A better answer is more money than brains.
In normal use a tankless will NEVER pay for itself in energy savings -
not even close.

On 7/9/2015 10:36 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Tankless heaters are generally rated for a given temperature rise at
a given flow rate. If you draw water faster than it can heat it,
you'll get cooler water.

This isn't his problem. The problem is that tankless heater is not
heating to a specific temperature regardless of the flow rate so at
low flow the water is too hot.

If the water is too hot at low flow, there are two likely causes:

1. The water heater is set at too high of a temperature.

2. The pressure balance valve in the shower faucet is defective.

Both are easy fixes.

Does any tankless hot water heater monitor the flow rate and output
temperature and then adjust the flame to keep the temperature constant
regardless of the flow?

I have no idea, but a standard tank model doesn't do this either.

Wrong.

The temperature of the water out of tank model is constant regardless of
the flow rate. Sure you can drain it faster than it can re-heat the
water if the flow rate is very high, but that is not the normal case in
a properly sized tank heater.

A tankless model could mix cold water with hot water at lower flow rates
to keep the output temperature constant (rather than trying to adjust
the flame intensity. Maybe some do this.