On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 20:11:02 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


What this means is, if I want cooler water, I can't reduce the hot handle -=
that reduces the quantity of hot water, but increases the temperature of t=
he hot side. I have to INCREASE the cold side to make it cooler, and leave=
the hot alone.

This is IMPOSSIBLE to do with a single handle faucet. When you turn it tow=

I noticed this, and I don't like them because of this. Because you have
no control of how much water comes out. . I think I've seen this kind
of faucet in gym locker rooms, And they had it in the Hilton I just
stayed in, though there one person's use of ho****er probably has no
effect on its temperature.

ards cold, it is both reducing the hot and increasing the cold, and the net=
difference ends up being about the same. The more you turn it towards the=
blue, the hotter the hot water gets, which cancels out the increased suppl=
y of cold water. One temp is all you get.

That is, until the hot water is trickling so slowly it reaches 140*F, at wh=
ich point the safety kicks on at the inline water heater and shuts down eve=
rything. Then you're back to cold water no matter how you turn the faucet.

Yes, I've tried adjusting the little valve thingy on the sides of the singl=
e-handle faucets to increase the max amount of hot water - makes no differe=
nce. And also, about half the faucets in my house, the set screws were so =
crusty/rusted I either couldn't turn them or broke something trying to get =
them loose.

However i didn't realize there were so many problems.

A) I don't know anything about the law.

Besides Hubby's suggestions, and depending on how many places this is a
problem, could you replace the shower fixture with a kitchen sink style
fixture, whose handle moves in two planes and with which you can adjust
both the temp and the volume? I can't remember now seeing them in a
shower or bathtub but I saw one in a bathroom sink a couple days ago
(of course the house was 30 or 40 years old)

It might be easier, no tile work, for example, to replace the water
heater.


My own bathtub/shower doesn't work like I remember it. If I don't want
a blast of water, just moderate, I can turn on the hot, and then it
takes only a minute adjustment to the cold to change the temperature of
the mixed water. It's not bad, but I sure thought it used to work
differently and I don't know how it coudl have changed.

On 07/08/2015 10:11 PM, wrote:

I recently installed an inline water heater. It's not a high-end brand, Eco-Temp or something like that, we needed a new water heater and this one was priced similar to a 40-gallon tank heater, so we got it.

Tankless water heaters suck and they don't really save money.

Tankless water heaters suck and they don't really save money.

That's an inaccurate generalization.

Technically, tankless water heaters "flow", not suck.

As for saving money, that depends on the application. If you use hot water
regularly throughout the day, you probably won't notice a major difference
compared to a tanked model (other than the hot water never runs out). On
the other hand, if you have a cabin or rental unit that can sit empty for
days, you'll save money by not heating water when no one is using it.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

I'm not certain, but I think where I live plumbers
are not allowed to install separate valves, but
you can still buy them. It sounds like what you
need is a real water heater. Then if you do the
shower plumbing yourself you can probably switch
over to dual valves. But with a decent water heater
you might be happy with the old mixing valve.

I can't stand this type of nanny-state bull****, with regulations stepping in to prevent things that common sense should be preventing.

The red handle provides hot water, hot enough to burn you. Be careful.

PLEASE GIVE ME BACK MY RIGHT TO CONTROL THE WATER TEMPERATURE IN MY HOUSE.

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 20:17:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I can't stand this type of nanny-state bull****, with regulations stepping in to prevent things that common sense should be preventing.

The red handle provides hot water, hot enough to burn you. Be careful.

PLEASE GIVE ME BACK MY RIGHT TO CONTROL THE WATER TEMPERATURE IN MY HOUSE.

Why blame safety regulations for your crappy water heater? Or is the
valve going bad? With my single handle shower faucets I turn the
handle to about 11 o'clock, make a minor adjustment if needed and I'm
set to shower. Makes no difference if anyone flushes a toilet, the
dishwasher is filling or the other shower is going.

It is also possible the sensor in the faucet is not working properly
too. You should be able to set the maximum temperature at a safe
level and just turn the handle to full hot and be within showering
range. Maybe a slight adjustment for seasonal cold water temperature.

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:03:12 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 20:17:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I can't stand this type of nanny-state bull****, with regulations stepping in to prevent things that common sense should be preventing.

The red handle provides hot water, hot enough to burn you. Be careful.

PLEASE GIVE ME BACK MY RIGHT TO CONTROL THE WATER TEMPERATURE IN MY HOUSE.

Why blame safety regulations for your crappy water heater? Or is the
valve going bad? With my single handle shower faucets I turn the
handle to about 11 o'clock, make a minor adjustment if needed and I'm
set to shower. Makes no difference if anyone flushes a toilet, the
dishwasher is filling or the other shower is going.

It is also possible the sensor in the faucet is not working properly
too. You should be able to set the maximum temperature at a safe
level and just turn the handle to full hot and be within showering
range. Maybe a slight adjustment for seasonal cold water temperature.

Because the safety regulations are the reason that valve even exists. Without the safety regulations, I wouldn't have to adjust or replace anything, I'd just turn the hot valve a little less or more to get the temperature of water I need.

As for the crappy water heater - yeah, maybe it is not the best, but if I had two-handle faucets, it would be totally fine.

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 12:55:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
range. Maybe a slight adjustment for seasonal cold water temperature.

Because the safety regulations are the reason that valve even exists. Without the safety regulations, I wouldn't have to adjust or replace anything, I'd just turn the hot valve a little less or more to get the temperature of water I need.

As for the crappy water heater - yeah, maybe it is not the best, but if I had two-handle faucets, it would be totally fine.

Apparently two handle, old style shower valves are still sold:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/KOHLER-Re...A-BN/100094257

So, I'm not sure it's some safety regulation is the reason you
have the more popular single handle type. The single handle ones
are the type most people prefer and are going into most new homes,
etc. But it looks like you can have what you want. How feasible
it is to change it, IDK, that depends, but it's not trivial that's
for sure.

I agree you have a valuable point though, and one that you probably
wouldn't realize until it's too late. Which is if you have a tankless
that can't maintain a constant temperature across the flow rate
when using the shower and/or shower plus other draws at the same time,
then you will have the problem you describe. If that is happening
with just the shower, it definitely sounds like the tankless is under
sized. What make/model is it? Also something that should help
would be to reduce the flow rate at the shower head, assuming it's
not already limited flow.

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 12:55:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
range. Maybe a slight adjustment for seasonal cold water temperature.

Because the safety regulations are the reason that valve even exists. Without the safety regulations, I wouldn't have to adjust or replace anything, I'd just turn the hot valve a little less or more to get the temperature of water I need.

As for the crappy water heater - yeah, maybe it is not the best, but if I had two-handle faucets, it would be totally fine.

Apparently two handle, old style shower valves are still sold:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/KOHLER-Re...A-BN/100094257

So, I'm not sure it's some safety regulation is the reason you
have the more popular single handle type. The single handle ones
are the type most people prefer and are going into most new homes,
etc. But it looks like you can have what you want. How feasible
it is to change it, IDK, that depends, but it's not trivial that's
for sure.

I'm not sure we can state that's it's "not trivial" without knowing the situation in a given bathroom.

If the shower originally had a 2 handle valve which has been replaced with an escutcheon plate and a single handle, then reverting back to 2 faucets might not be that hard at all.

https://www.plumbingsupply.com/image...inch-specs.png

Granted, if there is only the single hole in the existing wall, no easy access to the plumbing, etc. then things do get a bit more complicated, but I don't know that we can make the "not trivial" assertion without more information.



I agree you have a valuable point though, and one that you probably
wouldn't realize until it's too late. Which is if you have a tankless
that can't maintain a constant temperature across the flow rate
when using the shower and/or shower plus other draws at the same time,
then you will have the problem you describe. If that is happening
with just the shower, it definitely sounds like the tankless is under
sized. What make/model is it? Also something that should help
would be to reduce the flow rate at the shower head, assuming it's
not already limited flow.

On Monday, September 8, 2008 at 3:13:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.

Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"

Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.

P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?

Thanks.

____
I prefer single handle(sinks and tubs) because I
am terribly dyslexic and always grab hot for cold
faucet or vice versa. But to deny someone a two-
handle setup is just communist, if you axe me!

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 9:07:18 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, September 8, 2008 at 3:13:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
We are remodeling our bathroom and I want the "old fashioned" two
faucets: one for hot and the other for cold.

Both the plumber and the plumbing supply company say that two faucets
have been declared illegal and that we must, by law, use the one
faucet (for both hot and cold) in the shower. They say that the
legislature mandated one faucet in case someone flushed the toilet and
somebody else is taking a shower.

Only my wife (of 30 years) and I live at home and, duh, we know when
the other is showering or using the toilet. We knock on the wall or
simply ask, "may I flush?"

Yes, I have used the one faucet shower (e.g., hotels) and have a
strong preference for the two faucet shower.

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.

P.S. I can understand mandating safe electricity practices, of course,
but faucets in a shower?

Thanks.

____
I prefer single handle(sinks and tubs) because I
am terribly dyslexic and always grab hot for cold
faucet or vice versa. But to deny someone a two-
handle setup is just communist, if you axe me!

Not being dyslexic, I would like to ask, in a kind and serious manner:

If your malady causes you to grab the opposite faucet handle, does it not cause you to turn the single handle in the opposite direction than intended?

9:33 AMDerbyDad03 wrote:
"- show quoted text -
Not being dyslexic, I would like to ask, in a kind and serious manner:

If your malady causes you to grab the opposite faucet handle, does it not cause you to turn the single handle in the opposite direction than intended? "

Sometimes.

wrote:

Now, is it really true that some legislature has actually outlawed two
faucets in a shower?

If so, which legistature (e.g., federal, state, county)? I need to
see this in writing.


Depends on which version of the UPC your area is using. Best to call your local
code office:

http://mcadamsplumbing.com/two-three...ucets-illegal/

The Uniform Plumbing Code and International Building Code, in accordance with ASSE 1016, require that all tub/shower faucets now be of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Two and three valve handles are not. The purpose for this is to prevent serious harm from hot water scalding.

The exact text from the Uniform Plumbing Code book, ISSN 0733-2335, states in section 420.0 €“ SHOWER
AND TUB/SHOWER COMBINATION CONTROL VALVES:

€œShowers and tub/shower combinations in all buildings shall be provided with individual control valves of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Gang showers, when supplied with a single temperature controlled water supply pipe, may be controlled by a master thermostatic mixing valve in lieu of individually controlled pressure balance or thermostatic mixing valves.€� (pg. 30-31).

So what does this all mean to you? Well, if you have a 2 or 3 handle tub/shower valve currently in your home, you have been grandfathered in and you dont need to immediately replace it. However, if something goes wrong with that valve and it must be replaced, you will have to do so with a single handle pressure balanced or thermostatically controlled valve.

While you can still purchase these two or three handle faucets online and from some suppliers and install them yourself, or have a non licensed plumbing professional install them, we wouldnt recommend this. This devalues your home and puts your family at risk of severe water scalding. Let a licensed professional do the necessary work to make sure your home is repaired to code and under a solid warranty.

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...al-329902-.htm

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:01:18 +0000, jane doe
wrote:

The Uniform Plumbing Code and International Building Code, in accordance with ASSE 1016, require that all tub/shower faucets now be of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Two and three valve handles are not. The purpose for this is to prevent serious harm from hot water scalding.

The exact text from the Uniform Plumbing Code book, ISSN 0733-2335, states in section 420.0 – SHOWER
AND TUB/SHOWER COMBINATION CONTROL VALVES:

“Showers and tub/shower combinations in all buildings shall be provided with individual control valves of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Gang showers, when supplied with a single temperature controlled water supply pipe, may be controlled by a master thermostatic mixing valve in lieu of individually controlled pressure balance or thermostatic mixing valves.” (pg. 30-31).

So what does this all mean to you? Well, if you have a 2 or 3 handle tub/shower valve currently in your home, you have been grandfathered in and you don’t need to immediately replace it. However, if something goes wrong with that valve and it must be replaced, you will have to do so with a single handle pressure balanced or thermostatically controlled valve.

Which CAN be a 2 handle or 3 handle type - they DO make and sell
them. Also a tempering valve at the water heater that limits the max
water temp can eliminate the requirement fot the thermostatically
controlled shower unit - at least here in Ontario where THEY are a
requirement. If I have a plumber replace my water heate rhe HAS to
install the tempering valve. If I install it myself I can just replace
it as is

While you can still purchase these two or three handle faucets online and from some suppliers and install them yourself, or have a non licensed plumbing professional install them, we wouldn’t recommend this. This devalues your home and puts your family at risk of severe water scalding. Let a licensed professional do the necessary work to make sure your home is repaired to code and under a solid warranty.

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:01:23 AM UTC-4, jane doe wrote:
The Uniform Plumbing Code and International Building Code, in accordance with ASSE 1016, require that all tub/shower faucets now be of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Two and three valve handles are not. The purpose for this is to prevent serious harm from hot water scalding.
The exact text from the Uniform Plumbing Code book, ISSN 0733-2335, states in section 420.0 €“ SHOWER
AND TUB/SHOWER COMBINATION CONTROL VALVES:

€œShowers and tub/shower combinations in all buildings shall be provided with individual control valves of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Gang showers, when supplied with a single temperature controlled water supply pipe, may be controlled by a master thermostatic mixing valve in lieu of individually controlled pressure balance or thermostatic mixing valves.€� (pg. 30-31).

So what does this all mean to you? Well, if you have a 2 or 3 handle tub/shower valve currently in your home, you have been grandfathered in and you dont need to immediately replace it. However, if something goes wrong with that valve and it must be replaced, you will have to do so with a single handle pressure balanced or thermostatically controlled valve.

Sounds dubious to me. I can see it as a requirement if the shower/tub is being replaced,
it's a bathroom remodel, etc. But not if it's just that the old valve needs to be replaced.
And whatever it is, it's always up to the local or state authority that has jurisdiction as
to if it's OK or not.

In article ,
says...

Sounds dubious to me. I can see it as a requirement if the shower/tub is being replaced,
it's a bathroom remodel, etc. But not if it's just that the old valve needs to be replaced.
And whatever it is, it's always up to the local or state authority that has jurisdiction as
to if it's OK or not.






I hate those one valve showers. Seems that the mix is often too cold
for me . Especially in the winter time where the incomming water is
much colder. I would rather take my chances of the water comming out
too hot. As long as you tell others in the house not to use the water
it is mostly safe.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 16:20:16 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Sounds dubious to me. I can see it as a requirement if the shower/tub is being replaced,
it's a bathroom remodel, etc. But not if it's just that the old valve needs to be replaced.
And whatever it is, it's always up to the local or state authority that has jurisdiction as
to if it's OK or not.






I hate those one valve showers. Seems that the mix is often too cold
for me . Especially in the winter time where the incomming water is
much colder. I would rather take my chances of the water comming out
too hot. As long as you tell others in the house not to use the water
it is mostly safe.

You can go it and crank up the heat on those valves. You usually
remove the handle and rotate the plastic disk that limits the travel
or sets the balance. I just set mine up wide open and use the common
sense you were given.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 11:45:25 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:01:23 AM UTC-4, jane doe wrote:
The Uniform Plumbing Code and International Building Code, in accordance with ASSE 1016, require that all tub/shower faucets now be of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Two and three valve handles are not. The purpose for this is to prevent serious harm from hot water scalding.
The exact text from the Uniform Plumbing Code book, ISSN 0733-2335, states in section 420.0 €“ SHOWER
AND TUB/SHOWER COMBINATION CONTROL VALVES:

€œShowers and tub/shower combinations in all buildings shall be provided with individual control valves of the pressure balance or the thermostatic mixing valve type. Gang showers, when supplied with a single temperature controlled water supply pipe, may be controlled by a master thermostatic mixing valve in lieu of individually
controlled pressure balance or thermostatic mixing valves.€� (pg. 30-31).

So what does this all mean to you? Well, if you have a 2 or 3 handle tub/shower valve currently in your home, you have been grandfathered in and you dont need to immediately replace it. However, if something goes wrong with that valve and it must be replaced, you will have to do so with a single handle pressure balanced or
thermostatically controlled valve.

Sounds dubious to me. I can see it as a requirement if the shower/tub is being replaced,
it's a bathroom remodel, etc. But not if it's just that the old valve needs to be replaced.
And whatever it is, it's always up to the local or state authority that has jurisdiction as
to if it's OK or not.

If you get a permit and the valve is replaced it will have to be a
current code valve in most places. If the old valve body remains and
it is just "repaired" it can stay.
Without a permit, it is up to how much your "plumber" values his
license if he has one.

In article ,
says...

If you get a permit and the valve is replaced it will have to be a
current code valve in most places. If the old valve body remains and
it is just "repaired" it can stay.
Without a permit, it is up to how much your "plumber" values his
license if he has one.



Glad we can do our own electrical and plumbing work with out a permit or
contractor in most cases for repairs. Even some new additions to the
house like another outlet or light.

On 6/11/2021 6:58 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
If you get a permit and the valve is replaced it will have to be a
current code valve in most places. If the old valve body remains and
it is just "repaired" it can stay.
Without a permit, it is up to how much your "plumber" values his
license if he has one.


Glad we can do our own electrical and plumbing work with out a permit or
contractor in most cases for repairs. Even some new additions to the
house like another outlet or light.


Guy down the street swapped out a water heater and put the old one by the curb for garbage pickup.

AHJ nazi drove by and saw the old heater and wrote the homeowner up for no permit.


Moral of the story is don't set the old heater out in front of your own house.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 18:58:59 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

If you get a permit and the valve is replaced it will have to be a
current code valve in most places. If the old valve body remains and
it is just "repaired" it can stay.
Without a permit, it is up to how much your "plumber" values his
license if he has one.



Glad we can do our own electrical and plumbing work with out a permit or
contractor in most cases for repairs. Even some new additions to the
house like another outlet or light.

That is why I said "if you get a permit". There are AHJs that want
permits for replacing electrical devices and any plumbing that
requires opening up pipes will as well.
Water heaters are usually what gets you in trouble in those places
tho. An old water heater on the curb with no record of a permit might
get a knock on your door but that is just easier to detect. It really
just depends on how hungry the AHJ is.