On Aug 23, 9:23�am, Chris Hill wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:15:09 -0500, AZ Nomad

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:39:41 -0500, Chris Hill wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:55:44 -0500, AZ Nomad
Probably need more than one. �An attic is to insulate, not use for
storage. �If you have stuff that you'd keep up there, maybe time to
throw it out.

exactly wrong.

Nothing survives well in attic heat, and putting stuff on top of the
insulation crushes it and reduces its insulating value. �Besides that,

You're insane. � Only a ****ing idiot stores junk directly on top of
insulation.
Install 4x8 plywood sheets where one is going to use

And then those crush the insulation. �A well insulated attic will have
more than six inches in it. �Besides that, you still get fiberglass
dust in your stuff, a real bad idea.

a buddy ran 2 by 4s the other direction, added blown in insulation and
topped with plywood.

no home has enough storage space, at resale time attic storage is a
saes plus

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:23:43 -0500, Chris Hill wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:15:09 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:39:41 -0500, Chris Hill wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:55:44 -0500, AZ Nomad
Probably need more than one. An attic is to insulate, not use for
storage. If you have stuff that you'd keep up there, maybe time to
throw it out.

exactly wrong.

Nothing survives well in attic heat, and putting stuff on top of the
insulation crushes it and reduces its insulating value. Besides that,

You're insane. Only a ****ing idiot stores junk directly on top of
insulation.
Install 4x8 plywood sheets where one is going to use


And then those crush the insulation. A well insulated attic will have
more than six inches in it. Besides that, you still get fiberglass
dust in your stuff, a real bad idea.

More insanity. There'll be 2x8's every 16 inches. Put the plywood on
top of them.
As far as FG dust, insulation made in the last hundred years has a
plastic sheet on one side. You really need to quit talking out of
your ass.

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:23:43 -0500, Chris Hill
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:15:09 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:39:41 -0500, Chris Hill
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:55:44 -0500, AZ Nomad
Probably need more than one. An attic is to insulate, not use for
storage. If you have stuff that you'd keep up there, maybe time to
throw it out.

exactly wrong.

Nothing survives well in attic heat, and putting stuff on top of the
insulation crushes it and reduces its insulating value. Besides that,

You're insane. Only a ****ing idiot stores junk directly on top of
insulation.
Install 4x8 plywood sheets where one is going to use


And then those crush the insulation. A well insulated attic will have
more than six inches in it. Besides that, you still get fiberglass
dust in your stuff, a real bad idea.

More insanity. There'll be 2x8's every 16 inches. Put the plywood on
top of them.
As far as FG dust, insulation made in the last hundred years has a
plastic sheet on one side. You really need to quit talking out of
your ass.

Where do these 2X8's come from? Most houses built in the last 50 years or
so use pre-engineered trusses and I don't recall seeing any (many?) that use
anything more than 2X4's.

I also have not seen this F/G insulation with the plastic sheet attached
that you talk about. Most F/G batts that I have seen and used come packed
in a big plastic bag but when you cut the bag open all you get are loose
batts, no foil, no paper, no plastic. Also what about rock wool insulation,
blown in F/G or blown in cellulose?

Storing stuff in an undeveloped attic is just a bad idea.

On Aug 23, 8:48 am, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
the point i was trying to make was that we don't really need FANS to
ventilate an attic. A few simple roof vents and eave vents does just fine.

If you don't have that option, fans can help. case in point, my house
- the roof ends right at the side of the house, no overhang -
therefore no vents there. PO's put on a new metal roof, so I am not
inclined to try to retrofit a ridge vent. The only vents are the two
in the end walls of the house. A fan in this application makes sense
to me, unless I were to have someone come in and reframe the attic to
put a modern-style roof on it, which sounds a lot more expensive.

nate

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:18:11 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:23:43 -0500, Chris Hill wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:15:09 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:39:41 -0500, Chris Hill wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:55:44 -0500, AZ Nomad
Probably need more than one. An attic is to insulate, not use for
storage. If you have stuff that you'd keep up there, maybe time to
throw it out.

exactly wrong.

Nothing survives well in attic heat, and putting stuff on top of the
insulation crushes it and reduces its insulating value. Besides that,

You're insane. Only a ****ing idiot stores junk directly on top of
insulation.
Install 4x8 plywood sheets where one is going to use


And then those crush the insulation. A well insulated attic will have
more than six inches in it. Besides that, you still get fiberglass
dust in your stuff, a real bad idea.

More insanity. There'll be 2x8's every 16 inches. Put the plywood on
top of them.
As far as FG dust, insulation made in the last hundred years has a
plastic sheet on one side. You really need to quit talking out of


My house was built in '79. It has no plastic on one side of the
insulation, it is fiberglass wads. You, sir, are the one discussing
things with your anal oriface.

I also, have never seen plastic on FG insulation. I have seen paper
backing, but it would be down towards the ceiling. OH, and BTW, the 7.25"
of insulation you'd have with your 2x8's is only about half of what you
need.

s


"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...

More insanity. There'll be 2x8's every 16 inches. Put the plywood on
top of them.
As far as FG dust, insulation made in the last hundred years has a
plastic sheet on one side. You really need to quit talking out of
your ass.

Perhaps in this case a fan could be beneficial. But so could a white roof.
But you don't see many light colored roof anymore. Some people just create
their own problems.

s


"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Aug 23, 8:48 am, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
the point i was trying to make was that we don't really need FANS to
ventilate an attic. A few simple roof vents and eave vents does just
fine.

If you don't have that option, fans can help. case in point, my house
- the roof ends right at the side of the house, no overhang -
therefore no vents there. PO's put on a new metal roof, so I am not
inclined to try to retrofit a ridge vent. The only vents are the two
in the end walls of the house. A fan in this application makes sense
to me, unless I were to have someone come in and reframe the attic to
put a modern-style roof on it, which sounds a lot more expensive.

nate

I agree, the (newer) garage has a light tan/off-white seamed steel
roof, the attic fan in the garage was nonfunctional up until about a
month ago (I finally got around to replacing the thermoswitch.) Even
so it was always much cooler than the house which has a dark brown
aluminum fake-shingle roof. I wish they'd used the stuff that they
used on the garage on the house as well. I don't know how much
difference the color makes and how much is due to the garage being
shorter/more shaded, but it is significant.

nate

On Aug 23, 1:37 pm, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
Perhaps in this case a fan could be beneficial. But so could a white roof.
But you don't see many light colored roof anymore. Some people just create
their own problems.

s

"N8N" wrote in message

...

On Aug 23, 8:48 am, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
the point i was trying to make was that we don't really need FANS to
ventilate an attic. A few simple roof vents and eave vents does just
fine.

If you don't have that option, fans can help. case in point, my house
- the roof ends right at the side of the house, no overhang -
therefore no vents there. PO's put on a new metal roof, so I am not
inclined to try to retrofit a ridge vent. The only vents are the two
in the end walls of the house. A fan in this application makes sense
to me, unless I were to have someone come in and reframe the attic to
put a modern-style roof on it, which sounds a lot more expensive.

nate

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:24:14 -0600, Doug Brown wrote:
your ass.

Where do these 2X8's come from? Most houses built in the last 50 years or
so use pre-engineered trusses and I don't recall seeing any (many?) that use
anything more than 2X4's.

Oh, I'm sorry! If you put a plywood sheet on a 2x4, it would come
down like a house of cards in the wind!
Is that your latest insanity?

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:36:30 -0500, Chris Hill wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:18:11 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:23:43 -0500, Chris Hill wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:15:09 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:39:41 -0500, Chris Hill wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:55:44 -0500, AZ Nomad
Probably need more than one. An attic is to insulate, not use for
storage. If you have stuff that you'd keep up there, maybe time to
throw it out.

exactly wrong.

Nothing survives well in attic heat, and putting stuff on top of the
insulation crushes it and reduces its insulating value. Besides that,

You're insane. Only a ****ing idiot stores junk directly on top of
insulation.
Install 4x8 plywood sheets where one is going to use


And then those crush the insulation. A well insulated attic will have
more than six inches in it. Besides that, you still get fiberglass
dust in your stuff, a real bad idea.

More insanity. There'll be 2x8's every 16 inches. Put the plywood on
top of them.
As far as FG dust, insulation made in the last hundred years has a
plastic sheet on one side. You really need to quit talking out of


My house was built in '79. It has no plastic on one side of the
insulation, it is fiberglass wads. You, sir, are the one discussing
things with your anal oriface.

You clearly have never installed FB insulation.

On Aug 17, 10:41*am, Anthony Lisanti wrote:
I have no attic fan to draw out warm air in the summer, and I was
wondering how difficult this is to install? *

Or, who can I call to have this put in? *I don't know if I trust going
to home deport and getting a list of contractors from them. *I mean,
the people at my HD are like clueless zombies, so how good could the
contractors be?

Tony

Anthony: the fan does not necessarily have to be in the roof, although
many fans and vents are.
In our case we installed fan in the in the end gable of single storey
house.
It draws out hot air. Fresh air comes in via the soffit vents and a
vent in the gable at the other end of the house. During the winter in
this fairly severe climate we close off and/or remove the fan. Right
now it's on a switch but intend to put it on a thermostat so it cuts
in when the attic area gets hot!

Steve Barker DLT wrote:

the point i was trying to make was that we don't really need FANS to
ventilate an attic. A few simple roof vents and eave vents does just fine.

s


"CJT" wrote in message
...


We went hundreds of years without air conditioning, or even electricity.
What's your point?




You must not live in the south. Natural ventilation simply won't do
the job in some cases -- I have plenty, and my attic still reaches
150 degrees without a fan (which holds it to 120 +/-).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Dark colored roof i'll bet. And no, i live in the middle. 100 degrees only
occasionally.

s


"CJT" wrote in message
...

You must not live in the south. Natural ventilation simply won't do
the job in some cases -- I have plenty, and my attic still reaches
150 degrees without a fan (which holds it to 120 +/-).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Aug 17, 5:41*am, Anthony Lisanti wrote:
I have no attic fan to draw out warm air in the summer, and I was
wondering how difficult this is to install? *

Or, who can I call to have this put in? *I don't know if I trust going
to home deport and getting a list of contractors from them. *I mean,
the people at my HD are like clueless zombies, so how good could the
contractors be?

Tony

Hi,
I just had a whole house fan installed and what a difference it has
made. We have only used our ac 1 time and we get 90-100+ degees all
summer. It cools the attic and keeps the house cool. It can cost to
have it installed, but ours came with a life time warranty and we got
a $100 rebate from our electric company. The cost was about $900 to
install. We purchased it from the 'Home and Garden Show' in our
neighbor town. Good luck, Trax

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
Dark colored roof i'll bet. And no, i live in the middle. 100 degrees only
occasionally.


No, I have a light color roof. But I'm in Austin, Texas. We just
finished a run of over 30 consecutive days with temps in the 100's.

s


"CJT" wrote in message
...

You must not live in the south. Natural ventilation simply won't do
the job in some cases -- I have plenty, and my attic still reaches
150 degrees without a fan (which holds it to 120 +/-).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .





--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:06:13 -0500, CJT wrote:

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
Dark colored roof i'll bet. And no, i live in the middle. 100 degrees only
occasionally.


No, I have a light color roof. But I'm in Austin, Texas. We just
finished a run of over 30 consecutive days with temps in the 100's.


I'm in east Texas (near Tyler). The A/C couldn't quite keep up 3 weeks
ago.

s


"CJT" wrote in message
...

You must not live in the south. Natural ventilation simply won't do
the job in some cases -- I have plenty, and my attic still reaches
150 degrees without a fan (which holds it to 120 +/-).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .



--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:48:35 -0700 (PDT), trax
wrote:

On Aug 17, 5:41*am, Anthony Lisanti wrote:
I have no attic fan to draw out warm air in the summer, and I was
wondering how difficult this is to install? *

Or, who can I call to have this put in? *I don't know if I trust going
to home deport and getting a list of contractors from them. *I mean,
the people at my HD are like clueless zombies, so how good could the
contractors be?

Tony

Hi,
I just had a whole house fan installed and what a difference it has
made. We have only used our ac 1 time and we get 90-100+ degees all
summer. It cools the attic and keeps the house cool. It can cost to
have it installed, but ours came with a life time warranty and we got
a $100 rebate from our electric company. The cost was about $900 to
install. We purchased it from the 'Home and Garden Show' in our
neighbor town. Good luck, Trax


I have plywood down to walk on. I never said anything about putting
stuff on top of insulation. I sit behind a desk all day and even I
know not to do that.

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:06:13 -0500, CJT wrote:


Steve Barker DLT wrote:

Dark colored roof i'll bet. And no, i live in the middle. 100 degrees only
occasionally.


No, I have a light color roof. But I'm in Austin, Texas. We just
finished a run of over 30 consecutive days with temps in the 100's.



I'm in east Texas (near Tyler). The A/C couldn't quite keep up 3 weeks
ago.


An attic exhaust fan can help. Before we installed ours, we could
feel the heat coming off the upstairs ceiling, even though we have
reasonably good insulation (of course one can always use more, so
that's an alternative to reach the same goal). Now the ceiling is
cool. The downside is that the electricity to run the fan isn't
free. However, I think (haven't figured out how to prove, though)
that the decreased load on the A/C pays to power the fan, and the
A/C should last longer now that it isn't working as hard.

Remember, though, that typically only something like 20% of your heat
gain (as I recall) is through the ceiling.

It's all a big balancing act.

s


"CJT" wrote in message
...


You must not live in the south. Natural ventilation simply won't do
the job in some cases -- I have plenty, and my attic still reaches
150 degrees without a fan (which holds it to 120 +/-).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .





--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

The facts are that heat enters the home via radiation, convection and
conduction.
Its better and cheaper to use passive measures rather than electricity-
which costs more every day.
A white or light colored roof reflects the heat away from the inside
of the home.
Polyurethane insulation is better by far than fiber glass , its also
best when sprayed in as it takes up the shape of the space and fills
all the holes.
Polystyrene fitted under the ceiling stops the the remaining heat
conducted by the wood frame.
Perry

wrote in message
...

A ridge vent does nothing. a fan is necessary

OK I will bite why is a fan necessary?

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:25:24 -0700, Mike wrote:

wrote in message
...

A ridge vent does nothing. a fan is necessary

OK I will bite why is a fan necessary?


are you argueing with yourself?