Hello,
I recently replaced my back patio light with a security (motion)
light. It is on a switch that is inside. It seems to work fine with
the exception of one odd behavior. When I turn off a light in the
house (kitchen or living room), the security lights come on for about
20 seconds. It doesn’t do anything when I turn on the lights in the
house. Only when I turn them off. I’m guessing they are on the same
circuit. In addition to the white and black wires at the mount, there
was a copper ground wire coming out of the wall. The security light
mount had a ground screw, but I chose to put the ground on the copper
ground wire instead. Would that have something to do with it? Anyway,
I don’t expect it is a hazard and I can live with the oddity but if
anyone has a good solution, I would like to try it. Thanks. Larry

On Aug 14, 11:58*am, BigLar wrote:
Hello,
I recently replaced my back patio light with a security (motion)
light. It is on a switch that is inside. It seems to work fine with
the exception of one odd behavior. When I turn off a light in the
house (kitchen or living room), the security lights come on for about
20 seconds. It doesn’t do anything when I turn on the lights in the
house. Only when I turn them off. I’m guessing they are on the same
circuit. In addition to the white and black wires at the mount, there
was a copper ground wire coming out of the wall. The security light
mount had a ground screw, but I chose to put the ground on the copper
ground wire instead. Would that have something to do with it? Anyway,
I don’t expect it is a hazard and I can live with the oddity but if
anyone has a good solution, I would like to try it. Thanks. Larry

Let me guess... You can stand under the security light and look into
the kitchen and living room windows.

Your motion sensor is "seeing" the act of the light going off as
motion, and is turning on in response to the perceived motion.

On Aug 14, 11:58*am, BigLar wrote:
Hello,
I recently replaced my back patio light with a security (motion)
light. It is on a switch that is inside. It seems to work fine with
the exception of one odd behavior. When I turn off a light in the
house (kitchen or living room), the security lights come on for about
20 seconds. It doesn’t do anything when I turn on the lights in the
house. Only when I turn them off. I’m guessing they are on the same
circuit. In addition to the white and black wires at the mount, there
was a copper ground wire coming out of the wall. The security light
mount had a ground screw, but I chose to put the ground on the copper
ground wire instead. Would that have something to do with it? Anyway,
I don’t expect it is a hazard and I can live with the oddity but if
anyone has a good solution, I would like to try it. Thanks. Larry

I’m guessing they are on the same circuit.

If you don't know if they are on the same circuit, you should be
spending a little time mapping and labeling your breaker box.

I'll assume you turned off the breaker for that circuit before you
replaced the light, right? And I'll assume it was daytime so you don't
know what other lights were affected, right?

I certainly hope that's the case.

On Aug 14, 2:07*pm, wrote:
On Aug 14, 11:58*am, BigLar wrote:

Hello,
I recently replaced my back patio light with a security (motion)
light. It is on a switch that is inside. It seems to work fine with
the exception of one odd behavior. When I turn off a light in the
house (kitchen or living room), the security lights come on for about
20 seconds. It doesn’t do anything when I turn on the lights in the
house. Only when I turn them off. I’m guessing they are on the same
circuit. In addition to the white and black wires at the mount, there
was a copper ground wire coming out of the wall. The security light
mount had a ground screw, but I chose to put the ground on the copper
ground wire instead. Would that have something to do with it? Anyway,
I don’t expect it is a hazard and I can live with the oddity but if
anyone has a good solution, I would like to try it. Thanks. Larry

Let me guess... You can stand under the security light and look into
the kitchen and living room windows.

Your motion sensor is "seeing" the act of the light going off as
motion, and is turning on in response to the perceived motion.

Why wouldn't it "see" the light coming on as a motion?

wrote

Let me guess... You can stand under the security light and look into
the kitchen and living room windows.

Your motion sensor is "seeing" the act of the light going off as
motion, and is turning on in response to the perceived motion.

LOL! Now why didnt I think of that?

On Aug 14, 9:38*pm, "cshenk" wrote:
wrote

*Let me guess... You can stand under the security light and look into
*the kitchen and living room windows.

Your motion sensor is "seeing" the act of the light going off as
motion, and is turning on in response to the perceived motion.

LOL! *Now why didnt I think of that?

Actually, it is not the problem. Although a pretty good theory, I went
home yesterday and disproved it. In the living room, there is an
overlead light/fan combo. I pulled the light string to off so there
would be no visible light. I then flipped the switch to on and
nothing. However, once I flipped the switch off the outside security
lights came on for about 15 seconds. Is apparently has something to do
with the circuit it is on but I don't know enough about electricity to
know what it be. Any more ideas? Thanks.

On Aug 15, 9:30*am, BigLar wrote:
On Aug 14, 9:38*pm, "cshenk" wrote:

wrote

*Let me guess... You can stand under the security light and look into
*the kitchen and living room windows.

Your motion sensor is "seeing" the act of the light going off as
motion, and is turning on in response to the perceived motion.

LOL! *Now why didnt I think of that?

Actually, it is not the problem. Although a pretty good theory, I went
home yesterday and disproved it. In the living room, there is an
overlead light/fan combo. I pulled the light string to off so there
would be no visible light. I then flipped the switch to on and
nothing. However, once I flipped the switch off the outside security
lights came on for about 15 seconds. Is apparently has something to do
with the circuit it is on but I don't know enough about electricity to
know what it be. Any more ideas? Thanks.

Many motion-detector (MD) controlled fixtures will come on for a few
seconds when first powered on.

It sounds like the flipping of the living room switch to the off
position is sending some sort of "signal" to the MD making it think it
was just powered on.

Maybe the living room switch is arcing when it breaks the circuit.
Here's what I would try:

- I would first verify that the living room switch and the MD are
indeed on the same circuit.
- I would then locate any other switches that are on the circuit and
see if they cause the same "problem"
- If not, I would replace the suspect switch in the living room. (Turn
off the breaker first!)
- If other switches, either on that circuit or not, cause the same
problem, then come on back and let us know so we can offer some other
suggestions - like perhaps you should call an electrician.

On 8/15/2008 7:15 AM DerbyDad03 spake thus:

On Aug 15, 9:30 am, BigLar wrote:
On Aug 14, 9:38 pm, "cshenk" wrote:

wrote

Let me guess... You can stand under the security light and look into
the kitchen and living room windows.

Your motion sensor is "seeing" the act of the light going off as
motion, and is turning on in response to the perceived motion.

LOL! Now why didnt I think of that?

Actually, it is not the problem. Although a pretty good theory, I went
home yesterday and disproved it. In the living room, there is an
overlead light/fan combo. I pulled the light string to off so there
would be no visible light. I then flipped the switch to on and
nothing. However, once I flipped the switch off the outside security
lights came on for about 15 seconds. Is apparently has something to do
with the circuit it is on but I don't know enough about electricity to
know what it be. Any more ideas? Thanks.

Many motion-detector (MD) controlled fixtures will come on for a few
seconds when first powered on.

It sounds like the flipping of the living room switch to the off
position is sending some sort of "signal" to the MD making it think it
was just powered on.

Maybe the living room switch is arcing when it breaks the circuit.

I think your first guess is pretty good, but your second (an arcing
switch) is grasping at straws here.

Isn't it more likely that the motion sensor is just on the fritz? Right
now I'm dealing with about half a dozen different motion-detector lights
among different clients. About half of them don't work because the
sensors have gone bad.

Fortunately, the sensors (assuming this is one of the garden-variety
type that's available everywhere) are pretty cheap, easy to get and easy
to replace. They should *not* be affected by the turnings on and off of
nearby devices.


--
"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
that. Let ME do it.'"

- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority".

"David Nebenzahl" wrote

Isn't it more likely that the motion sensor is just on the fritz? Right
now I'm dealing with about half a dozen different motion-detector lights
among different clients. About half of them don't work because the sensors
have gone bad.

Fortunately, the sensors (assuming this is one of the garden-variety type
that's available everywhere) are pretty cheap, easy to get and easy to
replace. They should *not* be affected by the turnings on and off of
nearby devices.

David, we have one we unplugged and were about to replace but maybe it's
just the sensor? It no longer turns off like it should. Rather than pay
for repair, we were going to replace but if the sensor is that easy, can you
describe how such might be replaced?

I already have the new unit but I also have a spot I'd rather use it at.
I'd like to put one in the screened porch so when making a short traipse out
with the dog, it comes on til I cross to where the regular switches are.

On 8/15/2008 11:40 AM cshenk spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote

Isn't it more likely that the motion sensor is just on the fritz? Right
now I'm dealing with about half a dozen different motion-detector lights
among different clients. About half of them don't work because the sensors
have gone bad.

Fortunately, the sensors (assuming this is one of the garden-variety type
that's available everywhere) are pretty cheap, easy to get and easy to
replace. They should *not* be affected by the turnings on and off of
nearby devices.

David, we have one we unplugged and were about to replace but maybe it's
just the sensor? It no longer turns off like it should. Rather than pay
for repair, we were going to replace but if the sensor is that easy, can you
describe how such might be replaced?

Again, assuming it's like the standard ones you get at Home Despot and
elsewhere, where the sensor hangs down under the fixture with the two
lampholders, it's super-simple: open up the fixture to expose the
wiring, disconnect the wires going to the sensor (they're a certain
color, I *think* red), then pull off the sensor. Stick the new sensor
in, reconnect, close it up, that's it.

I already have the new unit but I also have a spot I'd rather use it at.
I'd like to put one in the screened porch so when making a short traipse out
with the dog, it comes on til I cross to where the regular switches are.

Since the sensors are available separately from the lights, one thing
people often don't realize is that you don't have to buy the whole thing
in one unit. I have one customer who had me put in a nice outdoor light
fixture she'd bought, with a gooseneck and a nice shade, install it on
the wall, then install the sensor in a different location and wire them
together. This way, you can control any kind of lighting fixture
(assuming it's line voltage, not low voltage) from a sensor, and they
can be in two completely different locations. The sensors are pretty
cheap, too.


--
"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
that. Let ME do it.'"

- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority".

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...

Since the sensors are available separately from the lights, one thing
people often don't realize is that you don't have to buy the whole thing
in one unit. I have one customer who had me put in a nice outdoor light
fixture she'd bought, with a gooseneck and a nice shade, install it on the
wall, then install the sensor in a different location and wire them
together. This way, you can control any kind of lighting fixture (assuming
it's line voltage, not low voltage) from a sensor, and they can be in two
completely different locations. The sensors are pretty cheap, too.

I bought a seperate sensor and use it to power a 120-12V converter which
then powers a SUPER bright strobe and a 12V 130 db warble siren. The system
is mounted under the eaves of my detached workshop, 40' from the house. The
sensor is aimed toward the only door and the windows are barred. A switch in
the house energizes the system so that I can turn it on *after* I get in the
house. Imagine a thief skulking in the dark and having that thing go off!
I've considered installing a motion sensing digital camcorder to capture the
fun :-) I do keep a pooper scooper handy!

On 8/15/2008 2:27 PM PanHandler spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...

Since the sensors are available separately from the lights, one thing
people often don't realize is that you don't have to buy the whole thing
in one unit. I have one customer who had me put in a nice outdoor light
fixture she'd bought, with a gooseneck and a nice shade, install it on the
wall, then install the sensor in a different location and wire them
together. This way, you can control any kind of lighting fixture (assuming
it's line voltage, not low voltage) from a sensor, and they can be in two
completely different locations. The sensors are pretty cheap, too.

I bought a seperate sensor and use it to power a 120-12V converter which
then powers a SUPER bright strobe and a 12V 130 db warble siren. The system
is mounted under the eaves of my detached workshop, 40' from the house. The
sensor is aimed toward the only door and the windows are barred. A switch in
the house energizes the system so that I can turn it on *after* I get in the
house. Imagine a thief skulking in the dark and having that thing go off!
I've considered installing a motion sensing digital camcorder to capture the
fun :-) I do keep a pooper scooper handy!

Well, that answers my question whether one could use those sensors with
non-resistive (i.e., inductive) loads like transformers. Guess you can,
so you could run low-voltage lights if you wanted.


--
"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
that. Let ME do it.'"

- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority".

"David Nebenzahl" wrote
On 8/15/2008 11:40 AM cshenk spake thus:

David, we have one we unplugged and were about to replace but maybe it's
just the sensor? It no longer turns off like it should. Rather than pay
for repair, we were going to replace but if the sensor is that easy, can
you describe how such might be replaced?

Again, assuming it's like the standard ones you get at Home Despot and

It is. Simple thing there.

elsewhere, where the sensor hangs down under the fixture with the two
lampholders, it's super-simple: open up the fixture to expose the wiring,
disconnect the wires going to the sensor (they're a certain color, I
*think* red), then pull off the sensor. Stick the new sensor in,
reconnect, close it up, that's it.

Ok, sounds easy enough. I will go shopping tomorrow and see if I can locate
a new sensor.

I already have the new unit but I also have a spot I'd rather use it at.
I'd like to put one in the screened porch so when making a short traipse
out with the dog, it comes on til I cross to where the regular switches
are.

Since the sensors are available separately from the lights, one thing
people often don't realize is that you don't have to buy the whole thing
in one unit. I have one customer who had me put in a nice outdoor light

I can then put the other unit in the back porch (grin). Will really freak
out anyone who shouldnt be there but mostly it will let me walk the dog at
night easier when he has to go pee. *nothing* should move back there but us
as it's a framed in screened room.

On 8/15/2008 2:39 PM cshenk spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote

On 8/15/2008 11:40 AM cshenk spake thus:

David, we have one we unplugged and were about to replace but maybe it's
just the sensor? It no longer turns off like it should. Rather than pay
for repair, we were going to replace but if the sensor is that easy, can
you describe how such might be replaced?

Again, assuming it's like the standard ones you get at Home Despot and

It is. Simple thing there.

elsewhere, where the sensor hangs down under the fixture with the two
lampholders, it's super-simple: open up the fixture to expose the wiring,
disconnect the wires going to the sensor (they're a certain color, I
*think* red), then pull off the sensor. Stick the new sensor in,
reconnect, close it up, that's it.

Ok, sounds easy enough. I will go shopping tomorrow and see if I can locate
a new sensor.

Just to follow up on my own posting with some more detailed
instructions, after looking at one of those lights:

The sensor has 3 wires: black, white & red.

- Black goes to the incoming cable black;
- White gets tied to the two whites from the lampholders and the
incoming cable white;
- Red goes to both of the lampholder blacks.

The sensor is screwed into the base like the lampholders. After removing
the wires, loosen the locknut, then unscrew it. After screwing in the
new sensor, make sure it's positioned correctly on the base, then
tighten the locknut. You'll be able to move the sensor to aim it.


--
"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
that. Let ME do it.'"

- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority".

"David Nebenzahl" wrote

Just to follow up on my own posting with some more detailed instructions,
after looking at one of those lights:

Don's home now. I read those to him and he said makes sense, so I'm to shop
for a new sensor tomorrow before the grocery run.

The sensor has 3 wires: black, white & red.

- Black goes to the incoming cable black;
- White gets tied to the two whites from the lampholders and the incoming
cable white;
- Red goes to both of the lampholder blacks.

I bet he can just follow the coloring of the old set. The new fixture then,
can be used on the back screened porch. Cool!