The boiler pilot light goes does not stay on, once the pilot light is
started and I turn the thermostat is turned up the boiler starts up and
stays on for around 30 to 60 seconds then goes out completely.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I can check or needs replacing before
going mad and changing all sorts of parts ?

In message .com, Bal
writes
The boiler pilot light goes does not stay on, once the pilot light is
started and I turn the thermostat is turned up the boiler starts up and
stays on for around 30 to 60 seconds then goes out completely.

This doesn't exactly make sense to me


Has anyone got any ideas on what I can check or needs replacing before
going mad and changing all sorts of parts ?

This came up a few days ago

check the fan - if the winding's too hot to touch, it's your fan

If the fan's OK, then we can look elsewhere, but check the fan first

--
geoff

"Bal" wrote in message
oups.com...
The boiler pilot light goes does not stay on, once the pilot light is
started and I turn the thermostat is turned up the boiler starts up and
stays on for around 30 to 60 seconds then goes out completely.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I can check or needs replacing before
going mad and changing all sorts of parts ?


Possibly a stuck pump, therefore your boiler reaches temp very quickly and
goes off?

Angus

On 6 Jan 2006 05:30:07 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

The boiler pilot light goes does not stay on, once the pilot light is
started and I turn the thermostat is turned up the boiler starts up and
stays on for around 30 to 60 seconds then goes out completely.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I can check or needs replacing before
going mad and changing all sorts of parts ?

Do you mean that the pilot light will stay lit if the boiler isn't
firing but goes out (and the burners too) after the burner fires?


If so, it could be that the flame failure thermocouple (capillary
device from pilot to gas valve) is on its way out. These can be
obtained as a universal type for about £3 from plumbers merchants or
DIY stores. I would suggest replacing that first.

Also check that the pilot jet is clean and producing enough of a flame
to heat the thermocouple properly.

Beyond these, you would probably be into needing replacement of
expensive components like the gas valve. On a boiler of this age,
that would be a questionnable investment.


--

..andy

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On 6 Jan 2006 05:30:07 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

The boiler pilot light goes does not stay on, once the pilot light is
started and I turn the thermostat is turned up the boiler starts up and
stays on for around 30 to 60 seconds then goes out completely.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I can check or needs replacing before
going mad and changing all sorts of parts ?

Do you mean that the pilot light will stay lit if the boiler isn't
firing but goes out (and the burners too) after the burner fires?


If so, it could be that the flame failure thermocouple (

Electronic ignition and flame sensing (PCB 202006 or 202052)

I still reckon that on a fuelsaver, the first port of call is the fan if
it's cutting out


--
geoff

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 20:44:48 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On 6 Jan 2006 05:30:07 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

The boiler pilot light goes does not stay on, once the pilot light is
started and I turn the thermostat is turned up the boiler starts up and
stays on for around 30 to 60 seconds then goes out completely.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I can check or needs replacing before
going mad and changing all sorts of parts ?

Do you mean that the pilot light will stay lit if the boiler isn't
firing but goes out (and the burners too) after the burner fires?


If so, it could be that the flame failure thermocouple (

Electronic ignition and flame sensing (PCB 202006 or 202052)

I still reckon that on a fuelsaver, the first port of call is the fan if
it's cutting out


Are you sure, Geoff?

I used to have one of those (pretty sure it was the Mk II) and it was
pilot ignition and simple minded controls....... no fan or pcb.


--

..andy

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 20:44:48 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On 6 Jan 2006 05:30:07 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

The boiler pilot light goes does not stay on, once the pilot light is
started and I turn the thermostat is turned up the boiler starts up and
stays on for around 30 to 60 seconds then goes out completely.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I can check or needs replacing before
going mad and changing all sorts of parts ?

Do you mean that the pilot light will stay lit if the boiler isn't
firing but goes out (and the burners too) after the burner fires?


If so, it could be that the flame failure thermocouple (

Electronic ignition and flame sensing (PCB 202006 or 202052)

I still reckon that on a fuelsaver, the first port of call is the fan if
it's cutting out


Are you sure, Geoff?

I used to have one of those (pretty sure it was the Mk II) and it was
pilot ignition and simple minded controls....... no fan or pcb.

Well, I could be wrong because I've never come across it, but the
fuelsaver I know isn't a "fuelsaver E" or any other designation. There
is the Fuelsaver "F" but both versions I know have a fan and a sequence
board in them

--
geoff

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 23:23:42 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 20:44:48 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On 6 Jan 2006 05:30:07 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

The boiler pilot light goes does not stay on, once the pilot light is
started and I turn the thermostat is turned up the boiler starts up and
stays on for around 30 to 60 seconds then goes out completely.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I can check or needs replacing before
going mad and changing all sorts of parts ?

Do you mean that the pilot light will stay lit if the boiler isn't
firing but goes out (and the burners too) after the burner fires?


If so, it could be that the flame failure thermocouple (

Electronic ignition and flame sensing (PCB 202006 or 202052)

I still reckon that on a fuelsaver, the first port of call is the fan if
it's cutting out


Are you sure, Geoff?

I used to have one of those (pretty sure it was the Mk II) and it was
pilot ignition and simple minded controls....... no fan or pcb.

Well, I could be wrong because I've never come across it, but the
fuelsaver I know isn't a "fuelsaver E" or any other designation. There
is the Fuelsaver "F" but both versions I know have a fan and a sequence
board in them

Yes, I think it's that.

The one I had was installed in 1985.

I looked on the SEDBUK database, and the original MkIIs show no fan
and efficiency of 65% - same as I remember it. Then there is an 'F'
model (fan I suppose) which has 68% and was manufactured up until 1991
(seems hardly worth the fan and PCB for 3% improvement). Finally
there are some others going up to 79%. Presumably they must have
changed the heat exchanger as well at that point.

Anyway.... for the OP's benefit, I had a thermocouple fail on two
occasions producing the same behaviour as (I think) he describes.
Even if it's not, it's only a £3 part.

--

..andy

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 14:58:38 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 23:23:42 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 20:44:48 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On 6 Jan 2006 05:30:07 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

The boiler pilot light goes does not stay on, once the pilot light is
started and I turn the thermostat is turned up the boiler starts up and
stays on for around 30 to 60 seconds then goes out completely.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I can check or needs replacing before
going mad and changing all sorts of parts ?

Do you mean that the pilot light will stay lit if the boiler isn't
firing but goes out (and the burners too) after the burner fires?


If so, it could be that the flame failure thermocouple (

Electronic ignition and flame sensing (PCB 202006 or 202052)

I still reckon that on a fuelsaver, the first port of call is the fan if
it's cutting out


Are you sure, Geoff?

I used to have one of those (pretty sure it was the Mk II) and it was
pilot ignition and simple minded controls....... no fan or pcb.

Well, I could be wrong because I've never come across it, but the
fuelsaver I know isn't a "fuelsaver E" or any other designation. There
is the Fuelsaver "F" but both versions I know have a fan and a sequence
board in them

Yes, I think it's that.

The one I had was installed in 1985.

I looked on the SEDBUK database, and the original MkIIs show no fan
and efficiency of 65% - same as I remember it. Then there is an 'F'
model (fan I suppose) which has 68% and was manufactured up until 1991
(seems hardly worth the fan and PCB for 3% improvement). Finally
there are some others going up to 79%. Presumably they must have
changed the heat exchanger as well at that point.

The 3% does sound rather too little improvement for adding a fan.
The lack of permanent pilot is reckoned as +4% alone.
The fan makes a huge contribution to the part-load efficiency.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

I have just replaced the Thermocouple and it has stayed up all weekend
and the same problem has started again this morning.

The boiler is a Glowworm Fuelsaver 40B MkII.

From the manual I have for this boiler there is no mention of a fan
anywhere, I have taken all covers from the boiler and all there seems
to be is the burners, flue hood, thermostat, ignition button, gas unit
and a some metal cooling fins at the top of the boiler (must be some
heat sink fins to heat the water). As I said no sign of any fan.

1. I press gas control knob and then 5 seconds later the ignition
button.
2. The pilot light stays on.
3. I turn the thermostat knob to 1 then 2 then 3 and then the rest of
the burners startup.
4. After 30/40 seconds all burners and pilot light goes out (back to
step 1).

Hope this all helps.

"Bal" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have just replaced the Thermocouple and it has stayed up all weekend
and the same problem has started again this morning.

The boiler is a Glowworm Fuelsaver 40B MkII.

IIRC the 40B is a balanced flue without a fan and has a permanent pilot.
It has an overheat interupter stat in the thermocouple circuit.
Based on this the problem is either no/low water flow rate (does it get
noisy?) or a failing thermocouple/poor connections in the circuit.

"John" wrote in message
...

"Bal" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have just replaced the Thermocouple and it has stayed up all weekend
and the same problem has started again this morning.

The boiler is a Glowworm Fuelsaver 40B MkII.

IIRC the 40B is a balanced flue without a fan and has a permanent pilot.
It has an overheat interupter stat in the thermocouple circuit.
Based on this the problem is either no/low water flow rate (does it get
noisy?) or a failing thermocouple/poor connections in the circuit.

This is all correct (I have one). Both the thermocouple and the overheat
device have been changed on mine. AFAICR it is possible to connect the
thermocouple without the overheat device for a test - although, of course,
one should not leave it like this.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

The boiler is not niosy at all other than you can hear the gas burners
running.

What I have noticed is that the flames are not all blue when the
heating is on, there seems to be alot of flickering orange flames like
it does not have much power in the burners.

On 10 Jan 2006 05:42:35 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

The boiler is not niosy at all other than you can hear the gas burners
running.

What I have noticed is that the flames are not all blue when the
heating is on, there seems to be alot of flickering orange flames like
it does not have much power in the burners.


Have you checked the flue for possible blockages?


--

..andy

I have checked the flue, all is clean, clear and the fumes are coming
out as normal.

On 11 Jan 2006 02:04:09 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

I have checked the flue, all is clean, clear and the fumes are coming
out as normal.


OK.

If you are still getting the main burner and pilot cutting out after
having replaced the thermocouple (but it has improved), then the only
things left are the overheat thermostat (I think you had a suggestion
on how to test that) or the gas valve.

The thermostat would be pretty cheap I would have thought. By the
time you get to a new gas valve I'd start to wonder if it's worth it
in a boiler of this age and whether replacement would make more
economic sense.

I'm still concerned by the flame colour though. It would be a very
good idea to get the flue gas composition checked for carbon monoxide.
Realistically, that is a professional job since flue gas analysers
cost around £200+


--

..andy

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:32:54 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 11 Jan 2006 02:04:09 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

I have checked the flue, all is clean, clear and the fumes are coming
out as normal.


OK.

If you are still getting the main burner and pilot cutting out after
having replaced the thermocouple (but it has improved), then the only
things left are the overheat thermostat (I think you had a suggestion
on how to test that) or the gas valve.

The thermostat would be pretty cheap I would have thought. By the
time you get to a new gas valve I'd start to wonder if it's worth it
in a boiler of this age and whether replacement would make more
economic sense.

I'm still concerned by the flame colour though. It would be a very
good idea to get the flue gas composition checked for carbon monoxide.
Realistically, that is a professional job since flue gas analysers
cost around £200+

The main causes for the OPs problems would be.
1) Lack of primary flow leading to over heating and shutdown.
2) A poor connection on the overheat stat that is set off by a slight rise
in temp.
3) A duff overheat stat.

N.B.
If the flames are yellow like a candle stop using this appliance, even
though it is a room sealed appliance.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:32:54 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 11 Jan 2006 02:04:09 -0800, "Bal" wrote:

I have checked the flue, all is clean, clear and the fumes are coming
out as normal.


OK.

If you are still getting the main burner and pilot cutting out after
having replaced the thermocouple (but it has improved), then the only
things left are the overheat thermostat (I think you had a suggestion
on how to test that) or the gas valve.

The thermostat would be pretty cheap I would have thought. By the
time you get to a new gas valve I'd start to wonder if it's worth it
in a boiler of this age and whether replacement would make more
economic sense.

I'm still concerned by the flame colour though. It would be a very
good idea to get the flue gas composition checked for carbon monoxide.
Realistically, that is a professional job since flue gas analysers
cost around £200+

The main causes for the OPs problems would be.
1) Lack of primary flow leading to over heating and shutdown.
2) A poor connection on the overheat stat that is set off by a slight rise
in temp.
3) A duff overheat stat.

N.B.
If the flames are yellow like a candle stop using this appliance, even
though it is a room sealed appliance.


I'm wondering now if we are dealing with a semi blocked heat exchanger which
is allowing some of the products of combustion to clear (hence heat comes
out of the flue) but filling the casing with burnt gases which then smother
the flame and pilot. I'd (very carefully and with one hand on the switch)
try choosing a day when wind conditions don't blow back into the balanced
flue and fire up without the outer case fitted to be able to say with
confidence that products are clearing "through" the finning of the heat
exchanger. I have in the past had problems with an Ideal Elan where the fins
had become restricted and the flames "filled" the combustion chamber and
licked out under the edge of the chamber. (In this case the solder on the
wires to the overheat stat actually melted off and cut the flames/gas)

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:10:29 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:


I'm wondering now if we are dealing with a semi blocked heat exchanger which
is allowing some of the products of combustion to clear (hence heat comes
out of the flue) but filling the casing with burnt gases which then smother
the flame and pilot. I'd (very carefully and with one hand on the switch)
try choosing a day when wind conditions don't blow back into the balanced
flue and fire up without the outer case fitted to be able to say with
confidence that products are clearing "through" the finning of the heat
exchanger. I have in the past had problems with an Ideal Elan where the fins
had become restricted and the flames "filled" the combustion chamber and
licked out under the edge of the chamber. (In this case the solder on the
wires to the overheat stat actually melted off and cut the flames/gas)

One other comment here is that if the OP is planning to take off the
sheet metal components inside such as the plate in front of the
burner, to be very careful because this boiler has very shoddy
metalwork with sharp edges.

I cut myself quite badly on one occasion, and that, together with a
series of faults such as thermocouple, overheat and main thermostats
sealed this boiler's fate. I was pleased to consign it to the skip.


--

..andy