Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her
I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing,
because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

Perce

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her
I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing,
because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.


"There is no way a switched-off fluorescent can interfere with IR circuits".


Unfortunately, there are few absolutes other than death and taxes.

The tube is a reflector - it could be reflecting other IR sources onto
the detector.

A warm, but switched off tube is still a source of IR.

There are other straws, about as likely.

It is, of course, pure bs. Even if it wasn't, garages often have them,
so it should have been designed for. You could simply have argued that
- and that the unit, by their own definition, was unfit for purpose,
with an intrinisic, designed-in flaw. Unless their literature said not
to be installed in the proximity of such lighting.

In the UK, they would probably have asked if any other electrical
equipment, eg washer, drier, freezer, etc was installed or used in the
garage (which they often are) and blamed that...

--
Sue

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:40:45 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her
I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing,
because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

Okay, there's no way a switched off flourescent can interfere with
anything. Switched on of course is a whole nuther ball game,
particularly if the fixture uses an electronic ballast.

But in this brave new world where every doodad manufactured includes a
microprocessor, a switch-mode power supply and a wireless link, the
other possibilities are endless.

Someday everything will just come to a dead stop because the
electromagnetic spectrum will be nothing but hash.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her
I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing,
because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

Perce

a complete WAG........

Change the CF's to incandescent and see if the problem goes away. If it does
then change brands of CF's

Like I said WAG...

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The rep.
then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere with
infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her I
couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing, because
she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

Perce

Electrically speaking the CF bulb is inert when switched off because it has
no standby mode, it is just off.

But... stretching my imagination, can the IR light from the beam interact
with the phosphors of the bulb and reemit light that interferes? Unlikely
but seems plausable. The phoshhor should absorb UV and emit visible, I
don't know of its performance in the IR band.

Most IR beams are not ON/OFF but have pulses encoded in them so that they
are not easily fooled by passive IR sources.

Try to find the Radio Shack Infrared sensor card (276-1099). It has a patch
of phosphor on it that glows red in the presence of an IR beam. It is
useful to see where the beam goes.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The rep.
then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere with
infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her I
couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing, because
she was only reciting her official spiel.

I have no idea if it is true, but if so, the design is dumb. Many garages
have fluorescent light making the IR opener useless in their case.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:40:45 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Gave us:

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

There is no way a fluorescent lamp in any state can affect a
properly designed IR comm link.

"TokaMundo" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:40:45 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Gave us:

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

There is no way a fluorescent lamp in any state can affect a
properly designed IR comm link.

Aren't garage door openers RF in IR? What good would a line of sight device
do when your on the other side of the door?

"Yepp" wrote in message
ng.com...

"TokaMundo" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:40:45 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Gave us:

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

There is no way a fluorescent lamp in any state can affect a
properly designed IR comm link.

Aren't garage door openers RF in IR? What good would a line of sight
device do when your on the other side of the door?

Read the original post carefully. The IR is used to communicate between the
opener (mounted over the door instead of in the middle of the room) and the
light (mounted somewhere in the room).

Charles Perry P.E.

"Charles Perry" wrote in message
...

"Yepp" wrote in message
ng.com...

"TokaMundo" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:40:45 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Gave us:

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

There is no way a fluorescent lamp in any state can affect a
properly designed IR comm link.

Aren't garage door openers RF in IR? What good would a line of sight
device do when your on the other side of the door?

Read the original post carefully. The IR is used to communicate between
the opener (mounted over the door instead of in the middle of the room)
and the light (mounted somewhere in the room).

Charles Perry P.E.



Sorrry there wasn't much of the OP when I replied!

On 08/23/05 02:40 pm I wrote:

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. . . .

snip

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

I bought the opener in question at Menards because they had a "10% off
Everything" sale. It has a Date of Manufacture code of 0903 (presumably
Sept. 03). Lowes has what seems to be a later revision with better
instructions and a different wall-mounting control having at least one
additional feature, a "vacation lock."

Lowes (and perhaps HD as well) turn their stock over more frequently and
may have more up-to-date products, it would appear. And Menards is a
sizeable chain; what are your chances of getting the new and improved
versions at "Joe's Hardware?"

Perce

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:30:24 -0500, "Yepp" Gave
us:


"TokaMundo" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:40:45 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Gave us:

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

There is no way a fluorescent lamp in any state can affect a
properly designed IR comm link.

Aren't garage door openers RF in IR? What good would a line of sight device
do when your on the other side of the door?

The opener remote device used from outside the door within a car is
a radio device. The safety eye devices that are placed at the lower
half of the door closure are optical make/break devices.

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her
I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing,
because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

Perce

For my senior project I designed a car that could drive around
obstacles. It had infrared sensors. It also had a electronic compass
mounted to its roof for directional help. It worked beautifully. That
is until I presented it in class where they had flourescent lighting...

The thing banged around aimlessly, lol. And the motors were scrambling
the compass which I didnt notice since the sensors were working. It was
all good in theory, but in practice was another thing.

Any idiot, self included, should test their design at the intended
target location. I had no experience so it was excuseable. That garage
door opener using IR is inexcuseable. I guess thats why it was in the
grab bin.

P.S. My car worked better with the classroom lights off.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door() into
the sheepfold{}, but climbeth up some other *way, the same is a thief
and a robber."

GnuPG Key Fingerprint:
82A6 8893 C2A1 F64E A9AD 19AE 55B2 4CD7 80D2 0A2D

For a free Java interface to Freechess.org see
http://www.rigidsoftware.com/Chess/chess.html

On 08/24/05 09:45 am CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert tossed the following
ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

For my senior project I designed a car that could drive around
obstacles. It had infrared sensors. It also had a electronic compass
mounted to its roof for directional help. It worked beautifully. That
is until I presented it in class where they had flourescent lighting...

The thing banged around aimlessly, lol. And the motors were scrambling
the compass which I didnt notice since the sensors were working. It was
all good in theory, but in practice was another thing.

Any idiot, self included, should test their design at the intended
target location. I had no experience so it was excuseable. That garage
door opener using IR is inexcuseable. I guess thats why it was in the
grab bin.

No, it wasn't in the grab bin: it was on the shelf with all the others
at full price (less the "10% off everything -- the same as our
employees" discount). The later-revision ones at Lowes still have IR
control for the light; perhaps it's an improved version -- and they're
supposed to be sending me a new light unit and motor-control board.

Anyway the problem with the original one is more a range thing: the only
reliable switching occurs with the light unit (plugged into an extension
cord for testing purposes, as an earlier customer support rep. had
suggested) just 3 or 4 feet from the opener -- whether the fluorescent
lights were on or off. Beyond that distance there were positions in
which it would turn on but not off again and positions in which it would
turn off but not on again.

Even if the thing is susceptible to interference from fluoro. lights
that are switched on, if one is opening the garage door when arriving
home, the fluoro. lights probably aren't going to be on to interfere
with the IR control, so the garage-door light should still go on -- but
if one then switches on the fluoro. lights before the garage-door light
goes off there could be interference.

When one is leaving the house and closing the garge door, one is
presumably not leaving the garage lights on to interfere with the IR
switching.

Note that I am assuming that the claim that even switched-off fluoro.
lights can intefere with IR switching is a bunch of baloney.

Perce

When my wife drives out of the garage I'm presumably working on a wood
project so the fluoro lights are on.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:37:27 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

When one is leaving the house and closing the garge door, one is
presumably not leaving the garage lights on to interfere with the IR
switching.

I certainly don't have a clue why they would interfere, but then again
I don't see why they would make that reason up. Now if they said that
was the problem & there was nothing they could do about it, that would
be a different story. However, since they are sending you a new board &
a new light that would say to me that yes there was a problem & they
did something to remedy it.

For the record I have no affiliation or dealings w/ Wayne Dalton, but
they are a large company in this industry & when there are a large
number of units in use, the manufacturers are usually pretty good in
determining what causes a problem as crazy as the problem may sound.

That's my 2-1/2 cent opinion anyways.
Doordoc

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her
I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing,
because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

Perce

Perce,
I'm not sure I understand this phrase:

" operates its associated light fitting via an IR beam:"

I may be wandering down a byeway but are you saying that
- when you open the door, a light should turn on automatically?
- the 'switch' for this came with the door opening kit?
- the switch is controlled by infra-red from the main unit?
- That the light is a flourescent?

So the question might be whether the flourescent light is a suitable
load for this electronic switch, and not whether it interferes with an
IR beam?

Phil

may be yes but not due to switch off fluorescent. I wonder that may be
interfere due to dipping supply caused by machanical switch and motor
control itself.

try to rasionalize your situation.

tks

magic

On 08/25/05 12:23 pm P.R.Brady tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated

light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the

door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then
would sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by
killing the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would
sometimes switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told
her I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in
arguing, because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

I'm not sure I understand this phrase:

" operates its associated light fitting via an IR beam:"

I may be wandering down a byeway but are you saying that
- when you open the door, a light should turn on automatically?
- the 'switch' for this came with the door opening kit?
- the switch is controlled by infra-red from the main unit?
- That the light is a flourescent?

So the question might be whether the flourescent light is a suitable
load for this electronic switch, and not whether it interferes with an
IR beam?

When the door is operated, the light should come on, remain on for 5
min., then switch off again. The wall-mounted *wireless* control that
came with the whole set also has a separate button that is supposed to
operate the light, toggling it on and off -- but, again, the light is
controlled via the IR link from the opener proper: Wireless switch sends
RF signal to opener, which in turn sends IR signal to light fitting. So
the light fitting needs only a convenient outlet -- no control wires.
BTW, the IR sensor on the light fitting can be aimed fairly readily at
the opener proper.

I have used only a regular incandescent bulb in the opener-associated
light fitting: it will normally be on for only a few minutes at a time,
so the expense of a CF bulb would take years to recover. The fluorescent
lights in question are the CF ones in the original ceiling light sockets
-- but whether they are on or off makes no difference.

Perce

According to Percival P. Cassidy :

I have used only a regular incandescent bulb in the opener-associated
light fitting: it will normally be on for only a few minutes at a time,
so the expense of a CF bulb would take years to recover. The fluorescent
lights in question are the CF ones in the original ceiling light sockets
-- but whether they are on or off makes no difference.

Let me get this right:

You have CF lamps, unconnected with the garage door unit, that appear
to cause problems with the garage door unit, and the problem will "initiate"
EVEN IF the CFs are off?

I suppose it's very marginally possible that their assessment is correct,
but it shouldn't be that sensitive.

A couple things you could try to rule in/rule out: try putting an optical
barrier between the CFs and the GDO, or block off the IR sensor so that
it only can "see" the directions where the actuators are. Check to make
sure that the CF switching actually switches off the hot, not the neutral.
Pull the CFs from their sockets and see if the problem persists.

If it were a classic tube fluorescent, the first thing I'd do is make
sure the fixture case was solidly grounded and that it was only the hot
being switched.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Percival P. Cassidy" writes:
Note that I am assuming that the claim that even switched-off fluoro.
lights can intefere with IR switching is a bunch of baloney.

Probably in your case, but not always. I live in a block of apartments.
The building's stairwell and garage area lights are on a timeswitch--an
old fashioned mechanical relay arrangement that goes THUMP when it
switches on.

One cloudy afternoon as I felt my way down the stairwell in the half
gloom rather than switching on a dozen lights just to go a few flights,
out of the corner of my eye I imagined I caught a brief flash of light
from a CF fitting I was passing under. Intrigued, I waited, and waited,
and discovered to my amazement that every 4 or 5 minutes this globe would
give a momentary low-intensity (to my eye) flash of light! It was just an
ordinary CF globe that I'd installed.

I have not been able to come up with a satisfactory explanation for this.
In case there was a leakage current, I made sure after that to always have
at least one globe an ordinary incandescent.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

The fluorescent
lights in question are the CF ones in the original ceiling light sockets
-- but whether they are on or off makes no difference.

You could always unscrew the CF bulbs from the sockets and remove
them from the garage. If you still have the same problem (I
STRONGLY suspect you will) you will know for sure that their
explanation was BS.
--
I just heard a TV commercial about an automobile that has a rear
entertainment system. I immediately wondered exactly how would an
automobile entertain one's rear and would it be safe to drive while
one's rear was being entertained.

On 08/23/05 02:40 pm I wrote:

Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her
I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing,
because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

And I just noticed that the Revision Date on the manual is 10/06/04,
whereas the DOM code on the unit is 0903. How on earth did W-D have this
thing sitting around for a year before they boxed it up to ship out?

I've still heard nothing from W-D about my replacement parts, but I've
emailed them and told them I hope to get a prompt response.

Perce

In article , John Savage
wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" writes:
Note that I am assuming that the claim that even switched-off fluoro.
lights can intefere with IR switching is a bunch of baloney.

Probably in your case, but not always. I live in a block of apartments.
The building's stairwell and garage area lights are on a timeswitch--an
old fashioned mechanical relay arrangement that goes THUMP when it
switches on.

One cloudy afternoon as I felt my way down the stairwell in the half
gloom rather than switching on a dozen lights just to go a few flights,
out of the corner of my eye I imagined I caught a brief flash of light
from a CF fitting I was passing under. Intrigued, I waited, and waited,
and discovered to my amazement that every 4 or 5 minutes this globe would
give a momentary low-intensity (to my eye) flash of light! It was just an
ordinary CF globe that I'd installed.

I have not been able to come up with a satisfactory explanation for this.
In case there was a leakage current, I made sure after that to always have
at least one globe an ordinary incandescent.

I have found some CFs to flash from leakage current. Ones with glow
switch starters (and magnetic ballasts) may have the starters very dimly
glow or flicker a purplish color.

I saw this mainly when I tried switching a CF with the Radio Shack
"Plug-N-Power" switching system. The receivers intentionally leak some
current to detect whether a load is in place. I suspect CFs could even
have extra wear from dimly glowing or flashing when "off" with the
"Plug-N-Power" system, since their filaments will not be at the proper
operating temperature. Starters may not like to be glowing all the time.

However, I do not expect the much lower leakage currents found elsewhere
to cause much wear to fluorescents.

- Don Klipstein )

On 08/26/05 08:52 pm I wrote:

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above
the door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient
outlet within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then
would sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by
killing the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would
sometimes switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told
her I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in
arguing, because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

And I just noticed that the Revision Date on the manual is 10/06/04,
whereas the DOM code on the unit is 0903. How on earth did W-D have this
thing sitting around for a year before they boxed it up to ship out?

I've still heard nothing from W-D about my replacement parts, but I've
emailed them and told them I hope to get a prompt response.

The replacement light unit and motor control board arrived today, but I
haven't had a chance to install the board yet. It looks as though
they've changed from IR control to RF control for the light: a loop on
the circuit board where the IR diode was on the old one.

Still no replacement wall control; the newer ones have a "vacation lock"
function, which I think could be very useful.

Perce

TokaMundo wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:40:45 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Gave us:

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

There is no way a fluorescent lamp in any state can affect a
properly designed IR comm link.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think this might be the key.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities.
-- Walt Kelly, "Pogo"

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then would
sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by killing
the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would sometimes
switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told her
I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in arguing,
because she was only reciting her official spiel.

Do you have a CFL installed in the garage door light fitting?

Its very possible that the (electronic) ballast presents a load that the
lamp control circuit (probably a solid state control like a Triac) can't
handle.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

Its not very likely that the interference is with the IR link but with
the lamp control.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Where am I going, and what am I doing in this handbasket?

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

On 08/25/05 12:23 pm P.R.Brady tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated

light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the

door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then
would sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by
killing the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would
sometimes switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told
her I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in
arguing, because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

I'm not sure I understand this phrase:

" operates its associated light fitting via an IR beam:"

I may be wandering down a byeway but are you saying that
- when you open the door, a light should turn on automatically?
- the 'switch' for this came with the door opening kit?
- the switch is controlled by infra-red from the main unit?
- That the light is a flourescent?

So the question might be whether the flourescent light is a suitable
load for this electronic switch, and not whether it interferes with an
IR beam?

When the door is operated, the light should come on, remain on for 5
min., then switch off again. The wall-mounted *wireless* control that
came with the whole set also has a separate button that is supposed to
operate the light, toggling it on and off -- but, again, the light is
controlled via the IR link from the opener proper: Wireless switch sends
RF signal to opener, which in turn sends IR signal to light fitting. So
the light fitting needs only a convenient outlet -- no control wires.
BTW, the IR sensor on the light fitting can be aimed fairly readily at
the opener proper.

I have used only a regular incandescent bulb in the opener-associated
light fitting: it will normally be on for only a few minutes at a time,
so the expense of a CF bulb would take years to recover. The fluorescent
lights in question are the CF ones in the original ceiling light sockets
-- but whether they are on or off makes no difference.

Does the system operate correctly if you remove the CFLs completely?

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Do not mold, findle or sputilate.

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

On 08/25/05 12:23 pm P.R.Brady tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Here's one for the electrical/electronics gurus.

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated

light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above
the

door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then
would sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by
killing the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would
sometimes switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told
her I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in
arguing, because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

I'm not sure I understand this phrase:

" operates its associated light fitting via an IR beam:"

I may be wandering down a byeway but are you saying that
- when you open the door, a light should turn on automatically?
- the 'switch' for this came with the door opening kit?
- the switch is controlled by infra-red from the main unit?
- That the light is a flourescent?

So the question might be whether the flourescent light is a suitable
load for this electronic switch, and not whether it interferes with an
IR beam?

When the door is operated, the light should come on, remain on for 5
min., then switch off again. The wall-mounted *wireless* control that
came with the whole set also has a separate button that is supposed to
operate the light, toggling it on and off -- but, again, the light is
controlled via the IR link from the opener proper: Wireless switch sends
RF signal to opener, which in turn sends IR signal to light fitting. So
the light fitting needs only a convenient outlet -- no control wires.
BTW, the IR sensor on the light fitting can be aimed fairly readily at
the opener proper.

I have used only a regular incandescent bulb in the opener-associated
light fitting: it will normally be on for only a few minutes at a time,
so the expense of a CF bulb would take years to recover. The fluorescent
lights in question are the CF ones in the original ceiling light sockets
-- but whether they are on or off makes no difference.

Does the system operate correctly if you remove the CFLs completely?

There is certainly no way a fluorescent lamp which is switched off can
interfere with any type of control.

However, operating fluorescent lamps can interfere with IR controls. It
doesn't seem to be a widespread problem, but I've heard about situations
where IR controls used for TV and other A/V systems don't work in rooms with
fluorescent lighting. The reason is the frequency of the IR signal. If it
is close to or a multiple of the frequency that the ballast sends to the
lamp, then the lighting signal will swamp the IR receptor.

TKM

On 09/09/05 03:11 pm Paul Hovnanian P.E. tossed the following
ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Our new Wayne-Dalton iDrive garage door opener operates its associated
light fitting via an IR beam: the opener proper installs right above the
door, while the light fitting can be mounted to any convenient outlet
within "view" of the opener.

The light operated correctly when it was first installed, but then
would sometimes switch on but not be able to be switched off except by
killing the power to that circuit -- and even then the light would
sometimes switch on and stay on as soon as power was restored.

I called Wayne-Dalton Customer Service. The rep. asked whether we had
fluorescent lights in the garage. I replied that we did but that the
problem existed even when the fluorescents (CF) were turned off. The
rep. then said, "We have found that fluorescent lights can interfere
with infra-red sensors even when the lights are turned off." I told
her I couldn't see how that could be, but there was no point in
arguing, because she was only reciting her official spiel.

They are going to send a new light unit and a new motor-control board
(mine is an older revision, it appears), but . . .

Please tell me that there's no way a switched-off fluorescent can
interfere with IR circuits.

I'm not sure I understand this phrase:

" operates its associated light fitting via an IR beam:"

I may be wandering down a byeway but are you saying that
- when you open the door, a light should turn on automatically?
- the 'switch' for this came with the door opening kit?
- the switch is controlled by infra-red from the main unit?
- That the light is a flourescent?

So the question might be whether the flourescent light is a suitable
load for this electronic switch, and not whether it interferes with an
IR beam?

When the door is operated, the light should come on, remain on for 5
min., then switch off again. The wall-mounted *wireless* control that
came with the whole set also has a separate button that is supposed to
operate the light, toggling it on and off -- but, again, the light is
controlled via the IR link from the opener proper: Wireless switch sends
RF signal to opener, which in turn sends IR signal to light fitting. So
the light fitting needs only a convenient outlet -- no control wires.
BTW, the IR sensor on the light fitting can be aimed fairly readily at
the opener proper.

I have used only a regular incandescent bulb in the opener-associated
light fitting: it will normally be on for only a few minutes at a time,
so the expense of a CF bulb would take years to recover. The fluorescent
lights in question are the CF ones in the original ceiling light sockets
-- but whether they are on or off makes no difference.

Does the system operate correctly if you remove the CFLs completely?

I didn't try that. I have now received and installed the free
replacement light unit and motor-control board, and they work fine --
but the light unit is now controlled via an RF link instead of via the
earlier version's IR link. So it's quite possible that W-D had enough
problems with fluorescents in garages (surely a rather common situation)
interfering with their IR-signalling system (when the fluoro. lights
were ON) that they felt obligated to scrap the IR in favor of RF.

Perce

On 09/09/05 05:26 pm TKM tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

There is certainly no way a fluorescent lamp which is switched off can
interfere with any type of control.

However, operating fluorescent lamps can interfere with IR controls. It
doesn't seem to be a widespread problem, but I've heard about situations
where IR controls used for TV and other A/V systems don't work in rooms with
fluorescent lighting. The reason is the frequency of the IR signal. If it
is close to or a multiple of the frequency that the ballast sends to the
lamp, then the lighting signal will swamp the IR receptor.

I have now received and installed the free replacement light unit and
motor-control board, and they work fine -- but the light unit is now
controlled via an RF link instead of via the earlier version's IR link.
So it's quite possible that W-D had enough problems with fluorescents in
garages (surely a rather common situation) interfering with their
IR-signalling system (when the fluoro. lights were ON) that they felt
obligated to scrap the IR in favor of RF.

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

[snip]

I didn't try that. I have now received and installed the free
replacement light unit and motor-control board, and they work fine --
but the light unit is now controlled via an RF link instead of via the
earlier version's IR link. So it's quite possible that W-D had enough
problems with fluorescents in garages (surely a rather common situation)
interfering with their IR-signalling system (when the fluoro. lights
were ON) that they felt obligated to scrap the IR in favor of RF.

There is one more thing you can check, if you don't mind doing a little
research just for the heck of it.

See if any of the lamp sockets into which the CFLs were installed have
their hot and neutral leads reversed. The screw threads of a lamp should
be neutral.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail returned to sender -- insufficient voltage.