Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10 feet
wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The walk's a
couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My son wants to
place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a gate. It's at his
mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking about using stockade
fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the grass)
will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on, and she hates
the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that can be opened flush
against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I haven't made any calls to
lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen wooden gates that big, probably
at farms. Maybe with a roller at the bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

On Jul 28, 6:18*am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10 feet
wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The walk's a
couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My son wants to
place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a gate. It's at his
mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking about using stockade
fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the grass)
will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on, and she hates
the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that can be opened flush
against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I haven't made any calls to
lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen wooden gates that big, probably
at farms. Maybe with a roller at the bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

A trimmer, just use roundup and junk the trimmer.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Jul 28, 6:18 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10 feet
wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The walk's a
couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My son wants to
place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a gate. It's at his
mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking about using stockade
fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the grass)
will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on, and she hates
the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that can be opened flush
against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I haven't made any calls to
lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen wooden gates that big,
probably
at farms. Maybe with a roller at the bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

A trimmer, just use roundup and junk the trimmer.

===================

Roundup is not an option. This is about mechanical possibilities.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10
feet wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The
walk's a couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My
son wants to place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a
gate. It's at his mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking
about using stockade fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the
grass) will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on,
and she hates the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that
can be opened flush against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I
haven't made any calls to lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen
wooden gates that big, probably at farms. Maybe with a roller at the
bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

You can do that, but you can't build it out of fence panels alone. You
could start with two fence panels, but you'll have to add all sorts of
bracing.

A ten-foot gate won't support itself. It will have to have a wheel on
the end.

Options:
* Two five-foot sections that open from the middle. These are small
enough to support themselves.
* Put paving stones under the bottom of the fence so you don't have to
use the trimmer.
* Use persistent plant killer at the bottom. This keeps *anything*
from growing where you spray it for one year. This is what I do to keep
my grass out of the neighbor's flower bed.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10
feet wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The
walk's a couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My
son wants to place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a
gate. It's at his mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking
about using stockade fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the
grass) will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on,
and she hates the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that
can be opened flush against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I
haven't made any calls to lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen
wooden gates that big, probably at farms. Maybe with a roller at the
bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

You can do that, but you can't build it out of fence panels alone. You
could start with two fence panels, but you'll have to add all sorts of
bracing.

A ten-foot gate won't support itself. It will have to have a wheel on
the end.

Options:
* Two five-foot sections that open from the middle. These are small
enough to support themselves.
* Put paving stones under the bottom of the fence so you don't have to
use the trimmer.
* Use persistent plant killer at the bottom. This keeps *anything*
from growing where you spray it for one year. This is what I do to keep
my grass out of the neighbor's flower bed.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX

Paving stones - there's an interesting idea. Maybe use some that are wide
enough so the mower can be rolled on top and the blades can reach the edge
where the stones meet the grass.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence.
10 feet wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the
house. The walk's a couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley
is grass. My son wants to place a wooden fence across this alley,
but include a gate. It's at his mom's house, so I'm just the
advisor. He's talking about using stockade fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the
grass) will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer
on, and she hates the machine. Why not create one big swinging
gate that can be opened flush against the neighbor's fence during
mowing? I haven't made any calls to lumber yards yet, but could
swear I've seen wooden gates that big, probably at farms. Maybe
with a roller at the bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

You can do that, but you can't build it out of fence panels alone.
You could start with two fence panels, but you'll have to add all
sorts of bracing.

A ten-foot gate won't support itself. It will have to have a wheel
on the end.

Options:
* Two five-foot sections that open from the middle. These are small
enough to support themselves.
* Put paving stones under the bottom of the fence so you don't have
to use the trimmer.
* Use persistent plant killer at the bottom. This keeps anything
from growing where you spray it for one year. This is what I do to
keep my grass out of the neighbor's flower bed.

-- Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX

Paving stones - there's an interesting idea. Maybe use some that are
wide enough so the mower can be rolled on top and the blades can
reach the edge where the stones meet the grass.

That's exactly what my dad did several years ago. He buried 2" concrete
blocks level with the soil around the whole yard. He now uses an edger
instead of a trimmer, except where he decided to stack stuff on the
blocks. :-(

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX

On Jul 28, 8:21�am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message

...





JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10
feet wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The
walk's a couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My
son wants to place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a
gate. It's at his mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking
about using stockade fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the
grass) will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on,
and she hates the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that
can be opened flush against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I
haven't made any calls to lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen
wooden gates that big, probably at farms. Maybe with a roller at the
bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

You can do that, but you can't build it out of fence panels alone. You
could start with two fence panels, but you'll have to add all sorts of
bracing.

A ten-foot gate won't support itself. It will have to have a wheel on
the end.

Options:
* Two five-foot sections that open from the middle. These are small
enough to support themselves.
* Put paving stones under the bottom of the fence so you don't have to
use the trimmer.
* Use persistent plant killer at the bottom. This keeps *anything*
from growing where you spray it for one year. This is what I do to keep
my grass out of the neighbor's flower bed.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX

Paving stones - there's an interesting idea. Maybe use some that are wide
enough so the mower can be rolled on top and the blades can reach the edge
where the stones meet the grass.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

a wood gate is going to be heavy. might be a issue for your mom.

chain link wouldnt look as nice but will; be lighter and easier to
move.

if your area gets snow the rolling wheel and such may get frozen in
place.

On Jul 28, 7:18*am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10 feet
wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The walk's a
couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My son wants to
place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a gate. It's at his
mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking about using stockade
fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the grass)
will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on, and she hates
the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that can be opened flush
against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I haven't made any calls to
lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen wooden gates that big, probably
at farms. Maybe with a roller at the bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

The roller is going to be a problem unless the entire area is level or
you get one of those fancy spring loaded roller$. I'd go with split
the dif or pavers under the fence portion. Keep in mind the hinge
side of the gate has to be very strong, my bet is the existing fence
post is not deep enough to support a 5' gate.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10 feet
wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The walk's a
couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My son wants to
place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a gate. It's at his
mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking about using stockade
fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the grass)
will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on, and she hates
the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that can be opened flush
against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I haven't made any calls to
lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen wooden gates that big,
probably at farms. Maybe with a roller at the bottom to support the
weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

Out here in farm country, the gates are 10-12' feet but they are metal
frames, not for privacy, just to keep the animals in. They are usually
mounted to a 6 x 6, or 8 x 8 set deep enough in the ground to counter the
weight of the gate. Some also have a steel guide-wire attached to the top
of the gate for added support. Readily available at a store such as Fleet &
Farm.

Joe J.

OH, roundup is always an option. It's just a matter of deciding if you WANT
to do it the easy way or make it hard. And yes, you can build a gate even
if you can't buy one like you want. The biggest deal would be if the
sidwalk is higher than the surrounding ground, it may be tricky to have a
wheel on the end.

s


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
.. .

Roundup is not an option. This is about mechanical possibilities.

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
....
... And yes, you can build a gate even
if you can't buy one like you want. The biggest deal would be if the
sidwalk is higher than the surrounding ground, it may be tricky to have a
wheel on the end.
....

You can build wooden gates that are as much as 16' w/o needing any
wheels...have whole passel of 'em. Do need a good support, however, but
a 10-footer wouldn't be much hassle at all if done correctly.

And, if decide want the wheel, the spring-loaded, large diameter guys
(you can buy the mechanisms ready-made) will handle it trivially.

But, it's going to be more effort than OP is thinking--the two 5-footers
would be a simpler solution if he can get away w/ opening the one
against the other property as opposed to his own.

--

"Steve Barker DLT" wrote in message
...
OH, roundup is always an option. It's just a matter of deciding if you
WANT to do it the easy way or make it hard.

Three feet from a garden full of edibles, chemicals are only an option if
you're an idiot.

"Limp Arbor" wrote in message
...
On Jul 28, 7:18 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10 feet
wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The walk's a
couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My son wants to
place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a gate. It's at his
mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking about using stockade
fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the grass)
will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on, and she hates
the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that can be opened flush
against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I haven't made any calls to
lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen wooden gates that big,
probably
at farms. Maybe with a roller at the bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

The roller is going to be a problem unless the entire area is level or
you get one of those fancy spring loaded roller$. I'd go with split
the dif or pavers under the fence portion. Keep in mind the hinge
side of the gate has to be very strong, my bet is the existing fence
post is not deep enough to support a 5' gate.

==================

My son's planning on installing 4x4 posts with cement. Maybe the thicker
posts if we go with the single wide gate idea.

On 2008-07-28, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

My son's planning on installing 4x4 posts with cement. Maybe the
thicker posts if we go with the single wide gate idea.

My understanding is that you definitely want 6x6 posts if they are
freestanding and supporting any kind of gate.

Yours, Wayne

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:06:22 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Steve Barker DLT" wrote in message
...
OH, roundup is always an option. It's just a matter of deciding if you
WANT to do it the easy way or make it hard.

Three feet from a garden full of edibles, chemicals are only an option if
you're an idiot.


...Or know how to read labels and follow simple instructions.


Yeah. OK.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

Three feet from a garden full of edibles, chemicals are only an option if
you're an idiot.

...Or know how to read labels and follow simple instructions.

Yeah. OK.

;-) I wouldnt either. Runoff. I would try vinegar though if inclined to
have a setup like that.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:47:34 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

Three feet from a garden full of edibles, chemicals are only an option
if
you're an idiot.

...Or know how to read labels and follow simple instructions.

Yeah. OK.

;-) I wouldnt either. Runoff. I would try vinegar though if inclined to
have a setup like that.


I guess you went to the same school as Spare brains Kanter. Roundup,
when applied properly presents no problem near or IN vegetable
gardens. You wouldn't want to apply it directly to your salad as a
dressing at the dinner table, but almost all vegetables you buy in a
store were grown in fields where Roundup has been used. It breaks down
into harmless components very quickly after application.



Good. You use it. Enjoy. Regardless of your age, you're too young to
understand why any and all claims of yard chemical safety are lacking in
accuracy.

In article , dpb wrote:

You can build wooden gates that are as much as 16' w/o needing any
wheels

S.O. has a gate like the OP's plan, but not well-engineered. Might
rebuild it for her one of these days. What's your recipe?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10
feet wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The
walk's a couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My
son wants to place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a
gate. It's at his mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking
about using stockade fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the
grass) will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on,
and she hates the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that
can be opened flush against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I
haven't made any calls to lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen
wooden gates that big, probably at farms. Maybe with a roller at the
bottom to support the weight?
Or, am I imagining this?

What's the purpose of this gate? Prevent access? Privacy? Both?

If the purpose is only to limit vehicular access, a simple chain with a
reflective sign would be sufficient.

Going up from there, a three or four pipe system, like used for livestock
barriers, is next.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10
feet wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The
walk's a couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My
son wants to place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a
gate. It's at his mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking
about using stockade fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the
grass) will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on,
and she hates the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that
can be opened flush against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I
haven't made any calls to lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen
wooden gates that big, probably at farms. Maybe with a roller at the
bottom to support the weight?
Or, am I imagining this?

What's the purpose of this gate? Prevent access? Privacy? Both?

If the purpose is only to limit vehicular access, a simple chain with a
reflective sign would be sufficient.

Going up from there, a three or four pipe system, like used for livestock
barriers, is next.


To keep people with bad upbringing from waiting around the corner in the
alley at night. Son and I have suggested a pistol permit for his mother, but
she hasn't evolved far enough yet.

Yes, the gate will be padlocked.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:

You can build wooden gates that are as much as 16' w/o needing any
wheels

S.O. has a gate like the OP's plan, but not well-engineered. Might
rebuild it for her one of these days. What's your recipe?

Start by laying it out a little proud on the far end--for a 16-footer I
make it about 2". It'll start out a little high, but will settle in and
then be pretty stable for a good long time.

For layout, I go something like

|\ |\ |
| \ | \ |
| \ | \ |
| \ | \ |
| \| \|

where the horizontal axis is greatly compressed, of course, rather than
simply a single full-length crosspiece. The crosspieces have to be
fitted well and use dry lumber for the verticals in particular so they
don't shrink when dry and open up a gap. (Since I have a supply of
salvage lumber that dates back 80 year or so, that's pretty easy here
--not so much from new stock, unfortunately, though, probably. )

I've these style gates in the feedlots that have been in place 40 years
and still don't sag more than an inch or two after all those years w/ no
maintenance at all. I did have to finally rebuild some of them that had
completely failed starting this year, but those who haven't are still
working well. (I also have to say it's not my doing but was Dad's,
originally, btw...).

HTH...

OBTW, they're hung on two homemade hinges at top and bottom -- they're
1/4x1-1/4 plate in L w/ a 3/4" pin and washer welded in the corner bend
for the pins and the hinges are same plate heated and rolled around a
piece of pin bar stock. There's a double thickness there for one bolt
and single on out. They're about 18" overall.

The corner posts are rr ties, hinge pins mounted w/ 3/8" lags--2 on
side/one in front.

--

--

On 7/28/2008 4:18 AM JoeSpareBedroom spake thus:

Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10 feet
wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The walk's a
couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My son wants to
place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a gate. It's at his
mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking about using stockade
fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the grass)
will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on, and she hates
the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that can be opened flush
against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I haven't made any calls to
lumber yards yet, but could swear I've seen wooden gates that big, probably
at farms. Maybe with a roller at the bottom to support the weight?

Or, am I imagining this?

Yes, you're imagining this ...

I recently built two large-ish gates (5' wide and pretty heavy) with
casters on the swinging side. Eliminates sagging problems. You need to
have a smooth, level path for the wheels. And I'd use larger casters (or
even one of those semi-pneumatic wheels) next time. But it works fine.


--
"Wikipedia ... it reminds me ... of dogs barking idiotically through
endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it.
It drags itself out of the dark abyss of pish, and crawls insanely up
the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and
doodle. It is balder and dash."

- With apologies to H. L. Mencken

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10
feet wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The
walk's a couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My
son wants to place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a
gate. It's at his mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking
about using stockade fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the
grass) will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on,
and she hates the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that
can be opened flush against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I
haven't made any calls to lumber yards yet, but could swear I've
seen wooden gates that big, probably at farms. Maybe with a roller
at the bottom to support the weight?
Or, am I imagining this?

What's the purpose of this gate? Prevent access? Privacy? Both?

If the purpose is only to limit vehicular access, a simple chain
with a reflective sign would be sufficient.

Going up from there, a three or four pipe system, like used for
livestock barriers, is next.


To keep people with bad upbringing from waiting around the corner in
the alley at night. Son and I have suggested a pistol permit for his
mother, but she hasn't evolved far enough yet.

Yes, the gate will be padlocked.

Ah, okay. A "deterrence" gate.

First, I don't think she needs a pistol permit (depending on the
jurisdiction) if she's on her own property (or very close thereto). A
16-gauge shotgun is also an excellent choice. Be sure to tell her: "When
seconds count, the police are only minutes away!"

Second: For a deterrence gate, you'll also need a "Really Bad Dog" sign. The
sign, coupled with an infa-red or acoustic trigger for the most inspiring
growl you can find (taping the lion at the zoo comes to mind) is also
appropriate.

Third, don't neglect the concertina wire.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Picture this: An alley between a house and the neighbor's fence. 10
feet wide with a concrete sidewalk which comes around the house. The
walk's a couple of feet wide and the rest of the alley is grass. My
son wants to place a wooden fence across this alley, but include a
gate. It's at his mom's house, so I'm just the advisor. He's talking
about using stockade fence sections.

My take on this is that the stationary part of the fence (over the
grass) will be one more thing his mother has to use the trimmer on,
and she hates the machine. Why not create one big swinging gate that
can be opened flush against the neighbor's fence during mowing? I
haven't made any calls to lumber yards yet, but could swear I've
seen wooden gates that big, probably at farms. Maybe with a roller
at the bottom to support the weight?
Or, am I imagining this?

What's the purpose of this gate? Prevent access? Privacy? Both?

If the purpose is only to limit vehicular access, a simple chain
with a reflective sign would be sufficient.

Going up from there, a three or four pipe system, like used for
livestock barriers, is next.


To keep people with bad upbringing from waiting around the corner in
the alley at night. Son and I have suggested a pistol permit for his
mother, but she hasn't evolved far enough yet.

Yes, the gate will be padlocked.

Ah, okay. A "deterrence" gate.

First, I don't think she needs a pistol permit (depending on the
jurisdiction) if she's on her own property (or very close thereto). A
16-gauge shotgun is also an excellent choice. Be sure to tell her: "When
seconds count, the police are only minutes away!"

Second: For a deterrence gate, you'll also need a "Really Bad Dog" sign.
The sign, coupled with an infa-red or acoustic trigger for the most
inspiring growl you can find (taping the lion at the zoo comes to mind) is
also appropriate.

Third, don't neglect the concertina wire.


A shotgun's great if you're already in the house. But, nobody comes home
from the grocery store hauling a shotgun.

wrote

;-) I wouldnt either. Runoff. I would try vinegar though if inclined to
have a setup like that.

I guess you went to the same school as Spare brains Kanter. Roundup,
when applied properly presents no problem near or IN vegetable
gardens. You wouldn't want to apply it directly to your salad as a
dressing at the dinner table, but almost all vegetables you buy in a
store were grown in fields where Roundup has been used. It breaks down
into harmless components very quickly after application.

Some of us organic garden for fun. No reason to call us bad names because
of it.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

;-) I wouldnt either. Runoff. I would try vinegar though if inclined
to
have a setup like that.

I guess you went to the same school as Spare brains Kanter. Roundup,

Good. You use it. Enjoy. Regardless of your age, you're too young to
understand why any and all claims of yard chemical safety are lacking in
accuracy.

We all use more pesticides than are needed in various ways. I chose to
limit mine as the yard runoff leads to the lines that dump straight to the
rivers. I find vinegar works for my needs. Might kill a food plant or so,
but no harm eating the produce of it at all even if soaked in it.

I dont know if he above is 'too young' or just prefers to not believe that
chemicals leach all over with the ground water.

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

;-) I wouldnt either. Runoff. I would try vinegar though if inclined
to
have a setup like that.

I guess you went to the same school as Spare brains Kanter. Roundup,

Good. You use it. Enjoy. Regardless of your age, you're too young to
understand why any and all claims of yard chemical safety are lacking in
accuracy.

We all use more pesticides than are needed in various ways. I chose to
limit mine as the yard runoff leads to the lines that dump straight to the
rivers. I find vinegar works for my needs. Might kill a food plant or
so, but no harm eating the produce of it at all even if soaked in it.

I dont know if he above is 'too young' or just prefers to not believe that
chemicals leach all over with the ground water.


In some places, they DO leach into groundwater, or they end up in waste
treatment plants which are not designed to remove them. I prefer to assume
the worst. He prefers to see the rosy picture. Which way is a bigger gamble?

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:22:18 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"

wrote:

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

;-) I wouldnt either. Runoff. I would try vinegar though if
inclined
to
have a setup like that.

I guess you went to the same school as Spare brains Kanter. Roundup,

Good. You use it. Enjoy. Regardless of your age, you're too young to
understand why any and all claims of yard chemical safety are lacking
in
accuracy.

We all use more pesticides than are needed in various ways. I chose to
limit mine as the yard runoff leads to the lines that dump straight to
the
rivers. I find vinegar works for my needs. Might kill a food plant or
so, but no harm eating the produce of it at all even if soaked in it.

I dont know if he above is 'too young' or just prefers to not believe
that
chemicals leach all over with the ground water.


In some places, they DO leach into groundwater, or they end up in waste
treatment plants which are not designed to remove them. I prefer to assume
the worst. He prefers to see the rosy picture. Which way is a bigger
gamble?


The only one imagining things is the one who doesn't know enough about how
roundup works. It gets absorbed into the leaves of the plants that it
kills and
otherwise breaks down into harmless components very rapidly. Ther's
nothing to
"remove"


And yet, there are still concerns about the stuff, from sources which
neither you nor I are qualified to question.

You will now ask for a cite.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

We all use more pesticides than are needed in various ways. I chose to
limit mine as the yard runoff leads to the lines that dump straight to
the rivers. I find vinegar works for my needs. Might kill a food plant
or so, but no harm eating the produce of it at all even if soaked in it.

I dont know if he above is 'too young' or just prefers to not believe
that chemicals leach all over with the ground water.

In some places, they DO leach into groundwater, or they end up in waste
treatment plants which are not designed to remove them. I prefer to assume
the worst. He prefers to see the rosy picture. Which way is a bigger
gamble?

Dunno, but they remind us here pretty often that the rainwater runoff goes
right into the rivers here. How safe it is to eat the fish, depends on how
much you trust your neighbors habits.

I recon at the most, I am doing no harm with my vinegar habits.

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

We all use more pesticides than are needed in various ways. I chose to
limit mine as the yard runoff leads to the lines that dump straight to
the rivers. I find vinegar works for my needs. Might kill a food plant
or so, but no harm eating the produce of it at all even if soaked in it.

I dont know if he above is 'too young' or just prefers to not believe
that chemicals leach all over with the ground water.

In some places, they DO leach into groundwater, or they end up in waste
treatment plants which are not designed to remove them. I prefer to
assume the worst. He prefers to see the rosy picture. Which way is a
bigger gamble?

Dunno, but they remind us here pretty often that the rainwater runoff goes
right into the rivers here. How safe it is to eat the fish, depends on
how much you trust your neighbors habits.


How safe it is to eat the fish is easily determined by checking your state's
fishing regulation web site, which will probably contain warnings about
certain fish, and will name the contaminants involved.

Salty will now say the contaminants came from outer space, and that dioxin
is a naturally occurring vitamin.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:41:14 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"

wrote:

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

We all use more pesticides than are needed in various ways. I chose
to
limit mine as the yard runoff leads to the lines that dump straight to
the rivers. I find vinegar works for my needs. Might kill a food
plant
or so, but no harm eating the produce of it at all even if soaked in
it.

I dont know if he above is 'too young' or just prefers to not believe
that chemicals leach all over with the ground water.

In some places, they DO leach into groundwater, or they end up in waste
treatment plants which are not designed to remove them. I prefer to
assume the worst. He prefers to see the rosy picture. Which way is a
bigger gamble?

Dunno, but they remind us here pretty often that the rainwater runoff
goes
right into the rivers here. How safe it is to eat the fish, depends on
how much you trust your neighbors habits.


How safe it is to eat the fish is easily determined by checking your
state's
fishing regulation web site, which will probably contain warnings about
certain fish, and will name the contaminants involved.

Salty will now say the contaminants came from outer space, and that dioxin
is a naturally occurring vitamin.


You certainly know how to reinforce the notion held by many that you are
an
idiot, Kanter.



You're not exactly a fountain of wisdom at the moment.

You obviously don't understand how roundup works, and how basically non
toxic it is. Hell i use it between the rows of my garden.

s


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Steve Barker DLT" wrote in message
...
OH, roundup is always an option. It's just a matter of deciding if you
WANT to do it the easy way or make it hard.

Three feet from a garden full of edibles, chemicals are only an option if
you're an idiot.

the sky is falling, the sky is falling. jeeeeze... another fukin
treehugger.

s


"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

;-) I wouldnt either. Runoff. I would try vinegar though if inclined
to
have a setup like that.

I guess you went to the same school as Spare brains Kanter. Roundup,

Good. You use it. Enjoy. Regardless of your age, you're too young to
understand why any and all claims of yard chemical safety are lacking in
accuracy.

We all use more pesticides than are needed in various ways. I chose to
limit mine as the yard runoff leads to the lines that dump straight to the
rivers. I find vinegar works for my needs. Might kill a food plant or
so, but no harm eating the produce of it at all even if soaked in it.

I dont know if he above is 'too young' or just prefers to not believe that
chemicals leach all over with the ground water.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Ah, okay. A "deterrence" gate.

First, I don't think she needs a pistol permit (depending on the
jurisdiction) if she's on her own property (or very close thereto). A
16-gauge shotgun is also an excellent choice. Be sure to tell her:
"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!"

Second: For a deterrence gate, you'll also need a "Really Bad Dog"
sign. The sign, coupled with an infa-red or acoustic trigger for the
most inspiring growl you can find (taping the lion at the zoo comes
to mind) is also appropriate.

Third, don't neglect the concertina wire.


A shotgun's great if you're already in the house. But, nobody comes
home from the grocery store hauling a shotgun.

I do. I have a 20-gauge with a pistol grip in the car. I guess there are
some who don't...

If the gremlins managed to get in my house, thinking they could ambush me
[penetrating the burglar bars and alarm system], they would be attacked by a
brace of ferocious cats.

As a compromise, Ruger makes a weapon called "The Judge." It's a revolver
that fires .410 shotgun AND .45 long Colt cartridges. You can mix-and-match
your ammunition, say three shotgun and three pistol rounds.

-------
You may want to take your mom to see a new movie: "Taken"* starring Liam
Neeson. It illustrates the rule that if you leave a confrontation with
unfired bullets, you've wasted a resource.

"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking for
ransom, I can tell you I don't have money.

"What I do have is a very particular set of skills - skills I have acquired
over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like
you.

"If you let my daughter go now, that will be the end of it. But if you
don't, I will look for you.

"I will find you.

"I will kill you."

I'm telling you, it's the "Bourne Identity" on ampheta-steroids. In one
scene, Neeson walks unarmed into a room with seven crazy, armed, Albanians,
and kills six of them. The seventh he ties to a chair, rams a spike in each
thigh, and hooks him up to the power grid ("I want you to focus"). I call it
the "tea-time" scene.

I'm generally ambivalent about chick-flicks, but this one is good.

----------
* Not yet released in the U.S. (I had to go to Paris to see it). Watch for
it though.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Ah, okay. A "deterrence" gate.

First, I don't think she needs a pistol permit (depending on the
jurisdiction) if she's on her own property (or very close thereto). A
16-gauge shotgun is also an excellent choice. Be sure to tell her:
"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!"

Second: For a deterrence gate, you'll also need a "Really Bad Dog"
sign. The sign, coupled with an infa-red or acoustic trigger for the
most inspiring growl you can find (taping the lion at the zoo comes
to mind) is also appropriate.

Third, don't neglect the concertina wire.


A shotgun's great if you're already in the house. But, nobody comes
home from the grocery store hauling a shotgun.

I do. I have a 20-gauge with a pistol grip in the car. I guess there are
some who don't...

If the gremlins managed to get in my house, thinking they could ambush me
[penetrating the burglar bars and alarm system], they would be attacked by
a brace of ferocious cats.

As a compromise, Ruger makes a weapon called "The Judge." It's a revolver
that fires .410 shotgun AND .45 long Colt cartridges. You can
mix-and-match your ammunition, say three shotgun and three pistol rounds.

-------
You may want to take your mom to see a new movie: "Taken"* starring Liam
Neeson. It illustrates the rule that if you leave a confrontation with
unfired bullets, you've wasted a resource.

"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking
for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money.

"What I do have is a very particular set of skills - skills I have
acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for
people like you.

"If you let my daughter go now, that will be the end of it. But if you
don't, I will look for you.

"I will find you.

"I will kill you."

I'm telling you, it's the "Bourne Identity" on ampheta-steroids. In one
scene, Neeson walks unarmed into a room with seven crazy, armed,
Albanians, and kills six of them. The seventh he ties to a chair, rams a
spike in each thigh, and hooks him up to the power grid ("I want you to
focus"). I call it the "tea-time" scene.

I'm generally ambivalent about chick-flicks, but this one is good.

----------
* Not yet released in the U.S. (I had to go to Paris to see it). Watch for
it though.


Yeah OK. Sure.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Ah, okay. A "deterrence" gate.

First, I don't think she needs a pistol permit (depending on the
jurisdiction) if she's on her own property (or very close thereto). A
16-gauge shotgun is also an excellent choice. Be sure to tell her:
"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!"

Second: For a deterrence gate, you'll also need a "Really Bad Dog"
sign. The sign, coupled with an infa-red or acoustic trigger for the
most inspiring growl you can find (taping the lion at the zoo comes
to mind) is also appropriate.

Third, don't neglect the concertina wire.


A shotgun's great if you're already in the house. But, nobody comes
home from the grocery store hauling a shotgun.

I do. I have a 20-gauge with a pistol grip in the car. I guess there are
some who don't...

If the gremlins managed to get in my house, thinking they could ambush me
[penetrating the burglar bars and alarm system], they would be attacked by
a brace of ferocious cats.

As a compromise, Ruger makes a weapon called "The Judge." It's a revolver
that fires .410 shotgun AND .45 long Colt cartridges. You can
mix-and-match your ammunition, say three shotgun and three pistol rounds.

-------
You may want to take your mom to see a new movie: "Taken"* starring Liam
Neeson. It illustrates the rule that if you leave a confrontation with
unfired bullets, you've wasted a resource.

"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking
for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money.

"What I do have is a very particular set of skills - skills I have
acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for
people like you.

"If you let my daughter go now, that will be the end of it. But if you
don't, I will look for you.

"I will find you.

"I will kill you."

I'm telling you, it's the "Bourne Identity" on ampheta-steroids. In one
scene, Neeson walks unarmed into a room with seven crazy, armed,
Albanians, and kills six of them. The seventh he ties to a chair, rams a
spike in each thigh, and hooks him up to the power grid ("I want you to
focus"). I call it the "tea-time" scene.

I'm generally ambivalent about chick-flicks, but this one is good.

----------
* Not yet released in the U.S. (I had to go to Paris to see it). Watch for
it though.


Yeah OK. Sure.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Ah, okay. A "deterrence" gate.

First, I don't think she needs a pistol permit (depending on the
jurisdiction) if she's on her own property (or very close thereto). A
16-gauge shotgun is also an excellent choice. Be sure to tell her:
"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!"

Second: For a deterrence gate, you'll also need a "Really Bad Dog"
sign. The sign, coupled with an infa-red or acoustic trigger for the
most inspiring growl you can find (taping the lion at the zoo comes
to mind) is also appropriate.

Third, don't neglect the concertina wire.


A shotgun's great if you're already in the house. But, nobody comes
home from the grocery store hauling a shotgun.

I do. I have a 20-gauge with a pistol grip in the car. I guess there are
some who don't...

If the gremlins managed to get in my house, thinking they could ambush me
[penetrating the burglar bars and alarm system], they would be attacked by
a brace of ferocious cats.

As a compromise, Ruger makes a weapon called "The Judge." It's a revolver
that fires .410 shotgun AND .45 long Colt cartridges. You can
mix-and-match your ammunition, say three shotgun and three pistol rounds.

-------
You may want to take your mom to see a new movie: "Taken"* starring Liam
Neeson. It illustrates the rule that if you leave a confrontation with
unfired bullets, you've wasted a resource.

"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking
for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money.

"What I do have is a very particular set of skills - skills I have
acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for
people like you.

"If you let my daughter go now, that will be the end of it. But if you
don't, I will look for you.

"I will find you.

"I will kill you."

I'm telling you, it's the "Bourne Identity" on ampheta-steroids. In one
scene, Neeson walks unarmed into a room with seven crazy, armed,
Albanians, and kills six of them. The seventh he ties to a chair, rams a
spike in each thigh, and hooks him up to the power grid ("I want you to
focus"). I call it the "tea-time" scene.

I'm generally ambivalent about chick-flicks, but this one is good.

----------
* Not yet released in the U.S. (I had to go to Paris to see it). Watch for
it though.


Yeah OK. Sure.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

The only one imagining things is the one who doesn't know enough
about how roundup works. It gets absorbed into the leaves of the
plants that it kills and
otherwise breaks down into harmless components very rapidly. Ther's
nothing to
"remove"


And yet, there are still concerns about the stuff, from sources which
neither you nor I are qualified to question.

You will now ask for a cite.

No need. As Jesus said: "The fools will always be with us." If someone
invented hot water tonight, a movement opposing it would spring up by
morning. There have been movements against lightning rods, Fluoridation,
blood transfusions, vaccinations, radial tires, flying machines, you name
it. Even today, there is agitation against PEX, trans-fats, coffee, and
intervention in Iraq.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


How safe it is to eat the fish is easily determined by checking your
state's fishing regulation web site, which will probably contain
warnings about certain fish, and will name the contaminants involved.

So, you have implicit faith in the government, eh?


Salty will now say the contaminants came from outer space, and that
dioxin is a naturally occurring vitamin.

The "authorities" have been wrong before. In banning DDT, millions were
condemned to an early death. By banning silicone breast implants, millions
were deprived of joy in their life. Sometimes the self-appointed (or
Clinton-appointed) "experts" can be wrong.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


How safe it is to eat the fish is easily determined by checking your
state's fishing regulation web site, which will probably contain
warnings about certain fish, and will name the contaminants involved.

So, you have implicit faith in the government, eh?

You never saw me make any such claim.



Salty will now say the contaminants came from outer space, and that
dioxin is a naturally occurring vitamin.

The "authorities" have been wrong before. In banning DDT, millions were
condemned to an early death. By banning silicone breast implants, millions
were deprived of joy in their life. Sometimes the self-appointed (or
Clinton-appointed) "experts" can be wrong.


Remember always that your reputation for saying stupid things is legendary
in this newsgroup.