Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

About a year ago, I got two small space heaters. Both made in China, but
different brands. They lasted one winter with only occasional use.

One failed completely - this is one from Target, made by Midea Fan Mfg. The
one-shot thermal protector opened. Second was made by (rather marketed by)
Holmes, but also made in China. The Holmes unit burned one of the heating
elements and was only putting out low heat.

I bought the Holmes, because the last heater I had from them lasted 15
years. The difference seems to be where they are made. Even if China
sourced products are sold at half the price, my cost over 15 years will be 5
times.

Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?

RichK

Sure they can. Some of the most reliable parts in the PC you're using now
probably were made in China. They will make the parts, appliances, etc.
every bit as good as the manufacturer pays them to.




"RichK" wrote in message
. ..
Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

About a year ago, I got two small space heaters. Both made in China, but
different brands. They lasted one winter with only occasional use.

One failed completely - this is one from Target, made by Midea Fan Mfg.
The
one-shot thermal protector opened. Second was made by (rather marketed
by)
Holmes, but also made in China. The Holmes unit burned one of the heating
elements and was only putting out low heat.

I bought the Holmes, because the last heater I had from them lasted 15
years. The difference seems to be where they are made. Even if China
sourced products are sold at half the price, my cost over 15 years will be
5
times.

Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that
will
even approach what was on the US market before?

RichK

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Sure they can. Some of the most reliable parts in the PC you're using now
probably were made in China. They will make the parts, appliances, etc.
every bit as good as the manufacturer pays them to.

You may be confusing Taiwan with the mainland. Taiwan is years ahead.
Mainland, well they even manage to screw up a simple C-clamp. Want one as a
proof - used twice.

Even so, you must not have heard of the capacitor copy fiasco, if you're
talking about computers.

RichK

"RichK" wrote in message
. ..
Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

I've been saying this for years, and it finally seems to be a reality...

"You get what you pay for. When folks buy the cheap crap instead of
reasonable quality goods, the companies making the unwanted quality goods
will either go bankrupt or switch to the cheap goods."

If you want to do something about it, make a strong point to your retailers
that you WON'T support them if all they stock is cheap junk.

"RichK" wrote
Hi All,
Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?

No bashy, bashy, the Chinese. We soon to own you!

Not at all, I'm simply saying factories in mainland China, Shanghai mainly,
can and do produce excellent first rate things. They are also equally able
to make junk. The companies they are manufacturing for,often American
companies like Mattel, decide what quality they want to pay for



"RichK" wrote in message
. ..

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Sure they can. Some of the most reliable parts in the PC you're using now
probably were made in China. They will make the parts, appliances, etc.
every bit as good as the manufacturer pays them to.

You may be confusing Taiwan with the mainland. Taiwan is years ahead.
Mainland, well they even manage to screw up a simple C-clamp. Want one as
a
proof - used twice.

Even so, you must not have heard of the capacitor copy fiasco, if you're
talking about computers.

RichK

In article , "Sum Ting Wong" wrote:

"RichK" wrote
Hi All,
Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?

No bashy, bashy, the Chinese. We soon to own you!

Ha Ha. Very funny, Sum Ting. But after we're done stealing the oil,
we're gonna find WMDs in Beijing, and then bomb you until you submit to
making more cheap **** for us to buy.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message newsrestwhich-
Ha Ha. Very funny, Sum Ting. But after we're done stealing the oil,
we're gonna find WMDs in Beijing, and then bomb you until you submit to
making more cheap **** for us to buy.

ROFL

Dan

In article , RichK wrote:

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

About a year ago, I got two small space heaters. Both made in China, but
different brands. They lasted one winter with only occasional use.

One failed completely - this is one from Target, made by Midea Fan Mfg. The
one-shot thermal protector opened. Second was made by (rather marketed by)
Holmes, but also made in China. The Holmes unit burned one of the heating
elements and was only putting out low heat.

I bought the Holmes, because the last heater I had from them lasted 15
years. The difference seems to be where they are made. Even if China
sourced products are sold at half the price, my cost over 15 years will be 5
times.

Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?

I once got a Chinese hacksaw that was very well-made. It got stolen, so
I can't identify a "brand" now. I also see Chinese hacksaws that I would
call stool specimens - I had experience with one highly prone to popping
apart during use, along with the blade being prone to twisting badly
enough to make it very difficult (almost iompossible?) to cut straight.

As for Chinese compact fluorescent lamps:

Every spiral one I ever saw nationality of was made in China. Some are
made for GE, Philips and Sylvania, and those tend to be made reasonably
to outright well-made. (I am aware of a bad run that had some units
getting GE's name on them, but that was in 2001.) Philips even has
some impressive limited warranties for some of those.
On the other end are dollar store compact fluorescents. I have yet to
see one significantly outshine a better 40 watt incandescent, nor have I
yet to see one with a light output claim meet its claim, and I have seen
some with color badly described, some with rotten color rendering, and I
already had one give a scary failure (lots of smoke and a burning orange
glow in the base that did not stop until power was shut off), and I know
someone who had one die early with three loud pops and two of these pops
were almost bangs, and he had another die with a lot of smoke output.

- Don Klipstein )

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:07:44 -0500, "RichK" wrote:


Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?


Wear more Made in China warm clothing and skip the space heater
thingies.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
I can remember when they said the same about Japanese.

You took the words right out of my mouth. My parents were both W.W.II vets
(they met in the Navy in the 40's). When I was growing up, Japan & crap
were synonymous to them. And when I was a kid, a lot of it WAS crap, like
the toys. I don't know if they were overtly toxic, like the recent GHB-bead
thing, but I remember taking apart Japanese-made stamped metal toy cars when
I was a kid which said "EverReady" or "Pabst" on the inside - they were made
out of old flashlight batteries & beer cans. Now names like Honda, Sony,
Toyota, Panasonic, etc. are some of the most respected manufacturers
anywhere.

On Nov 24, 9:07 pm, "RichK" wrote:
Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

About a year ago, I got two small space heaters. Both made in China, but
different brands. They lasted one winter with only occasional use.

One failed completely - this is one from Target, made by Midea Fan Mfg. The
one-shot thermal protector opened. Second was made by (rather marketed by)
Holmes, but also made in China. The Holmes unit burned one of the heating
elements and was only putting out low heat.

I bought the Holmes, because the last heater I had from them lasted 15
years. The difference seems to be where they are made. Even if China
sourced products are sold at half the price, my cost over 15 years will be 5
times.

Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?

RichK

Rich: The opposite reason to why we prefer to buy a Japanese brand
vehicle; 'manufactured/assembled in Japan'. Even if it costs a little
more!
The last two "Japanese" vehicles we have were assembled somewhere in
Tennessee IIRC?
Probably have had some real Japanese parts but definitely minor
differences and deficiencies from the genuine Japanese article! For
example you don't expect vehicles manufactured for and in North
America to have wiper problems! Both of these did.
In other words to lower costs.
Eventually, probably fairly soon, China and India will get to the
point of producing good vehicles.
Back in the 1930s Japanese goods were considered junk. Now Japan
produces the most reliable vehicles!
Also much of the higher quality electronics etc.
AND JAPAN IS AN EXPENSIVE COUNTRY WITH VERY FEW NATURAL RESOURCES OF
ITS OWN.
We in North America are also suffering from the Wal Mart Syndrome. WM
drives down prices so severely, often by leaning on the manufacturers
that quality suffers. Saw some figures recently that Wal Mart USA
alone annually buys more goods from China than the GDP of some of the
world's nations! So they have a major influence on world quality of
goods.

On Nov 24, 7:22 pm, "Noozer" wrote:
"RichK" wrote in message

. ..

Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

I've been saying this for years, and it finally seems to be a reality...

"You get what you pay for. When folks buy the cheap crap instead of
reasonable quality goods, the companies making the unwanted quality goods
will either go bankrupt or switch to the cheap goods."

If you want to do something about it, make a strong point to your retailers
that you WON'T support them if all they stock is cheap junk.


Some people are specifically looking for cheap stuff and are willing
to compromise quality and durability. This is the market Chinese
products are trying to fill. When I want a screwdriver or a clamp
which I might only use once, I get the cheap stuff from Harbor Freight
tools. They are so cheap I get a bunch of them. If one breaks I always
have another one on hand. If I want something more durable, I get it
from a known manufacturer, usually US or European. Before Chinese
products came on the scene, you had to buy the professional grade
tools with life time warranties that cost an arm and a leg. There is a
need for low quality cheap stuff too. The problem comes when the
customers can't distinguish between the good and bad stuff.

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:40:49 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

On Nov 24, 9:07 pm, "RichK" wrote:
Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

About a year ago, I got two small space heaters. Both made in China, but
different brands. They lasted one winter with only occasional use.

One failed completely - this is one from Target, made by Midea Fan Mfg. The
one-shot thermal protector opened. Second was made by (rather marketed by)
Holmes, but also made in China. The Holmes unit burned one of the heating
elements and was only putting out low heat.

I bought the Holmes, because the last heater I had from them lasted 15
years. The difference seems to be where they are made. Even if China
sourced products are sold at half the price, my cost over 15 years will be 5
times.

Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?

RichK

Rich: The opposite reason to why we prefer to buy a Japanese brand
vehicle; 'manufactured/assembled in Japan'. Even if it costs a little
more!
The last two "Japanese" vehicles we have were assembled somewhere in
Tennessee IIRC?
Probably have had some real Japanese parts but definitely minor
differences and deficiencies from the genuine Japanese article! For
example you don't expect vehicles manufactured for and in North
America to have wiper problems! Both of these did.
In other words to lower costs.
Eventually, probably fairly soon, China and India will get to the
point of producing good vehicles.
Back in the 1930s Japanese goods were considered junk. Now Japan
produces the most reliable vehicles!
Also much of the higher quality electronics etc.
AND JAPAN IS AN EXPENSIVE COUNTRY WITH VERY FEW NATURAL RESOURCES OF
ITS OWN.
We in North America are also suffering from the Wal Mart Syndrome. WM
drives down prices so severely, often by leaning on the manufacturers
that quality suffers. Saw some figures recently that Wal Mart USA
alone annually buys more goods from China than the GDP of some of the
world's nations! So they have a major influence on world quality of
goods.

So why are we buying this stuff made in other countries anyhow. We
only hurt ourselves with lack of jobs and higher taxes here in the US.
I must admit I like a bargain as much as anyone else, but often those
bargains end up costing more in the end. Spend $20 on an electric
heater that lasts one year, or spend $30 on one that lasts 10 years.
I am well aware of those cheap CF bulbs and I too have had them go up
in smoke and sparks. I'm starting to phase them out and go back to
regular bulbs, partially because they never last long, so where is the
savings, but more so because I think they are a fire hazzard.
China tools are pure crap. I dont buy the most expensive tools, but I
am not going to spend a cent on some tool that bends in my hands when
I use it, and busts a few knuckles too. I just needed some of the
larger torx sockets. Not something I use very often so I was not
going to spend much. A no-name china made set sold for $21, a Stanley
set was $29. Or an expensive top pf the line set was $59. I decided
to pay the $29. Stanley is not the best of all tools, but sure beats
some no-name China crap, which will probably snap off at a critical
moment and really **** me off, if not do more damage. I think Stanley
is made in the USA, but I did not look this time since I was hurried.
I could just see it was a better made tool then the el-cheapo china
crud.

wrote:

So why are we buying this stuff made in other countries anyhow. We
only hurt ourselves with lack of jobs and higher taxes here in the US.

Adam Smith in "The Wealth of Nations" (1776) settled this hash years ago
when he proved that countries should do what they do "best."


I must admit I like a bargain as much as anyone else, but often those
bargains end up costing more in the end. Spend $20 on an electric
heater that lasts one year, or spend $30 on one that lasts 10 years.

If you're only going to use the heater for one year, why pay a $10 premium?

On Nov 25, 7:09 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

So why are we buying this stuff made in other countries anyhow. We
only hurt ourselves with lack of jobs and higher taxes here in the US.

Adam Smith in "The Wealth of Nations" (1776) settled this hash years ago
when he proved that countries should do what they do "best."

I must admit I like a bargain as much as anyone else, but often those
bargains end up costing more in the end. Spend $20 on an electric
heater that lasts one year, or spend $30 on one that lasts 10 years.

If you're only going to use the heater for one year, why pay a $10 premium?

The king of this movement is good old Wallmart they led the charge to
China , Mexico and to who ever could make it for what they wanted it.
Face it America corpreate America is bitting you in the ass we get the
same **** up here in Canada . It is sad but we want cheap prices so we
get it for cheap for a reason.

Stanley tool, for example, has 20,000 employees at 114 manufacturing and
distribution centers in 20 countries. In today's global market, the line is
blurred as to what "made in USA" means. The one thing Stanley tool and every
other manufacturer still control, is the quality they demand from overseas
plants. There is and always has been a demand for cheap manufacture goods.
It's unfair to blame China for supplying them, and it's ludicrous to believe
the Chinese incapable of manufacturing quality products




wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:40:49 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

On Nov 24, 9:07 pm, "RichK" wrote:
Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

About a year ago, I got two small space heaters. Both made in China,
but
different brands. They lasted one winter with only occasional use.

One failed completely - this is one from Target, made by Midea Fan Mfg.
The
one-shot thermal protector opened. Second was made by (rather marketed
by)
Holmes, but also made in China. The Holmes unit burned one of the
heating
elements and was only putting out low heat.

I bought the Holmes, because the last heater I had from them lasted 15
years. The difference seems to be where they are made. Even if China
sourced products are sold at half the price, my cost over 15 years will
be 5
times.

Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that
will
even approach what was on the US market before?

RichK

Rich: The opposite reason to why we prefer to buy a Japanese brand
vehicle; 'manufactured/assembled in Japan'. Even if it costs a little
more!
The last two "Japanese" vehicles we have were assembled somewhere in
Tennessee IIRC?
Probably have had some real Japanese parts but definitely minor
differences and deficiencies from the genuine Japanese article! For
example you don't expect vehicles manufactured for and in North
America to have wiper problems! Both of these did.
In other words to lower costs.
Eventually, probably fairly soon, China and India will get to the
point of producing good vehicles.
Back in the 1930s Japanese goods were considered junk. Now Japan
produces the most reliable vehicles!
Also much of the higher quality electronics etc.
AND JAPAN IS AN EXPENSIVE COUNTRY WITH VERY FEW NATURAL RESOURCES OF
ITS OWN.
We in North America are also suffering from the Wal Mart Syndrome. WM
drives down prices so severely, often by leaning on the manufacturers
that quality suffers. Saw some figures recently that Wal Mart USA
alone annually buys more goods from China than the GDP of some of the
world's nations! So they have a major influence on world quality of
goods.

So why are we buying this stuff made in other countries anyhow. We
only hurt ourselves with lack of jobs and higher taxes here in the US.
I must admit I like a bargain as much as anyone else, but often those
bargains end up costing more in the end. Spend $20 on an electric
heater that lasts one year, or spend $30 on one that lasts 10 years.
I am well aware of those cheap CF bulbs and I too have had them go up
in smoke and sparks. I'm starting to phase them out and go back to
regular bulbs, partially because they never last long, so where is the
savings, but more so because I think they are a fire hazzard.
China tools are pure crap. I dont buy the most expensive tools, but I
am not going to spend a cent on some tool that bends in my hands when
I use it, and busts a few knuckles too. I just needed some of the
larger torx sockets. Not something I use very often so I was not
going to spend much. A no-name china made set sold for $21, a Stanley
set was $29. Or an expensive top pf the line set was $59. I decided
to pay the $29. Stanley is not the best of all tools, but sure beats
some no-name China crap, which will probably snap off at a critical
moment and really **** me off, if not do more damage. I think Stanley
is made in the USA, but I did not look this time since I was hurried.
I could just see it was a better made tool then the el-cheapo china
crud.

HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
So why are we buying this stuff made in other countries anyhow. We
only hurt ourselves with lack of jobs and higher taxes here in the US.

Adam Smith in "The Wealth of Nations" (1776) settled this hash years ago
when he proved that countries should do what they do "best."


He didn't "prove" anything.



I must admit I like a bargain as much as anyone else, but often those
bargains end up costing more in the end. Spend $20 on an electric
heater that lasts one year, or spend $30 on one that lasts 10 years.

If you're only going to use the heater for one year, why pay a $10 premium?



But durable goods are typically purchased for longer usage periods
(thats why they are called durable). And then there is the issue of what
to do with all of the Walmart junk that fills landfills because you need
to buy one every year instead of maybe every 20 years.

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:40:49 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

On Nov 24, 9:07 pm, "RichK" wrote:
Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

About a year ago, I got two small space heaters. Both made in China, but
different brands. They lasted one winter with only occasional use.

One failed completely - this is one from Target, made by Midea Fan Mfg. The
one-shot thermal protector opened. Second was made by (rather marketed by)
Holmes, but also made in China. The Holmes unit burned one of the heating
elements and was only putting out low heat.

I bought the Holmes, because the last heater I had from them lasted 15
years. The difference seems to be where they are made. Even if China
sourced products are sold at half the price, my cost over 15 years will be 5
times.

Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?

RichK
Rich: The opposite reason to why we prefer to buy a Japanese brand
vehicle; 'manufactured/assembled in Japan'. Even if it costs a little
more!
The last two "Japanese" vehicles we have were assembled somewhere in
Tennessee IIRC?
Probably have had some real Japanese parts but definitely minor
differences and deficiencies from the genuine Japanese article! For
example you don't expect vehicles manufactured for and in North
America to have wiper problems! Both of these did.
In other words to lower costs.
Eventually, probably fairly soon, China and India will get to the
point of producing good vehicles.
Back in the 1930s Japanese goods were considered junk. Now Japan
produces the most reliable vehicles!
Also much of the higher quality electronics etc.
AND JAPAN IS AN EXPENSIVE COUNTRY WITH VERY FEW NATURAL RESOURCES OF
ITS OWN.
We in North America are also suffering from the Wal Mart Syndrome. WM
drives down prices so severely, often by leaning on the manufacturers
that quality suffers. Saw some figures recently that Wal Mart USA
alone annually buys more goods from China than the GDP of some of the
world's nations! So they have a major influence on world quality of
goods.

So why are we buying this stuff made in other countries anyhow.

Because walmart has everyone hypnotized into thinking the only important
thing to worry about is price and most people really don't understand
the slippery slope of gutting your own economy and manufacturing and
enabling another to be the next dominant world power. "low prices
everyday" is a powerful siren song.



We
only hurt ourselves with lack of jobs and higher taxes here in the US.
I must admit I like a bargain as much as anyone else, but often those
bargains end up costing more in the end. Spend $20 on an electric
heater that lasts one year, or spend $30 on one that lasts 10 years.
I am well aware of those cheap CF bulbs and I too have had them go up
in smoke and sparks. I'm starting to phase them out and go back to
regular bulbs, partially because they never last long, so where is the
savings, but more so because I think they are a fire hazzard.
China tools are pure crap. I dont buy the most expensive tools, but I
am not going to spend a cent on some tool that bends in my hands when
I use it, and busts a few knuckles too. I just needed some of the
larger torx sockets. Not something I use very often so I was not
going to spend much. A no-name china made set sold for $21, a Stanley
set was $29. Or an expensive top pf the line set was $59. I decided
to pay the $29. Stanley is not the best of all tools, but sure beats
some no-name China crap, which will probably snap off at a critical
moment and really **** me off, if not do more damage. I think Stanley
is made in the USA, but I did not look this time since I was hurried.
I could just see it was a better made tool then the el-cheapo china
crud.

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message

There is and always has been a demand for cheap manufacture goods.
It's unfair to blame China for supplying them, and it's ludicrous to
believe
the Chinese incapable of manufacturing quality products

Less expensive and crap and not synonyms. There were always lower end
products, with fewer features and no frills. This can be accomplished by
methods other than bad welds and crimps on portable heaters.

If you believe the women in China are told to make bad crimps on wires,
you're off your rocker. They do that because they don't know any better and
their boss does not care.

Yeah, maybe 20 years from now the quality will improve, but I doubt it.
There will always be cheaper (read less trained) labor in China, so do not
expect things to change in our lifetime. Comparison to Japan is pointless -
two totally different cultures.

I have not seen a product from China which is well made, from C-clamps, to
pair of pliers, to dust bins, to DVD players. Whenever possible I look for
US made goods, but that's hardly possible anymore, regardless of price.
Needless to say the likes of Wal-Mart play a major hand in this.

RichK

In article ,
wrote in part:

I am well aware of those cheap CF bulbs and I too have had them go up
in smoke and sparks. I'm starting to phase them out and go back to
regular bulbs, partially because they never last long, so where is the
savings, but more so because I think they are a fire hazzard.

CFLs tend to be better if these guidelines are followed:

* If they are of "Big 3" brands: GE, Philips and Sylvania.

* If they have the "Energy Star" logo.

* Ones with ballasts included inside (all common screw base ones) are
supposed to be UL listed. Dollar store CFLs are often not. I have
also seen dollar store junk (specifically an extension cord) with fake
UL listing.
One dollar store model has been recalled for being known to have its
ballast housing made with non-fire-retardant plastic. Good ones with
valid UL listing are made with fire retardant plastic.

* CFLs tend to fail to be more economical when used where they are only on
for a short period of time, such as in motion sensor lights,
refrigerators, and restrooms used mainly for short trips.

* It is common for integral-ballast CFLs to overheat in recessed ceiling
fixtures. CFLs used in recessed ceiling fixtures should be any of
these:

a) Specifically rated for recessed ceiling fixtures, such as Philips
non-dimmable SLS of wattage up to 23 watts

b) A flodlight style type, obviously made to be likely to be used in
such fixtures, and preferably of lower wattage (under 20 watts)

c) Lower wattages such as 14 watts or less are generally less likely
to overheat

- Don Klipstein )

On Nov 24, 4:07 pm, "RichK" wrote:
Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

About a year ago, I got two small space heaters. Both made in China, but
different brands. They lasted one winter with only occasional use.

One failed completely - this is one from Target, made by Midea Fan Mfg. The
one-shot thermal protector opened. Second was made by (rather marketed by)
Holmes, but also made in China. The Holmes unit burned one of the heating
elements and was only putting out low heat.

I bought the Holmes, because the last heater I had from them lasted 15
years. The difference seems to be where they are made. Even if China
sourced products are sold at half the price, my cost over 15 years will be 5
times.

Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?

RichK


RichK,

you know you are only getting what you paid for.

Btw: Isn't Target for poor asian kids?

I have two electric space heaters: a Lakewood oil radiator
and an AdobeAir oscillating ceramic heater. Both
are many years old -so I can't speak for the newer
models However, my LakewoodModel 7000/A electric
oil radiator space heater still works well with the
exception of one bad power level lights
(it is very old and the least expensive of the
two units). The AdobeAir, Inc Model C300000
has also worked for years but I don't use it too
often - it has its own floor stand. Both can operate
from 600W to 1500W. Both were made in China.
I inherited my Lakewood oil radiator from my
father when he passed away - my guess is that
it is about 20 years old. The AdobeAir unit is
about ten years old.

The chinese export market is price sensitve
but currently it is not quality sensitive.
This is because the general market is more
or less price sensitve not quality sensitive.
Much of that is due to the rise of
big box retailing and how it has put significantly
greater price pressures on manufacturers in
recent times.
I'd check consumer reports next time
before buying an applicance if I were you.

Wrt to when will export quality rise?

We look at Japan as an example.

The quality of Japanese manufactured goods rose
when its society became more affluent and more of its production
was
domestically consumed rather than exported abroad. As Japanese
society
became more affluent, they affected the quality of the goods
manufactured
there - often test marketing japanese manufactured goods before
they were
being exported abroad. For example, japanese hybrid cars were
market
tested in Japan before being exported to the USA. Thus it is not
the
influence of export consumer but the domestic consumer that is key
to raising the quality of exported chinese manufactured goods.
so....
As Chinese consumers become more affluent ( i.e. there
are more rich chinse kids in China) they will consumes and
demand higher quality goods and products from chinese
manufacturers. Eventually the effect of this demand for higher
quality within the domestic market will trickle down to export
markets.

Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies in
China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we pay for. I
think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent companies who
clearly ignore quality control.



"RichK" wrote in message
...

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message

There is and always has been a demand for cheap manufacture goods.
It's unfair to blame China for supplying them, and it's ludicrous to
believe
the Chinese incapable of manufacturing quality products

Less expensive and crap and not synonyms. There were always lower end
products, with fewer features and no frills. This can be accomplished by
methods other than bad welds and crimps on portable heaters.

If you believe the women in China are told to make bad crimps on wires,
you're off your rocker. They do that because they don't know any better
and
their boss does not care.

Yeah, maybe 20 years from now the quality will improve, but I doubt it.
There will always be cheaper (read less trained) labor in China, so do not
expect things to change in our lifetime. Comparison to Japan is
pointless -
two totally different cultures.

I have not seen a product from China which is well made, from C-clamps, to
pair of pliers, to dust bins, to DVD players. Whenever possible I look
for
US made goods, but that's hardly possible anymore, regardless of price.
Needless to say the likes of Wal-Mart play a major hand in this.

RichK

RBM wrote:

Not at all, I'm simply saying factories in mainland China, Shanghai mainly,
can and do produce excellent first rate things. They are also equally able
to make junk. The companies they are manufacturing for,often American
companies like Mattel, decide what quality they want to pay for




Well, you are close. American consumers want as much as they can get of
the cheapest crap in the world. The day-after-Thanksgiving was evidence
of that.

Noozer wrote:

"RichK" wrote in message
...


Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.



I've been saying this for years, and it finally seems to be a reality...

"You get what you pay for. When folks buy the cheap crap instead of
reasonable quality goods, the companies making the unwanted quality goods
will either go bankrupt or switch to the cheap goods."

If you want to do something about it, make a strong point to your retailers
that you WON'T support them if all they stock is cheap junk.




I just did that with Home Depot and Price Pfister faucets. Never again.

clipped

Eventually, probably fairly soon, China and India will get to the
point of producing good vehicles.
Back in the 1930s Japanese goods were considered junk. Now Japan
produces the most reliable vehicles!
Also much of the higher quality electronics etc.


My Datsun (now Nissan) was a lemon.
My '76 Chevy was great.
My '84 Buick is still great. Salt air is tough on her, though.

AND JAPAN IS AN EXPENSIVE COUNTRY WITH VERY FEW NATURAL RESOURCES OF
ITS OWN.
We in North America are also suffering from the Wal Mart Syndrome. WM
drives down prices so severely, often by leaning on the manufacturers
that quality suffers. Saw some figures recently that Wal Mart USA
alone annually buys more goods from China than the GDP of some of the
world's nations! So they have a major influence on world quality of
goods.

RBM wrote:

Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies in
China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we pay for. I
think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent companies who
clearly ignore quality control.



Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?

On Nov 25, 9:17 am, drydem wrote:
On Nov 24, 4:07 pm, "RichK" wrote:





Hi All,

Just wondering, because I'm having terrible luck with anything made in
China. In most cases I have no choice, but to buy the junk that fails a
month after the warranty.

About a year ago, I got two small space heaters. Both made in China, but
different brands. They lasted one winter with only occasional use.

One failed completely - this is one from Target, made by Midea Fan Mfg. The
one-shot thermal protector opened. Second was made by (rather marketed by)
Holmes, but also made in China. The Holmes unit burned one of the heating
elements and was only putting out low heat.

I bought the Holmes, because the last heater I had from them lasted 15
years. The difference seems to be where they are made. Even if China
sourced products are sold at half the price, my cost over 15 years will be 5
times.

Both are very simple appliances. Can't the Chinese make anything that will
even approach what was on the US market before?

RichK

RichK,

you know you are only getting what you paid for.

Btw: Isn't Target for poor asian kids?

I have two electric space heaters: a Lakewood oil radiator
and an AdobeAir oscillating ceramic heater. Both
are many years old -so I can't speak for the newer
models However, my LakewoodModel 7000/A electric
oil radiator space heater still works well with the
exception of one bad power level lights
(it is very old and the least expensive of the
two units). The AdobeAir, Inc Model C300000
has also worked for years but I don't use it too
often - it has its own floor stand. Both can operate
from 600W to 1500W. Both were made in China.

correction:
I just went upstairs to check my old Lakewood
and found out that my Lakewood radiator was
made in the USA (Illinois) not China. My bad.
Amazing how it still works, too. :-)


I inherited my Lakewood oil radiator from my
father when he passed away - my guess is that
it is about 20 years old. The AdobeAir unit is
about ten years old.

The chinese export market is price sensitve
but currently it is not quality sensitive.
This is because the general market is more
or less price sensitve not quality sensitive.
Much of that is due to the rise of
big box retailing and how it has put significantly
greater price pressures on manufacturers in
recent times.
I'd check consumer reports next time
before buying an applicance if I were you.

Wrt to when will export quality rise?

We look at Japan as an example.

The quality of Japanese manufactured goods rose
when its society became more affluent and more of its
production was domestically consumed rather than
exported abroad. As Japanese society became more
affluent, they affected the quality of the goods
manufactured there - often test marketing japanese
manufactured goods before they were being exported
abroad. For example, japanese hybrid cars were
market tested in Japan before being exported to
the USA. Thus it is not the influence of export
consumer but the domestic consumer that is key
to raising the quality of exported chinese manufactured goods.
so....
As Chinese consumers become more affluent ( i.e. there
are more rich chinse kids in China) they will consumes and
demand higher quality goods and products from chinese
manufacturers. Eventually the effect of this demand for higher
quality within the domestic market will trickle down to export
markets.-

I expect that as the chinese manufacturing
sector matures - more chinese manufacturers will
start to do more independent research and
product development which eventually lead to
chinese manufacturers dictating higher levels
quality. Big Box retailers whose primary focus
is just price will start importing from other
countries, where they can dictate price.

Noozer wrote:
I've been saying this for years, and it finally seems to be a reality...

"You get what you pay for. When folks buy the cheap crap instead of
reasonable quality goods, the companies making the unwanted quality goods
will either go bankrupt or switch to the cheap goods."

You SOMETIMES get what you pay for. Buying the most expensive item may get
you quality, or it may just subsidize an overactive marketing department.
Further, to say that scammers can't overcharge to insinuate quality would
be downright foolish.

--
Angry American flags attack Hillary Clinton!

Joseph Meehan wrote:
I can remember when they said the same about Japanese.

I can remember when it was true of Japanese products.

--
Angry American flags attack Hillary Clinton!

Norminn wrote:
Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?

The worker's family pays for the bullet?

--
Angry American flags attack Hillary Clinton!

others said:

you know you are only getting what you paid for.
Btw: Isn't Target for poor asian kids?

In Texas, it's the Hispanics ;-)

The chinese export market is price sensitve
but currently it is not quality sensitive.
This is because the general market is more
or less price sensitve not quality sensitive.

The quality of Japanese manufactured goods rose
when its society became more affluent and more of its production
was
domestically consumed rather than exported abroad. As Japanese
society
became more affluent, they affected the quality of the goods
manufactured
there - often test marketing japanese manufactured goods before
they were
being exported abroad.

The quality of Japanese products and affluency rose when the
workers were unionized. Which was also their downfall,
costs became too high so that production found Southeast
Asia, then India. But Japan's improved technical education
allowed them to move into high technology production where
better margins moved them from quantity to quality.

SE Asia didn't do the tech education thing right and lost
out to China. India is now loosing some markets to China,
high tech education is there, yet to see how they go. They
are exporting a lot of their educated.

Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that
only have the capability of crankin out crap. There are
also thousands of companies in China capable of making top
of the line anything.

China likes the aroma of success, but can the government
handle success and their people. If so, the unionization
and market outpricing can't be far behind. There seems to
always be someone ready to fill the need for low cost
production.

We get what we pay for. I think your
dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent
companies who clearly ignore quality control.

The companies are providing exactly what the market demands.
That's the only way any business stays around.

You ARE the market, you determine what is made, at what
price. But you could be in the minority, for the time
being. Or simply buying at the wrong place ;-)

-larry / dallas

Norminn wrote:
RBM wrote:

Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies
in China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we
pay for. I think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent
companies who clearly ignore quality control.



Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?


They kick you out of the way, bring in another worker, fire you and
harvest your organs for resale to the worlds rich. That way the company
doesn't lose money because of loss of production from the time needed to
force the next person to work the unsafe conditions.

In article Bak2j.213889$Fc.126562@attbi_s21, wrote:

Norminn wrote:
RBM wrote:

Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies
in China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we
pay for. I think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent
companies who clearly ignore quality control.



Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?


They kick you out of the way, bring in another worker, fire you and
harvest your organs for resale to the worlds rich. That way the company
doesn't lose money because of loss of production from the time needed to
force the next person to work the unsafe conditions.

Nobody is forced to work in factories in China. They gladly work six
12-hour days for a $1/day in order to escape the difficult life of
poverty in the rural areas. (Everything is relative.)

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:46:30 -0500, Norminn
wrote:

RBM wrote:

Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies in
China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we pay for. I
think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent companies who
clearly ignore quality control.



Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?

None. Low level factory jobs are not career jobs. Migrant workers
work three or four years and move up, move out , move home or start
their own enterprises.

Smitty Two wrote:

In article Bak2j.213889$Fc.126562@attbi_s21, wrote:



Norminn wrote:


RBM wrote:



Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies
in China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we
pay for. I think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent
companies who clearly ignore quality control.




Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?


They kick you out of the way, bring in another worker, fire you and
harvest your organs for resale to the worlds rich. That way the company
doesn't lose money because of loss of production from the time needed to
force the next person to work the unsafe conditions.



Nobody is forced to work in factories in China. They gladly work six
12-hour days for a $1/day in order to escape the difficult life of
poverty in the rural areas. (Everything is relative.)


Not so. They lure workers with promises of good jobs and then hold them
hostage, with no means to go back home.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article Bak2j.213889$Fc.126562@attbi_s21, wrote:

Norminn wrote:
RBM wrote:

Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies
in China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we
pay for. I think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent
companies who clearly ignore quality control.


Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?

They kick you out of the way, bring in another worker, fire you and
harvest your organs for resale to the worlds rich. That way the company
doesn't lose money because of loss of production from the time needed to
force the next person to work the unsafe conditions.

Nobody is forced to work in factories in China. They gladly work six
12-hour days for a $1/day in order to escape the difficult life of
poverty in the rural areas. (Everything is relative.)


Whew! It's really good know that these people work in unsafe conditions
voluntarily.
And a dollar an hour? Wow. Even I could get out of poverty at those rates.
They're smarter than I thought.

PaPaPeng wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:46:30 -0500, Norminn
wrote:

RBM wrote:

Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies in
China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we pay for. I
think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent companies who
clearly ignore quality control.


Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?

None. Low level factory jobs are not career jobs. Migrant workers
work three or four years and move up, move out , move home or start
their own enterprises.


I guess then that this means that they have no incentive to improve
their skills as far as manufacturing.

In article ckl2j.197133$Xa3.94931@attbi_s22, wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article Bak2j.213889$Fc.126562@attbi_s21, wrote:

Norminn wrote:
RBM wrote:

Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies
in China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we
pay for. I think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent
companies who clearly ignore quality control.


Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?

They kick you out of the way, bring in another worker, fire you and
harvest your organs for resale to the worlds rich. That way the company
doesn't lose money because of loss of production from the time needed to
force the next person to work the unsafe conditions.

Nobody is forced to work in factories in China. They gladly work six
12-hour days for a $1/day in order to escape the difficult life of
poverty in the rural areas. (Everything is relative.)


Whew! It's really good know that these people work in unsafe conditions
voluntarily.
And a dollar an hour? Wow. Even I could get out of poverty at those rates.
They're smarter than I thought.

That's $1/day, not $1/hr.

In article ,
Norminn wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

In article Bak2j.213889$Fc.126562@attbi_s21, wrote:



Norminn wrote:


RBM wrote:



Exactly, there are thousands of companies in China that only have the
capability of crankin out crap. There are also thousands of companies
in China capable of making top of the line anything. We get what we
pay for. I think your dissatisfaction should be directed at the parent
companies who clearly ignore quality control.




Wonder what worker's comp. disability benefits are in China?


They kick you out of the way, bring in another worker, fire you and
harvest your organs for resale to the worlds rich. That way the company
doesn't lose money because of loss of production from the time needed to
force the next person to work the unsafe conditions.



Nobody is forced to work in factories in China. They gladly work six
12-hour days for a $1/day in order to escape the difficult life of
poverty in the rural areas. (Everything is relative.)


Not so. They lure workers with promises of good jobs and then hold them
hostage, with no means to go back home.

Clearly our sources differ. My story comes from a close friend, who
married a Chinese woman and moved to Beijing about four years ago. I
don't doubt that unscrupulous people exist everywhere, though.