Mamba wrote:
I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I wired
it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I stripped
the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the wire appeared
to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI outlet. In other
words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't "catch". I realize I
could have used the screw attachments, but decided against it, thinking
there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

I pulled out a standard outlet and the wires fit as expected. Still
wouldn't mind using the GFI if I can figure out why it didn't work right.
Can somebody set me straight?

Tnx
Gary





Are you sure that you really had a "push in" outlet?

Some outlets have holes going in from the back in which the side screws
are used to clamp securely down on the wires.

Check it out, that might be it.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I wired
it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I stripped
the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the wire appeared
to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI outlet. In other
words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't "catch". I realize I
could have used the screw attachments, but decided against it, thinking
there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

I pulled out a standard outlet and the wires fit as expected. Still
wouldn't mind using the GFI if I can figure out why it didn't work right.
Can somebody set me straight?

Tnx
Gary

"Mamba" wrote in message
...
I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I wired
it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I
stripped the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the
wire appeared to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI
outlet. In other words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't
"catch". I realize I could have used the screw attachments, but decided
against it, thinking there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

Several folks will tell you to ***NEVER*** use those holes.

*IF* they work when new, they will most certainly cause you issues later.

ALWAYS use the connection secured by a screw. There are outlets that have
the rear holes that have the wire held in by the side screws. These should
be OK.

"Noozer" wrote in message
news:hbrYi.186268$Da.25681@pd7urf1no...

"Mamba" wrote in message
...
I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I
wired it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I
stripped the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the
wire appeared to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI
outlet. In other words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't
"catch". I realize I could have used the screw attachments, but decided
against it, thinking there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

Several folks will tell you to ***NEVER*** use those holes.

*IF* they work when new, they will most certainly cause you issues later.

ALWAYS use the connection secured by a screw. There are outlets that have
the rear holes that have the wire held in by the side screws. These should
be OK.
Well, OK. What about the apparently gauge diffs between wire and the
supplied holes?

Mamba wrote:
I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I wired
it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I stripped
the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the wire appeared
to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI outlet. In other
words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't "catch". I realize I
could have used the screw attachments, but decided against it, thinking
there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

I pulled out a standard outlet and the wires fit as expected. Still
wouldn't mind using the GFI if I can figure out why it didn't work right.
Can somebody set me straight?

Tnx
Gary




never use the backstab connections anyway. always use the screw terminals.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Mamba wrote:
"Noozer" wrote in message
news:hbrYi.186268$Da.25681@pd7urf1no...

"Mamba" wrote in message
...

I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I
wired it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I
stripped the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the
wire appeared to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI
outlet. In other words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't
"catch". I realize I could have used the screw attachments, but decided
against it, thinking there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

Several folks will tell you to ***NEVER*** use those holes.

*IF* they work when new, they will most certainly cause you issues later.

ALWAYS use the connection secured by a screw. There are outlets that have
the rear holes that have the wire held in by the side screws. These should
be OK.

Well, OK. What about the apparently gauge diffs between wire and the
supplied holes?



Are you sure the backstab holes aren't actually clamp connections that
are tightened up when you tighten the screws? All the GFCI receptacles
I've installed are like that and also some "spec grade" regular receps.

And again, if they are *not* like that, who cares? Only hacks use the
"push and lock" backstab connections.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:37:33 -0800, "Mamba" wrote:

Jeff was on it. GFCIs use a hole in the back but you still have to
tighten the screw. It is a clamp plate. The good side is you can use
both holes so you can have 2 wires in each terminal.

OK, thanks all. I was under the mistaken impression that the push-holes
were the desired usage when available. Guess I have a few other outlets I
should re-do.

Call me curious, but just why is using the holes such a bad idea? Seems
pretty straightforward and idiot-proof, assuming the wire fits ;-)

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:34:34 -0800, "Mamba" wrote:

Call me curious, but just why is using the holes such a bad idea? Seems
pretty straightforward and idiot-proof, assuming the wire fits ;-)

I've had outlets (not switches so often) go "bad" on me, and when I
pulled them out to check the wiring, the problem ALWAYS was that the
backstabbed wires had over time pullled out. Reattaching them
properly using the screws solved each problem. I, of course, was not
the one who installed the outlets using the holes; I only use the
screws because I only want to do the job once.

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Mamba wrote:
I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I wired
it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I stripped
the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the wire appeared
to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI outlet. In other
words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't "catch". I realize I
could have used the screw attachments, but decided against it, thinking there
might be an incompatibility somehwere.

I pulled out a standard outlet and the wires fit as expected. Still wouldn't
mind using the GFI if I can figure out why it didn't work right. Can somebody
set me straight?

Tnx
Gary





Are you sure that you really had a "push in" outlet?

Some outlets have holes going in from the back in which the side screws are
used to clamp securely down on the wires.

Check it out, that might be it.

And if it isn't, don't use the holes - use the screws. I never trust "push-in"
connectors for power circuits.

Bob

"Mamba" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:37:33 -0800, "Mamba" wrote:

Jeff was on it. GFCIs use a hole in the back but you still have to
tighten the screw. It is a clamp plate. The good side is you can use
both holes so you can have 2 wires in each terminal.

OK, thanks all. I was under the mistaken impression that the push-holes were
the desired usage when available. Guess I have a few other outlets I should
re-do.

Call me curious, but just why is using the holes such a bad idea? Seems
pretty straightforward and idiot-proof, assuming the wire fits ;-)

They just don't make a secure connection. A piece of metal bends as you push a
wire in to bake pressure on the connection. Tightening a screw makes a lot
tighter connection.

Bob

posted for all of us...




Jeff was on it. GFCIs use a hole in the back but you still have to
tighten the screw. It is a clamp plate. The good side is you can use
both holes so you can have 2 wires in each terminal.

Greg, what would be the proper nomenclature for the two types?
Back stab = push wire in and hope for best 14 gage only
Back wire = has internal clamp activated by screw - recommended.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

with the gfci's you poke the wire in the hole AND tighten the side screw.

s


"Mamba" wrote in message
...
I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I wired
it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I
stripped the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the
wire appeared to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI
outlet. In other words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't
"catch". I realize I could have used the screw attachments, but decided
against it, thinking there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

I pulled out a standard outlet and the wires fit as expected. Still
wouldn't mind using the GFI if I can figure out why it didn't work right.
Can somebody set me straight?

Tnx
Gary

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:37:33 -0800, "Mamba" wrote:

I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I wired
it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I stripped
the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the wire appeared
to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI outlet. In other
words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't "catch". I realize I
could have used the screw attachments, but decided against it, thinking
there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

I pulled out a standard outlet and the wires fit as expected. Still
wouldn't mind using the GFI if I can figure out why it didn't work right.
Can somebody set me straight?

Tnx
Gary



Every GFI I have ever used has holes on the back that clamp the wire
when you tighten the screws. You dont wrap the wire on the screws
like a standard outlet. Strip wire as shown in device or
instructions. Stick it in the hole according to the color code.
Tighten the screws. You're done.....
These are some of the easiest devices to wire.

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:34:34 -0800, "Mamba" wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:37:33 -0800, "Mamba" wrote:

Jeff was on it. GFCIs use a hole in the back but you still have to
tighten the screw. It is a clamp plate. The good side is you can use
both holes so you can have 2 wires in each terminal.

OK, thanks all. I was under the mistaken impression that the push-holes
were the desired usage when available. Guess I have a few other outlets I
should re-do.

Call me curious, but just why is using the holes such a bad idea? Seems
pretty straightforward and idiot-proof, assuming the wire fits ;-)


Because you only have this small piece of spring steel that makes a
connection in less than 1/32 of an inch. It's a poor connection and
all the power has to flow thru that tiny piece of steel. When using
screws, you have a half inch or more of the wire clamped under the
screw. If you plug a large amperage device into a back stab outlet
(like an electric space heater), that small steel clamp can overheat.
It then loses it's springyness from the heat. Once that happens, the
wire is loose and then the heat builds up more. This can cause a fire
or at least cause the outlet to fail. In my opinion, these backstab
holes should have been banned long ago.

Mamba ) said...

Call me curious, but just why is using the holes such a bad idea? Seems
pretty straightforward and idiot-proof, assuming the wire fits ;-)

The holes on a spec grade device (or on GFCI outlets) are FINE to use.
As others have mentioned, you have to tighten the screw, so the wire is
squeezed between two flat plates of metal.

The ones on cheaper devices are the problem. The connection is made by
a pair of pieces of metal that "bite" into the wire and hold in a ratchet
fashion. The "bite" weakens the wire a bit, and when you move it a bit
to stuff the device into the box with the wiring behind it, the wire gets
weakened a bit more.

--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"I really think Canada should get over to Iraq as quickly as possible"
- Paul Martin - April 30, 2003
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid"


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:54:15 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:37:33 -0800, "Mamba" wrote:

I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I wired
it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I stripped
the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the wire appeared
to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI outlet. In other
words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't "catch". I realize I
could have used the screw attachments, but decided against it, thinking
there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

I pulled out a standard outlet and the wires fit as expected. Still
wouldn't mind using the GFI if I can figure out why it didn't work right.
Can somebody set me straight?

Tnx
Gary



Every GFI I have ever used has holes on the back that clamp the wire
when you tighten the screws. You dont wrap the wire on the screws
like a standard outlet. Strip wire as shown in device or
instructions. Stick it in the hole according to the color code.

And don't confuse the LINE and LOAD terminals.

Tighten the screws. You're done.....
These are some of the easiest devices to wire.

I've installed a few older GFCIs that required you yo wrap the wire
around the screws, The new ones do make that a lot easier.
--
47 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Nov 8, 8:40 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The old "back stab" outlets aren't used any more. They used to have some
metal teeth that grabbed the wire. Now days, you slip the wire in, and
tighten the screw on the side.

It's also fine to loop the wire around the screw, and tighten that way.

I've never seen a Romex wire gauge (tool for measuring). I mostly just read
the packaging to determine the gage (size) of the wire. Where did you find a
Romex gauge?

The outlet did come with instructions, right?

--

I'm Christopher A. Young;
and, I approved this message.
.

"Mamba" wrote in message

...
I added a new outlet in my basement this past weekend. I ganged it off an
existing 15 amp circuit and put the outlet below the light switch. I wired
it with 14/2 Romex.

I had intended to use a 15 amp GFI outlet, since I may be using long
extension cords from this outlet for possible outdoor uses. When I stripped
the final 1/2" or so off the Hot and Neutral, I found that the wire appeared
to be too "skinny" to connect into the holes in the GFI outlet. In other
words, the wire bottomed out in the hole but didn't "catch". I realize I
could have used the screw attachments, but decided against it, thinking
there might be an incompatibility somehwere.

I pulled out a standard outlet and the wires fit as expected. Still
wouldn't mind using the GFI if I can figure out why it didn't work right.
Can somebody set me straight?

Tnx
Gary

"Where did you find a Romex gauge?"

Where did he say he found a Romex gauge?

Mamba wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:37:33 -0800, "Mamba" wrote:

Jeff was on it. GFCIs use a hole in the back but you still have to
tighten the screw. It is a clamp plate. The good side is you can use
both holes so you can have 2 wires in each terminal.


OK, thanks all. I was under the mistaken impression that the push-holes
were the desired usage when available. Guess I have a few other outlets I
should re-do.

Call me curious, but just why is using the holes such a bad idea? Seems
pretty straightforward and idiot-proof, assuming the wire fits ;-)



Similar to a woman's "cunny hole" the parts inside those backstab
fastener holes get looser as they age. G

Jeff (Whose dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste.)

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.