Since I'm faced with the strong prospect of replacing my failing water
heater I'm curious to learn what others think of the tankless variety
compared to the contemporary water heater tanks. Single homeowner not
having to deal with others showering, etc. Might be inclined to use the
shower while a clothes or dishwasher were operating though.

Although I'm leaning towards gas fired, electric could be considered as
an option if cost effective.

Gas fired water heaters now offer a proportional
control which regulates the gas flow in proportion
to the hot water demand. these are economical and
can compensate for varying demand.
"Jim" wrote in message
...
Since I'm faced with the strong prospect of replacing my failing water
heater I'm curious to learn what others think of the tankless variety
compared to the contemporary water heater tanks. Single homeowner not
having to deal with others showering, etc. Might be inclined to use the
shower while a clothes or dishwasher were operating though.

Although I'm leaning towards gas fired, electric could be considered as
an option if cost effective.

On Sep 7, 5:35 pm, "Telstra" wrote:
Gas fired water heaters now offer a proportional
control which regulates the gas flow in proportion
to the hot water demand. these are economical and
can compensate for varying demand."Jim" wrote in message

...



Since I'm faced with the strong prospect of replacing my failing water
heater I'm curious to learn what others think of the tankless variety
compared to the contemporary water heater tanks. Single homeowner not
having to deal with others showering, etc. Might be inclined to use the
shower while a clothes or dishwasher were operating though.

Although I'm leaning towards gas fired, electric could be considered as
an option if cost effective.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A single user can easily save 20-40% with Ng tankless, i do , I have a
Bosch. Takagi, Rinnai and Bosch are good brands. The large Bosch is
made by Takagi. The only drawback and you learn to live with it is at
under 1/2 gal flow it wont kick on. Tankless are great, your negative
responses will be from non users that still think tanks are the best.
Tankless dont loose efficiency every year as tank do, from sedament
buildup. On a 500$ Bosch I am getting a 4 yr payback, and that is at
gas prices 4 yrs ago.

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:17:19 -0400, Jim wrote:

Since I'm faced with the strong prospect of replacing my failing water
heater I'm curious to learn what others think of the tankless variety
compared to the contemporary water heater tanks. Single homeowner not
having to deal with others showering, etc. Might be inclined to use the
shower while a clothes or dishwasher were operating though.

Although I'm leaning towards gas fired, electric could be considered as
an option if cost effective.

From what I've read here tankless heaters aren't held in high regards.


If the unit is installed by hacks, that's normally the case.

However, tankless heaters (if sized and installed properly) will offer the
OP a very reasonable operational cost.

Jim wrote:
Since I'm faced with the strong prospect of replacing my failing water
heater I'm curious to learn what others think of the tankless variety
compared to the contemporary water heater tanks. Single homeowner not
having to deal with others showering, etc. Might be inclined to use the
shower while a clothes or dishwasher were operating though.

Although I'm leaning towards gas fired, electric could be considered as
an option if cost effective.


I'm getting ready to install a Bosch gas fired tankless
heater in a small beauty shop. It's rated at 4.3 gal
per min. The other unit I installed was an electric
unit and the problem you have to look out for is the
flow rate. If you want the kind of hot water flow
you'd get from a standard tank type heater, you will
have to get a very high capacity tankless heater.
For high capacity, the gas unit would be the way to
go. A high capacity electric unit requires a lot of
power. The electric unit I installed was a two element
unit that required a separate 2 pole 40amp breaker
for each heater element/tank (about the size of a big
soft drink cup). The larger electric heaters require
more than a 100amp supply, ie expensive. If you have
natural gas you only need a 3/4" supply line with the
proper capacity and of course the correct vent and air
supply for combustion. I will post my results.

[8~{} Uncle Monster

On Sep 7, 9:21 pm, Uncle Monster wrote:
Jim wrote:
Since I'm faced with the strong prospect of replacing my failing water
heater I'm curious to learn what others think of the tankless variety
compared to the contemporary water heater tanks. Single homeowner not
having to deal with others showering, etc. Might be inclined to use the
shower while a clothes or dishwasher were operating though.

Although I'm leaning towards gas fired, electric could be considered as
an option if cost effective.

I'm getting ready to install a Bosch gas fired tankless
heater in a small beauty shop. It's rated at 4.3 gal
per min. The other unit I installed was an electric
unit and the problem you have to look out for is the
flow rate. If you want the kind of hot water flow
you'd get from a standard tank type heater, you will
have to get a very high capacity tankless heater.
For high capacity, the gas unit would be the way to
go. A high capacity electric unit requires a lot of
power. The electric unit I installed was a two element
unit that required a separate 2 pole 40amp breaker
for each heater element/tank (about the size of a big
soft drink cup). The larger electric heaters require
more than a 100amp supply, ie expensive. If you have
natural gas you only need a 3/4" supply line with the
proper capacity and of course the correct vent and air
supply for combustion. I will post my results.

[8~{} Uncle Monster

From my own experience the extra cost and the power vent exhaust unit
was not worth it stayed with My 60 electric and do just fine halve the
cost of the gas unit in these parts and no hole in my wall.Also have
friends who wern't to happy with thiers not enough output to keep up
with demand shower and tap or washer all at once.

jim wrote:
On Sep 7, 9:21 pm, Uncle Monster wrote:
Jim wrote:
Since I'm faced with the strong prospect of replacing my failing water
heater I'm curious to learn what others think of the tankless variety
compared to the contemporary water heater tanks. Single homeowner not
having to deal with others showering, etc. Might be inclined to use the
shower while a clothes or dishwasher were operating though.
Although I'm leaning towards gas fired, electric could be considered as
an option if cost effective.
I'm getting ready to install a Bosch gas fired tankless
heater in a small beauty shop. It's rated at 4.3 gal
per min. The other unit I installed was an electric
unit and the problem you have to look out for is the
flow rate. If you want the kind of hot water flow
you'd get from a standard tank type heater, you will
have to get a very high capacity tankless heater.
For high capacity, the gas unit would be the way to
go. A high capacity electric unit requires a lot of
power. The electric unit I installed was a two element
unit that required a separate 2 pole 40amp breaker
for each heater element/tank (about the size of a big
soft drink cup). The larger electric heaters require
more than a 100amp supply, ie expensive. If you have
natural gas you only need a 3/4" supply line with the
proper capacity and of course the correct vent and air
supply for combustion. I will post my results.

[8~{} Uncle Monster

From my own experience the extra cost and the power vent exhaust unit
was not worth it stayed with My 60 electric and do just fine halve the
cost of the gas unit in these parts and no hole in my wall.Also have
friends who wern't to happy with thiers not enough output to keep up
with demand shower and tap or washer all at once.


The gas unit that I'm readying to install is
going to replace an existing gas full sized
tank unit that already has a 5" vent. To put
an electric tankless water in the same place
would require a complete new electrical service.
A HO lot O money. The Bosch heater I'm installing
has no power vent or an electrical connection.

[8~{} Uncle Monster

you need large supply lines for gas tankless, and do check your
miinimum wanter water temperature, often incoming water can be very
cold.

tankless rarely save much because of their high initial cost, service
requirements, you need local service tech, and the warranty is never
more than 10 years.

newer regular tanks are foam insulated with nearly no standby losses
and very reliable requiring little or no service

if a gas tankless using electricity a power outage means no hot water
at all.........

standard tanks have enough hot water for at least a couple showers..

if you desire endless hot water get a 50 or 75 gallon regular high BTU
TANK. 75,000 BTU IS OVER TWICE a regulat 30K btu tank

regular tanks are pretty cheap tankless cost a fortune and
manufacturers require pro install for valid warranty...

"Clark" wrote in message
...

Perhaps, perhaps not. Many factors including water quality, fuel
availability


Yeah, I forgot that most people don't have electricity to their homes,
Idiot!

On Sep 8, 1:19 am, " wrote:
you need large supply lines for gas tankless, and do check your
miinimum wanter water temperature, often incoming water can be very
cold.

tankless rarely save much because of their high initial cost, service
requirements, you need local service tech, and the warranty is never
more than 10 years.

newer regular tanks are foam insulated with nearly no standby losses
and very reliable requiring little or no service

if a gas tankless using electricity a power outage means no hot water
at all.........

standard tanks have enough hot water for at least a couple showers..

if you desire endless hot water get a 50 or 75 gallon regular high BTU
TANK. 75,000 BTU IS OVER TWICE a regulat 30K btu tank

regular tanks are pretty cheap tankless cost a fortune and
manufacturers require pro install for valid warranty...


Like most things, there are pros and cons. The biggest pro, IMO, is
the fact that with a correctly sized gas tankless you have unlimited
hot water. And you do save on energy by eliminating standby loss.

The negatives are, for any reasonable whole house use it has to be
gas, as electric would require the entire typical service capacity.
And even with gas, you may need to upgrade the supply lines to meet
the demands, as opposed to just dropping in a replacement std unit.
That combined with the cost of the unit means that it can take a long
time to recover the higher upfront cost.

You just have to decide what is important to you, how long you expect
to live there, etc.

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Here's the problem with your post...

You're clueless and ignorant.

"Uncle Monster" wrote in message
...


The electric unit I installed was a two element
unit that required a separate 2 pole 40amp breaker
for each heater element/tank (about the size of a big
soft drink cup). The larger electric heaters require
more than a 100amp supply, ie expensive.


How's the operational cost any more expensive than a traditional electric
water heater?

A: It's not.

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Clark" wrote in message
...


Here's the problem with your post...

You're clueless and ignorant.

Whatever. But he's right.

"Clark" wrote in message
...

I'm clueless and ignorant


Finally, an accurate post.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
:


"Clark" wrote in message
...

I'm clueless and ignorant


Finally, an accurate post.



Why thank you.


No problem, asshole.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:6588c$46e38680$9440c41e$30075
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
:


"Clark" wrote in message
...

I'm clueless and ignorant


Finally, an inaccurate post.



Why thank you.


No problem, asshole!

Posted by: The Genius

Nice way to sign your posts. That name really fits you.


I already knew that!

Thanks to all who replied. Opted to replace the failing heater with a
similar unit. Looking at the tankless variety I could not see where the
higher initial costs would be offset by efficiency's in any reasonable time.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Thanks to all who replied. Opted to replace the failing heater with a
similar unit. Looking at the tankless variety I could not see where the
higher initial costs would be offset by efficiency's in any reasonable
time.


Maybe so; maybe no.

If someone is home most of the time and hot water is used duirng much of the
time or you routinely shut down the water heater when you intend to be gone
for a day then at present prices (including installation -- the demand water
heaters require 2 to 4 times the peak power of "conventional" heaters) they
are hard to justify.

The conventional heaters are just about dirt simple and use decades old
technolocy. The demand heaters have electronics which might be damaged by
power surges, etc.

On Sep 9, 1:21?pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message

...

Thanks to all who replied. Opted to replace the failing heater with a
similar unit. Looking at the tankless variety I could not see where the
higher initial costs would be offset by efficiency's in any reasonable
time.

Maybe so; maybe no.

If someone is home most of the time and hot water is used duirng much of the
time or you routinely shut down the water heater when you intend to be gone
for a day then at present prices (including installation -- the demand water
heaters require 2 to 4 times the peak power of "conventional" heaters) they
are hard to justify.

The conventional heaters are just about dirt simple and use decades old
technolocy. The demand heaters have electronics which might be damaged by
power surges, etc.

newer tanks have low standby loses, and heat lost too interior heated
spaces really isnt lost in the winter, since it helps heat your home.
although in the summer it can add to AC loads a little.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:86ab1$46e38cd6$9440c41e$19210
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:6588c$46e38680$9440c41e$30075
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in
:


"Clark" wrote in message
...

I'm clueless and ignorant


Finally, an inaccurate post.



Why thank you.


No problem, asshole

Posted by: The Genius

Nice way to sign your posts. That name really fits you.


I already knew that!

Of course you knew that, you just hadn't admitted it in public.


Most competent people know that I'm a genius.
I normally don't sign my posts.
However, sometimes, I can't help but to give you a clue.

Posted by: The Genius

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Clark has sent me an e-mail asking me to tell everyone I know that he's
completely ignorant.

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Retard

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Retard

A tankless an cost more to operate its very simple.

take a teenager add never ending hot water, water use and heating fuel
along with sewer can increase in that intersting combo.

Some gas tankless require electricity for control and venting. A power
failure means no hot water at all

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Retard

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Retard

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Retard

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Retard

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Retard

On Sep 13, 2:08?pm, Clark wrote:
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:ab1ec$46e97595$9440c41e$26995
@STARBAND.NET:



"Clark" wrote in message
.. .

Retard

I know you are but what am I?

Maybe when you sober up you'll come back and read your own post. Pretty
silly there drunken, dancing, monkey boi. I post and you dance. It never
fails.

--
---
there should be a "sig" here

would all of you please knock it off. this board used to be a friendly
helpful place, this squabbling accomplishes nothing.....

"Clark" wrote in message
...

Retard

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Retard

"Clark" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:20f0a$46e9f688$9440c41e$30776
@STARBAND.NET:


"Clark" wrote in message
...


Retard

I know but what am I?


You're a retard for the upteen time...
Geez, you're one slow sonofabitch!

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:51:19 -0400, Meat Plow
wrote:

:On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:17:19 -0400, Jim wrote:
:
: Since I'm faced with the strong prospect of replacing my failing water
: heater I'm curious to learn what others think of the tankless variety
: compared to the contemporary water heater tanks. Single homeowner not
: having to deal with others showering, etc. Might be inclined to use the
: shower while a clothes or dishwasher were operating though.
:
: Although I'm leaning towards gas fired, electric could be considered as
: an option if cost effective.
:
:From what I've read here tankless heaters aren't held in high regards.

I have a tankless, but I didn't have to pay for it. If it were on my
dime I would have installed (personally) another gas powered tank,
probably 40 gallons like the last. I'm also a single homeowner, in a
similar circumstance.

I just don't see the benefit of spending so much more money. Besides, I
don't like the fact that every time I turn on some hot water, the fan
goes on in the unit. I can hear it, and it IS annoying. I find myself
not using the hot water at all when I can get along with using just
cold. Honestly, I don't recommend them. At low flow rates, the
temperature is generally a LOT hotter than it's supposed to be. I have
it set to 110 or 115 when taking a shower, at 100 (the lowest setting)
otherwise (I have the remote control). It comes out 120+ at low flow
rates. I called their support and was told this is normal.

Dan

On Sep 13, 7:21 pm, " wrote:
On Sep 13, 2:08?pm, Clark wrote:





kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:ab1ec$46e97595$9440c41e$26995
@STARBAND.NET:

"Clark" wrote in message
.. .

Retard

I know you are but what am I?

Maybe when you sober up you'll come back and read your own post. Pretty
silly there drunken, dancing, monkey boi. I post and you dance. It never
fails.

--
---
there should be a "sig" here

would all of you please knock it off. this board used to be a friendly
helpful place, this squabbling accomplishes nothing.....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree; pathetic is it not? Large egos accompanied by small minds, no
doubt!
BTW thanks for all the helpful stuff that DOES appear here.

on 9/13/2007 5:21 PM said the following:
On Sep 13, 2:08?pm, Clark wrote:

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:ab1ec$46e97595$9440c41e$26995
@STARBAND.NET:




"Clark" wrote in message
...

Retard

I know you are but what am I?

Maybe when you sober up you'll come back and read your own post. Pretty
silly there drunken, dancing, monkey boi. I post and you dance. It never
fails.

--
---
there should be a "sig" here


would all of you please knock it off. this board used to be a friendly
helpful place, this squabbling accomplishes nothing.....



All that need be done is to killfile the antagonists. If no more
pertinent responses to the message are being posted, killfile the
subject too. That way, you won't see the messages being responded to by
anyone..

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Clark" wrote in message
...

You're a retard for the upteen time...
Geez, you're one slow sonofabitch!

"Clark" wrote in message
...


You're a retard for the upteen time...
Geez, you're one slow sonofabitch!

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Putz...

"Clark" wrote in message
...


Putz