willshak wrote:

snip
Sorry, my experience is different. During Hurricane Floyd in Sept. 1999,
we lost power for 72 hours. I hooked up my 5500 watt generator and
everything in the house worked... except the cable TV (TWC). During the
last two days, we were watching movies on VHS and DVD. The cable
substation is about 10 miles from me. The cable TV, nor the cable
broadband, did not come back on until the electric power came back on.
We did not have VoIP, but the telephone worked. It is one reason why I
don't want VoIP.

My longest power outage was about 39 hours, caused by an ice storm.
When the batteries on the cable system ran down I lost my cable. I
gave them a call and they brought a generator out for the cable plant.
I did have to call them a couple of times when it ran out of gas. When
they started offering phone service, they installed automatic NG
generators to prevent outages. BTW, I am on Cox cable.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

willshak wrote:

on 8/26/2007 9:48 PM Pete C. said the following:
willshak wrote:

on 8/26/2007 7:15 PM Pete C. said the following:

DerbyDad03 wrote:


On Aug 26, 12:34 pm, "Pete C." wrote:


DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Aug 26, 9:08 am, Jim Redelfs wrote:


In article ,

Jethro wrote:


Do all of your corded phones plug into your house electrical system?


As I tried to say - no. Two phones are 'corded'. That is - they plug
directly into bedroom wall outlets (phone outlets). So I figure they
do not depend on 'house electricity' at all.


Those are known as "line powered" sets.

It still amazes me when I encounter a household with NO line-powered (corded)
telephones. I inform them that it is prudent to have at least ONE such phone
on hand in the event of a power failure.

More and more folks are depending solely on cordless telephony and wireless
(cell) phones. I am still unconvinced that the "cell" phone network(s) is AS
reliable as the public switched (wired) network, much less MORE reliable,
particularly in the aftermath of a genuine disaster.

As wireless telephony continues to proliferate, is capacity is increased.
However, a disaster is hopefully confined to a small(er) area. In such an
event, the few "cell" sites serving that area would likely be overwhelmed.
Remember: Such service is wireless ONLY until it reaches the nearest tower,
where it rides on land lines and the public switched network.
--



JR Writes:

- It still amazes me when I encounter a household with NO line-powered
(corded) telephones.

While I understand your amazment, have you tempered that with the
extra cost for those of us who subscribe to the "all-in-one" services
of a cable company?

I don't believe that I can have a line-powered phone unless I re-
subscribe with my telco and get a separate number. Since my modem is
dependent on power, I loose all of my phones, corded or not, during a
power outage. I would need to pay the full cost of a residential phone
service for the rare occasions when the power goes out.

I'm already paying for the cable company's phone service and a couple
of cell phones (which can be charged up/powered by my car or portable
jumpstart unit) so I'm not sure that paying for a line-powered backup
system makes economic sense.


Considering the low power consumption of your cable phone router, a $75
(if that) UPS would keep it running for at least as long as the cable
companies backup power for their line gear. I have a fairly large UPS
(1420VA) that happily powers my cable modem, router, network switch and
web/mail/vru/storage server for over an hour and a half. I also have two
generators that I can bring online if needed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


- Considering the low power consumption of your cable phone router, a
$75
- (if that) UPS would keep it running for at least as long as the
cable
- companies backup power for their line gear.

Very true, but what does that have to do with JR's amazement when he
encounters "a household with NO line-powered (corded) telephones"?


It's a solution for your cable based phones and others cordless phones.


That's assuming that the power outage is localized to the home owner's
area. If the cable transmission company has suffered a power loss and
has no generator backup, then a home owner's backup power supply is useless.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


The cable companies do have backup power. The line power supplies have
battery backup and for extended outages they will bring out a small
Honda generator and chain it at the base of the pole. I've never lost my
cable feed here during a power failure.


Sorry, my experience is different. During Hurricane Floyd in Sept. 1999,
we lost power for 72 hours. I hooked up my 5500 watt generator and
everything in the house worked... except the cable TV (TWC). During the
last two days, we were watching movies on VHS and DVD. The cable
substation is about 10 miles from me. The cable TV, nor the cable
broadband, did not come back on until the electric power came back on.
We did not have VoIP, but the telephone worked. It is one reason why I
don't want VoIP.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Having worked for a cable company some years ago, I know what we had on
our plant. Other operators may not be as good, also there is always the
potential that an event like a hurricane or a vehicle crashing into a
pole could no only take out power, but damage the cable lines
themselves. Nothing is ever 100%.

Jim Rusling wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

snip
The cable companies do have backup power. The line power supplies have
battery backup and for extended outages they will bring out a small
Honda generator and chain it at the base of the pole. I've never lost my
cable feed here during a power failure.

In the past, I have had to call them to come out and put more gas in
the generator. Now they have automatic NG generators permanently
installed.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

Yep, backup systems are evolving, as is remote monitoring. When I worked
at a cable company the only way we knew about an outage was from
customer reports (or police / fire for accident caused outages). Around
the time I left they were doing a rebuild / upgrade which among other
improvements brought remote monitoring of all the line gear. It still
wouldn't tell you if a tree took out an individual customer's drop, but
any line gear failures or damage would give alarms. Of course if you're
in tornado alley, your service will still be out a good while if a
tornado rips up half a mile of poles.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
willshak wrote:

(snip)

The cable companies do have backup power. The line power supplies have
battery backup and for extended outages they will bring out a small
Honda generator and chain it at the base of the pole. I've never lost my
cable feed here during a power failure.

Chuckle. I bet they have lost several generators, however. Bolt cutters are
cheap.

Unless they have buried service in your area, most cable outages are due to
tree limbs and/or ice taking lines down.

This is what rabbit ears are for, folks. Cable TV is nice-to-have, not a
survival neccessity. If you get your phone via the cable TV, well, you
shoulda read the fine print. The tradeoff for lower cost is lower
reliability. If I had cable, and went with cable phone, I'd at least have a
prepaid semi-disposable cell as a backup.

Were you the poster with all the UPS boxes and the generator? Just how were
you verifying cable stayed on during the power outage?
aem sends...

In article .com,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

- It still amazes me when I encounter a household with
NO line-powered corded) telephones.

While I understand your amazment, have you tempered that with the
extra cost for those of us who subscribe to the "all-in-one" services
of a cable company?

Yours is a legitimate issue. I suppose it is no different than subscribing to
the services of a single electric power utility - upon which virtually all of
us rely. Subscribing to TWO such feeds, even if a second were available,
would be cost prohibitive.

Coaxial cable-based telephone networks employ a vastly different and, in some
ways, improved technology whereby everything is delivered via one coaxial
cable. There is an "RT" (voice port) on the outside of most subscribers'
premises. It is there that the digital signal is converted to analog to
interface with your legacy telephone equipment. The current required to power
these individual terminals is delivered over the same coax from the
neighborhood's interface/node/whatever. It is this power (and the conversion
at the back of the house) that creates the dialtone heard when going off-hook
and the ringing current when a call is received. If you listen carefully at
this RT on the back of the house when receiving a call, you'll hear a small
relay clicking on-and-off, interrupting the ringing current.

I don't believe that I can have a line-powered phone unless I re-
subscribe with my telco and get a separate number. Since my modem is
dependent on power, I loose all of my phones, corded or not, during a
power outage.

This is not necessarily a given. If the CATV-based system has prompt standby
power, your dialtone could easily remain virtually uninterrupted or restore
much more promptly than the failed grid, which would empower "corded" phones
while cordless sets/systems would remain silent without their required grid
power.

I'm already paying for the cable company's phone service and a couple
of cell phones (which can be charged up/powered by my car or portable
jumpstart unit) so I'm not sure that paying for a line-powered backup
system makes economic sense.

Agreed. However, a POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) phone, AKA a "corded"
phone, is a valuable tool to use at the interface for trouble shooting.
Regardless of who or what is providing your telephone service, a corded phone
might work when the lights go out. Keeping a CheapieChirpertm phone in a
drawer is cheap insurance.
--

JR

In article , "Pete C."
wrote:

Considering the low power consumption of your cable phone router, a $75
(if that) UPS would keep it running for at least as long as the cable
companies backup power for their line gear. I have a fairly large UPS
(1420VA) that happily powers my cable modem, router, network switch and
web/mail/vru/storage server for over an hour and a half. I also have two
generators that I can bring online if needed.

I believe that neither a subscriber-provided UPS or genset can be used to
restore power to a cable-based phone system as it is the current applied to
the neighborhood's coaxial network that powers the voice port mounted on each
subscribers' home.

Nevertheless, yours is a classic example of our decreasing tolerance for
service outages and our improving lifestyle that places such things as a
standby generator within reach of more and more mere mortals.

In the case of a home-based VOIP system (Voice Over Internet Protocol) during
a grid power failure, a UPS then generator could power the system in the home.
Of course, the VOIP system relies on working input from the broadband
provider. If the neighborhood system, which provides the needed data flow to
a VOIP system, is down, the VOIP user has no "dial tone".
--

JR

In article ,
willshak wrote:

If the cable transmission company has suffered a power loss and has
no generator backup, then a home owner's backup power supply is useless.

Bingo.
--

JR

In article ,
willshak wrote:

my experience is different. During Hurricane Floyd in Sept. 1999,
we lost power for 72 hours. I hooked up my 5500 watt generator and
everything in the house worked... except the cable TV (TWC). During the
last two days, we were watching movies on VHS and DVD. The cable
substation is about 10 miles from me. The cable TV, nor the cable
broadband, did not come back on until the electric power came back on.
We did not have VoIP, but the telephone worked. It is one reason why I
don't want VoIP.

I guess your voice service is provided via copper pair.
--

JR

"Pete C." wrote:

Jim Rusling wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

snip
The cable companies do have backup power. The line power supplies have
battery backup and for extended outages they will bring out a small
Honda generator and chain it at the base of the pole. I've never lost my
cable feed here during a power failure.

In the past, I have had to call them to come out and put more gas in
the generator. Now they have automatic NG generators permanently
installed.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

Yep, backup systems are evolving, as is remote monitoring. When I worked
at a cable company the only way we knew about an outage was from
customer reports (or police / fire for accident caused outages). Around
the time I left they were doing a rebuild / upgrade which among other
improvements brought remote monitoring of all the line gear. It still
wouldn't tell you if a tree took out an individual customer's drop, but
any line gear failures or damage would give alarms. Of course if you're
in tornado alley, your service will still be out a good while if a
tornado rips up half a mile of poles.

When we had a major grass fire a year and a half ago, it damaged some
of the cable from the heat and dropped about 5 poles. The cable and
power went out about 4:00 PM. The electric company had the poles and
the electricity back up about 9:00 PM. Cox, the cable company, had
service restored about 9:30 PM. We did have an outage the next day
for a couple of hours when they were replacing additional cable and
electronics that could have been damaged from the heat. Those cable
line guys were moving right behind the electric company people
stringing new cable. I was really surprised just how quickly both
companies were able to respond.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

In article ,
Jim Rusling wrote:

My longest power outage was about 39 hours, caused by an ice storm.
When the batteries on the cable system ran down I lost my cable. I
gave them a call and they brought a generator out for the cable plant.
I did have to call them a couple of times when it ran out of gas. When
they started offering phone service, they installed automatic NG
generators to prevent outages.

There it is: Protacted land line/voice outages should be increasingly rare.
--

JR

In article ,
Jethro wrote:

So I still do not know why I and some of my neighbors (but not all)
lose all dial tones during a true power outage.

The next time an outage occurs, poll your neighbors and ask the NAME of their
voice provider. I predict that those WITHOUT service are with the SAME
provider while those WITH service use the services from another
provider/network.
--

JR

"aemeijers" wrote:


"Pete C." wrote in message
...
willshak wrote:

(snip)

The cable companies do have backup power. The line power supplies have
battery backup and for extended outages they will bring out a small
Honda generator and chain it at the base of the pole. I've never lost my
cable feed here during a power failure.

Chuckle. I bet they have lost several generators, however. Bolt cutters are
cheap.

Unless they have buried service in your area, most cable outages are due to
tree limbs and/or ice taking lines down.

This is what rabbit ears are for, folks. Cable TV is nice-to-have, not a
survival neccessity. If you get your phone via the cable TV, well, you
shoulda read the fine print. The tradeoff for lower cost is lower
reliability. If I had cable, and went with cable phone, I'd at least have a
prepaid semi-disposable cell as a backup.

Were you the poster with all the UPS boxes and the generator? Just how were
you verifying cable stayed on during the power outage?
aem sends...

I have found my phone to be a lot more reliable since I moved it to
cable. See my other post about the grass fire. All my cable services
were back up in about 5 1/2 hours. The phone company was still trying
to get people back up 4 days later and their lines were underground
not overhead.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

In article , dpb wrote:

Obviously there's a common supply somewhere under some of these outage
conditions that is taking the telco's supply, too. Whether that would
be a regulatory violation is doubtful in my mind, but guess could always
ask his State authority...

As long as the utility can demonstrate a reasonable level of ongoing
maintenance to their infrastructure and timely response to trouble reports,
they are probably not penalized for the occasional grid failure over which
they have no control. Regardless, this is a service industry just like all
the others: The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Given what we pay for such
services, the consumer should not tolerate poor service. It's pretty
surprising those that do, however.

Real example: Prior to replacing the grandfathered protector assembly with a
new SNI, and upon initial inspection discovering that there were APPARENTLY
two working services (main & fax/computer line), I asked the customer if she
had TWO lines. Her reply: Yes, but they have never been able to USE the
second line!

Somewhat surprised, I asked how long they had had the service. About six
months, she said. "Did you ever report the trouble?" I queried. "I've never
gotten around to it" was her reply.

It was all I could do to restrain my sarcasm with my follow-up: "Oh,
THANK-YOU, ma'am! I wish EVERYONE would pay for out service but not insist on
using it. It would make my job MUCH easier!"
--

JR

In article , dpb wrote:

My first bet of any outcome will be the telco is within the letter of
any pertinent regulation...

Of that you can be sure. The only public service industry older than
telephony is the railroad. They "invented" lawyers. They have their sh*t
together in the regulatory arena like no other.
--

JR

In article ,
mm wrote:

It took 2 1/2 years before they replaced the pole.

I had called a total of 4 times.

I wouldn't have kept calling them if they had acknowledged any of my
calls and told me it could take years. I could live with that. The
phone worked fine, although I did suspect that my low dial-up speeds
were because of it, but I'm convinced now that they weren't.

If your service is working, albeit submerged at times and laying on the ground
at other times, they do not view the issue as out-of-service. If your
service, despite the crappy conditions you list, is working particularly well,
your issue is not even statused as "service affecting". Translation: Don't
hold your breath. That THEIR property is flapping in the breeze or submerged
is THEIR problem, not yours, as long as you're getting what you're paying for.

Wotta business model. sigh
--

JR

In article ,
Jethro wrote:

I am thinking of changing phone service to cable. I just don't know how
that would adapt to my present Verizon system, or if it would do me
any good.

If your current service is good, or even just adequate, switching providers
would be for SAVINGS alone. Even then, after the switch-over inticements are
used up (1/2-price for 6 months, etc), the price is rarely much different.
Lately, the incumbent telco is occasionally CHEAPER than the "new" dialtone
company. Ain't competition grand?
--

JR

In article fNnAi.450$hV.282@trnddc02, M Q
wrote:

Generally, the phone companies are not interested in fixing anything
unless service is actually out or there is some hazard for which they
could get sued. I have reported trees that had fallen over and
were held up by nothing more than the phone cable. They told me that
they would not do anything unless it came down.

Bingo.

I was dispatched to a rural home whose aerial "drop" ran through a
grove/thicket of scrub trees. The drop was stretched so tight that the
insulation had pulled away from the "p-clamp", exposing - and SHORTING - the
pair.

Knowing I would replace the drop anyway, I simply reached up and clipped the
taut drop. It snapped briskly back toward the thicket. A minute later there
was a loud crash back there. A ~30-foot, dead tree had been laying against
the old drop and, when the wire was cut, the tree fell.

BTW, no one was back there but it still made noise!
--

JR

on 8/26/2007 11:29 PM Jim Redelfs said the following:
In article ,
Jethro wrote:


I am thinking of changing phone service to cable. I just don't know how
that would adapt to my present Verizon system, or if it would do me
any good.


If your current service is good, or even just adequate, switching providers
would be for SAVINGS alone. Even then, after the switch-over inticements are
used up (1/2-price for 6 months, etc), the price is rarely much different.
Lately, the incumbent telco is occasionally CHEAPER than the "new" dialtone
company. Ain't competition grand?


A few months ago, when I was tired of paying exorbitant prices for my
telco phone service and thinking about VoIP, I decided to give the telco
one last chance. I called them and asked (rather facetiously) the
service rep who answered, "I'm paying too much for telephone service,
should I go with Vonage or Time Warner"? She dropped the monthly charges
by about a third and I didn't lose any of the extras I had been paying
for before.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Jim Rusling wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Jim Rusling wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

snip
The cable companies do have backup power. The line power supplies have
battery backup and for extended outages they will bring out a small
Honda generator and chain it at the base of the pole. I've never lost my
cable feed here during a power failure.

In the past, I have had to call them to come out and put more gas in
the generator. Now they have automatic NG generators permanently
installed.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

Yep, backup systems are evolving, as is remote monitoring. When I worked
at a cable company the only way we knew about an outage was from
customer reports (or police / fire for accident caused outages). Around
the time I left they were doing a rebuild / upgrade which among other
improvements brought remote monitoring of all the line gear. It still
wouldn't tell you if a tree took out an individual customer's drop, but
any line gear failures or damage would give alarms. Of course if you're
in tornado alley, your service will still be out a good while if a
tornado rips up half a mile of poles.

When we had a major grass fire a year and a half ago, it damaged some
of the cable from the heat and dropped about 5 poles. The cable and
power went out about 4:00 PM. The electric company had the poles and
the electricity back up about 9:00 PM. Cox, the cable company, had
service restored about 9:30 PM. We did have an outage the next day
for a couple of hours when they were replacing additional cable and
electronics that could have been damaged from the heat. Those cable
line guys were moving right behind the electric company people
stringing new cable. I was really surprised just how quickly both
companies were able to respond.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

A grass fire is probably one of the easier things to respond to since
unlike a tornado or hurricane it doesn't really leave a ton of debris in
the way that need to be cleared first.

aemeijers wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
willshak wrote:

(snip)

The cable companies do have backup power. The line power supplies have
battery backup and for extended outages they will bring out a small
Honda generator and chain it at the base of the pole. I've never lost my
cable feed here during a power failure.

Chuckle. I bet they have lost several generators, however. Bolt cutters are
cheap.

Unless they have buried service in your area, most cable outages are due to
tree limbs and/or ice taking lines down.

This is what rabbit ears are for, folks. Cable TV is nice-to-have, not a
survival neccessity. If you get your phone via the cable TV, well, you
shoulda read the fine print. The tradeoff for lower cost is lower
reliability. If I had cable, and went with cable phone, I'd at least have a
prepaid semi-disposable cell as a backup.

Were you the poster with all the UPS boxes and the generator? Just how were
you verifying cable stayed on during the power outage?
aem sends...

I have backup for my backup for my backup . I also work from home full
time and rely on my Internet connectivity, so when (most of) the lights
go out I am still online and working. I also have two land lines
(underground in this area) and dialup provides marginal backup for the
cable.

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article , "Pete C."
wrote:

Considering the low power consumption of your cable phone router, a $75
(if that) UPS would keep it running for at least as long as the cable
companies backup power for their line gear. I have a fairly large UPS
(1420VA) that happily powers my cable modem, router, network switch and
web/mail/vru/storage server for over an hour and a half. I also have two
generators that I can bring online if needed.

I believe that neither a subscriber-provided UPS or genset can be used to
restore power to a cable-based phone system as it is the current applied to
the neighborhood's coaxial network that powers the voice port mounted on each
subscribers' home.

Nevertheless, yours is a classic example of our decreasing tolerance for
service outages and our improving lifestyle that places such things as a
standby generator within reach of more and more mere mortals.

In the case of a home-based VOIP system (Voice Over Internet Protocol) during
a grid power failure, a UPS then generator could power the system in the home.
Of course, the VOIP system relies on working input from the broadband
provider. If the neighborhood system, which provides the needed data flow to
a VOIP system, is down, the VOIP user has no "dial tone".
--

JR

I haven't run across a cable company that doesn't have backup power. I'm
sure there is some crappy system without backup somewhere, but all I
have dealt with had reasonable backup. Now that they are in the voice
and data markets as well as video they are also taking backup even more
seriously.

On Aug 26, 10:52 pm, Jim Redelfs
wrote:
In article .com,

DerbyDad03 wrote:
- It still amazes me when I encounter a household with
NO line-powered corded) telephones.
While I understand your amazment, have you tempered that with the
extra cost for those of us who subscribe to the "all-in-one" services
of a cable company?

Yours is a legitimate issue. I suppose it is no different than subscribing to
the services of a single electric power utility - upon which virtually all of
us rely. Subscribing to TWO such feeds, even if a second were available,
would be cost prohibitive.

Coaxial cable-based telephone networks employ a vastly different and, in some
ways, improved technology whereby everything is delivered via one coaxial
cable. There is an "RT" (voice port) on the outside of most subscribers'
premises. It is there that the digital signal is converted to analog to
interface with your legacy telephone equipment. The current required to power
these individual terminals is delivered over the same coax from the
neighborhood's interface/node/whatever. It is this power (and the conversion
at the back of the house) that creates the dialtone heard when going off-hook
and the ringing current when a call is received. If you listen carefully at
this RT on the back of the house when receiving a call, you'll hear a small
relay clicking on-and-off, interrupting the ringing current.

You're making a generalization here that is not true. Some systems
may work this way, but many do not. For example, here in the NYC
area, the large cable network Cablevision, only supplies a VOIP box
that the customer plugs into the cable and AC supply anywhere inside
their home. If the power goes out, there is no cable feed powering
the box and you lose service.

Plus, many people are using third party VOIP phone services, like
Vonage. They are not even part of the cable or phone companies.
They send you a VOIP box that is also powered by the home AC.




I don't believe that I can have a line-powered phone unless I re-
subscribe with my telco and get a separate number. Since my modem is
dependent on power, I loose all of my phones, corded or not, during a
power outage.

This is not necessarily a given. If the CATV-based system has prompt standby
power, your dialtone could easily remain virtually uninterrupted or restore
much more promptly than the failed grid, which would empower "corded" phones
while cordless sets/systems would remain silent without their required grid
power.

I'm already paying for the cable company's phone service and a couple
of cell phones (which can be charged up/powered by my car or portable
jumpstart unit) so I'm not sure that paying for a line-powered backup
system makes economic sense.

Agreed. However, a POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) phone, AKA a "corded"
phone, is a valuable tool to use at the interface for trouble shooting.
Regardless of who or what is providing your telephone service, a corded phone
might work when the lights go out. Keeping a CheapieChirpertm phone in a
drawer is cheap insurance.
--

JR

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article .com,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

- It still amazes me when I encounter a household with
NO line-powered corded) telephones.

While I understand your amazment, have you tempered that with the
extra cost for those of us who subscribe to the "all-in-one" services
of a cable company?

Yours is a legitimate issue. I suppose it is no different than subscribing to
the services of a single electric power utility - upon which virtually all of
us rely. Subscribing to TWO such feeds, even if a second were available,
would be cost prohibitive.

Coaxial cable-based telephone networks employ a vastly different and, in some
ways, improved technology whereby everything is delivered via one coaxial
cable. There is an "RT" (voice port) on the outside of most subscribers'
premises. It is there that the digital signal is converted to analog to
interface with your legacy telephone equipment. The current required to power
these individual terminals is delivered over the same coax from the
neighborhood's interface/node/whatever. It is this power (and the conversion
at the back of the house) that creates the dialtone heard when going off-hook
and the ringing current when a call is received. If you listen carefully at
this RT on the back of the house when receiving a call, you'll hear a small
relay clicking on-and-off, interrupting the ringing current.

I don't believe that I can have a line-powered phone unless I re-
subscribe with my telco and get a separate number. Since my modem is
dependent on power, I loose all of my phones, corded or not, during a
power outage.

This is not necessarily a given. If the CATV-based system has prompt standby
power, your dialtone could easily remain virtually uninterrupted or restore
much more promptly than the failed grid, which would empower "corded" phones
while cordless sets/systems would remain silent without their required grid
power.

I'm already paying for the cable company's phone service and a couple
of cell phones (which can be charged up/powered by my car or portable
jumpstart unit) so I'm not sure that paying for a line-powered backup
system makes economic sense.

Agreed. However, a POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) phone, AKA a "corded"
phone, is a valuable tool to use at the interface for trouble shooting.
Regardless of who or what is providing your telephone service, a corded phone
might work when the lights go out. Keeping a CheapieChirpertm phone in a
drawer is cheap insurance.
--

JR

Traditional telephone service has historically been more reliable than
CATV service due to it's lack of active gear on the poles and remote
from the central office.

With traditional phone service each customer has their own wire pair all
the way back to the local telco central office switch so there isn't
anything but wire on the poles and the central offices have been built
to the old Bell Labs standards with substantial backup power.

CATV has always had active gear on the poles in the form of line
amplifiers and now fiber optic "nodes", so there has always been an
issue with needing to provide backup power at all those remote
locations.

The situation is rapidly changing now where growth of urban sprawl and
the need to provide data and video services to every customer has made
it necessary for the telcos to shift to the remote terminal model which
puts active gear in the field just like with the CATV system and
subjects them to the same remote backup power needs.

Basically the old notion of the telephones always working is going out
the window just as rapidly as the old notion of the cable never working.
In many areas where the telcos RT transition is in place, which also
correspond to areas where the cable operators are the most up to date,
both services are of comparable, reasonably high reliability.

willshak wrote:

on 8/26/2007 11:29 PM Jim Redelfs said the following:
In article ,
Jethro wrote:


I am thinking of changing phone service to cable. I just don't know how
that would adapt to my present Verizon system, or if it would do me
any good.


If your current service is good, or even just adequate, switching providers
would be for SAVINGS alone. Even then, after the switch-over inticements are
used up (1/2-price for 6 months, etc), the price is rarely much different.
Lately, the incumbent telco is occasionally CHEAPER than the "new" dialtone
company. Ain't competition grand?


A few months ago, when I was tired of paying exorbitant prices for my
telco phone service and thinking about VoIP, I decided to give the telco
one last chance. I called them and asked (rather facetiously) the
service rep who answered, "I'm paying too much for telephone service,
should I go with Vonage or Time Warner"? She dropped the monthly charges
by about a third and I didn't lose any of the extras I had been paying
for before.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Sometimes competition works It's also important to periodically audit
your current service vs. current offerings as you may find that there
are newer offerings that are less expensive and they don't automatically
shift you to those cheaper options.

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:12:11 GMT, M Q
wrote:

.

It took 2 1/2 years before they replaced the pole.

I had called a total of 4 times.

I wouldn't have kept calling them if they had acknowledged any of my
calls and told me it could take years. I could live with that. The
phone worked fine, although I did suspect that my low dial-up speeds
were because of it, but I'm convinced now that they weren't.

BTW, I'm convinced because my speeds went up quite high for a few
months while the cable was still on the ground and maybe even under
water.

Then later it went down again. I'm looking into highspeed.


Generally, the phone companies are not interested in fixing anything
unless service is actually out or there is some hazard for which they
could get sued. I have reported trees that had fallen over and
were held up by nothing more than the phone cable. They told me that
they would not do anything unless it came down.

At least they told you! Maybe it was on your property, but in my case
it was at the entrance to the n'hood a 200 x 80 foot stretch of grass
that is used by dogs and children. (I think everyone picks up after
their dog. )

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:26:28 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

In article ,
mm wrote:

It took 2 1/2 years before they replaced the pole.

I had called a total of 4 times.

I wouldn't have kept calling them if they had acknowledged any of my
calls and told me it could take years. I could live with that. The
phone worked fine, although I did suspect that my low dial-up speeds
were because of it, but I'm convinced now that they weren't.

If your service is working, albeit submerged at times and laying on the ground
at other times, they do not view the issue as out-of-service. If your
service, despite the crappy conditions you list, is working particularly well,
your issue is not even statused as "service affecting". Translation: Don't
hold your breath. That THEIR property is flapping in the breeze or submerged
is THEIR problem, not yours, as long as you're getting what you're paying for.

Wotta business model. sigh

LOL

Like I say, I could have lived with that, even been fine with it, but
they didn't tell me until I happened to see a truck out there checking
on it after my fourth call. This at least a year after I first called
and at least a year before they fixed it.

There are probably work orders still running around and every year or
two one comes to the front of the queue and they send someone out to
look at the problem, but he can't find it.

Maybe it's because it was semi-public** property and not my own lot.
That is, I think the apartment building nearby owns it, or the HOA,
but I don't.

In article om,
wrote:

You're making a generalization here that is not true. Some systems
may work this way, but many do not. For example, here in the NYC
area, the large cable network Cablevision, only supplies a VOIP box
that the customer plugs into the cable and AC supply anywhere inside
their home. If the power goes out, there is no cable feed powering
the box and you lose service.

I apologize. I recall encountering one, such arrangement. It took me by
surprise and took a while to figure out. What I described is what Cox is
doing in its Omaha service area. With the voice port mounted outside the
premise and, hopefully, near the incumbent telco entrance/interface, switching
networks is more convenient and serviceable than if the dialtone were
emanating from a modem/box behind a TV or computer some where inside the
premise.

Plus, many people are using third party VOIP phone services, like
Vonage. They are not even part of the cable or phone companies.

Where/how do they connect with the outside world to make VoIP work? Their
connectivity is coming from either a physical, land-based network OR
wireless/satellite provider.
--

JR

I think my problem is solved. I bit the bullet and went under my
house (crawl space) this PM, and found some 4" water!
Seems my pressure tank's pressure valve/gauge was acting like a water
pump, spewing water everywhere. Why this did not trip the breaker I
don't know! God knows how long that has been going on. I replaced
the valve/gauge, and evacuated most of the water with his sump pump,
It probably will take several days to dry out under there! Almost
immediately the phone buzzing stopped. Now the phones are all fine.
They must have been submerged.

Now I have to put all the phone face plates etc back in place, not to
mention all the furniture. Wife is talking divorce.

Thanks ALL!

Jethro

In article ,
Jethro wrote:

I think my problem is solved. I bit the bullet and went under my
house (crawl space) this PM, and found some 4" water!
Seems my pressure tank's pressure valve/gauge was acting like a water
pump, spewing water everywhere. Why this did not trip the breaker I
don't know!

That your water system did not trip a breaker is probably a GOOD thing from a
safety standpoint.

God knows how long that has been going on.

Did you hear the pump occasionally cycling in the middle of the night, when no
one was using the water?

I replaced the valve/gauge, and evacuated most of the water
with his sump pump, It probably will take several days to
dry out under there!

That's too bad. Get out the fans, I guess. (You couldn't GIVE me a house
without a basement based on maintenance accessibility and safety.)

Almostimmediately the phone buzzing stopped.
Now the phones are all fine. They must have been submerged.

If the phone cables were submerged, that means they were not attached properly
to the joists above. This is very poor technique. You may eventually have to
replace one or more of the cables anyway. They gradually succumb to operating
in a humid environment, even if they are not laying on the ground.

Moisture finds its way into the smallest defect in the outer sheath of the
cable. One inside the cable, it STAYS wet within that area of cable for a
long time, eventually destroying the cable at that location.

Now I have to put all the phone face plates etc back in place

Did you paint while they were off? grin

Wife is talking divorce.

Congratulations! bigger grin

Sell the place NOW while the phone cable still works. HA!
--

JR

Climb poles and dig holes
Have staplegun, will travel

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:22:23 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

In article ,
Jethro wrote:

I think my problem is solved. I bit the bullet and went under my
house (crawl space) this PM, and found some 4" water!
Seems my pressure tank's pressure valve/gauge was acting like a water
pump, spewing water everywhere. Why this did not trip the breaker I
don't know!

That your water system did not trip a breaker is probably a GOOD thing from a
safety standpoint.

The way I look at it, if it had tripped a breaker, I would not have
had any water (no pump) and would have looked for cause immediately.
As it was, I had no idea since I was getting water okay. The 110V for
the gauge/valve was taken from one side of the 220V line for the pump.
That may be why the 220V pump breaker did not trip.

God knows how long that has been going on.

Did you hear the pump occasionally cycling in the middle of the night, when no
one was using the water?

No - it is under the house, out of earshot.

I replaced the valve/gauge, and evacuated most of the water
with his sump pump, It probably will take several days to
dry out under there!

That's too bad. Get out the fans, I guess. (You couldn't GIVE me a house
without a basement based on maintenance accessibility and safety.)

I have to agree there.

Almostimmediately the phone buzzing stopped.
Now the phones are all fine. They must have been submerged.

If the phone cables were submerged, that means they were not attached properly
to the joists above. This is very poor technique. You may eventually have to
replace one or more of the cables anyway. They gradually succumb to operating
in a humid environment, even if they are not laying on the ground.

When it dries out, I certainly will look things over. Since I am
somewhat disabled, though, that is going to be a problem.

Moisture finds its way into the smallest defect in the outer sheath of the
cable. One inside the cable, it STAYS wet within that area of cable for a
long time, eventually destroying the cable at that location.

You had to tell me that!

Now I have to put all the phone face plates etc back in place

Did you paint while they were off? grin

No grin

Wife is talking divorce.

Congratulations! bigger grin

big bigger grin

Sell the place NOW while the phone cable still works. HA!

Now that's a thought, With housing market the way it is though, that
is not an option. My place is paid for!

Thanks for helps & thoughts.

Jethro

Jethro wrote:

Whenever I have a power outage, I also lose all of my phones - dial
tone and all. If some calls me, a recording says all circuits are
busy - which of course they are not. This has been happening for over
a year now - during which time we have had several outages.

This loss of phones is for all my phones, some of which are cordless,
and two of which are corded.

When power is restored, sure enough, phone service becomes restored
some 30 or so minutes later.

....
After all of this discussion, and even several posts from myself, my power
went out today, and with it my phone service. No dial tone,
but strangely DSL kept working. Sometime more than 5 minutes
but less than 30 minutes after power restoration, the phone service
comes back. In the mean time, I called Verizon and they were going
to send a technician out in two days.

I guess that I am off to fight with the phone company over this.
If need be, I will play the 911 card.