http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/200...ansion-of.html

The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/200...ansion-of.html


It's going to take a *long* time to tear down that stuff and turn this
back into America again, and most of that won't happen unless we
replace the current Executive Branch with one that's actually
committed to doing it. Most of the major candidates aren't talking
like that - certainly Hillary and Rudy and John Edwards and McCain and
Romney don't have a history of wanting to do that, and you're pretty
much down to Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul before you'd get to anybody
who'd talk about that kind of concept as a campaign strategy. Perhaps
if the Democrats not only win the White House but also increase their
control of the Senate and House they'll have some willingness to do
that after a couple of years.


http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/200...ansion-of.html

For now, though, Homeland Security Anonymous Spokescritters report
that Enhanced Terrorist Surveillance Program has been reporting
increased frequency of terrorist chatter saying "Booga Booga", so if
you're even suggesting that we decrease wiretapping then you're a
threat to national security


http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/200...ansion-of.html

wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's idea of national security is not
endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"

If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear. If a spook
at Langley wants to listen to me and my wife's phone let them. "What
kind of bread- white?" "No wheat""They only have multi grain" I doubt
the government has the resources to monitor every one.

On Aug 7, 10:52 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's idea of national security is not
endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:59:38 -0700, wrote:

If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear.

spoken like an abject, cringing slave, not a free american

the Founders must be spinning in their graves!

miss liberty

If a spook
at Langley wants to listen to me and my wife's phone let them. "What
kind of bread- white?" "No wheat""They only have multi grain" I doubt
the government has the resources to monitor every one.

is that the point? or do you understand "principle"????

On Aug 7, 10:52 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's

whose

idea of national security is not
endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"

miss liberty wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:59:38 -0700, wrote:

If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear.

spoken like an abject, cringing slave, not a free american

the Founders must be spinning in their graves!

miss liberty

The Bill of Rights is not a suicide pact, nor is it something to be
worshiped.

wrote in
ups.com:

If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear. If a spook
at Langley wants to listen to me and my wife's phone let them. "What
kind of bread- white?" "No wheat""They only have multi grain" I doubt
the government has the resources to monitor every one.

On Aug 7, 10:52 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's idea of national security is not
endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"




The NSA is intercepting communications that are between suspected
terrorists(gleaned from intelligence gathered outside the US that may not
be acceptable/useable evidence in a US court of law) and another agent
inside the US(not necessarily a US citizen,either).They are not just
listening in on anyone.
Since terrorists have gotten tech-savvy and use their cellphones only a few
times and then dispose of them for new ones,intercepts are time-
sensitive.By the time the forms are filled out and a judge reads and
affirms them,the opportunity and possible intelligence has been lost.

The Constitution gives the responsibility for protecting the US from
foreign attack to the President,not any judge or Congress.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

miss liberty wrote in
:

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:59:38 -0700, wrote:

If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear.

spoken like an abject, cringing slave, not a free american

the Founders must be spinning in their graves!

miss liberty

If a spook
at Langley wants to listen to me and my wife's phone let them. "What
kind of bread- white?" "No wheat""They only have multi grain" I doubt
the government has the resources to monitor every one.

is that the point? or do you understand "principle"????

On Aug 7, 10:52 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years
building an organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure
for Executive Branch power, including anything from wiretap
infrastructures to the Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and
Justice Department with pro- executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them -
the FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA
anti-public-crypto people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to
the Clinton or GHWBush/ Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's

whose

idea of national security is not
endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"




you ought to read this;
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...ZDdkODJkY2VkZj
M3ZmY=
about FISA and foreign intercepts.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Every terrorist we kill overseas is one less than can harm us here. I
have nothing to hide so let them listen if they want to.

On Aug 7, 4:48 pm, miss liberty wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:59:38 -0700, wrote:
If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear.

spoken like an abject, cringing slave, not a free american

the Founders must be spinning in their graves!

miss liberty

If a spook

at Langley wants to listen to me and my wife's phone let them. "What
kind of bread- white?" "No wheat""They only have multi grain" I doubt
the government has the resources to monitor every one.

is that the point? or do you understand "principle"????



On Aug 7, 10:52 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's

whose

idea of national security is not



endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:


The NSA is intercepting communications that are between suspected
terrorists(gleaned from intelligence gathered outside the US that may not
be acceptable/useable evidence in a US court of law) and another agent
inside the US(not necessarily a US citizen,either).They are not just
listening in on anyone.

Even then no one has been able to tell me why that is illegal. Wire
taps that are legal can monitor both sides of the conversation when one
of the phones is tapped legally. If Mobster 1's phone is legally tapped,
then it is perfectly legal to listen in when Mobster 2 calls and
anything M2 says can be used legally.
Since there are no US law related restrictions on intercepting
communications outside the US then as long as the phone call or
communication starts outside the US, it would be the same as M2 calling
M1, even if it is international. Communications STARTING with in the US
would be different.

Kurt Ullman wrote:

Even then no one has been able to tell me why that is illegal. Wire
taps that are legal can monitor both sides of the conversation when
one of the phones is tapped legally. If Mobster 1's phone is legally
tapped, then it is perfectly legal to listen in when Mobster 2 calls
and anything M2 says can be used legally.
Since there are no US law related restrictions on intercepting
communications outside the US then as long as the phone call or
communication starts outside the US, it would be the same as M2
calling M1, even if it is international. Communications STARTING with
in the US would be different.

And even if both sides of the conversation are inside the U.S., the
president, under his Article II powers, can listen. Only those charged or
suspected of a crime are protected by the 4th Amendment. Enemy soldiers are
not protected. Unlawful enemy combatants (sabateurs, guerrilas, etc.) are
not protected. People posting critical comments on newsgroups are not.

On Aug 7, 11:00 am, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 04:52:27 -0700, wrote:
http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/200...rizes-vast-exp...

The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,

This has gone on forever. The NSA simply knows anything it wants to
about you. The best source of information are commercial spies like
Yahoo, Google and your ISP. NSA/FBI/CIA/IRS simply exploits that
resource and they are quick to comply to virtually any request. Those
are the real spies and I don't hear near enough concern about them

This note here is in that database, along with anything else you say
online. The fact that the government is looking at these data streams
is old news

"tapping" your phone is really intercepting a data stream, not
climbing up a pole and hooking up alligator clips like agent
Youngblood on the old Untouchables.

Whatever the Bush administration is doing, at least some of it seems
to be working quite well. How many terrorist cells have they broken
up with arrests? They just grabbed about 6 guys here in NJ that were
planning an attack on Fort Dix. Those guys are in jail now. And
there hasn't been an attack in 6 years here in the USA.

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:12:39 -0000, wrote:

On Aug 7, 11:00 am, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 04:52:27 -0700, wrote:
http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/200...rizes-vast-exp...

The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,

This has gone on forever. The NSA simply knows anything it wants to
about you. The best source of information are commercial spies like
Yahoo, Google and your ISP. NSA/FBI/CIA/IRS simply exploits that
resource and they are quick to comply to virtually any request. Those
are the real spies and I don't hear near enough concern about them

This note here is in that database, along with anything else you say
online. The fact that the government is looking at these data streams
is old news

"tapping" your phone is really intercepting a data stream, not
climbing up a pole and hooking up alligator clips like agent
Youngblood on the old Untouchables.

Whatever the Bush administration is doing, at least some of it seems
to be working quite well. How many terrorist cells have they broken
up with arrests? They just grabbed about 6 guys here in NJ that were
planning an attack on Fort Dix. Those guys are in jail now.

And
there hasn't been an attack in 6 years here in the USA.

I shudder when i read this mindless mantra repeated over & over, like
whistling in the dark

THEY can attack anywhere they want, any time they want, whether
home-grown or islamist terrorists, small-scale or large-scale,
despite heroic efforts by our under-funded, under-staffed authorities

it just hasn't fitted their plans so far,

and if/when they DO strike, the shortage of first responders means
lives lost in the chaos -- because first responders are in the
reserves and are deployed to Iraq, where they are picked off by the
religious civil war that WE unleashed by invading through a series of
deliberate lies building on the trauma of 9/11

thanks to the bible-thumping ex-drunk jesus freak draft dodger
nutcase puppet in the white house :

only a tiny fraction of shipping containers are being inspected

airplane baggage handlers are allowed virtually free access to cargo
holds without their credentials being verified

old ladies are ordered to take their shoes off, while sting operations
repeatedly show weapons smuggled onto planes,

communications systems between levels of local/state/federal
authorities are STILL not coordinated (remember the brave firemen who
died on 9/11 because they could not hear the command NOT to go up
into the twin towers!!!!)

the list is long..

while we are ****ing away billions on rip-off mercenaries aka
contractors in iraq...massive fraud ...no accountability...

while our soldiers lack needed armor and supplies - sometimes even
food and water on tiny, isolated bases far from the luxurious

and indefensible

green zone

while PTSD and physical vet's care is shockingly lacking - walter
reid was tthe tip of the iceberg

while darth vader tells the puppet to run out the clock till election
day 2008...when it will be somebody else's problem

while domestic needs of american human beings go unfulfilled

and the ****ing pussy congress, even with the new majority is STILL
more interested in re-election to their cushy jobs than in standing up
to the would-be dictators who are ****ting on the Constitution...

--

miss liberty

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:59:38 -0700, wrote:

If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear. If a spook
at Langley wants to listen to me and my wife's phone let them. "What
kind of bread- white?" "No wheat""They only have multi grain" I doubt
the government has the resources to monitor every one.

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller



On Aug 7, 10:52 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's idea of national security is not
endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"

On Aug 7, 11:17 pm, miss liberty wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:12:39 -0000, wrote:
On Aug 7, 11:00 am, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 04:52:27 -0700, wrote:
http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/200...rizes-vast-exp...

The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,

This has gone on forever. The NSA simply knows anything it wants to
about you. The best source of information are commercial spies like
Yahoo, Google and your ISP. NSA/FBI/CIA/IRS simply exploits that
resource and they are quick to comply to virtually any request. Those
are the real spies and I don't hear near enough concern about them

This note here is in that database, along with anything else you say
online. The fact that the government is looking at these data streams
is old news

"tapping" your phone is really intercepting a data stream, not
climbing up a pole and hooking up alligator clips like agent
Youngblood on the old Untouchables.

Whatever the Bush administration is doing, at least some of it seems
to be working quite well. How many terrorist cells have they broken
up with arrests? They just grabbed about 6 guys here in NJ that were
planning an attack on Fort Dix. Those guys are in jail now.

And

there hasn't been an attack in 6 years here in the USA.

I shudder when i read this mindless mantra repeated over & over, like
whistling in the dark

THEY can attack anywhere they want, any time they want, whether
home-grown or islamist terrorists, small-scale or large-scale,
despite heroic efforts by our under-funded, under-staffed authorities

it just hasn't fitted their plans so far,

and if/when they DO strike, the shortage of first responders means
lives lost in the chaos -- because first responders are in the
reserves and are deployed to Iraq, where they are picked off by the
religious civil war that WE unleashed by invading through a series of
deliberate lies building on the trauma of 9/11

Yeah. typical kook nonsense. Look, do you dispute that the US, under
the Bush administration has arrested several cells here in the US that
were planning attacks? Does Fort Dix, NJ ring a bell? How about
the cell that was going to blow up fuel depots/pipelines at JFK?
Those are just 2 that never happened because of good intelligence and
police work.

This nonsense about first responders is just crap. Is that your idea
about how to fight a war? How many first responders would it take to
prevent tens of thouseands of deaths from a chemical attack? Or a
100,000 from a nuclear one?




thanks to the bible-thumping ex-drunk jesus freak draft dodger
nutcase puppet in the white house :

only a tiny fraction of shipping containers are being inspected

The Democrat controlled Congress is free to pass any kind of port
inspection legislation they want. Where is it? Better ask Pelosi
and Reid.




airplane baggage handlers are allowed virtually free access to cargo
holds without their credentials being verified

old ladies are ordered to take their shoes off, while sting operations
repeatedly show weapons smuggled onto planes,

communications systems between levels of local/state/federal
authorities are STILL not coordinated (remember the brave firemen who
died on 9/11 because they could not hear the command NOT to go up
into the twin towers!!!!)

the list is long..

Yeah, the list is long. But is was a hell of a lot longer in the
Clinton administration. What exactly did they do about the above?
What have Reid and Pelosi done? What did Clinton do when he was
presented with the opportunity to launch a cruise missle stike at the
camp where Bin Laden was known to be at the time? Or what did he do
when the Sudan was expelling him? Answer: In the first case, he was
worried about collateral damage, so nothing was done. In the second,
he got a legal opinion that the US had no legal basis to act. Thats
how libs fight wars.




while we are ****ing away billions on rip-off mercenaries aka
contractors in iraq...massive fraud ...no accountability...

while our soldiers lack needed armor and supplies - sometimes even
food and water on tiny, isolated bases far from the luxurious

and indefensible

green zone

while PTSD and physical vet's care is shockingly lacking - walter
reid was tthe tip of the iceberg

while darth vader tells the puppet to run out the clock till election
day 2008...when it will be somebody else's problem

while domestic needs of american human beings go unfulfilled

and the ****ing pussy congress, even with the new majority is STILL
more interested in re-election to their cushy jobs than in standing up
to the would-be dictators who are ****ting on the Constitution...

--

miss liberty- Hide quoted text -


If it's so God awful bad, why don't you and Michael Moore just leave?

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:49:35 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:


On 8 Aug 2007 00:40:05 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

I read it and it's nonsense. It completely ignores the
constitutionally guaranteed rights of the CITIZENS and makes up an
imaginary "right" of the president to do whatever he ****ing pleases
,,,


take it to a newsgroup that cares.

Again , every terrorist they kill overseas cannot do harm here. No
attacks in 6 years- pretty good. If they have to listen to me and the
mrs. make a shopping list to catch those a-rabs that planned to blow
up Ft. Dix that's fine. Most of the intercepted calls are directed
to and from areas known to harbor terrorists. I seriously doubt there
is a listener eavesdropping in every call made locally in the US. Get
real.


On Aug 8, 12:20 am, miss liberty wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:59:38 -0700, wrote:
If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear. If a spook
at Langley wants to listen to me and my wife's phone let them. "What
kind of bread- white?" "No wheat""They only have multi grain" I doubt
the government has the resources to monitor every one.

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller





On Aug 7, 10:52 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's idea of national security is not
endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

miss liberty wrote in
:

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:12:39 -0000, wrote:

On Aug 7, 11:00 am, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 04:52:27 -0700, wrote:
http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/200...orizes-vast-ex
p...

The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building
an organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for
Executive Branch power, including anything from wiretap
infrastructures to the Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and
Justice Department with pro- executive-power people,

This has gone on forever. The NSA simply knows anything it wants to
about you. The best source of information are commercial spies like
Yahoo, Google and your ISP. NSA/FBI/CIA/IRS simply exploits that
resource and they are quick to comply to virtually any request.
Those are the real spies and I don't hear near enough concern about
them

This note here is in that database, along with anything else you say
online. The fact that the government is looking at these data
streams is old news

"tapping" your phone is really intercepting a data stream, not
climbing up a pole and hooking up alligator clips like agent
Youngblood on the old Untouchables.

Whatever the Bush administration is doing, at least some of it seems
to be working quite well. How many terrorist cells have they broken
up with arrests? They just grabbed about 6 guys here in NJ that were
planning an attack on Fort Dix. Those guys are in jail now.

And
there hasn't been an attack in 6 years here in the USA.

I shudder when i read this mindless mantra repeated over & over, like
whistling in the dark

THEY can attack anywhere they want, any time they want, whether
home-grown or islamist terrorists, small-scale or large-scale,
despite heroic efforts by our under-funded, under-staffed authorities

it just hasn't fitted their plans so far,

and if/when they DO strike, the shortage of first responders means
lives lost in the chaos -- because first responders are in the
reserves and are deployed to Iraq, where they are picked off by the
religious civil war that WE unleashed by invading through a series of
deliberate lies building on the trauma of 9/11

thanks to the bible-thumping ex-drunk jesus freak draft dodger
nutcase puppet in the white house :

only a tiny fraction of shipping containers are being inspected

airplane baggage handlers are allowed virtually free access to cargo
holds without their credentials being verified

old ladies are ordered to take their shoes off, while sting operations
repeatedly show weapons smuggled onto planes,

communications systems between levels of local/state/federal
authorities are STILL not coordinated (remember the brave firemen who
died on 9/11 because they could not hear the command NOT to go up
into the twin towers!!!!)

the list is long..

while we are ****ing away billions on rip-off mercenaries aka
contractors in iraq...massive fraud ...no accountability...

while our soldiers lack needed armor and supplies - sometimes even
food and water on tiny, isolated bases far from the luxurious

and indefensible

green zone

while PTSD and physical vet's care is shockingly lacking - walter
reid was tthe tip of the iceberg

while darth vader tells the puppet to run out the clock till election
day 2008...when it will be somebody else's problem

while domestic needs of american human beings go unfulfilled

and the ****ing pussy congress, even with the new majority is STILL
more interested in re-election to their cushy jobs than in standing up
to the would-be dictators who are ****ting on the Constitution...

--

miss liberty




A clear case of BDS;Bush Derangement Syndrome.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Aug 8, 7:42 am, wrote:

Again , every terrorist they kill overseas cannot do harm here. No
attacks in 6 years- pretty good. If they have to listen to me and the
mrs. make a shopping list to catch those a-rabs that planned to blow
up Ft. Dix that's fine. Most of the intercepted calls are directed
to and from areas known to harbor terrorists. I seriously doubt there
is a listener eavesdropping in every call made locally in the US. Get
real.

Are all Americans as butt ****ing dumb, ignorant and fearful as you
are?

Just wondering. It might be contagious.

On Aug 8, 12:20 am, miss liberty wrote:

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:59:38 -0700, wrote:
If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear. If a spook
at Langley wants to listen to me and my wife's phone let them. "What
kind of bread- white?" "No wheat""They only have multi grain" I doubt
the government has the resources to monitor every one.

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

On Aug 7, 10:52 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's idea of national security is not
endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Aug 8, 2:43 am, wrote:

If it's so God awful bad

You're absolutely right. God is awful.

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 05:42:01 -0700, wrote:

Again , every terrorist they kill overseas cannot do harm here. No
attacks in 6 years- pretty good. If they have to listen to me and the
mrs. make a shopping list to catch those a-rabs that planned to blow
up Ft. Dix that's fine. Most of the intercepted calls are directed
to and from areas known to harbor terrorists.

how will you know, since the pussy congress just voted to give the
white house mafia some of the same unchecked powers that hitler
obtained from his senile chancellor not so long ago. you'll never
know till it's too late,,


'"those who do not study history are doomed to relive it" Santayana


'seriously doubt there
is a listener eavesdropping in every call made locally in the US. Get
real.

i AM real!!!! i am making the connection...

a lot more than some, i fear...

i'm looking at the bushies' -- read: darth vader -- naked grab to
snoop on anybody anytime without even the *pretense* of necessity.

wait till it hits YOU or your loved ones.

too late, then...


On Aug 8, 12:20 am, miss liberty wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:59:38 -0700, wrote:
If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear. If a spook
at Langley wants to listen to me and my wife's phone let them. "What
kind of bread- white?" "No wheat""They only have multi grain" I doubt
the government has the resources to monitor every one.

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller





On Aug 7, 10:52 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do
massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the
FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto
people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/
Reagan administrations or earlier.

Excellent! Glad we've got someone who's idea of national security is not
endlessly repeating the mantra: "Can't we all just get along?"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 12:41:08 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:49:35 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:


On 8 Aug 2007 00:40:05 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

I read it and it's nonsense. It completely ignores the
constitutionally guaranteed rights of the CITIZENS and makes up an
imaginary "right" of the president to do whatever he ****ing pleases
,,,


take it to a newsgroup that cares.

oh, you're speaking for the NG?

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 07:43:36 -0000, wrote:

On Aug 7, 11:17 pm, miss liberty wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:12:39 -0000, wrote:
On Aug 7, 11:00 am, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 04:52:27 -0700, wrote:
http://tangibleinfo.blogspot.com/200...rizes-vast-exp...

The Bush/Cheney Administration has spent the last 6+ years building an
organizational, legal, and technical infrastructure for Executive
Branch power, including anything from wiretap infrastructures to the
Patriot Act to stuffing the courts and Justice Department with pro-
executive-power people,

This has gone on forever. The NSA simply knows anything it wants to
about you. The best source of information are commercial spies like
Yahoo, Google and your ISP. NSA/FBI/CIA/IRS simply exploits that
resource and they are quick to comply to virtually any request. Those
are the real spies and I don't hear near enough concern about them

This note here is in that database, along with anything else you say
online. The fact that the government is looking at these data streams
is old news

"tapping" your phone is really intercepting a data stream, not
climbing up a pole and hooking up alligator clips like agent
Youngblood on the old Untouchables.

Whatever the Bush administration is doing, at least some of it seems
to be working quite well. How many terrorist cells have they broken
up with arrests? They just grabbed about 6 guys here in NJ that were
planning an attack on Fort Dix. Those guys are in jail now.

And

there hasn't been an attack in 6 years here in the USA.

I shudder when i read this mindless mantra repeated over & over, like
whistling in the dark

THEY can attack anywhere they want, any time they want, whether
home-grown or islamist terrorists, small-scale or large-scale,
despite heroic efforts by our under-funded, under-staffed authorities

it just hasn't fitted their plans so far,

and if/when they DO strike, the shortage of first responders means
lives lost in the chaos -- because first responders are in the
reserves and are deployed to Iraq, where they are picked off by the
religious civil war that WE unleashed by invading through a series of
deliberate lies building on the trauma of 9/11

Yeah. typical kook nonsense. Look, do you dispute that the US, under
the Bush administration has arrested several cells here in the US that
were planning attacks? Does Fort Dix, NJ ring a bell? How about
the cell that was going to blow up fuel depots/pipelines at JFK?
Those are just 2 that never happened because of good intelligence and
police work.

This nonsense about first responders is just crap.

sorry, it's hard, cold statistics. do some research before you blow
off facts,

that your idea
about how to fight a war? How many first responders would it take to
prevent tens of thouseands of deaths from a chemical attack? Or a
100,000 from a nuclear one?

sure would help if we used the billions that cheney's no-bid
contractors are stealing in iraq/afghanistan to enhance OUR
dismally leaky security!


thanks to the bible-thumping ex-drunk jesus freak draft dodger
nutcase puppet in the white house :

only a tiny fraction of shipping containers are being inspected

The Democrat controlled Congress is free to pass any kind of port
inspection legislation they want. Where is it? Better ask Pelosi
and Reid.




airplane baggage handlers are allowed virtually free access to cargo
holds without their credentials being verified

old ladies are ordered to take their shoes off, while sting operations
repeatedly show weapons smuggled onto planes,

communications systems between levels of local/state/federal
authorities are STILL not coordinated (remember the brave firemen who
died on 9/11 because they could not hear the command NOT to go up
into the twin towers!!!!)

the list is long..

Yeah, the list is long. But is was a hell of a lot longer in the
Clinton administration. What exactly did they do about the above?
What have Reid and Pelosi done? What did Clinton do when he was
presented with the opportunity to launch a cruise missle stike at the
camp where Bin Laden was known to be at the time? Or what did he do
when the Sudan was expelling him? Answer: In the first case, he was
worried about collateral damage, so nothing was done. In the second,
he got a legal opinion that the US had no legal basis to act. Thats
how libs fight wars.

no use going into how many times the bushies let OBL get away for fesr
of offending arab guests..or how totally incompetent has been their
conduct of the invasion

your kind looks at events from strictly a partisan political POV;
forget reality




while we are ****ing away billions on rip-off mercenaries aka
contractors in iraq...massive fraud ...no accountability...

while our soldiers lack needed armor and supplies - sometimes even
food and water on tiny, isolated bases far from the luxurious

and indefensible

green zone

while PTSD and physical vet's care is shockingly lacking - walter
reid was tthe tip of the iceberg

while darth vader tells the puppet to run out the clock till election
day 2008...when it will be somebody else's problem

while domestic needs of american human beings go unfulfilled

and the ****ing pussy congress, even with the new majority is STILL
more interested in re-election to their cushy jobs than in standing up
to the would-be dictators who are ****ting on the Constitution...

--

miss liberty- Hide quoted text -


If it's so God awful bad, why don't you and Michael Moore just leave?

i realize that you're not an american, so you don't understand that
americans don't cut & run -- we stay and work to defeat threats,
internal as well as external, to our young democracy.

oooooops! just realized i was hitting reply to all groups -- wow,
that explains a lot!!!

over & out [thank goodness]

miss liberty

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:44:40 -0700, wrote:

Every terrorist we kill overseas is one less than can harm us here.

By and large, that's not what they're doing.

By and large, they're killing innocents. Because they are
patently incompetent. And they don't care. Ay-Rabs are
bad guys. Kill 'em. But don't talk about it to the
press.

For every innocent they (state terrorists) murder,
3 or 4 new "terrorists" are born.

I have nothing to hide so let them listen if they want to.

Well, that's the way they felt about it in Tojo's Japan.

And Hitler's Germany.

AQ

In article ,
says...
miss liberty wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:59:38 -0700, wrote:

If you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to fear.

spoken like an abject, cringing slave, not a free american

the Founders must be spinning in their graves!

miss liberty

The Bill of Rights is not a suicide pact, nor is it something to be
worshiped.

Just something generations have fought, bled, and died for.

If the Administration wants to gut the Constitution, they could at least
do it honestly, by Amendment.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Updated Infrared Photography Gallery:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/ir.html

no use going into how many times the bushies let OBL get away for fesr
of offending arab guests..or how totally incompetent has been their
conduct of the invasion

your kind looks at events from strictly a partisan political POV;
forget reality



It's no use going into because you haven't got even a single case to
cite, do you? I'd love to hear the cases where President Bush had
definitive intelligence as to the specific location where Bin Laden
was and did not act.

In Pres Clinton's case I can give you 2 clear cut ones:

The Sudan, at Clinton's urging, was expelling Bin Laden and offered to
turn him over to the USA. Clinton was questioned about it and is on
tape saying he tried to get Saudi Arabia to take him, but they refused
and he had no legal basis to bring him here.

The CIA pinpointed, via Predator Drone, Bin Laden in one of his Al-
Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. They had photos of him walking
around. Clinton turned down a cruise missle strike, because he was
afraid of possible collateral damage.