I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber. It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...ofP1010074.jpg

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a 2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...ofP1010079.jpg

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...ofP1010081.jpg

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia (which I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted. Again it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There is a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside the I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some parts of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached to an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

MiamiCuse wrote:
I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over
the year. The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last
year by the previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber.
It's probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the
soffit framing.


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/CopyofP10100
74.jpg

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short
section from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it
goes all the way inside so I cannot replace it.

Is it a truss rather than a rafter?.
_______________

The ends are
basically rotted away and had termite damage as well. The fascia
is a 2x12 that will be attached to it perpendicularly.

A 2x12 ???????? I have little experience in this area but the
fascias on my Florida house are 3/4 x6 cedar.
______________

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill"
this hole that will have some structural strength? Is there any
kind of structural wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

GitRot
__________________

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the
adjacent rafter together using some metal straps would that make
things better?

What you *should* do is get a contractor...someone that knows what to
do and how to do it.

Someone also needs to figure out why you are getting water damage at
the ends of the trusses/rafters. The fascia should cover them and the
drip strip - the piece of aluminum directly under the tile - should
extend downward over the fascia board so that no water can get to
them. In at least one of the photos you linked, that doesn't look
like it is the case.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/CopyofP10100
74.jpg



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Jun 13, 11:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber. It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a 2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia (which I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted. Again it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There is a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside the I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some parts of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached to an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

Man, I hope you bought that house CHEAP after seeing what you are
going through with it. Man-o-man.

I think you need to have someone take a serious look at this issue.
I'm not sure that your short little sister is sufficient there.
Granted it doesn't hold much weight but it's got some leverage on it
and who knows what a high wind would do.

Before you go throw too much money at it, you might want to consider
just ripping it all out and starting again. If you do that, you might
then consider what else you might want to do at the same time -- like
add a second floor or bump up the ceiling or put in sky lights to find
a way to re-route your troublesome AC.

Ugh. Good luck with it. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

On Jun 13, 8:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber. It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a 2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia (which I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted. Again it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There is a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside the I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some parts of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached to an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

MC-

Your situation is too complicated to diagonse & prescibe from a
distnace.

As you now know (unfortunately) the time to repair all this was when
the roof wwas off........I hope you got a bargain.

Was the condition discovered or disclosed before you bought the house
(ie did you know the existence & extent of the damage?) otherwise it
looks like a case of willful deception.

In CA this is a cause of action against the seller & maybe the realtor
but Florida may be different.

but to your question

Structural epoxy repair of wood & concrete www.abatron.com the
stuff is great but not cheap.

I have 20 years of good results with the stuff.

buy the wood repair kit ...the kit is way cheaper than "ala carte"

sounds like you'll need the gallon kit ........~460 cubic inches of
Wood Epox

typically I have Liquid Wood leftover so maybe a quart or two of
Liquid Wood & a gallon kit of WoodEpox would suit your needs better &
be less money than the gallon wood repair kit (combo of Liquid Wood &
Wood Epox)

On my old house I've done more filling than consolidating.


When you a sister repair it is generally done with the same sized
timber, the sister has to extend onto sound timber by at least 2x or
more the length of the damaged wood,

Dry rotted wood has very little strength so you're not saving much
when you leave it

You've go the solve the water / roof / flashing issues or the problem
will just come back.

Treated wood is no substitute for good detailing.

cheers
Bob

On Jun 14, 9:54 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
MiamiCuse wrote:
I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over
the year. The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last
year by the previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber.
It's probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the
soffit framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/CopyofP10100
74.jpg



Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short
section from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it
goes all the way inside so I cannot replace it.

Is it a truss rather than a rafter?.
_______________

The ends are
basically rotted away and had termite damage as well. The fascia
is a 2x12 that will be attached to it perpendicularly.

A 2x12 ???????? I have little experience in this area but the
fascias on my Florida house are 3/4 x6 cedar.
______________

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill"
this hole that will have some structural strength? Is there any
kind of structural wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

GitRot
__________________

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the
adjacent rafter together using some metal straps would that make
things better?

What you *should* do is get a contractor...someone that knows what to
do and how to do it.

Someone also needs to figure out why you are getting water damage at
the ends of the trusses/rafters. The fascia should cover them and the
drip strip - the piece of aluminum directly under the tile - should
extend downward over the fascia board so that no water can get to
them. In at least one of the photos you linked, that doesn't look
like it is the case.http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/CopyofP10100
74.jpg

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

There is no water damage now. I have done waited through several rain
storms as well as using garden hoses on the roof to test various
angles.

The moisture damages was done prior to the reroof which cost the
previous owner 40K. I have removed soffit boards in about 50 % of the
eave areas and it's all dry. Some of the rot were caused by termites,
and the house was tented at the end of 2004 so I believe all these
were pre-existing damages which has since been cured by the termite
tenting and new roof.

As to why they did not replace the damaged rafters when re-roofing, I
don't know.

Thanks.

On Jun 14, 10:17 am, Pat wrote:
On Jun 13, 11:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:



I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber. It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a 2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia (which I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted. Again it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There is a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside the I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some parts of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached to an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

Man, I hope you bought that house CHEAP after seeing what you are
going through with it. Man-o-man.

I think you need to have someone take a serious look at this issue.
I'm not sure that your short little sister is sufficient there.
Granted it doesn't hold much weight but it's got some leverage on it
and who knows what a high wind would do.

Before you go throw too much money at it, you might want to consider
just ripping it all out and starting again. If you do that, you might
then consider what else you might want to do at the same time -- like
add a second floor or bump up the ceiling or put in sky lights to find
a way to re-route your troublesome AC.

Ugh. Good luck with it. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Well, no I did not get a good deal, it was an ok deal, but I know
going in I will need to do major renovations. So some of this work
has been factored in, but I have found some surprises.

Some of these problems are connected and some are not. My troublesome
AC is in another room fifty feet away so they cannot be solved
together. I would prefer to save this roof that is brand new if I can
somehow solve the problem from below.

On Jun 14, 9:54 am, "dadiOH" wrote:

A 2x12 ???????? I have little experience in this area but the
fascias on my Florida house are 3/4 x6 cedar.

dadiOH

Much of the fascia in this house are 2x12s, well I am not sure I
should have called them fascia. The house's exterior walls are all
poured solid concrete, there are metal I-BEAMs along all the exterior
and interior perimeters above the ceiling. The metal I-BEAMs are used
to support roof overhang areas - some sticks out 6 to 8 feet.

The I-BEAMs are 12" deep, embedded into the "I" of the I-BEAM are the
2x12 boards. They are bolted onto the I-BEAM and the "real" fascia
are attached to that lumber. I called the embedded lumber fascia but
it's incorrect. The actual fascia is a four layer construction, with
a 1x12 on top of that, then a 1x10 layer mounted flushed to the top,
then another 1x8 layer, then another 1x6 layer. So the actual fascia
is a 4 layer 1x with decreasing depths.

On Jun 14, 10:35 am, BobK207 wrote:
On Jun 13, 8:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:



I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber. It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a 2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia (which I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted. Again it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There is a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside the I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some parts of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached to an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

MC-

Your situation is too complicated to diagonse & prescibe from a
distnace.

As you now know (unfortunately) the time to repair all this was when
the roof wwas off........I hope you got a bargain.

Was the condition discovered or disclosed before you bought the house
(ie did you know the existence & extent of the damage?) otherwise it
looks like a case of willful deception.

In CA this is a cause of action against the seller & maybe the realtor
but Florida may be different.

but to your question

Structural epoxy repair of wood & concrete www.abatron.com the
stuff is great but not cheap.

I have 20 years of good results with the stuff.

buy the wood repair kit ...the kit is way cheaper than "ala carte"

sounds like you'll need the gallon kit ........~460 cubic inches of
Wood Epox

typically I have Liquid Wood leftover so maybe a quart or two of
Liquid Wood & a gallon kit of WoodEpox would suit your needs better &
be less money than the gallon wood repair kit (combo of Liquid Wood &
Wood Epox)

On my old house I've done more filling than consolidating.

When you a sister repair it is generally done with the same sized
timber, the sister has to extend onto sound timber by at least 2x or
more the length of the damaged wood,

Dry rotted wood has very little strength so you're not saving much
when you leave it

You've go the solve the water / roof / flashing issues or the problem
will just come back.

Treated wood is no substitute for good detailing.

cheers
Bob

I will look at the products you suggested thanks. I believe the water
and termite problems are in the past, I did some tests and no water
penetration now except in a chimney area far away from this spot but
that I need to solve another way. I appreciate the information about
the epoxy.

It sounds like the previous owner who may have spent $40,000 on the roof,
did a cheap cosmetic repair where he probably should have spent another
$10,000 to do a proper job. For you to do more superficial patching will not
really repair the problems but only extend the life for a while. You need to
do some major sistering and not with short blocking, basically replacing all
the damaged wood or at least doubling/tripling framing that is no longer
structural.

"Pat" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 13, 11:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the
year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber. It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short
section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and
had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a 2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia (which I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted. Again
it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now
change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There is
a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside the
I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I
know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some parts
of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached to
an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent
rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

Man, I hope you bought that house CHEAP after seeing what you are
going through with it. Man-o-man.

I think you need to have someone take a serious look at this issue.
I'm not sure that your short little sister is sufficient there.
Granted it doesn't hold much weight but it's got some leverage on it
and who knows what a high wind would do.

Before you go throw too much money at it, you might want to consider
just ripping it all out and starting again. If you do that, you might
then consider what else you might want to do at the same time -- like
add a second floor or bump up the ceiling or put in sky lights to find
a way to re-route your troublesome AC.

Ugh. Good luck with it. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

On Jun 14, 2:44 pm, "EXT" wrote:
It sounds like the previous owner who may have spent $40,000 on the roof,
did a cheap cosmetic repair where he probably should have spent another
$10,000 to do a proper job. For you to do more superficial patching will not
really repair the problems but only extend the life for a while. You need to
do some major sistering and not with short blocking, basically replacing all
the damaged wood or at least doubling/tripling framing that is no longer
structural.

"Pat" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jun 13, 11:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the
year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber. It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short
section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and
had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a 2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia (which I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted. Again
it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now
change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There is
a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside the
I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I
know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some parts
of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached to
an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent
rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

Man, I hope you bought that house CHEAP after seeing what you are
going through with it. Man-o-man.

I think you need to have someone take a serious look at this issue.
I'm not sure that your short little sister is sufficient there.
Granted it doesn't hold much weight but it's got some leverage on it
and who knows what a high wind would do.

Before you go throw too much money at it, you might want to consider
just ripping it all out and starting again. If you do that, you might
then consider what else you might want to do at the same time -- like
add a second floor or bump up the ceiling or put in sky lights to find
a way to re-route your troublesome AC.

Ugh. Good luck with it. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

I agree. He needs to go longer with the sisters. But to do that he's
getting into serious trouble. It's be hard to do from the outside.
So he'll either need to take the roof off (at which time he might as
well just replace everything) or get into the attic to do that (or
take out sheetrock if he can't get into the attic). But just the
patch will need to include doubling just about everything. Ugh. Too
bad. Time to call a serious roofing contractor.

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
It sounds like the previous owner who may have spent $40,000 on the roof,
did a cheap cosmetic repair where he probably should have spent another
$10,000 to do a proper job. For you to do more superficial patching will
not really repair the problems but only extend the life for a while. You
need to do some major sistering and not with short blocking, basically
replacing all the damaged wood or at least doubling/tripling framing that
is no longer structural.

OK let me ask you what you mean by "no longer structural".

I have removed about 50% of the soffit and what you saw are the worse case
scenerio. Most of the rafters (about six of them total out of hundreds),
the damaged portion is on the last six inches or so when the fascia is
attached to it. That is not the majority of the load. Further up the wood
is fine and solid. The rot is localized to the end of about half a dozen
rafters.

The last picture I listed, where there is a big piece of wood rot, was also
where the fascia is attached to. That wood is not structiral as well.
There are metal I-BEAMS 12" deep running across the bottom of the roof
framing to support the cantilever eave. The rotted wood you see there is
embedded into the I-BEAM and it's simply there for the attachment of fascia.
The only structural aspect of that is whatever strength it needs to hold up
the fascia. Are you saying I need to rip up 3000 SF of new roof to repair
the ends of about six rafters?

I need to make sure I am not missing something,

Thanks,

MC


"Pat" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 13, 11:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the
year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber. It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short
section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and
had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to
it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a
2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other
side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia (which
I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted. Again
it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now
change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There
is a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside the
I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace
that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I
know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly
structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some parts
of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached
to an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to
handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this
hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of
structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent
rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

Man, I hope you bought that house CHEAP after seeing what you are
going through with it. Man-o-man.

I think you need to have someone take a serious look at this issue.
I'm not sure that your short little sister is sufficient there.
Granted it doesn't hold much weight but it's got some leverage on it
and who knows what a high wind would do.

Before you go throw too much money at it, you might want to consider
just ripping it all out and starting again. If you do that, you might
then consider what else you might want to do at the same time -- like
add a second floor or bump up the ceiling or put in sky lights to find
a way to re-route your troublesome AC.

Ugh. Good luck with it. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

"Pat" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 14, 2:44 pm, "EXT" wrote:
It sounds like the previous owner who may have spent $40,000 on the roof,
did a cheap cosmetic repair where he probably should have spent another
$10,000 to do a proper job. For you to do more superficial patching will
not
really repair the problems but only extend the life for a while. You need
to
do some major sistering and not with short blocking, basically replacing
all
the damaged wood or at least doubling/tripling framing that is no longer
structural.

"Pat" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jun 13, 11:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the
year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber.
It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the
soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short
section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the
way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and
had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to
it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a
2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other
side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair
this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia
(which I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted.
Again
it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now
change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There
is
a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside
the
I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how
the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting
that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace
that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I
know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly
structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some
parts
of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached
to
an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to
handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this
hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of
structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent
rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

Man, I hope you bought that house CHEAP after seeing what you are
going through with it. Man-o-man.

I think you need to have someone take a serious look at this issue.
I'm not sure that your short little sister is sufficient there.
Granted it doesn't hold much weight but it's got some leverage on it
and who knows what a high wind would do.

Before you go throw too much money at it, you might want to consider
just ripping it all out and starting again. If you do that, you might
then consider what else you might want to do at the same time -- like
add a second floor or bump up the ceiling or put in sky lights to find
a way to re-route your troublesome AC.

Ugh. Good luck with it. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

I agree. He needs to go longer with the sisters. But to do that he's
getting into serious trouble. It's be hard to do from the outside.
So he'll either need to take the roof off (at which time he might as
well just replace everything) or get into the attic to do that (or
take out sheetrock if he can't get into the attic). But just the
patch will need to include doubling just about everything. Ugh. Too
bad. Time to call a serious roofing contractor.


There are only about six rafters that are in that condition, localized to
one area. Most rot are at the end of the rafter where the fascia is
attached. I think by sistering the end I can support whatever weight I need
to support for the fascia.

If I need to get into the attic to double the whole thing I can do it, I
plan on ripping out all the ceilings anyways so it's possible, but is it
necessary to double sister 18' of rafter when the damage is at the last six
inches? It's not impossible it's doable just more work but I thought that's
an overkill.

Thanks,

MC

MiamiCuse wrote:
....
There are only about six rafters that are in that condition, localized to
one area. Most rot are at the end of the rafter where the fascia is
attached. I think by sistering the end I can support whatever weight I need
to support for the fascia.

If I need to get into the attic to double the whole thing I can do it, I
plan on ripping out all the ceilings anyways so it's possible, but is it
necessary to double sister 18' of rafter when the damage is at the last six
inches? It's not impossible it's doable just more work but I thought that's
an overkill.


No, not if it is only minimally structural as this and your other post
indicate. You need _at least_ 2x the length of the bad back onto good
material and certainly not less than 12-18" as simply a practical matter
of having enough material to make a good joint overlap. Certainly more
is better from a structural standpoint, but 18' for a 6" overhang is
certainly overkill.

As others have noted, the key item is to make sure whatever it was that
allowed the water damage to begin with is resolved prior to anything else.

--

On Jun 15, 12:12 am, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jun 14, 2:44 pm, "EXT" wrote:
It sounds like the previous owner who may have spent $40,000 on the roof,
did a cheap cosmetic repair where he probably should have spent another
$10,000 to do a proper job. For you to do more superficial patching will
not
really repair the problems but only extend the life for a while. You need
to
do some major sistering and not with short blocking, basically replacing
all
the damaged wood or at least doubling/tripling framing that is no longer
structural.

"Pat" wrote in message

groups.com...

On Jun 13, 11:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
I need some expert advise on how to repair rotted roof framing.

I am repairing a house that had some termite and rot problems over the
year.
The house has been tented and roof has been replaced last year by the
previous owner.

Now I am repairing some areas of the fascia and underlying lumber.
It's
probably easier to show a few pictures.

Here is one side where I removed the soffit ceiling to expose the
soffit
framing.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

Before I removed the soffit I thought the damaged piece is a short
section
from the exterior wall to the fascia, but turned out it goes all the
way
inside so I cannot replace it. The ends are basically rotted away and
had
termite damage as well. The fascia is a 2x12 that will be attached to
it
perpendicularly. I guess the only way to repair this, is to attach a
2x6
like I had to one side? or should I attach another one to the other
side
and "sandwich" the damaged piece? What is the best way to repair
this?

Another damaged area is shown here from an angle:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

a side view of the same damaged area:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...d/P1010075.jpg

a close up with annotations:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...rd/CopyofP1010...

In the above image, you can see the rafter extends to the fascia
(which I
already removed) and the end of the rafter is completely rotted.
Again
it
extends all the way to the inside of the roof and it's impossible to
replace, so my solution is to use an attached 2x4, well, I will now
change
it to a 3x8 to match it exactly.

Note the rafter is attached to another fascia. This is a 2x12. There
is
a
metal I-beam that runs across the ceiling, the 2x12 is seated inside
the
I
beam so that another layer of fascia can be attached to it. See how
the
termite had eaten half the wood away? I was thinking about cutting
that
piece out but with the I beam in the way I cannot cut it and replace
that
section, then I thought it is best to not cut it to preserve whatever
strength it has. My question is - is there a way to strengthen it? I
know
since the I-beam carries the roof load this 2x12 is not truly
structural,
but I will have another layer of fascia covering it, and then some
parts
of
it will be attached to a gutter, and some parts of it will be attached
to
an
overhead screen enclosure framework, so it will have to be able to
handle
that.

My question is whether there is any product I can use to "fill" this
hole
that will have some structural strength? Is there any kind of
structural
wood filler? Anything at all that may help?

After I repair all the pieces, should I tie the 2x12 and the adjacent
rafter
together using some metal straps would that make things better?

Thanks,

MC

Man, I hope you bought that house CHEAP after seeing what you are
going through with it. Man-o-man.

I think you need to have someone take a serious look at this issue.
I'm not sure that your short little sister is sufficient there.
Granted it doesn't hold much weight but it's got some leverage on it
and who knows what a high wind would do.

Before you go throw too much money at it, you might want to consider
just ripping it all out and starting again. If you do that, you might
then consider what else you might want to do at the same time -- like
add a second floor or bump up the ceiling or put in sky lights to find
a way to re-route your troublesome AC.

Ugh. Good luck with it. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

I agree. He needs to go longer with the sisters. But to do that he's
getting into serious trouble. It's be hard to do from the outside.
So he'll either need to take the roof off (at which time he might as
well just replace everything) or get into the attic to do that (or
take out sheetrock if he can't get into the attic). But just the
patch will need to include doubling just about everything. Ugh. Too
bad. Time to call a serious roofing contractor.

There are only about six rafters that are in that condition, localized to
one area. Most rot are at the end of the rafter where the fascia is
attached. I think by sistering the end I can support whatever weight I need
to support for the fascia.

If I need to get into the attic to double the whole thing I can do it, I
plan on ripping out all the ceilings anyways so it's possible, but is it
necessary to double sister 18' of rafter when the damage is at the last six
inches? It's not impossible it's doable just more work but I thought that's
an overkill.

Thanks,

MC

If it were I, first off I'd sell the damn house and get out of Miami,
but I guess that's not the advice you're looking for.

Looking at this pictu
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...ofP1010074.jpg

You need to think about the leverage the load has on the wood, both in
terms of wind load and snow load ;-)

I would sister the beam and I think 1 side is okay. but I woud extend
the sister inside the house for the same distance that it sticks out
past the wall. I don't know why I would do that, but it would make me
feel much more secure when someone walks on the roof or a big wind
comes. As I was doing that, I would just cut out the bad wood and
replace that too, but nailing it to the new sister. It's not like the
rotted wood is doing you any good. Just cut it off and pull it off
the sheathing.

But the MOST important part is to figure out where the water came from
and stop it. Stop the water. Stop the water. Stop the water.

Finally, you've found a bunch of "weird" stuff in that house --
nothing your fault but just plain weird. That wood is rotted but the
plywood looks okay. It seems like someone tore off the old roof, put
in new plywood and left the bad stringers. Before you go any farther,
get up in the attic and see what the wood looks like up there and make
sure this isn't a bigger problem that was covered up.