Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does this make any sense?
Thanks.

"Jack" wrote in message
...
Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How
would I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does this make any sense?
Thanks.

Surge protectors handle surges, not higher than normal voltage. Get a meter
and see exactly what you do have. Do this a few times a day. When I
started replacing light bulbs too frequently, I did that and found we had up
to 140 volts for a time in the morning. The power company denied it, but
once I made the call, it never happened again. They also replaced some
equipment at the nearby sub station.

On May 27, 8:16�am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message

...

Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. *The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. *It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. *I thought a surge protector handled that. *How
would I know if I have an over-voltage problem? *does this make any sense?
Thanks.

Surge protectors handle surges, not higher than normal voltage. Get a meter
and see exactly what you do have. *Do this a few times a day. *When I
started replacing light bulbs too frequently, I did that and found we had up
to 140 volts for a time in the morning. *The power company denied it, but
once I made the call, it never happened again. They also replaced some
equipment at the nearby sub station.

hows the dust level in your home. power supplies attract dust, which
prevents proper cooling and causes power supply failures. plus a
underlying main computer problem can cause power supply failures. you
might up the wattage of your supply espically if you have added cards
to your computer.

do check your line voltage, but that may not be it

On May 27, 8:16 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message

...

Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How
would I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does this make any sense?
Thanks.

Surge protectors handle surges, not higher than normal voltage. Get a meter
and see exactly what you do have. Do this a few times a day. When I
started replacing light bulbs too frequently, I did that and found we had up
to 140 volts for a time in the morning. The power company denied it, but
once I made the call, it never happened again. They also replaced some
equipment at the nearby sub station.

Agree with all the above. However, one would think that there is
quite a bit of margin in a PC supply. I would think you'd have to see
a pretty hefty over-voltage to burn it out. Is the supply adequate
for the total load of the PC, ie is this just a typical PC or one
fully loaded with add-in boards? Fans/ventilation working?

wrote:

On May 27, 8:16 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message

...

Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How
would I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does this make any sense?
Thanks.

Surge protectors handle surges, not higher than normal voltage. Get a meter
and see exactly what you do have. Do this a few times a day. When I
started replacing light bulbs too frequently, I did that and found we had up
to 140 volts for a time in the morning. The power company denied it, but
once I made the call, it never happened again. They also replaced some
equipment at the nearby sub station.

Agree with all the above. However, one would think that there is
quite a bit of margin in a PC supply. I would think you'd have to see
a pretty hefty over-voltage to burn it out. Is the supply adequate
for the total load of the PC, ie is this just a typical PC or one
fully loaded with add-in boards? Fans/ventilation working?

I think pretty much all PC power supplies (and most other power
supplies) these days are auto ranging switching type power supplies
which will accept an input voltage range from about 100-240V without any
issues. If you have an overvoltage situation on your power line it's
very unlikely that it will be high enough to be any issue for the PC
supply before a lot of other electrical items in your house are melting
down, particularly all your light bulbs.

I did have a moderate overvoltage situation at my house once, about
136V. I noticed it when my UPS switched to battery while power was
obviously still on. Checking the UPS I found it reporting 136V on the
input and switched to battery protectively. I confirmed the reading with
a separate meter as 135.6V (the UPS only reports three digits), and
called the utility.

The CSR I talked to at the utility had no idea what I was talking about,
but promised to pass the info to a tech. Much to my surprise I got a
call back from a tech in the area within 10 min and after explaining
what I found to him, he was parked in my driveway another 10 min later.
By the time I got out to the truck he had confirmed the reading and was
on the radio to another tech heading to the regulator bank up the road.
A few min later I had a nice 126V reading and it's been fine ever since.
A lot better response from the utility than I would have expected.

Pete C.

"Jack" wrote in message
...

I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How
would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem?

Probably all domestic electricity utilities will test
your house voltage (at the fuse box) free. They
have an interest in ensuring their own voltage
transformers are safe and efficient.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Jack wrote:
Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does this make any sense?
Thanks.



Hi,
Is your PC PSU proper size? I use 500W one on my PC. My server has
750W one. Wonder if it is undersized El Cheapo? If you have voltage
problem, other appliances will have trouble too.

Jack wrote:
Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does this make any sense?
Thanks.
I'm involved with a local access TV
studio that had a similar problem. We blew
the power supply in a color laser
printer twice, a power supply in a PC and a
surge protector. In one case the UPS
actually switched on a high voltage ...
seems
many don't. Anyway, it turned out the
be a bad neutral from a 3 phase
transformer.
I actually measured 180 volts at one of
the outlets.
This is in a commercial building and the
transformer was mounted up in the ceiling
area of the TV studio .... humming all
the time. Anyway the electrical department
determined that the transformer was bad,
so they replaced it putting it in an
equipment
room where it should have been
originally. I'm really not so sure that
it was the
transformer ... it could have been a bad
connection somewhere. But anyway,
new transform = no humming and the
problem hasn't come back. As others have
said, measure the voltage at the outlet.

Art Todesco wrote:
Jack wrote:
Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting
to a working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could
have an over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled
that. How would I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does
this make any sense? Thanks.

No. A surge protector would do zero for that. Most UPS wouldn't either,
but there ARE types that are also line conditioners and will cut over to
battery when the line goes too high or too low for a reasonable price. I
have one myself made by APC.

Overvoltages can be caused by:
-- Bad or missing Earth ground in the house.
-- Bad or missing Earth ground at the pole/transformer in which case it's
the powerco's fault.
-- Power company not maintaining the max voltage from xfmrs. It's a law
that they have to.
-- Transformer on pole is bad. Power co.

Most power co's will put a monitor on their lines to prove they are within
specs without charge if you have something indicating they are at fault.
The overvoltages often aren't constant but come and go. If it's an earth
ground problem, any motor or higher current draw appliance will cause an
overvoltage ofr a few seconds.
Watching your outlet voltage with a voltmeter:
IF it's high, you have it for sure. If it's not, you only know that at
the moment in time you looked at it, it was OK. You'd need something that
can measure over time and report the max voltages reached. There are such
appliances available IF you know what to do with them and how to use them.

IFF PC power supplies are dropping, then it's also possible it's something
else. You didn't mention ANY other problems, so it's going to be my guess
right now that it's NOT overvoltage problems or you'd see it in other areas,
esp TV sets.
Incandescent light bulbs are VERY susceptible to overvoltages and will
have a very short life under such. Plug one in on the same plug your
computer is on; see if it blows in a week or so or less.
If you're in an extremely rural setting, it's easil possible you could
get overvoltages. If you're urban, it'd be extremely unlikely. But that
still leaves the actual transformer out on the pose as a possible culprit,
IFF it's an overvoltage situation.
It could also be very high surge voltages of very short durations. Or,
it's something else affecting the power supplies; you never described
anything about how they fail or what happens when they fail, so ...

HTH
Pop`


I'm involved with a local access TV
studio that had a similar problem. We blew
the power supply in a color laser
printer twice, a power supply in a PC and a
surge protector. In one case the UPS
actually switched on a high voltage ...
seems
many don't. Anyway, it turned out the
be a bad neutral from a 3 phase
transformer.
I actually measured 180 volts at one of
the outlets.
This is in a commercial building and the
transformer was mounted up in the ceiling
area of the TV studio .... humming all
the time. Anyway the electrical department
determined that the transformer was bad,
so they replaced it putting it in an
equipment
room where it should have been
originally. I'm really not so sure that
it was the
transformer ... it could have been a bad
connection somewhere. But anyway,
new transform = no humming and the
problem hasn't come back. As others have
said, measure the voltage at the outlet.

On May 27, 8:10 am, "Jack" wrote:
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem?

This post will contrast reasonable answers verses irrelevant
answers. First, why do you know previous supplies failed? What
specifically failed? Do you have numbers for that failure or just
assume? As other posters discuss, an answer requires numbers from
that meter. Not only AC voltages; also DC voltages from supply output.
Why? Was the supply defective or just undersized? Or is the power
supply controller intermittent? Did previous advisers (before you
posted here) even know about a power supply controller? Without the
meter, none of those questions can be answered.

Does an AC overvoltage exist? Examples such as 136 volts on the 120
volts wire will be completely ignored by surge protectors as others
noted. But how do you know those answers are correct? Look on
protector's box. What is its let-through voltage? 330 volts? An
answer without 'whys' is nothing but rumor. Obviously those who
recommended a surge protector, et al were advising without first
learning basic technology; without first learning the numbers.

Some explained why a multimeter is essential. One reason to consult
a multimeter is because light bulbs change intensity. Not only will a
significant (but small) overvoltage cause a dramatic increase in light
bulb intensity. That overvoltage will drastically reduce incandescent
life expectancy. The numbers: a 120 volt bulb operating at only 126
volts will fail twice as fast. Meanwhile every 120 volt appliance
must work just fine even at 130 volts. What are your AC voltage
numbers? Suspect excessive voltage if light bulbs are failing
frequently or light intensity varies significantly. That being only
enough to suspect. Multimeter numbers necessary to convert suspicion
into fact.

Dust is not a reason for power supply failure. That power supply
must work just fine with plenty of dust even in a 100 degree F room.
If dust creates a problem inside a 70 degree room, then the human is a
100% reason for power supply failures.

No one can say with certainly why supplies are failing because
neither numbers nor failed component (inside that supply) is listed.
However if a supply sells for less than $50 retail, then ask this,
"What essential functions were 'forgotten' to sell at prices too
low?" What is the retail price of each supply? Did its manufacturer
forget to provide a long list of numerical specs because essential
functions inside that supply were 'forgotten'?

Every 120 volt supply must work constantly without failure even at
130 volts; a minimal requirement. However universal supplies operate
on any voltage from 90 to 265 VAC. For example, power supplies in
many monitors are universal type - no 110/220 volt switch required.
But then all supplies must also work at any voltage up to 600 volts (a
number limited by time). What does manufacturer's numerical specs
claim for each failed supply?

Low voltage also must not cause power supply failure. Power supply
must provide sufficient voltage to electronics or shut down. Damage
is not an option for any voltage below its maximum. But low voltage
on a supply's output implies other problems. Even when 120 volts
drops to 90 VAC, that output voltage must be rock solid.

Implicit in every paragraph is a question. Many of those questions
are also asked by others. To obtain more useful information, then an
underlying question from each paragraph should be provided.

That meter recommended by so many is a tool sold in any store that
also sells screwdrivers. It typically costs only $20; sometimes on
sale for $10. A tool so *complex* as to be sold even to K-mart and
Radio Shack shoppers. That meter will go a long way in obtaining a
worthy solution.

w_tom wrote:

On May 27, 8:10 am, "Jack" wrote:

I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem?


This post will contrast reasonable answers verses irrelevant
answers. First, why do you know previous supplies failed? What
specifically failed? Do you have numbers for that failure or just
assume? As other posters discuss, an answer requires numbers from
that meter. Not only AC voltages; also DC voltages from supply output.
Why? Was the supply defective or just undersized? Or is the power
supply controller intermittent? Did previous advisers (before you
posted here) even know about a power supply controller? Without the
meter, none of those questions can be answered.

Does an AC overvoltage exist? Examples such as 136 volts on the 120
volts wire will be completely ignored by surge protectors as others
noted. But how do you know those answers are correct? Look on
protector's box. What is its let-through voltage? 330 volts? An
answer without 'whys' is nothing but rumor. Obviously those who
recommended a surge protector, et al were advising without first
learning basic technology; without first learning the numbers.

Some explained why a multimeter is essential. One reason to consult
a multimeter is because light bulbs change intensity. Not only will a
significant (but small) overvoltage cause a dramatic increase in light
bulb intensity. That overvoltage will drastically reduce incandescent
life expectancy. The numbers: a 120 volt bulb operating at only 126
volts will fail twice as fast. Meanwhile every 120 volt appliance
must work just fine even at 130 volts. What are your AC voltage
numbers? Suspect excessive voltage if light bulbs are failing
frequently or light intensity varies significantly. That being only
enough to suspect. Multimeter numbers necessary to convert suspicion
into fact.

Dust is not a reason for power supply failure. That power supply
must work just fine with plenty of dust even in a 100 degree F room.
If dust creates a problem inside a 70 degree room, then the human is a
100% reason for power supply failures.

No one can say with certainly why supplies are failing because
neither numbers nor failed component (inside that supply) is listed.
However if a supply sells for less than $50 retail, then ask this,
"What essential functions were 'forgotten' to sell at prices too
low?" What is the retail price of each supply? Did its manufacturer
forget to provide a long list of numerical specs because essential
functions inside that supply were 'forgotten'?

Every 120 volt supply must work constantly without failure even at
130 volts; a minimal requirement. However universal supplies operate
on any voltage from 90 to 265 VAC. For example, power supplies in
many monitors are universal type - no 110/220 volt switch required.
But then all supplies must also work at any voltage up to 600 volts (a
number limited by time). What does manufacturer's numerical specs
claim for each failed supply?

Low voltage also must not cause power supply failure. Power supply
must provide sufficient voltage to electronics or shut down. Damage
is not an option for any voltage below its maximum. But low voltage
on a supply's output implies other problems. Even when 120 volts
drops to 90 VAC, that output voltage must be rock solid.

Implicit in every paragraph is a question. Many of those questions
are also asked by others. To obtain more useful information, then an
underlying question from each paragraph should be provided.

That meter recommended by so many is a tool sold in any store that
also sells screwdrivers. It typically costs only $20; sometimes on
sale for $10. A tool so *complex* as to be sold even to K-mart and
Radio Shack shoppers. That meter will go a long way in obtaining a
worthy solution.

Wow!
That was pretty lengthy post. BTW, what is controller inside power supply?

On May 28, 3:45 am, Tony Hwang wrote:
Wow!
That was pretty lengthy post. BTW, what is controller inside power supply?

Controller is not inside a power supply. But it is part of the power
supply 'system'.

Collected and recommended were good points by other posters into one
summary that also includes 'reasons why'.

On May 28, 6:55 am, w_tom wrote:
On May 28, 3:45 am, Tony Hwang wrote:

Wow!
That was pretty lengthy post. BTW, what is controller inside power supply?

Controller is not inside a power supply. But it is part of the power
supply 'system'.

Collected and recommended were good points by other posters into one
summary that also includes 'reasons why'.

.................................................. .................................................. ..........

Which reminds me ........................

In North America what are the permissible plus and minus percentages
for the nominal 230/115 volts supplied to our homes???????????????????

Is it something like plus 10 per cent and minus 5 percent or
something? Or maybe wider limts than that?
Assuming say plus 10% then our domeatic nominal 115 could go to around
127 volts and the 230 to 253, (both RMS).
At minus, say 5%, the voltages could be about 109 and 218.

I know this issue came up when the Europeans (Eupean Common Market
etc. who use 230 (50 hertz) volts for just about everything
domestically, including some 3 phase, set up +/- voltage standards to
be used throughout the varous countries. In some cases that meant they
did not have to actually change anything. In others they merely
adjusted transformer taps etc. All countries are required to keep
their voltage variations within the agreed limits. Interesting that a
nominal 2.5 kilowatt electric kettle, on the European system will, at
230 volts consume 10.9 amps. At plus 10%, 253 volts, it will consume
almost 12 amps and boil that much faster!

Japan, although they manufacture gear for all voltage markets,
domestically, AFIK, use closer to 100 volts nominal?

On Sun, 27 May 2007 08:10:39 -0400, Jack wrote:

Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does this make any sense?
Thanks.

A power supply is not a light bulb. Unless your buying total junk, it
probably has a fuse inside of it. overvoltage should not destroy the
powersupply. Thats its job to convert voltage.

On Sun, 27 May 2007 16:05:58 +0000, Tony Hwang wrote:

Jack wrote:
Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does this make any sense?
Thanks.



Hi,
Is your PC PSU proper size? I use 500W one on my PC. My server has
750W one. Wonder if it is undersized El Cheapo? If you have voltage
problem, other appliances will have trouble too.

750W? You heating the room too? Undersized and el cheapo are not
synonomous. Get a quality power supply before you get one with a high
rating.

On Mon, 28 May 2007 00:10:20 -0700, w_tom wrote:

On May 27, 8:10 am, "Jack" wrote:
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem?

This post will contrast reasonable answers verses irrelevant
answers. First, why do you know previous supplies failed? What
specifically failed? Do you have numbers for that failure or just
assume? As other posters discuss, an answer requires numbers from
that meter. Not only AC voltages; also DC voltages from supply output.
Why? Was the supply defective or just undersized? Or is the power
supply controller intermittent? Did previous advisers (before you
posted here) even know about a power supply controller? Without the
meter, none of those questions can be answered.



One wonders if you are in the military. You seem to think all
powersupplies 'must' conform to certain standards. No they do not have
to. They can be just as cheap and junky as their manufacturer desires them
to be.

On May 29, 10:24 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:
One wonders if you are in the military. You seem to think all
powersupplies 'must' conform to certain standards. No they do not have
to. They can be just as cheap and junky as their manufacturer desires them
to be.

Specifications for PC power supplies are quite specific. However
some clone power supplies are, instead, marketed to computer
assemblers who often don't even know how electricity works. These
power supplies may be missing essential functions required by those
specifications.

How to suspect a power supply as 'cheap and junky'? Such supplies
will be missing the full page of numerical specifications. If is does
not claim to meet those well defined industry standards, then they can
sell it at discounted prices. Many who never learned technology will
buy a supply only based upon watts and dollars.

Since A+ Certified techs need not even know how electricity works to
be certified, then this is a perfect market for supplies that are
missing essential functions.

For example, all outputs from a PC supply can be shorted together
without power supply damaged. Industry specs even define wire size
for that test. But this same required function may be missing in
'cheap and junky' power supplies. Those who did not learn technology
might blame the short instead of a human buyer for damage that must
never occur.

Yes standards do exist for PC power supplies. If a supply permits a
PC to interfere with an adjacent AM radio, then the power supply does
not conform to another industry standard. If a power supply is
'cheap and junky', then blame falls upon the human because those
standards exist.

On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:51:42 -0700, w_tom wrote:

On May 29, 10:24 am, "dnoyeB" wrote:
One wonders if you are in the military. You seem to think all
powersupplies 'must' conform to certain standards. No they do not have
to. They can be just as cheap and junky as their manufacturer desires them
to be.

Specifications for PC power supplies are quite specific. However
some clone power supplies are, instead, marketed to computer
assemblers who often don't even know how electricity works. These
power supplies may be missing essential functions required by those
specifications.

Only such body I am aware of is UL or United Laboratories. I dont think
all power supplies get the UL stamp of approval?

Anyway, the point is if its specified, it needs to be tested. I dont know
what body is validating that these supplies are meeting the stated
specifications. Do you?

Were you around when car amplifiers put out 100W per channel? and sound
more terrible than another one that puts out just 15W/ channel?

On May 30, 9:46 pm, "dnoyeB" wrote:
Only such body I am aware of is UL or United Laboratories. I dont think
all power supplies get the UL stamp of approval?

Anyway, the point is if its specified, it needs to be tested. I dont know
what body is validating that these supplies are meeting the stated
specifications. Do you?

UL does not care if a power supply even works. Their mandate is
human safety; that a power supply does not harm humans. If supply
destroys transistors - UL does not care. As long as destruction does
not harm humans, then supply can obtain UL approval.

Another standard is FCC Part 15. Supply need not meet FCC
requirements when not stated in written specs. A clone computer
assembler is responsible for compouter meeting those Part 15
requirements. Since many computer assemblers do not even know what
Part 15 is, then a supply manufacturer can 'forget' to include
essential filters; leaving computer assembler liable.

Intel demands a long list of requirements. Does the power supply
conform to those requirements? Again, responsibility lies with the
computer assembler. He must demand a long list of written
manufacturer specs. But many clone computer manufacturers know the
technical competence of their customers. If functions claimed on a
written spec sheets were missing, only then is a supply manufacturer
liable. Best to not provide any numerical specifications since so
many computer assemblers only buy on watts and price. Eyes glaze over
when many computer assemblers look at electrical parameters. Even A+
Certified technicians neither know what these functions are nor demand
those numerical specifications. North American clone computer
industry is ripe for dumping.

Explained are simplest tasks, tools, and numbers to answer the OPs
question. 200 volts could harm his computer and would be completely
ignored by a surge protector. This is simple stuff that every
responsible computer tech should know. Even A+ Certification does not
require such electrical knowledge. Therefore the OP is told a surge
protector would have eliminated overvoltage. No wonder a majority of
America's engineers are immigrants and foreigners. Too many computer
experts who don't even know how electricity works.

w_tom wrote:
On May 30, 9:46 pm, "dnoyeB" wrote:

Only such body I am aware of is UL or United Laboratories. I dont think
all power supplies get the UL stamp of approval?

Anyway, the point is if its specified, it needs to be tested. I dont know
what body is validating that these supplies are meeting the stated
specifications. Do you?


UL does not care if a power supply even works. Their mandate is
human safety; that a power supply does not harm humans. If supply
destroys transistors - UL does not care. As long as destruction does
not harm humans, then supply can obtain UL approval.

Another standard is FCC Part 15. Supply need not meet FCC
requirements when not stated in written specs. A clone computer
assembler is responsible for compouter meeting those Part 15
requirements. Since many computer assemblers do not even know what
Part 15 is, then a supply manufacturer can 'forget' to include
essential filters; leaving computer assembler liable.

Intel demands a long list of requirements. Does the power supply
conform to those requirements? Again, responsibility lies with the
computer assembler. He must demand a long list of written
manufacturer specs. But many clone computer manufacturers know the
technical competence of their customers. If functions claimed on a
written spec sheets were missing, only then is a supply manufacturer
liable. Best to not provide any numerical specifications since so
many computer assemblers only buy on watts and price. Eyes glaze over
when many computer assemblers look at electrical parameters. Even A+
Certified technicians neither know what these functions are nor demand
those numerical specifications. North American clone computer
industry is ripe for dumping.

Explained are simplest tasks, tools, and numbers to answer the OPs
question. 200 volts could harm his computer and would be completely
ignored by a surge protector. This is simple stuff that every
responsible computer tech should know. Even A+ Certification does not
require such electrical knowledge. Therefore the OP is told a surge
protector would have eliminated overvoltage. No wonder a majority of
America's engineers are immigrants and foreigners. Too many computer
experts who don't even know how electricity works.

Hi,
Stricter spec. is CE, the EU standard spec.

dnoyeB wrote:

On Sun, 27 May 2007 16:05:58 +0000, Tony Hwang wrote:


Jack wrote:

Hello,
I've blown a few power supplies on my home PC. The PC is connecting to a
working surge protector. It was suggested to me that I could have an
over-voltage problem. I thought a surge protector handled that. How would
I know if I have an over-voltage problem? does this make any sense?
Thanks.




Hi,
Is your PC PSU proper size? I use 500W one on my PC. My server has
750W one. Wonder if it is undersized El Cheapo? If you have voltage
problem, other appliances will have trouble too.


750W? You heating the room too? Undersized and el cheapo are not
synonomous. Get a quality power supply before you get one with a high
rating.
Hmmm,
So what do you know about PSUs? I used to design them on mil-spec.

On 30 May 2007 22:14:18 -0700, w_tom wrote:

On May 30, 9:46 pm, "dnoyeB" wrote:
Only such body I am aware of is UL or United Laboratories. I dont think
all power supplies get the UL stamp of approval?

Anyway, the point is if its specified, it needs to be tested. I dont know
what body is validating that these supplies are meeting the stated
specifications. Do you?

UL does not care if a power supply even works. Their mandate is
human safety; that a power supply does not harm humans. If supply
destroys transistors - UL does not care. As long as destruction does
not harm humans, then supply can obtain UL approval.

Another standard is FCC Part 15. Supply need not meet FCC
requirements when not stated in written specs. A clone computer
assembler is responsible for compouter meeting those Part 15
requirements. Since many computer assemblers do not even know what
Part 15 is, then a supply manufacturer can 'forget' to include
essential filters; leaving computer assembler liable.

Intel demands a long list of requirements. Does the power supply
conform to those requirements? Again, responsibility lies with the
computer assembler. He must demand a long list of written
manufacturer specs. But many clone computer manufacturers know the
technical competence of their customers. If functions claimed on a
written spec sheets were missing, only then is a supply manufacturer
liable. Best to not provide any numerical specifications since so
many computer assemblers only buy on watts and price. Eyes glaze over
when many computer assemblers look at electrical parameters. Even A+
Certified technicians neither know what these functions are nor demand
those numerical specifications. North American clone computer
industry is ripe for dumping.

Explained are simplest tasks, tools, and numbers to answer the OPs
question. 200 volts could harm his computer and would be completely
ignored by a surge protector. This is simple stuff that every
responsible computer tech should know. Even A+ Certification does not
require such electrical knowledge. Therefore the OP is told a surge
protector would have eliminated overvoltage. No wonder a majority of
America's engineers are immigrants and foreigners. Too many computer
experts who don't even know how electricity works.

not to mention.. someone in the thread stated something to the effect:
"if it has a fuse.. that's what it's there for.."
I wouldn't make fun of them if they ASKED if that
is what it's for. But when a person claims to know something..

On Jun 1, 9:12 am, "Chuck (in SC)" wrote:
not to mention.. someone in the thread stated something to the effect:
"if it has a fuse.. that's what it's there for.."
I wouldn't make fun of them if they ASKED if that
is what it's for. But when a person claims to know something..

Purpose of a fuse: to protect human life. First an appliance is
damaged. Then the resulting excessive current threatens to create a
fire. So the fuse blows to disconnect damaged equipments.

The numbers. Electronics can be damaged in microseconds. Fuses
take milliseconds to blow. The fuse does not protect transistors.
The fuse protects human life after damage has occurred. If no
numbers, then suspect junk science reasoning.

Many power supplies have no fuses. When power supply's output is
shorted, then what avoids a fire or damage? Electronic circuits
inside a power supply make that fuse unnecessary.

w_tom wrote:
On Jun 1, 9:12 am, "Chuck (in SC)" wrote:
not to mention.. someone in the thread stated something to the
effect: "if it has a fuse.. that's what it's there for.."
I wouldn't make fun of them if they ASKED if that
is what it's for. But when a person claims to know something..

Purpose of a fuse: to protect human life. First an appliance is
damaged. Then the resulting excessive current threatens to create a
fire. So the fuse blows to disconnect damaged equipments.

The numbers. Electronics can be damaged in microseconds. Fuses
take milliseconds to blow. The fuse does not protect transistors.
The fuse protects human life after damage has occurred. If no
numbers, then suspect junk science reasoning.

Many power supplies have no fuses. When power supply's output is
shorted, then what avoids a fire or damage? Electronic circuits
inside a power supply make that fuse unnecessary.

Oh, wow! Show me ANY power supply running off the mains that does not have
a fuse/breaker of some sort. It might not be visible and might not be
changeable, but it's there.

I challenge anyone to show me such a supply.

Pop`

terry wrote:


Which reminds me ........................

In North America what are the permissible plus and minus percentages
for the nominal 230/115 volts supplied to our homes???????????????????

Is it something like plus 10 per cent and minus 5 percent or
something? Or maybe wider limts than that?
Assuming say plus 10% then our domeatic nominal 115 could go to around
127 volts and the 230 to 253, (both RMS).
At minus, say 5%, the voltages could be about 109 and 218.

I know this issue came up when the Europeans (Eupean Common Market
etc. who use 230 (50 hertz) volts for just about everything
domestically, including some 3 phase, set up +/- voltage standards to
be used throughout the varous countries. In some cases that meant they
did not have to actually change anything. In others they merely
adjusted transformer taps etc. All countries are required to keep
their voltage variations within the agreed limits. Interesting that a
nominal 2.5 kilowatt electric kettle, on the European system will, at
230 volts consume 10.9 amps. At plus 10%, 253 volts, it will consume
almost 12 amps and boil that much faster!

Japan, although they manufacture gear for all voltage markets,
domestically, AFIK, use closer to 100 volts nominal?



Try:
http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdf..._tolerance.pdf
from Pacific Gas & Electric - about 200K

--
bud--

Bud-- wrote:
terry wrote:


Which reminds me ........................

In North America what are the permissible plus and minus percentages
for the nominal 230/115 volts supplied to our
homes??????????????????? Is it something like plus 10 per cent and minus
5 percent or
something? Or maybe wider limts than that?
Assuming say plus 10% then our domeatic nominal 115 could go to
around 127 volts and the 230 to 253, (both RMS).
At minus, say 5%, the voltages could be about 109 and 218.

I know this issue came up when the Europeans (Eupean Common Market
etc. who use 230 (50 hertz) volts for just about everything
domestically, including some 3 phase, set up +/- voltage standards to
be used throughout the varous countries. In some cases that meant
they did not have to actually change anything. In others they merely
adjusted transformer taps etc. All countries are required to keep
their voltage variations within the agreed limits. Interesting that a
nominal 2.5 kilowatt electric kettle, on the European system will, at
230 volts consume 10.9 amps. At plus 10%, 253 volts, it will consume
almost 12 amps and boil that much faster!

Japan, although they manufacture gear for all voltage markets,
domestically, AFIK, use closer to 100 volts nominal?



Try:
http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdf..._tolerance.pdf
from Pacific Gas & Electric - about 200K

Yes, Japan uses 100V ac nominals. It's 50Hz in the north, and 60 Hz in the
south IIRC. No, I'm not mixing it up with Korea.

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:13:27 -0700, w_tom wrote:

On Jun 1, 9:12 am, "Chuck (in SC)" wrote:
not to mention.. someone in the thread stated something to the effect:
"if it has a fuse.. that's what it's there for.."
I wouldn't make fun of them if they ASKED if that
is what it's for. But when a person claims to know something..

Purpose of a fuse: to protect human life. First an appliance is
damaged. Then the resulting excessive current threatens to create a
fire. So the fuse blows to disconnect damaged equipments.


This is essentially true. An side effect though is to protect equipment
from permanent damage. However, this side effect is usually only employed
on higher quality merchandise.


The numbers. Electronics can be damaged in microseconds. Fuses
take milliseconds to blow. The fuse does not protect transistors.
The fuse protects human life after damage has occurred. If no
numbers, then suspect junk science reasoning.


Fuses definitely do not protect electronics, but
they can protect circuit board traces.

Many power supplies have no fuses. When power supply's output is
shorted, then what avoids a fire or damage? Electronic circuits
inside a power supply make that fuse unnecessary.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 01:06:52 +0000, Pop` wrote:

w_tom wrote:


Many power supplies have no fuses. When power supply's output is
shorted, then what avoids a fire or damage? Electronic circuits
inside a power supply make that fuse unnecessary.

Oh, wow! Show me ANY power supply running off the mains that does not have
a fuse/breaker of some sort. It might not be visible and might not be
changeable, but it's there.

I challenge anyone to show me such a supply.


He did not quite say that. he said 'electonic circuits' inside a power
supply make that fuse unnecessary. That circuitry is a form of fusing.
Some companies/industries are not satisfied to do this. We try it in the
auto industry a lot, but OEMs are concerned. Transistors can still
fail-short and this makes it hard to pass cleanly an FMEA (failure modes
and effects analysis) review.

Tony Hwang wrote:

Is your PC PSU proper size? I use 500W one on my PC. My server has
750W one. Wonder if it is undersized El Cheapo? If you have voltage
problem, other appliances will have trouble too.

Both of those are way overkill for most machines. I've got a good
quality 330W in one machine, a 220W in the other. Both have been fine
for many years.

You only need a huge power supply if you are driving a high-end graphics
card or many hard drives.

Chris

In article ,
Chris Friesen wrote:
Is your PC PSU proper size? I use 500W one on my PC. My server has
750W one. Wonder if it is undersized El Cheapo? If you have voltage
problem, other appliances will have trouble too.

Both of those are way overkill for most machines. I've got a good
quality 330W in one machine, a 220W in the other. Both have been fine
for many years.

Indeed. For comparison, consider this server from Apple:

Two 3 GHz dual-core Xeon processors
32 GB of RAM
3 300 GB 15000 RPM SAS drives

It's got a 650W supply. Or how about this one from Pogo Linux?

Four 2.8 GHz dual-core Opteron processors
64 GB of RAM
5 SCSI hard disks
12 case fans

(I'm not bothering to list things like CD drives, ethernet, etc, on any
of those).

That's got 850W. He must have one hell of a server if he really needs
750W.

My home server has used 27 KWh over the last 225 hours, so that works
out to 120W (it runs 24/7).

For a home non-server machine, 500W *may* be reasonable. A high-end
graphics card might use 120W. So, figure two of those, in some kind of
SLI setup or something like that. Now throw in a pair of fast dual-core
processors, lots of RAM, high end sound card, a couple big fast disks,
and you could maybe need 500W.

--
--Tim Smith