Neither an abortion nor an unplanned childbirth is palatable.

Once a woman's pregnant, the damage has been done.

In the abortion debate, both sides should focus on the use of birth
control, before a pregnancy occurs.

If people use two forms of birth control there is virtually no risk of
pregnancy.

Hormonal & Condoms
Hormonal & Pull-Out
Hormonal & Diaphragm
Condoms & Pull-Out
Condoms & Diaphragm
Diaphragm & Pull-Out

Risk of accidental pregnancy BEST case scenario assuming PERFECT use
Per Year (assuming 100 sex acts) Per Act
No protection 8 in 10 (1 in 1.25) 1 in 125
Condoms 1 in 50 1 in 5,000
Birth Control 1 in 333 1 in 33,300
Condoms & Birth Control 1 in 1,665,000 1 in 166,500,000

Given 100,000,000 women of child bearing age (ages 14-59),
Unplanned pregnancies result: 100,000,000/1,665,000= 60

Risk of accidental pregnancy WORST case scenario assuming TYPICAL use
Per Year (assuming 80 sex acts) Per Act
No protection 8 in 10 (1 in 1.25) 1 in 125
Condoms 1 in 6.6 1 in 533
Birth Control 1 in 12.5 1 in 1,000
Condoms & Birth Control 1 in 6,666 1 in 533,333

533*1000=533,333
533,333/80=6,666

Unplanned pregnancies result: 100,000,000/6,666=15,000

Comparisons of pregnancy rates of different contraceptives are from:
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040215/853.html ; scroll down to "Table 2"

Risk of accidental pregnancy WORST case scenario assuming TYPICAL use
of the 2 riskiest methods
Per Year (assuming 80 sex acts) Per Act
Diaphragm 1 in 6.25 1 in 500
Pull-Out 1 in 3.7 1 in 296
Diaphragm & Pull-Out 1 in 1,850 1 in 148,000

Calculation is 148,000/80=1,850

As you can see, even with combining the two riskiest methods of birth
control, you are still safer than if you get a vasectomy - 1 in 1,000
per year or a tubal ligation - 1 in 200 per year.

Unplanned pregnancies result: 100,000,000/1,850=54,054


It's just like rolling two 30 sided die. The chance that one comes up
with a negative number is 1 in 30. The chance that both come up with
the one negative number is 1 in 900. If you roll each die 10 times,
the chance that one comes up with a negative number is 10 in 30 or 1
in 3. The chance that both come up with a negative number is 10 in
900 or 1 in 90. Not 10 in 9.

Chance of getting 1 negative number out of 30, rolling two 30 sided
die
Per Set (assuming 10 rolls) Per roll
Die 1 1 in 3 1 in 30
Die 2 1 in 3 1 in 30
Die 1 & 2 combined 1 in 90 1 in 900
- chance both come up negative


Currently there are an average 1 million abortions per year
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0764203.html
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/abortionstats.html

48% of all U.S. pregnancies (and 78% of teen pregnancies) are
unplanned.
That's roughly 2,500,000
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/lif...lannedpreg.htm

And 4 million new babies are born per year
http://www.census.gov/population/soc...t94/htab02.txt

The below statistics give you an idea of how much safer contraception
makes us, and when compared to the numbers above, specifically how
much safer two forms of contraception make us. Of course, not all
women are having sex, so all estimates of unplanned pregnancy above
and below are exaggerated.

unplanned pregnancies using condoms and hormonal birth control
(perfect use): 60
(typical use): 15,000
unplanned pregnancies result with no contraception: 100,000,000/1.25 =
80,000,000
unplanned pregnancies result with condoms alone
(perfect use): 100,000,000/50 = 2,000,000
(typical use) 100,000,000/6.667 = 15,000,000
unplanned pregnancies result with birth control alone
(perfect use): 100,000,000/333= 300,300
(typical use) = 100,000,000/12.5 = 8,000,000

The reason sex has often been proclaimed to be immoral is specifically
because it takes a risk with another person's life. The baby's.
Unsafe sex is immoral. I have shown above that safe sex is no more
immoral than transporting your baby is a car. People transport their
children in cars, without their "informed consent" and we assume that
nearly all children when older approve of this, thus I conclude the
unborn baby accepts the small risk of being conceived unplanned in
exchange for a sex life, just as we accept the risk of driving in
exchange for the convenience of travel.

But failing to promote and provide birth control is one of the most
immoral things in the world. Of the 4 million babies born per year,
1.5 million, or 38% of all newborns are unplanned. This must surely
have a demonstrative effect upon the socio-economic status of our
society.


--------------
STD INFORMATION:

10 most common STDs

Type of disease:

Herpes - Skin / Virus
Warts/HPV - Skin / Virus
HIV - Blood / Virus
Molluscum Contagiosum - Skin / Virus

Gonorrhea - Bacteria
Chlamydia/NGU - Bacteria
Trichomoniasis - Bacteria
Crabs - Skin / Parasite
Scabies - Skin / Parasite
Syphilis - Bacteria

You can get tested for at least four of these, Gonorrhea-urine,
Chlamydia-urine, Syphilis-blood, and HIV-blood. A Trichomoniasis test
requires a wet mount or a culture. There are blood tests for Herpes,
but they aren't normally given. You can check your partner's genitals
for the five others; Herpes, Warts, Molluscum Contagiosum, Crabs, and
Scabies. However it's possible that these diseases could be present
even if not noticeable.

The last six on the list are entirely curable and condoms provide some
protection against nearly all of them. If you are sexually active and
not monogamous, you should have a test for Gonorrhea and Chlamydia
every six months because they may not have symptoms, and if left
untreated, they could cause PID Pelvic Inflammatory Disease in women
and epididymitis in men which can cause infertility. At the same
time you may be tested for Syphilis and HIV which are relatively
uncommon. Syphilis is curable, but can cause serious conditions if
not treated. The risk of HIV is decreased by 90% if you wear a
condom. The risk is even less if your partner has had a recent HIV
test. There is now a new vaccine against Warts/HPV which decreases
the risk of genital warts by 90%. Genital Warts and Molluscum
Contagiosum are not curable, but treatable, and the body generally
clears theses viruses within five years or sooner. Hopefully there
will soon be a vaccine for Herpes.

If you choose to maintain multiple long term relationships, or open
relationships, tell your partner this before you have sex with them
and then they won't be ****ed at you.

Two others:
Bacterial Vaginosis is _not_ an STD but may occur in women caused by
something new in the vagina such as a penis which may upset the normal
balance of the vagina.

And Hepatitis B there is a vaccine you may consider getting, and there
is a blood test.

A condom decreases the risk of these two as well. The crown skinless
skin condom feels as good as condomless sex you can buy it he
http://www.condomdepot.com/product/d...d/183/pid/2105

Here's a good website with info on STD's: http://www.epigee.org/health/stds.html

On May 5, 8:13 am, "Steve" wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
Neither an abortion nor an unplanned childbirth is palatable.
Once a woman's pregnant, the damage has been done.
In the abortion debate, both sides should focus on the use of birth
control, before a pregnancy occurs.
If people use two forms of birth control there is virtually no risk of
pregnancy.
Hormonal & Condoms
Hormonal & Pull-Out
Hormonal & Diaphragm
Condoms & Pull-Out
Condoms & Diaphragm
Diaphragm & Pull-Out

You can scratch anything that includes "pull out" as being an effective form
of birth control. You may as well cross your fingers and say three hail
marry's.


That's not actually true. You obviously didn't get the point of my
post.

While the pull-out method is one of the least effective birth control
methods, when combined with another birth control method, the level
of effectiveness is literally staggering.

Furthermore, the pull-out method does have some merit in being better
than no method at all.

Comparisons of pregnancy rates of different contraceptives are from:
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040215/853.html ; scroll down to "Table 2"

Risk of Accidental Pregnancy per year
Typical use Perfect use
No Method 1 in 1.25 (8 in 10) 1 in 1.25 (8 in 10)
Pull-Out Method 1 in 3.7 1 in 25
Diaphragm 1 in 6.25 1 in 16
Condoms 1 in 6.7 1 in 50
Hormonal Birth
Control Methods 1 in 12.5 1 in 333

Typical use Perfect use
Condoms
& Hormonal Birth Control 1 in 6,666 1 in 1,665,000
Pull-Out & Hormonal 1 in 3,700 1 in 832,500
Diaphragm & Hormonal 1 in 6,250 1 in 532,800
Diaphragm & Condoms 1 in 3,350 1 in 80,000
Pull-Out & Condoms 1 in 1,983 1 in 125,000
Diaphragm & Pull-Out 1 in 1,850 1 in 40,000

As you can see, sex with two forms of birth control is not immoral.
Sex with one or no forms of birth control is immoral.

Calculating for three forms:

Typical use Perfect use
Condoms/Hormonal
/Diaphragm 1 in 3,350,000 1 in 2.664 Billion
Condoms/Hormonal
/Pull-Out 1 in 1,983,200 1 in 4.1625 Billion
Hormonal/Pull-Out
/Diaphragm 1 in 1,850,000 1 in 1.332 Billion
Condoms/Pull-Out
/Diaphragm 1 in 991,600 1 in 200,000,000

All Four Typical use Perfect use
Condoms/Hormonal
/Diaphragm
/Pull-Out 1 in 991,600,000 1 in 66.6 Billion


Of course, three hail marry's might help too.


The Hail Mary Prayer


A prayer for the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, mother of
Jesus Christ.


Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

On 6 May 2007 10:37:06 -0700, wrote:

Neither an abortion nor an unplanned childbirth is palatable.

Once a woman's pregnant, the damage has been done.

Children are "damage" ??? That's a worrisome way of
looking at your fellow human beings.

In the abortion debate, both sides should focus on the use of birth
control, before a pregnancy occurs.

If people use two forms of birth control there is virtually no risk of
pregnancy.

Hormonal & Condoms
Hormonal & Pull-Out
Hormonal & Diaphragm
Condoms & Pull-Out
Condoms & Diaphragm
Diaphragm & Pull-Out

Risk of accidental pregnancy BEST case scenario assuming PERFECT use
Per Year (assuming 100 sex acts) Per Act
No protection 8 in 10 (1 in 1.25) 1 in 125
Condoms 1 in 50 1 in 5,000
Birth Control 1 in 333 1 in 33,300
Condoms & Birth Control 1 in 1,665,000 1 in 166,500,000

Given 100,000,000 women of child bearing age (ages 14-59),
Unplanned pregnancies result: 100,000,000/1,665,000= 60

Most of the 'anti-abortion' fanatics I encounter are just
using "abortion" as a proxy for a more general erotophobic
attitude. They'd rather people (except maybe themselves)
simply NOT HAVE ANY SEX. It's the old definition of a
'puritan' here, someone who lies awake at night worried
that somebody, somewhere, might be having a good time.
They equate pain and self-denial with "superiority" and
"holiness". Some kind of mental illness IMHO ...

In any case, in this light, discussion of effective
contraception with the anti-abortionists will yeild
a response opposite to what you may expect. To them,
contraceptives = "sex for fun" and fun is BAD. Better
to scourge youself with a cat-o-nine-tails whilst
quoting scripture ...

On May 7, 4:36 am, (Luminoso) wrote:
On 6 May 2007 10:37:06 -0700, wrote:

Neither an abortion nor an unplanned childbirth is palatable.

Once a woman's pregnant, the damage has been done.

Children are "damage" ??? That's a worrisome way of
looking at your fellow human beings.





In the abortion debate, both sides should focus on the use of birth
control, before a pregnancy occurs.

If people use two forms of birth control there is virtually no risk of
pregnancy.

Hormonal & Condoms
Hormonal & Pull-Out
Hormonal & Diaphragm
Condoms & Pull-Out
Condoms & Diaphragm
Diaphragm & Pull-Out

Risk of accidental pregnancy BEST case scenario assuming PERFECT use
Per Year (assuming 100 sex acts) Per Act
No protection 8 in 10 (1 in 1.25) 1 in 125
Condoms 1 in 50 1 in 5,000
Birth Control 1 in 333 1 in 33,300
Condoms & Birth Control 1 in 1,665,000 1 in 166,500,000

Given 100,000,000 women of child bearing age (ages 14-59),
Unplanned pregnancies result: 100,000,000/1,665,000= 60

Most of the 'anti-abortion' fanatics I encounter are just
using "abortion" as a proxy for a more general erotophobic
attitude. They'd rather people (except maybe themselves)
simply NOT HAVE ANY SEX. It's the old definition of a
'puritan' here, someone who lies awake at night worried
that somebody, somewhere, might be having a good time.
They equate pain and self-denial with "superiority" and
"holiness". Some kind of mental illness IMHO ...

In any case, in this light, discussion of effective
contraception with the anti-abortionists will yeild
a response opposite to what you may expect. To them,
contraceptives = "sex for fun" and fun is BAD. Better
to scourge youself with a cat-o-nine-tails whilst
quoting scripture ...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Abortion kills a human being, one dependent on the mother granted, but
then so is any newborn infant for quite some time. A very young child
cannot feed itself, turn on the tap, clean itself or anything else.

We in the Christian camp believe in a judgement. Basically that is
the point of it all. Killing unborn children is a sure way to earn
God's wrath, as much as killing adults is a sure way to earn such
judgement. Anybody who has an abortion will be convicted of murder in
the divine court, regardless of motive. The devil is trying very hard
to get it legitimised, as he knows he can lay claim to a great many
souls because of abortion. Men legalising it will not change God's
mind. All it will do is increase the number of eternal condemnations.

The problem is that we don't seem to see the judgement in action now -
injustice and cruelty often seem to get away with it. In the end
however Christ rose from the dead, after Himself being a victim of
injustice, having been done to a cruel death by other men. That if
you like is the guarantee that justice will be done, but only after
death, which comes to us all without exception. That's the risk we
take.

His words to the Pharisees however were "How can you hope to escape
being condemned to Hell?"

Where have the Pharisees been for the last 2000 years?

What anti-abortionists are trying to avoid is not just the destruction
of the unborn children, but also the judgement which will descend on
all those party to abortion when they die, IF THEY HAVE NOT REPENTED.
They can repent, and I wrote in another post that in the Catholic
church, abortion brings instant excommunication. However it can be
forgiven and the excommunication lifted by the local post.

Discussing contraceptive methods misses the point. I am a Catholic by
choice, and I for one disagree with the church's ruling on the Pill.
But at the same time, whether one uses a contraceptive or not, killing
an unborn child will incur God's judgement. That's what we're on
about.

On May 6, 9:14 pm, wrote:

What anti-abortionists are trying to avoid is not just the destruction
of the unborn children, but also the judgement which will descend on
all those party to abortion when they die, IF THEY HAVE NOT REPENTED.
They can repent, and I wrote in another post that in the Catholic
church, abortion brings instant excommunication. However it can be
forgiven and the excommunication lifted by the local post.

Why do anti-abortionists want to put women in jail for having an
abortion?

--
Ron

On May 7, 3:00 pm, Ron Peterson wrote:
On May 6, 9:14 pm, wrote:

What anti-abortionists are trying to avoid is not just the destruction
of the unborn children, but also the judgement which will descend on
all those party to abortion when they die, IF THEY HAVE NOT REPENTED.
They can repent, and I wrote in another post that in the Catholic
church, abortion brings instant excommunication. However it can be
forgiven and the excommunication lifted by the local post.

Why do anti-abortionists want to put women in jail for having an
abortion?

--
Ron

Morally it's murder. However there are always more parties than one
in an abortion, just as the case of the woman caught in adultery, as
recorded in the Gospels.

Personally I don't think women who have an abortion do so from a
position of callousness, in most cases. No doubt there are a few who
couldn't care less, but I doubt if that's the attitude in most cases.

The situation won't change without a spiritual change of heart.

For the record, I believe God really punishes men who father children,
sow their wild oats, and then abandon them. I suspect they cop a far
more severe judgement than women who have abortions.

On 6 May 2007 22:47:52 -0700, wrote:

On May 7, 3:00 pm, Ron Peterson wrote:
On May 6, 9:14 pm, wrote:

What anti-abortionists are trying to avoid is not just the destruction
of the unborn children, but also the judgement which will descend on
all those party to abortion when they die, IF THEY HAVE NOT REPENTED.
They can repent, and I wrote in another post that in the Catholic
church, abortion brings instant excommunication. However it can be
forgiven and the excommunication lifted by the local post.

Why do anti-abortionists want to put women in jail for having an
abortion?

--
Ron

Morally it's murder.

Only to pig-ignorant religious fanatics.

However there are always more parties than one
in an abortion, just as the case of the woman caught in adultery, as
recorded in the Gospels.

What the **** have the gospels got to do with it, moron?

All it does is tell us you have nothing whatsoever to say on the
subject.

Personally I don't think women who have an abortion do so from a
position of callousness, in most cases. No doubt there are a few who

Then you don't think.

couldn't care less, but I doubt if that's the attitude in most cases.

The situation won't change without a spiritual change of heart.

Which ain't going to happen as long as you lie about them being
murderers.

For the record, I believe God really punishes men who father children,

What have your deluded fantasies got to do with anything, moron?

sow their wild oats, and then abandon them. I suspect they cop a far
more severe judgement than women who have abortions.

Only in your masturbatory fantasies.

On 6 May 2007 19:14:48 -0700, wrote:

Discussing contraceptive methods misses the point. I am a Catholic by
choice, and I for one disagree with the church's ruling on the Pill.
But at the same time, whether one uses a contraceptive or not, killing
an unborn child will incur God's judgement. That's what we're on
about.

No. YOU miss the point. What your religion has to say about it is
irrelevant in the real world outside your religion.

It's none of its business.

Especially when all it does is lie about "killing an unborn child".

And if it makes its believers stupid enough to cite God outside the
religion then this is a tacit admission that they have no case because
otherwise they would gave given real reasons.

You have to give real world reasons why everybody else should treat a
zygote as a child.

Which you obviously can't.

In article . com,
wrote:
On May 7, 4:36 am, (Luminoso) wrote:
On 6 May 2007 10:37:06 -0700, wrote:

Neither an abortion nor an unplanned childbirth is palatable.

Once a woman's pregnant, the damage has been done.

Children are "damage" ??? That's a worrisome way of
looking at your fellow human beings.


It depends on whose point of view.


In the abortion debate, both sides should focus on the use of birth
control, before a pregnancy occurs.

I very definitely agree.

If people use two forms of birth control there is virtually no risk of
pregnancy.

Your calculations make unwarranted assumptions. Also,
there arer problems with all of the forms. This does
not mean that none should be used.

................

Abortion kills a human being, one dependent on the mother granted, but
then so is any newborn infant for quite some time. A very young child
cannot feed itself, turn on the tap, clean itself or anything else.

There is no agreement on when the fetus is human.

We in the Christian camp believe in a judgement.

You may believe anything you want, but attempting to
impose those beliefs is in my opinion committing an
extremely great sin. And to use those beliefs to
require or forbid others from doing things should
be deprived of any right to speak on them.

Basically that is
the point of it all. Killing unborn children is a sure way to earn
God's wrath, as much as killing adults is a sure way to earn such
judgement.

This is your opinion; we have absolutely no way of
knowing whether that is so. You may think that you
have God's word, but God did not dictate it, and it
has gone through many revisions. Besides, God's
judgment will be what it will be, and you have no
right to dictate to people because of your opinion
about what will happen to them from God. What if
you are wrong?

The rest of the preaching has been deleted.


--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

On May 8, 3:12 am, (Herman Rubin) wrote:
In article . com,

wrote:
On May 7, 4:36 am, (Luminoso) wrote:
On 6 May 2007 10:37:06 -0700, wrote:
Neither an abortion nor an unplanned childbirth is palatable.
Once a woman's pregnant, the damage has been done.
Children are "damage" ??? That's a worrisome way of
looking at your fellow human beings.

It depends on whose point of view.

In the abortion debate, both sides should focus on the use of birth
control, before a pregnancy occurs.

I very definitely agree.

If people use two forms of birth control there is virtually no risk of
pregnancy.

Your calculations make unwarranted assumptions. Also,
there arer problems with all of the forms. This does
not mean that none should be used.

................

Abortion kills a human being, one dependent on the mother granted, but
then so is any newborn infant for quite some time. A very young child
cannot feed itself, turn on the tap, clean itself or anything else.

There is no agreement on when the fetus is human.

We in the Christian camp believe in a judgement.

You may believe anything you want, but attempting to
impose those beliefs is in my opinion committing an
extremely great sin. And to use those beliefs to
require or forbid others from doing things should
be deprived of any right to speak on them.

Basically that is

the point of it all. Killing unborn children is a sure way to earn
God's wrath, as much as killing adults is a sure way to earn such
judgement.

This is your opinion; we have absolutely no way of
knowing whether that is so. You may think that you
have God's word, but God did not dictate it, and it
has gone through many revisions. Besides, God's
judgment will be what it will be, and you have no
right to dictate to people because of your opinion
about what will happen to them from God. What if
you are wrong?

The rest of the preaching has been deleted.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

What gives you or anybody else the right to kill unborn children
without asking their opinion? What if you are wrong?

On May 6, 1:36 pm, (Luminoso) wrote:
On 6 May 2007 10:37:06 -0700, wrote:

Neither an abortion nor an unplanned childbirth is palatable.

Once a woman's pregnant, the damage has been done.

Children are "damage" ??? That's a worrisome way of
looking at your fellow human beings.



In the abortion debate, both sides should focus on the use of birth
control, before a pregnancy occurs.

If people use two forms of birth control there is virtually no risk of
pregnancy.

Hormonal & Condoms
Hormonal & Pull-Out
Hormonal & Diaphragm
Condoms & Pull-Out
Condoms & Diaphragm
Diaphragm & Pull-Out

Risk of accidental pregnancy BEST case scenario assuming PERFECT use
Per Year (assuming 100 sex acts) Per Act
No protection 8 in 10 (1 in 1.25) 1 in 125
Condoms 1 in 50 1 in 5,000
Birth Control 1 in 333 1 in 33,300
Condoms & Birth Control 1 in 1,665,000 1 in 166,500,000

Given 100,000,000 women of child bearing age (ages 14-59),
Unplanned pregnancies result: 100,000,000/1,665,000= 60

Most of the 'anti-abortion' fanatics I encounter are just
using "abortion" as a proxy for a more general erotophobic
attitude. They'd rather people (except maybe themselves)
simply NOT HAVE ANY SEX. It's the old definition of a
'puritan' here, someone who lies awake at night worried
that somebody, somewhere, might be having a good time.
They equate pain and self-denial with "superiority" and
"holiness". Some kind of mental illness IMHO ...

In any case, in this light, discussion of effective
contraception with the anti-abortionists will yeild
a response opposite to what you may expect. To them,
contraceptives = "sex for fun" and fun is BAD. Better
to scourge youself with a cat-o-nine-tails whilst
quoting scripture ...

You are obviously young.

On 7 May 2007 21:39:44 -0700, wrote:

On May 8, 3:12 am, (Herman Rubin) wrote:
In article . com,

wrote:
On May 7, 4:36 am, (Luminoso) wrote:
On 6 May 2007 10:37:06 -0700, wrote:
Neither an abortion nor an unplanned childbirth is palatable.
Once a woman's pregnant, the damage has been done.
Children are "damage" ??? That's a worrisome way of
looking at your fellow human beings.

It depends on whose point of view.

In the abortion debate, both sides should focus on the use of birth
control, before a pregnancy occurs.

I very definitely agree.

If people use two forms of birth control there is virtually no risk of
pregnancy.

Your calculations make unwarranted assumptions. Also,
there arer problems with all of the forms. This does
not mean that none should be used.

................

Abortion kills a human being, one dependent on the mother granted, but
then so is any newborn infant for quite some time. A very young child
cannot feed itself, turn on the tap, clean itself or anything else.

There is no agreement on when the fetus is human.

We in the Christian camp believe in a judgement.

You may believe anything you want, but attempting to
impose those beliefs is in my opinion committing an
extremely great sin. And to use those beliefs to
require or forbid others from doing things should
be deprived of any right to speak on them.

Basically that is

the point of it all. Killing unborn children is a sure way to earn
God's wrath, as much as killing adults is a sure way to earn such
judgement.

This is your opinion; we have absolutely no way of
knowing whether that is so. You may think that you
have God's word, but God did not dictate it, and it
has gone through many revisions. Besides, God's
judgment will be what it will be, and you have no
right to dictate to people because of your opinion
about what will happen to them from God. What if
you are wrong?

The rest of the preaching has been deleted.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

What gives you or anybody else the right to kill unborn children
without asking their opinion? What if you are wrong?

Actually they most resemble parasites.

Be fruitfull and multiply has done its bit. The world is now drowning
in humans and we're causing all the other creatures of God to go
extinct. We're supposed to be responsible for the world, not wipe it
out and pave it over.

We need less people in the world, not more. It's a sin to keep
producing more and more people. We should start by getting rid of
rigid assholes who can't figure that out. Any religion that bans
reasonable birth control like condoms should be wiped out first.

In article . com,
wrote:
On May 8, 3:12 am, (Herman Rubin) wrote:
In article . com,

wrote:
On May 7, 4:36 am, (Luminoso) wrote:
On 6 May 2007 10:37:06 -0700, wrote:

................

There is no agreement on when the fetus is human.

We in the Christian camp believe in a judgement.

You may believe anything you want, but attempting to
impose those beliefs is in my opinion committing an
extremely great sin. And to use those beliefs to
require or forbid others from doing things should
be deprived of any right to speak on them.

Basically that is
the point of it all. Killing unborn children is a sure way to earn
God's wrath, as much as killing adults is a sure way to earn such
judgement.

This is your opinion; we have absolutely no way of
knowing whether that is so. You may think that you
have God's word, but God did not dictate it, and it
has gone through many revisions. Besides, God's
judgment will be what it will be, and you have no
right to dictate to people because of your opinion
about what will happen to them from God. What if
you are wrong?

The rest of the preaching has been deleted.


What gives you or anybody else the right to kill unborn children
without asking their opinion? What if you are wrong?

There are more problems than you think. As for asking
their opinion, we cannot, and I may very well be wrong.

Augustine considered that the fetus became human at
40 days. The Jewish opinion is that the fetus is
not human until birth, and that abortion is not
murder, but is not always justified.

The Greeks and Romans considered the Jews to be
immoral because they did not remove support from
their deformed children. They also considered
the problem of overpopulation, which most religions
seem to ignore. The commandment to reproduce
only asks to fill the earth, not to keep going
thereafter.

What is moral is totally unclear, and this is
why libertarians reduce the obstacles to the
initiation of force or fraud against others.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

On 9 May 2007 21:27:58 -0400, (Herman
Rubin) wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:
On May 8, 3:12 am, (Herman Rubin) wrote:
In article . com,

wrote:
On May 7, 4:36 am, (Luminoso) wrote:
On 6 May 2007 10:37:06 -0700, wrote:

................

There is no agreement on when the fetus is human.

We in the Christian camp believe in a judgement.

You may believe anything you want, but attempting to
impose those beliefs is in my opinion committing an
extremely great sin. And to use those beliefs to
require or forbid others from doing things should
be deprived of any right to speak on them.

Basically that is
the point of it all. Killing unborn children is a sure way to earn
God's wrath, as much as killing adults is a sure way to earn such
judgement.

This is your opinion; we have absolutely no way of
knowing whether that is so. You may think that you
have God's word, but God did not dictate it, and it
has gone through many revisions. Besides, God's
judgment will be what it will be, and you have no
right to dictate to people because of your opinion
about what will happen to them from God. What if
you are wrong?

The rest of the preaching has been deleted.


What gives you or anybody else the right to kill unborn children
without asking their opinion? What if you are wrong?

There are more problems than you think. As for asking
their opinion, we cannot, and I may very well be wrong.

Augustine considered that the fetus became human at
40 days. The Jewish opinion is that the fetus is
not human until birth, and that abortion is not
murder, but is not always justified.

The Greeks and Romans considered the Jews to be
immoral because they did not remove support from
their deformed children. They also considered
the problem of overpopulation, which most religions
seem to ignore. The commandment to reproduce
only asks to fill the earth, not to keep going
thereafter.

What is moral is totally unclear, and this is
why libertarians reduce the obstacles to the
initiation of force or fraud against others.


Trying to use logic on someone who understands only their faith is,
well, not logical.