This is a follow up to the recent thread. I live in Northern NJ. So far, 3
different plumbers I talked to all quoted the same exact price of $350 to
replace existing crank-style washing machine valves with a Watts single
lever valve. Hard to believe this costs so much, since somebody here said
it is only going to take an hour to do and the part only cost $33 or less
and little bit of extra copper piping needed can't cost that much. I
suppose I could get a handyman to do this for a lot less but then this
person wouldn't be a licensed plumber....is it worth trying to save a couple
hundred by not using a licensed plumber?

The way I want it installed (described in next paragraph) doesn't involve
cutting into drywall. Just want to confirm this doesn't go against any
codes:

At some point (who knows when) somebody installed a single-handle watts
valve in my mom's unit. I'm looking to have mine done the same way since no
drywall work is involved. There are two eschuteons (sic?) against the wall
with about 3/4" exposed pipe sticking out. At my Mom's condo, it looks
like they removed the old valves and then added downward elbows and then two
sideward elbows and two small sections of horizontal pipe leading from the
sideward elbows which into the watts valve from the sides. Only difference
in her condo is that the pipes sticking out of the wall are 5 1/2" inches a
part vs. mine being 9", so that would mean that mine would simply need more
horizontal pipe. One of my pipes coming out of the wall is around an inch
higher than the other, but the same was true for my moms so I guess this
isn't going to be problematic.

There is nothing about that is goes against any codes, right?

Thanks,

Jay

On Mar 26, 1:55 pm, "jay-n-123" wrote:
This is a follow up to the recent thread. I live in Northern NJ. So far, 3
different plumbers I talked to all quoted the same exact price of $350 to
replace existing crank-style washing machine valves with a Watts single
lever valve. Hard to believe this costs so much, since somebody here said
it is only going to take an hour to do and the part only cost $33 or less
and little bit of extra copper piping needed can't cost that much. I
suppose I could get a handyman to do this for a lot less but then this
person wouldn't be a licensed plumber....is it worth trying to save a couple
hundred by not using a licensed plumber?

The way I want it installed (described in next paragraph) doesn't involve
cutting into drywall. Just want to confirm this doesn't go against any
codes:

At some point (who knows when) somebody installed a single-handle watts
valve in my mom's unit. I'm looking to have mine done the same way since no
drywall work is involved. There are two eschuteons (sic?) against the wall
with about 3/4" exposed pipe sticking out. At my Mom's condo, it looks
like they removed the old valves and then added downward elbows and then two
sideward elbows and two small sections of horizontal pipe leading from the
sideward elbows which into the watts valve from the sides. Only difference
in her condo is that the pipes sticking out of the wall are 5 1/2" inches a
part vs. mine being 9", so that would mean that mine would simply need more
horizontal pipe. One of my pipes coming out of the wall is around an inch
higher than the other, but the same was true for my moms so I guess this
isn't going to be problematic.

There is nothing about that is goes against any codes, right?

Hey, Jay.

Your situation is exactly what I thought you meant the first time, and
I'm the one that said it would take about an hour and the valve cost
about $30. Getting three identical quotes from three different
plumbers is _extremely_ odd. I don't see how three different plumbers
could give the exact same price if they all eyeballed the job. By any
chance did you ignore the part I wrote in my earlier reply - the part
about getting prices over the phone? To refresh your memory:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...d00164579eb d

Plumbers are more expensive then handymen. It is not a difficult
job. I'm sure there are handymen that would not have a problem with
doing the work. Your local code most likely restricts you to using a
plumber as northern NJ has some pretty strict local codes. You're the
only one that can make the determination if it's worth going with a
handyman - it's your house.

BTW, you do not need to, nor should you, start a new thread on an
existing open topic. If you add to your own thread, it pops to the
top in peoples' newsreaders so you don't have to worry about your new
information being lost in the mix.

R

"jay-n-123" wrote in message
news:eOTNh.2833$yo3.549@trnddc04...
This is a follow up to the recent thread. I live in Northern NJ. So far,
3 different plumbers I talked to all quoted the same exact price of $350
to replace existing crank-style washing machine valves with a Watts single
lever valve. Hard to believe this costs so much, since somebody here
said it is only going to take an hour to do and the part only cost $33 or
less and little bit of extra copper piping needed can't cost that much.
I suppose I could get a handyman to do this for a lot less but then this
person wouldn't be a licensed plumber....is it worth trying to save a
couple hundred by not using a licensed plumber?

The way I want it installed (described in next paragraph) doesn't involve
cutting into drywall. Just want to confirm this doesn't go against any
codes:

At some point (who knows when) somebody installed a single-handle watts
valve in my mom's unit. I'm looking to have mine done the same way since
no drywall work is involved. There are two eschuteons (sic?) against the
wall with about 3/4" exposed pipe sticking out. At my Mom's condo, it
looks like they removed the old valves and then added downward elbows and
then two sideward elbows and two small sections of horizontal pipe leading
from the sideward elbows which into the watts valve from the sides. Only
difference in her condo is that the pipes sticking out of the wall are 5
1/2" inches a part vs. mine being 9", so that would mean that mine would
simply need more horizontal pipe. One of my pipes coming out of the wall
is around an inch higher than the other, but the same was true for my moms
so I guess this isn't going to be problematic.

There is nothing about that is goes against any codes, right?

Thanks,

Jay


Without question they will need to cut in to the drywall. 3/4" comming
out of the wall is no where close to what is needed. They have no way to
solder on the new fittings. They also need to be concerned with the paper
backing on the drywall catching fire when they are soldering. What may look
easy to you "could" be a lot more involved.
350, while it might sound steep is, at least around here (Boston), a
reasonable amount for a licensed plumber onsite. Rates here are 90-125+ per
hour. 50$ stock, 2-3hrs onsite, your right there.

On Mar 26, 1:55 pm, "jay-n-123" wrote:
This is a follow up to the recent thread. I live in Northern NJ. So far, 3
different plumbers I talked to all quoted the same exact price of $350 to
replace existing crank-style washing machine valves with a Watts single
lever valve. Hard to believe this costs so much, since somebody here said
it is only going to take an hour to do and the part only cost $33 or less
and little bit of extra copper piping needed can't cost that much. I
suppose I could get a handyman to do this for a lot less but then this
person wouldn't be a licensed plumber....is it worth trying to save a couple
hundred by not using a licensed plumber?

The way I want it installed (described in next paragraph) doesn't involve
cutting into drywall. Just want to confirm this doesn't go against any
codes:

At some point (who knows when) somebody installed a single-handle watts
valve in my mom's unit. I'm looking to have mine done the same way since no
drywall work is involved. There are two eschuteons (sic?) against the wall
with about 3/4" exposed pipe sticking out. At my Mom's condo, it looks
like they removed the old valves and then added downward elbows and then two
sideward elbows and two small sections of horizontal pipe leading from the
sideward elbows which into the watts valve from the sides. Only difference
in her condo is that the pipes sticking out of the wall are 5 1/2" inches a
part vs. mine being 9", so that would mean that mine would simply need more
horizontal pipe. One of my pipes coming out of the wall is around an inch
higher than the other, but the same was true for my moms so I guess this
isn't going to be problematic.

There is nothing about that is goes against any codes, right?

Hey, Jay.

Your situation is exactly what I thought you meant the first time, and
I'm the one that said it would take about an hour and the valve cost
about $30. Getting three identical quotes from three different
plumbers is _extremely_ odd. I don't see how three different plumbers
could give the exact same price if they all eyeballed the job. By any
chance did you ignore the part I wrote in my earlier reply - the part
about getting prices over the phone? To refresh your memory:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...d00164579eb d

Plumbers are more expensive then handymen. It is not a difficult
job. I'm sure there are handymen that would not have a problem with
doing the work. Your local code most likely restricts you to using a
plumber as northern NJ has some pretty strict local codes. You're the
only one that can make the determination if it's worth going with a
handyman - it's your house.

BTW, you do not need to, nor should you, start a new thread on an
existing open topic. If you add to your own thread, it pops to the
top in peoples' newsreaders so you don't have to worry about your new
information being lost in the mix.

R

Brian V wrote:

"jay-n-123" wrote in message
news:eOTNh.2833$yo3.549@trnddc04...

This is a follow up to the recent thread. I live in Northern NJ. So far,
3 different plumbers I talked to all quoted the same exact price of $350
to replace existing crank-style washing machine valves with a Watts single
lever valve. Hard to believe this costs so much, since somebody here
said it is only going to take an hour to do and the part only cost $33 or
less and little bit of extra copper piping needed can't cost that much.
I suppose I could get a handyman to do this for a lot less but then this
person wouldn't be a licensed plumber....is it worth trying to save a
couple hundred by not using a licensed plumber?

The way I want it installed (described in next paragraph) doesn't involve
cutting into drywall. Just want to confirm this doesn't go against any
codes:

At some point (who knows when) somebody installed a single-handle watts
valve in my mom's unit. I'm looking to have mine done the same way since
no drywall work is involved. There are two eschuteons (sic?) against the
wall with about 3/4" exposed pipe sticking out. At my Mom's condo, it
looks like they removed the old valves and then added downward elbows and
then two sideward elbows and two small sections of horizontal pipe leading
from the sideward elbows which into the watts valve from the sides. Only
difference in her condo is that the pipes sticking out of the wall are 5
1/2" inches a part vs. mine being 9", so that would mean that mine would
simply need more horizontal pipe. One of my pipes coming out of the wall
is around an inch higher than the other, but the same was true for my moms
so I guess this isn't going to be problematic.

There is nothing about that is goes against any codes, right?

Thanks,

Jay



Without question they will need to cut in to the drywall. 3/4" comming
out of the wall is no where close to what is needed. They have no way to
solder on the new fittings. They also need to be concerned with the paper
backing on the drywall catching fire when they are soldering. What may look
easy to you "could" be a lot more involved.
350, while it might sound steep is, at least around here (Boston), a
reasonable amount for a licensed plumber onsite. Rates here are 90-125+ per
hour. 50$ stock, 2-3hrs onsite, your right there.



Right on!

Also, there is one nasty word which everyone has
overlooked: "Condo".

The condo assoc may have strict rules about who
can do work.

In any event, the contractor working on a condo
property has to assume a *lot* of liability.
The guys who quoted this know that.

One last thought- Have you (OP) considered just
leaving the old valves in place and installing
armored hoses (high burst strength) instead of
rubber ones?

Jim

In any event, the contractor working on a condo
property has to assume a *lot* of liability.
The guys who quoted this know that.

How do they know that....I never mentioned it.

One last thought- Have you (OP) considered just
leaving the old valves in place and installing
armored hoses (high burst strength) instead of
rubber ones?

I have steel-braided reinforced hoses already. Problem with the valve was
that it started dripping a little from the stem, and I tried replacing the
packing. When putting the nut back on, I noticed that something is peculiar
in that, no matter what I do, the packing nut wants to always go onto the
threaded cylinder part at an angle and therefore I can only tighten it so
much without fear of stripping the threads (assuming they weren't already
stripped or something). I don't know why the nut wants to go back on at an
angle no matter what I do. Don't know if I did something wrong, but it may
have been like that already. I suppose I could maybe see if a plumber
could do repair work on the existing valve such as maybe try another nut, or
replace the whole stem (if that is possible), but was thinking that having a
single handle watts valve installed might be worth having done instead.
What do you think?

Thanks,

J.

jay-n-123 wrote:

In any event, the contractor working on a condo
property has to assume a *lot* of liability.
The guys who quoted this know that.

How do they know that....I never mentioned it.

One last thought- Have you (OP) considered just
leaving the old valves in place and installing
armored hoses (high burst strength) instead of
rubber ones?

I have steel-braided reinforced hoses already. Problem with the valve was
that it started dripping a little from the stem, and I tried replacing the
packing. When putting the nut back on, I noticed that something is peculiar
in that, no matter what I do, the packing nut wants to always go onto the
threaded cylinder part at an angle and therefore I can only tighten it so
much without fear of stripping the threads (assuming they weren't already
stripped or something). I don't know why the nut wants to go back on at an
angle no matter what I do. Don't know if I did something wrong, but it may
have been like that already. I suppose I could maybe see if a plumber
could do repair work on the existing valve such as maybe try another nut, or
replace the whole stem (if that is possible), but was thinking that having a
single handle watts valve installed might be worth having done instead.
What do you think?

Thanks,

J.



Ah. Chances are you are stuck over the packing
nut that won't thread on. If you are going to have
a plumber in to fix that, he may as well put in the Watts.

(They likely figured out it's a condo from the address.
Or that's their flat rate for everyone...)

Jim

If you have a plumber who happens to have one of these .. .. ..

http://www.msvalves.com/sting.html

he can solder onto short stubs without anything more than a slight
discoloration of adjacent drywall or other painted surfaces

Without question they will need to cut in to the drywall. 3/4" comming
out of the wall is no where close to what is needed. They have no way to
solder on the new fittings. They also need to be concerned with the paper
backing on the drywall catching fire when they are soldering. What may look
easy to you "could" be a lot more involved.
350, while it might sound steep is, at least around here (Boston), a
reasonable amount for a licensed plumber onsite. Rates here are 90-125+ per
hour. 50$ stock, 2-3hrs onsite, your right there.

Ah. Chances are you are stuck over the packing
nut that won't thread on. If you are going to have
a plumber in to fix that, he may as well put in the Watts.

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse here...but what's strange is that the
existing valve actually doesn't drip now when I opening up, likely cause I
added the packing. It just bothers me out that the packing nut goes on at
an angle even though it may have always been that way. Would it be crazy to
live with it if it's not dripping (but always shut it off when not in use
and only open it up a minimal amount when in use)...rather than immediately
spending a few hundred for new valves?

If you think I'd be crazy not to just bite the bullet and get new valve(s)
installed...do you think two individual sealed ball valves might be less
likely to leak than a single lever Watts...I notice the single lever ones
have all kinds of o rings, etc....but I guess the single-handle ones can
easily be replaced without soldering if anything ever goes wrong...which do
you think is better?

Thanks,

J.

In article 9jbOh.4668$xE.3621@trnddc08, "jay-n-123" wrote:
Ah. Chances are you are stuck over the packing
nut that won't thread on. If you are going to have
a plumber in to fix that, he may as well put in the Watts.

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse here...but what's strange is that the
existing valve actually doesn't drip now when I opening up, likely cause I
added the packing. It just bothers me out that the packing nut goes on at
an angle even though it may have always been that way. Would it be crazy to
live with it if it's not dripping (but always shut it off when not in use
and only open it up a minimal amount when in use)...rather than immediately
spending a few hundred for new valves?

If you think I'd be crazy not to just bite the bullet and get new valve(s)
installed...do you think two individual sealed ball valves might be less
likely to leak than a single lever Watts...I notice the single lever ones
have all kinds of o rings, etc....but I guess the single-handle ones can
easily be replaced without soldering if anything ever goes wrong...which do
you think is better?

Both options are reasonable, IMO. Obviously, if you live
with the existing valve, you'll need to keep an eye it.
However, any problem is almost certainly going to start
with a minor drip and not a catastrophic failure. This
of course, is in distinct contrast with failures of the
applicance hoses which frequently burst catastrophically.

There are other (reasonable) options as well. e.g. install
a large tray to catch any water and fit an alarm. There
are also automatic shut-off valves such as:

http://www.smarthome.com/71151.html

I think these might make sense when the washer is
installed on a second (or higher) floor and the scope
for water damage is considerably greater.

I'm surprised insurers have not imposed stricter
requirements on washing machine connections -- apparently
the losses due to hose failures are quite considerable.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually I do have a water alarm underneath it already...not the kind that
automatically shuts anything off though.

BTW, I'm finding that the water alarms I have work (wathchdog I think) work
better when you fold a piece of paper towel and stick it underneath the
alarm...this is because the metal electrodes don't touch the floor and if
there is a slight leak the alarm might not go off if the water doesn't get
to touch the electrodes...but if you fold a piece of paper towel the towel
will absorb the water from even a slight leak and cause the alarm to
trigger.

J.

Bah humbug. $350 is probably their minimum charge.

Bah humbug. $350 is probably their minimum charge.

Yeah, I do like to save money if at all possible.

I losened the nut again and put it back on. Now I'm not sure if it's really
still on wrong (although it definitely was on wrong the very first time I
put it on) and it's not leaking (even after doing the laundry), so maybe
it's not going to be a problem.

J.

Old joke:

A paralegal complains to one of the law firm partners that the ladies room
has a leak. He calls a plumber and asks for a quote. After being told it
will take about an hour and will cost $350 the lawyer exclaims..... "$350
for an hour work? I'm a lawyer and I only charger $250 per hour" . The
plumber responds.... yes that is about right. I used to be a lawyer and
charged $250 per hour before I became a plumber.



"Brian V" wrote in message
. ..

"jay-n-123" wrote in message
news:eOTNh.2833$yo3.549@trnddc04...
This is a follow up to the recent thread. I live in Northern NJ. So
far, 3 different plumbers I talked to all quoted the same exact price of
$350 to replace existing crank-style washing machine valves with a Watts
single lever valve. Hard to believe this costs so much, since somebody
here said it is only going to take an hour to do and the part only cost
$33 or less and little bit of extra copper piping needed can't cost that
much. I suppose I could get a handyman to do this for a lot less but then
this person wouldn't be a licensed plumber....is it worth trying to save
a couple hundred by not using a licensed plumber?

The way I want it installed (described in next paragraph) doesn't involve
cutting into drywall. Just want to confirm this doesn't go against any
codes:

At some point (who knows when) somebody installed a single-handle watts
valve in my mom's unit. I'm looking to have mine done the same way since
no drywall work is involved. There are two eschuteons (sic?) against the
wall with about 3/4" exposed pipe sticking out. At my Mom's condo, it
looks like they removed the old valves and then added downward elbows and
then two sideward elbows and two small sections of horizontal pipe
leading from the sideward elbows which into the watts valve from the
sides. Only difference in her condo is that the pipes sticking out of
the wall are 5 1/2" inches a part vs. mine being 9", so that would mean
that mine would simply need more horizontal pipe. One of my pipes coming
out of the wall is around an inch higher than the other, but the same was
true for my moms so I guess this isn't going to be problematic.

There is nothing about that is goes against any codes, right?

Thanks,

Jay


Without question they will need to cut in to the drywall. 3/4" comming
out of the wall is no where close to what is needed. They have no way to
solder on the new fittings. They also need to be concerned with the paper
backing on the drywall catching fire when they are soldering. What may
look easy to you "could" be a lot more involved.
350, while it might sound steep is, at least around here (Boston), a
reasonable amount for a licensed plumber onsite. Rates here are 90-125+
per hour. 50$ stock, 2-3hrs onsite, your right there.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:29:21 GMT, (Malcolm Hoar)
wrote:


There are other (reasonable) options as well. e.g. install
a large tray to catch any water and fit an alarm. There
are also automatic shut-off valves such as:

http://www.smarthome.com/71151.html

Instead of an automatic shut-off, I'd like to get an automatic
turn-on.

Do they have simple 110V valves that I could connect to the pipes
before the hoses, which I could wire in parallel with the valves in
the washing machine itself?

Then, whenever the washer turned the inner water valve on, hot or cold
or both, it would also turn on the matching valve at the water pipe.

Any suggestions?

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:43:54 GMT, "jay-n-123"
wrote:

Bah humbug. $350 is probably their minimum charge.

Yeah, I do like to save money if at all possible.

I losened the nut again and put it back on. Now I'm not sure if it's really
still on wrong (although it definitely was on wrong the very first time I
put it on) and it's not leaking (even after doing the laundry), so maybe
it's not going to be a problem.

Darn, you beat me. One way to try to get a cross-threaded nut
screwed on straight is to turn the nut counterclockwise, until you
feel the thread of the nut go over thread of the other part. So then
you know exactly where to start turning clockwise, and I was told and
I think it has worked that way for me that it is easier to get the nut
on straight that way.

Turning CCW gives one a chance to tell that the nut is resting on the
other part evenly, all the way around.

I sometimes have to start several times, because I can't turn the nut
a whole turn with one position of my fingers. So I do it until I
start a quarter or half turn before, going backwards, the start of the
thread.

J.

"jay-n-123" wrote in message
news:9jbOh.4668$xE.3621@trnddc08...
If you think I'd be crazy not to just bite the bullet and get new valve(s)
installed...do you think two individual sealed ball valves might be less
likely to leak than a single lever Watts...I notice the single lever ones
have all kinds of o rings, etc....but I guess the single-handle ones can
easily be replaced without soldering if anything ever goes wrong...which
do
you think is better?


I live in an older house and every time I have to touch a preexisting valve,
I replace it with a ball valve. Of course this will be a little tricky on
your condo if it has copper pipe. Another reason for the high estimates is
that you may not have an individual shut off for your unit, and the whole
building may need to be shut down to change the valve.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

Another reason for the high estimates is
that you may not have an individual shut off for your unit, and the whole
building may need to be shut down to change the valve.


There most certainly is an individual shutoff for my unit. I wouldn't buy a
place that didn't have one.

Anyway, although the problem is currently fixed, I'm going to get another
estimate Friday for the single lever watts, as well as replacing a couple
other old valves with ball valves.

J.