I have a 14w Nvision brand compact fluorescent bulb on a three-way switch
circuit in my stairway that pulses very weak light, from near the base of
the discharge tube, about every second, when the switch is in the "off"
position. Looks like a weak strobe light.
I checked the "off" voltage across the empty socket - it was about 5v. One
of the three way switches has a lighted toggle, for what it is worth. The
lamp fixture is a can light, new, and seemingly properly wired but cannot
tell if the body of the unit is grounded, as only the hot and neutral feed
wires are visible on my side of the metal fixture reflector.
All I can figure is the low voltage is charging a capacitor in the bulb
base, and the capacitor periodically discharges its stored energy into the
bulb.
How can I trouble shoot (if this is necessary for safety) the source of the
low voltage in the lamp socket?
And is this in any way a fire danger?
Thanks,
Roger

In article , Roger wrote:
I have a 14w Nvision brand compact fluorescent bulb on a three-way switch
circuit in my stairway that pulses very weak light, from near the base of
the discharge tube, about every second, when the switch is in the "off"
position. Looks like a weak strobe light.
I checked the "off" voltage across the empty socket - it was about 5v. One
of the three way switches has a lighted toggle, for what it is worth. The
lamp fixture is a can light, new, and seemingly properly wired but cannot
tell if the body of the unit is grounded, as only the hot and neutral feed
wires are visible on my side of the metal fixture reflector.
All I can figure is the low voltage is charging a capacitor in the bulb
base, and the capacitor periodically discharges its stored energy into the
bulb.
How can I trouble shoot (if this is necessary for safety) the source of the
low voltage in the lamp socket?
And is this in any way a fire danger?

This item has no significant fire danger.

The biggest problem is "leakage current" through "cable capacitance"
shortening the life expectancy of the "bulbs". That itemmay be as low as
"speculative".

If the "bulbs" are UL-listed and used in a manner not other than is as
directed, I woukld not worry much. Screw-base CFLs appear to me to be
generally subject to UL by requiring integral ballasts. The category
that UL has for these is "self-ballasted lamp", give or take a hyphen and
a space or two.

- Don Klipstein )

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:28:01 -0700, "Roger"
wrote:

I have a 14w Nvision brand compact fluorescent bulb on a three-way switch
circuit in my stairway that pulses very weak light, from near the base of
the discharge tube, about every second, when the switch is in the "off"
position. Looks like a weak strobe light.

Maybe you can have a weak party.

I checked the "off" voltage across the empty socket - it was about 5v. One

Because of the lighted toggle below, maybe you can skip the step below
or save it for later.

Hmmm. You should measure with a meter with a needle. Everyone here
says that digital meters give false readings because of induced
voltages.

Or with enough connecting things, I think you can put an incandescent
light in series with the socket and an ammeter. 110 watt lightbulb
would be about an amp at 110 volts, so at 5 volts, it will be 1/20th
(50 milliamps) or 1/22nd of an amp, if there is really 5 volts. You
can calculate the actual voltage from that.

of the three way switches has a lighted toggle, for what it is worth. The

I think could well be significant.

We just had a thread about 3-way toggle with pilot ligths. But yours
just has a lighted handle, right. With a regular bulb, the light is
on when the switch is off, right, and vice versa?

And that probably uses a very small neon bulb. If it were an
incandescnent bulb that was in the circuit, then measureing the
voltage across the empty socket would give the full 110 volts. I have
to think about this. How can it show only 5, just because it is neon.
Go do that step I said you could skip. So we know what the voltage
really is. Or do the step below and don't worry about why, just how
to fix it.

lamp fixture is a can light, new, and seemingly properly wired but cannot
tell if the body of the unit is grounded, as only the hot and neutral feed
wires are visible on my side of the metal fixture reflector.
All I can figure is the low voltage is charging a capacitor in the bulb
base, and the capacitor periodically discharges its stored energy into the
bulb.
How can I trouble shoot (if this is necessary for safety) the source of the
low voltage in the lamp socket?

Well, you could pull the 3-way out and replace it with a two way, or
a 3-way with no light, or most simply, you could disconnect one of the
two wires out of three that are connected when the switch is in the
off position. Turn the fuse or breaker off and when the wires are
separated, turn the fuse back on again.

And is this in any way a fire danger?

I don't think so, but it may wear out your bulb more quickly. I guess
it doesn't take any more electricity than the lighted swtich did in
the first place. If that is the reason.

I have a CFL on a 3-way, but it's not a lighted switch.

I'm sure this will come up a lot as time goes on.

Thanks,
Roger

It might be the type of switches that you are using.

We have the same issue with the solid state switches we use here. There is a
bit of voltage leakage across and causes the CFL to flicker, some brands of
bulbs seem to be better then others.

Funny thing about ours was that if you held the bulb in your hand (our
socket was a corded test socket) it's intensity was higher then if the bulb
was just on the table.

Scott-

"Roger" wrote in message
. ..
I have a 14w Nvision brand compact fluorescent bulb on a three-way switch
circuit in my stairway that pulses very weak light, from near the base of
the discharge tube, about every second, when the switch is in the "off"
position. Looks like a weak strobe light.
I checked the "off" voltage across the empty socket - it was about 5v.
One of the three way switches has a lighted toggle, for what it is worth.
The lamp fixture is a can light, new, and seemingly properly wired but
cannot tell if the body of the unit is grounded, as only the hot and
neutral feed wires are visible on my side of the metal fixture reflector.
All I can figure is the low voltage is charging a capacitor in the bulb
base, and the capacitor periodically discharges its stored energy into
the bulb.
How can I trouble shoot (if this is necessary for safety) the source of
the low voltage in the lamp socket?
And is this in any way a fire danger?
Thanks,
Roger

Maybe the bulb (neon?) in the switch is conducting enough current to light
the CFL. Unscrew the CFL and see if the switch bulb goes out.

"Roger" wrote in message
. ..
I have a 14w Nvision brand compact fluorescent bulb on a three-way switch
circuit in my stairway that pulses very weak light, from near the base of
the discharge tube, about every second, when the switch is in the "off"
position. Looks like a weak strobe light.
I checked the "off" voltage across the empty socket - it was about 5v.
One of the three way switches has a lighted toggle, for what it is worth.
The lamp fixture is a can light, new, and seemingly properly wired but
cannot tell if the body of the unit is grounded, as only the hot and
neutral feed wires are visible on my side of the metal fixture reflector.
All I can figure is the low voltage is charging a capacitor in the bulb
base, and the capacitor periodically discharges its stored energy into
the bulb.
How can I trouble shoot (if this is necessary for safety) the source of
the low voltage in the lamp socket?
And is this in any way a fire danger?
Thanks,
Roger

mm wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:28:01 -0700, "Roger"
wrote:


I have a 14w Nvision brand compact fluorescent bulb on a three-way switch
circuit in my stairway that pulses very weak light, from near the base of
the discharge tube, about every second, when the switch is in the "off"
position. Looks like a weak strobe light.


Maybe you can have a weak party.


I checked the "off" voltage across the empty socket - it was about 5v. One


Because of the lighted toggle below, maybe you can skip the step below
or save it for later.

Hmmm. You should measure with a meter with a needle. Everyone here
says that digital meters give false readings because of induced
voltages.

Or with enough connecting things, I think you can put an incandescent
light in series with the socket and an ammeter. 110 watt lightbulb
would be about an amp at 110 volts, so at 5 volts, it will be 1/20th
(50 milliamps) or 1/22nd of an amp, if there is really 5 volts. You
can calculate the actual voltage from that.


of the three way switches has a lighted toggle, for what it is worth. The


I think could well be significant.

We just had a thread about 3-way toggle with pilot ligths. But yours
just has a lighted handle, right. With a regular bulb, the light is
on when the switch is off, right, and vice versa?

And that probably uses a very small neon bulb. If it were an
incandescnent bulb that was in the circuit, then measureing the
voltage across the empty socket would give the full 110 volts. I have
to think about this. How can it show only 5, just because it is neon.
Go do that step I said you could skip. So we know what the voltage
really is. Or do the step below and don't worry about why, just how
to fix it.


lamp fixture is a can light, new, and seemingly properly wired but cannot
tell if the body of the unit is grounded, as only the hot and neutral feed
wires are visible on my side of the metal fixture reflector.
All I can figure is the low voltage is charging a capacitor in the bulb
base, and the capacitor periodically discharges its stored energy into the
bulb.
How can I trouble shoot (if this is necessary for safety) the source of the
low voltage in the lamp socket?


Well, you could pull the 3-way out and replace it with a two way, or
a 3-way with no light, or most simply, you could disconnect one of the
two wires out of three that are connected when the switch is in the
off position. Turn the fuse or breaker off and when the wires are
separated, turn the fuse back on again.


And is this in any way a fire danger?


I don't think so, but it may wear out your bulb more quickly. I guess
it doesn't take any more electricity than the lighted swtich did in
the first place. If that is the reason.

I have a CFL on a 3-way, but it's not a lighted switch.

I'm sure this will come up a lot as time goes on.


Thanks,
Roger





I'm beginning to think the Luddites* may have known what they were
about. Stuff like what's being discussed on this thread says to me
things are getting too damn complicated.... G

I get shivers when I think about all the electrons doing their things to
keep my car engine running nowadays. When I first became a gearhead, all
you had to know was that if you had "gas and fahr", the engine would
probably run, and you could tell if those were there with just the
senses the Good Lord gave you.

Last month I had to shell out a bundle for a valve job on daughter's V6
Olds. It felt like it was running fine, but it wouldn't pass inspection
because the diagnostics said one cylinder was running "weak". A
compression check showed it was off, but I was flabbergasted to dig in
and learn that the computer could tell that because the weak cylinder
caused the crankshaft's rotation to slow down a tiny bit during that
cylinder's power stroke, 'cause it continuously monitored crankshaft
angle throughout each revolution. Then I remembered the reason why
they've had harmonic balancers on the ends of car engine crankshafts for
years.

The exhaust valve in the affected cylinder, and it's seat also, had a
single "ding" on their mating surfaces. The likely cause was a "plug and
wire change" last year which was shortly followed by the engine running
very rough rough because the stationary electrode fell right off the
plug in that same cylinder. A new plug "fixed" the problem, but I'm
feeling that little steel electrode bounced into the precicely wrong
place and F'd up the valve and its seat.....Remaining unoticed until
state inspection time rolled around almost a year later, when it was far
too late to try and raise a stink over that defective spark plug.

The word "luck" in our family is too often spelled with just three
letters, B-A-D. G

Jeff

* http://carbon.cudenver.edu/~mryder/i...a/luddite.html

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Mar 20, 12:15 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
Maybe the bulb (neon?) in the switch is conducting enough current to light
the CFL. Unscrew the CFL and see if the switch bulb goes out.

"Roger" wrote in message

. ..

I have a 14w Nvision brand compact fluorescent bulb on a three-way switch
circuit in my stairway that pulses very weak light, from near the base of
the discharge tube, about every second, when the switch is in the "off"
position. Looks like a weak strobe light.
I checked the "off" voltage across the empty socket - it was about 5v.
One of the three way switches has a lighted toggle, for what it is worth.
The lamp fixture is a can light, new, and seemingly properly wired but
cannot tell if the body of the unit is grounded, as only the hot and
neutral feed wires are visible on my side of the metal fixture reflector.
All I can figure is the low voltage is charging a capacitor in the bulb
base, and the capacitor periodically discharges its stored energy into
the bulb.
How can I trouble shoot (if this is necessary for safety) the source of
the low voltage in the lamp socket?
And is this in any way a fire danger?
Thanks,
Roger

That's what I was thinking. That lighted switch is getting power from
somewhere and is grounded to somewhere. I am wondering if it isn't
grounded through these wires, effectively putting the CF in series
with it. If so, removing the bulb would extinguish the switch's
light. Otherwise, either try a non-lighted switch, try if different
switch, or call an exorcist.

Jeff and Pat may be onto something here.
When I checked the switches, I discovered that (1) *both* of them were
lighted style, and (2) both went off when I unscrewed the turned-off cfl
bulb. I guess that means the current draw from the two lighted switch lamps
is enough to power up the cfl enough to flicker.
Thanks for all your comments.
Roger

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:28:01 -0700, "Roger"
wrote:

I have a 14w Nvision brand compact fluorescent bulb on a three-way switch
circuit in my stairway that pulses very weak light, from near the base of
the discharge tube, about every second, when the switch is in the "off"
position. Looks like a weak strobe light.
I checked the "off" voltage across the empty socket - it was about 5v. One
of the three way switches has a lighted toggle, for what it is worth. The
lamp fixture is a can light, new, and seemingly properly wired but cannot
tell if the body of the unit is grounded, as only the hot and neutral feed
wires are visible on my side of the metal fixture reflector.
All I can figure is the low voltage is charging a capacitor in the bulb
base, and the capacitor periodically discharges its stored energy into the
bulb.
How can I trouble shoot (if this is necessary for safety) the source of the
low voltage in the lamp socket?
And is this in any way a fire danger?
Thanks,
Roger



How old is your home, I'm wondering if something wacky like you have
switched neutrals.

later,

tom @ www.MeetANewFriend.com

Pat wrote:


That's what I was thinking. That lighted switch is getting power from
somewhere and is grounded to somewhere. I am wondering if it isn't
grounded through these wires, effectively putting the CF in series
with it. If so, removing the bulb would extinguish the switch's
light. Otherwise, either try a non-lighted switch, try if different
switch, or call an exorcist.



It IS the neon lamp in the "lighted" switch, also the EL
"backlights" do the same thing.

The neon/el will pass a small curent to the CFL (after all,
the neon/EL is glowing) The CFL input is a fullwave bridge
or voltage doubler circuit. After a few seconds, enough dc
voltage will build up in the CFL that it will try to
"start". It will give off a dim blink as it discharges, and
the process starts all over again.

This is the old neon relaxation oscillator circuit of the
1940's.

Single pole triac dimmers(two wire) will also do this, but
can be a hazard since they give an unlimited 117VAC blast to
the CFL. The older CFL circuit could fail, the newer CFLs
are designed to "fail-safe".

-larry / dallas