I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90' of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.

On Mar 18, 2:54 pm, wrote:
I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90' of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.

I imagine that lots of people will weigh in on this, here's my
opinion:

1) I hate to run romex through conduit. It is usually easier and
cheaper to run THHN wires, and they are easier to pull back out and
replace. I thought that there was a code issue with running romex
through conduit too, but I don't know that for sure.

2) You could have run two hots & a neutral, with wire or romex - so
yes, 12/3 would have been OK

3) Because you don't know what the future holds, I would have run at
least 10 or even 8 gauge wire out there, and put in a small subpanel.
I know that copper prices had spiked, but they have come down now.
It's not like we are talking hundreds of dollars.

4) You could use either of the romexes you ran to have a 240v 15A
circuit, but I don't know how much good that would be. What would you
use it for?

Also, too late for you, but I like to run small circuits to garages
through IMC. It only needs to be buried 6" deep.

JK

A buried conduit is considered a wet location, except possibly in dry areas.
Romex has type thhn conductors in it, which are NOT for use in wet
locations. You don't give the size of the conduit, but without installing
panels or grounding rods, you can run two 20 amp circuits, which could be
accomplished with a 12/3 UF cable or four individual # 12 THWN or similar
conductors. This would give you 20 amps 120/240 volts and would be adequate
for what you've described



wrote in message
ups.com...
I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90' of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.

The conduit is 3/4"

On Mar 18, 2:54 pm, wrote:
I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90' of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.

You _should_ do it right to begin with rather than "getting by" w/ a
substandard installation (that, of course, imo ). You're already
talking of upgrading and will undoubtedly want more in the future once
you have power at all.

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.

On Mar 18, 4:15 pm, "dpb" wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:54 pm, wrote:



I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90' of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.

You _should_ do it right to begin with rather than "getting by" w/ a
substandard installation (that, of course, imo ). You're already
talking of upgrading and will undoubtedly want more in the future once
you have power at all.

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.

Please elaborate, why isn't 3/4" conduit big enough. Or rather not
big enough for what exactly??

If it's a decent, fairly straight and clean run, you could pull 3 #8 and
1#10 for the ground,THWN conductors, use a six circuit panel two ground rods
connected with #8 and a 40 amp breaker in the main panel



wrote in message
ups.com...
The conduit is 3/4"

3/4 " isn't big enough to pull a 12/3 UF cable


wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 18, 4:15 pm, "dpb" wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:54 pm, wrote:



I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90' of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.

You _should_ do it right to begin with rather than "getting by" w/ a
substandard installation (that, of course, imo ). You're already
talking of upgrading and will undoubtedly want more in the future once
you have power at all.

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.

Please elaborate, why isn't 3/4" conduit big enough. Or rather not
big enough for what exactly??

wrote in message
ups.com...
I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90' of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.


What size is your conduit?

On Mar 18, 4:29 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
3/4 " isn't big enough to pull a 12/3 UF cable

wrote in message

oups.com...

On Mar 18, 4:15 pm, "dpb" wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:54 pm, wrote:

I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90' of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.

You _should_ do it right to begin with rather than "getting by" w/ a
substandard installation (that, of course, imo ). You're already
talking of upgrading and will undoubtedly want more in the future once
you have power at all.

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.

Please elaborate, why isn't 3/4" conduit big enough. Or rather not
big enough for what exactly??

As I mentioned the run is about 90' with a total of 4 90°s in it (all
pretty tight). At this point it wouldn't be too difficult to dig up
two of the 90's and cut the conduit which would give me one straight
long run and two short ones each with one 90 where it enters the
buildings. I pulled on the existing romex and couldn't budge it so I
assume I'll have to shorten the run as mentioned to get these out. If
the conduit isn't big enough to pull #12/3 UF through. Is it more
likely that I would be able to pull 4 separate #12 THWN conductors
through? Are these pulled one at a time or all together?

You always pull together. The 12/3 UF is a flat oval. If it were round, it
would fit fine. Individual conductors, preferably stranded, will fit fine
and pull easily



wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 18, 4:29 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
3/4 " isn't big enough to pull a 12/3 UF cable

wrote in message

oups.com...

On Mar 18, 4:15 pm, "dpb" wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:54 pm, wrote:

I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90'
of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one
circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand
my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.

You _should_ do it right to begin with rather than "getting by" w/ a
substandard installation (that, of course, imo ). You're already
talking of upgrading and will undoubtedly want more in the future once
you have power at all.

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.

Please elaborate, why isn't 3/4" conduit big enough. Or rather not
big enough for what exactly??

As I mentioned the run is about 90' with a total of 4 90°s in it (all
pretty tight). At this point it wouldn't be too difficult to dig up
two of the 90's and cut the conduit which would give me one straight
long run and two short ones each with one 90 where it enters the
buildings. I pulled on the existing romex and couldn't budge it so I
assume I'll have to shorten the run as mentioned to get these out. If
the conduit isn't big enough to pull #12/3 UF through. Is it more
likely that I would be able to pull 4 separate #12 THWN conductors
through? Are these pulled one at a time or all together?

dpb wrote:

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.



You could stuff four #8 THWN-2 wires in there pretty easily, and #8 is
easy to work with. That would give you a 40A service with a separate
ground. Or run 2 black sixes and a white #8 for a 50A (60A? I don't
remember) service and establish a new ground at the garage. Either of
these would be legal with 3/4" conduit.

Bob

He only needs #10 for the ground conductor for either #8 or #6. I'm not sure
if it's "still" legal to not run a ground with the circuit conductors, but
if he does that, nothing conductive can go between the buildings, including
catv, telephone, metal water line, etc.



"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.



You could stuff four #8 THWN-2 wires in there pretty easily, and #8 is
easy to work with. That would give you a 40A service with a separate
ground. Or run 2 black sixes and a white #8 for a 50A (60A? I don't
remember) service and establish a new ground at the garage. Either of
these would be legal with 3/4" conduit.

Bob

On Mar 18, 5:38 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
He only needs #10 for the ground conductor for either #8 or #6. I'm not sure
if it's "still" legal to not run a ground with the circuit conductors, but
if he does that, nothing conductive can go between the buildings, including
catv, telephone, metal water line, etc.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message

...

dpb wrote:

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.

You could stuff four #8 THWN-2 wires in there pretty easily, and #8 is
easy to work with. That would give you a 40A service with a separate
ground. Or run 2 black sixes and a white #8 for a 50A (60A? I don't
remember) service and establish a new ground at the garage. Either of
these would be legal with 3/4" conduit.

Bob

Your starting to lose me here (noting conductive can go between th
buildings...)

In the same trench (outside of the conduit) I ran a coax line. Not
sure if this impacts things or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like it would be acceptable (and
simpliest) to pull out the romex and push 4 #12 THWN conductors
through (black, red, white, ??). (Is #12 easy to push or will I need
to fish it through?) This would give me 2 120V 20 amp supply lines,
one common neutral and a common ground. Without adding a subpanel I
could splice these into romex in the garage. But as recommended it
would be better to push #10 or #8 to increase the amperage and add a
subpanel in the garage.

Exactly. If you think you may need a larger feed for future, you could pull
the number 8's as I describe, which will give you 40 amps, but you'd need a
panel and the ground rods. If the two 20 amp circuits will suffice, four
#12's will get you there. If you can pull out one of the existing romex's,
you could tie the new conductors to the other and use it as a snake





wrote in message
ps.com...
On Mar 18, 5:38 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
He only needs #10 for the ground conductor for either #8 or #6. I'm not
sure
if it's "still" legal to not run a ground with the circuit conductors,
but
if he does that, nothing conductive can go between the buildings,
including
catv, telephone, metal water line, etc.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message

...

dpb wrote:

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.

You could stuff four #8 THWN-2 wires in there pretty easily, and #8 is
easy to work with. That would give you a 40A service with a separate
ground. Or run 2 black sixes and a white #8 for a 50A (60A? I don't
remember) service and establish a new ground at the garage. Either of
these would be legal with 3/4" conduit.

Bob

Your starting to lose me here (noting conductive can go between th
buildings...)

In the same trench (outside of the conduit) I ran a coax line. Not
sure if this impacts things or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like it would be acceptable (and
simpliest) to pull out the romex and push 4 #12 THWN conductors
through (black, red, white, ??). (Is #12 easy to push or will I need
to fish it through?) This would give me 2 120V 20 amp supply lines,
one common neutral and a common ground. Without adding a subpanel I
could splice these into romex in the garage. But as recommended it
would be better to push #10 or #8 to increase the amperage and add a
subpanel in the garage.

On Mar 18, 7:08 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Exactly. If you think you may need a larger feed for future, you could pull
the number 8's as I describe, which will give you 40 amps, but you'd need a
panel and the ground rods. If the two 20 amp circuits will suffice, four
#12's will get you there. If you can pull out one of the existing romex's,
you could tie the new conductors to the other and use it as a snake

wrote in message

ps.com...

On Mar 18, 5:38 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
He only needs #10 for the ground conductor for either #8 or #6. I'm not
sure
if it's "still" legal to not run a ground with the circuit conductors,
but
if he does that, nothing conductive can go between the buildings,
including
catv, telephone, metal water line, etc.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message

...

dpb wrote:

As others have noted, I'll reiterate the more significant problems
here -- first, for underground even in conduit you need wet-location-
rated conductor and what you've described isn't -- you need an UF and
could dispense w/ the conduit except for protecting it going
underground. 3/4" conduit as you noted later isn't really large
enough.

I strongly recommend going to #10 for the feed and installing a small
subpanel. It will be far better in the end to spend a few extra bucks
up front. But, in particularl, the interior romex is _NOT_SUITABLE_
for the application.

You could stuff four #8 THWN-2 wires in there pretty easily, and #8 is
easy to work with. That would give you a 40A service with a separate
ground. Or run 2 black sixes and a white #8 for a 50A (60A? I don't
remember) service and establish a new ground at the garage. Either of
these would be legal with 3/4" conduit.

Bob

Your starting to lose me here (noting conductive can go between th
buildings...)

In the same trench (outside of the conduit) I ran a coax line. Not
sure if this impacts things or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like it would be acceptable (and
simpliest) to pull out the romex and push 4 #12 THWN conductors
through (black, red, white, ??). (Is #12 easy to push or will I need
to fish it through?) This would give me 2 120V 20 amp supply lines,
one common neutral and a common ground. Without adding a subpanel I
could splice these into romex in the garage. But as recommended it
would be better to push #10 or #8 to increase the amperage and add a
subpanel in the garage.

Thanks a lot for the feedback. Very helpful.

On 2007-03-19, RBM wrote:

Exactly. If you think you may need a larger feed for future, you could pull
the number 8's as I describe, which will give you 40 amps, but you'd need a
panel and the ground rods.

Couldn't he pull the #8's but still wire the garage as two circuits on
his existing main panel?

Cheers, Wayne

I suppose, if he connected them to 20 amp breakers. Kinda defeats the
purpose for running 40 amp wire though



"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-19, RBM wrote:

Exactly. If you think you may need a larger feed for future, you could
pull
the number 8's as I describe, which will give you 40 amps, but you'd need
a
panel and the ground rods.

Couldn't he pull the #8's but still wire the garage as two circuits on
his existing main panel?

Cheers, Wayne

Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2007-03-19, RBM wrote:

Exactly. If you think you may need a larger feed for future, you could pull
the number 8's as I describe, which will give you 40 amps, but you'd need a
panel and the ground rods.

Couldn't he pull the #8's but still wire the garage as two circuits on
his existing main panel?

Cheers, Wayne


No, it won't all fit in the conduit.

Bob

wrote:

Your starting to lose me here (noting conductive can go between th
buildings...)

In the same trench (outside of the conduit) I ran a coax line. Not
sure if this impacts things or not.

Because of the coax, running 3 wires for a 240V service is not an
option. You need 3 wires for a 120V service or 4 wires for 240V.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like it would be acceptable (and
simpliest) to pull out the romex and push 4 #12 THWN conductors
through (black, red, white, ??). (Is #12 easy to push or will I need
to fish it through?) This would give me 2 120V 20 amp supply lines,
one common neutral and a common ground. Without adding a subpanel I
could splice these into romex in the garage. But as recommended it
would be better to push #10 or #8 to increase the amperage and add a
subpanel in the garage.


#12 wire is not too bad to push. #8 is pretty easy because it's
stranded wire with fine strands. #6 is kind of tough, and #10 solid is
probably the worst.

I think you're going to have to pull this anyway because you have all
those 90 degree bends.

Look into pulling 4 stranded #10's (you could also do this same thing
with #8's but it will cost more) and wiring it without a subpanel. That
gives you 2 120V circuits with very little voltage drop. Someday when
you want to expand, you change out the breaker to 30A and add a little
subpanel in the garage. Little subpanels are *cheap*.

Bob

Since it's a sub panel, you'll need 4 wires. Go get you a length of 10/3
with ground and do it up right. You'll not need any bigger. Then you can
put in a 6 spot subpanel, use two for your 220 outlet, and have 4 for 110v
outlets or lighting.

--
Steve Barker

YOU should be the one
controlling YOUR car.
Check out:
www.lightsout.org




wrote in message
ups.com...
I am running service from my house to a detached garage through 90' of
buried conduit. I will be operating flourescent lights on one circuit
and outlets on another. The outlets will power a fridge, an
occasionally a battery charger, small tools, space heater, etc...
Initially my plan was not to install a sub panel in the garage, but
rather run two separate circuits from the service panel in the house
to the garage. In the future I'd like to have the option to expand my
voltage in the garage to 240V but at the current time this is not
needed. I think I may have made an early mistake that is not to late
to fix. So far I have run 2 lines of 14/2 romex through the conduit.
I understand that this is only 15 amps on each circuit and I was
thinking I should use 20 amp circuits (I know I should have used 12/2
wire). Howver, I purchased the 14/2 and don't have any 12 guage to
use. If I leave the 14/2 in will this be enough to power the garage
effectively? Also, does this give me the option to create a 240V
circuit in the future? If I did decide to switch to 12 guage wire
would it make sense to use a single 12/3 wire hooked to 2 separate 20
amp breakers at the main service in the house and split these in the
garage to the two 20 amp circuits through 12/2 wire? Both circuits in
the garage will be protected with GCFI outlets.

zxcvbob wrote:
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2007-03-19, RBM wrote:

Exactly. If you think you may need a larger feed for future, you
could pull the number 8's as I describe, which will give you 40 amps,
but you'd need a panel and the ground rods.

Couldn't he pull the #8's but still wire the garage as two circuits on
his existing main panel?
Cheers, Wayne


No, it won't all fit in the conduit.

Bob


Wait, I thought you meant pull #8's and leave the #12 Romex in the
conduit too. Yes he could run #8 wires and feed them with a 20A 2-pole
breaker. Then put the subpanel in later (increasing the breaker to 40A.)

Bob

On Mar 18, 9:31 pm, zxcvbob wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2007-03-19, RBM wrote:

Exactly. If you think you may need a larger feed for future, you
could pull the number 8's as I describe, which will give you 40 amps,
but you'd need a panel and the ground rods.

Couldn't he pull the #8's but still wire the garage as two circuits on
his existing main panel?
Cheers, Wayne

No, it won't all fit in the conduit.

Bob

Wait, I thought you meant pull #8's and leave the #12 Romex in the
conduit too. Yes he could run #8 wires and feed them with a 20A 2-pole
breaker. Then put the subpanel in later (increasing the breaker to 40A.)

Bob



Because of the coax, running 3 wires for a 240V service is not an
option. You need 3 wires for a 120V service or 4 wires for 240V.

I don't understand the impact of the coax. Could someone please
explain this to me.

To run an electrical service to detached building, you didn't necessarily
have to pull a ground conductor with the feeder, you could establish a new
ground at the detached building by driving ground rods, which now is a
requirement for any service larger than two 20 amp circuits. The down side
of establishing an independent grounding system at the detached building is
that you can't run anything between the buildings that could become a ground
path





wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 18, 9:31 pm, zxcvbob wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2007-03-19, RBM wrote:

Exactly. If you think you may need a larger feed for future, you
could pull the number 8's as I describe, which will give you 40 amps,
but you'd need a panel and the ground rods.

Couldn't he pull the #8's but still wire the garage as two circuits on
his existing main panel?
Cheers, Wayne

No, it won't all fit in the conduit.

Bob

Wait, I thought you meant pull #8's and leave the #12 Romex in the
conduit too. Yes he could run #8 wires and feed them with a 20A 2-pole
breaker. Then put the subpanel in later (increasing the breaker to 40A.)

Bob



Because of the coax, running 3 wires for a 240V service is not an
option. You need 3 wires for a 120V service or 4 wires for 240V.

I don't understand the impact of the coax. Could someone please
explain this to me.