My elderly mother's house has a crumbling popcorn ceiling in her tv
room. We were informed of the danger of asbestos leakage if the ceiling
is allowed to deteriorate. I was told that a significant water leak in
the kitchen above the tv room several years ago contributed to the
ceiling damage. We were told that removal of the popcorn ceiling and
the asbestos behind it will require us to keep her out of the immediate
area until the removal and then the post-repair testing of the air is
completed. This will create a real hardship on everyone since she is a
virtual shut-in and suffers from Alzheimer's. Is there an alternative
fix that is less invasive and would prevent any leakage of asbestos into
the air? I read that one can place a layer of wallboard over the
ceiling. But then it seems that it would be extremely risky since any
nails or bolts into the ceiling could cause leakage of asbestos. Thanks
for any advice or suggestions.

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:51:25 -0800, tenplay wrote:

My elderly mother's house has a crumbling popcorn ceiling in her tv
room. We were informed of the danger of asbestos leakage if the ceiling
is allowed to deteriorate. I was told that a significant water leak in
the kitchen above the tv room several years ago contributed to the
ceiling damage. We were told that removal of the popcorn ceiling and
the asbestos behind it will require us to keep her out of the immediate
area until the removal and then the post-repair testing of the air is
completed. This will create a real hardship on everyone since she is a
virtual shut-in and suffers from Alzheimer's. Is there an alternative
fix that is less invasive and would prevent any leakage of asbestos into
the air? I read that one can place a layer of wallboard over the
ceiling. But then it seems that it would be extremely risky since any
nails or bolts into the ceiling could cause leakage of asbestos. Thanks
for any advice or suggestions.

Don't worry about it. She's dying anyway, so whats the big deal?

"tenplay" wrote in message
. ..
My elderly mother's house has a crumbling popcorn ceiling in her tv room.
We were informed of the danger of asbestos leakage if the ceiling is
allowed to deteriorate. I was told that a significant water leak in the
kitchen above the tv room several years ago contributed to the ceiling
damage. We were told that removal of the popcorn ceiling and the asbestos
behind it will require us to keep her out of the immediate area until the
removal and then the post-repair testing of the air is completed.

The amount of asbestos is so damned small it should not be a concern. If
removed properly, it will be dampened so as not to fly around. The asbestos
is encapsulated in paint where it is harmless. Do a Goggle search on this
newsgroup and you will see the subject is brought up frequently. There are
a few people that panic at the word "asbestos", but anyone with common sense
will see it is not a big deal. Some thieves make a lot of money by scaring
people about this stuff.

Spray lightly with water, scrape, wipe with a wet sponge. Done.

tenplay wrote:
My elderly mother's house has a crumbling popcorn ceiling in her tv
room. We were informed of the danger of asbestos leakage if the
ceiling is allowed to deteriorate. I was told that a significant
water leak in the kitchen above the tv room several years ago
contributed to the ceiling damage. We were told that removal of the
popcorn ceiling and the asbestos behind it will require us to keep
her out of the immediate area until the removal and then the
post-repair testing of the air is completed. This will create a real
hardship on everyone since she is a virtual shut-in and suffers from
Alzheimer's. Is there an alternative fix that is less invasive and
would prevent any leakage of asbestos into the air? I read that one
can place a layer of wallboard over the ceiling. But then it seems
that it would be extremely risky since any nails or bolts into the
ceiling could cause leakage of asbestos. Thanks for any advice or
suggestions.

There has never been a case of an asbestos-related illness involving any
commercial product. This includes brake pads, insulation, paint, etc.
Further, asbestos-related illnesses take thirty or more years to manifest
themselves.

Treat the problems as if asbestos was not there. Even if it IS there, it's
not a problem.

I imagine the only people affected by asbestos are the ones involved in
manufacture of products containing asbestos that were exposed every day over
a long period of time. Don't let your mom take such a job and she will be
fine.

cm


"tenplay" wrote in message
. ..
My elderly mother's house has a crumbling popcorn ceiling in her tv room.
We were informed of the danger of asbestos leakage if the ceiling is
allowed to deteriorate. I was told that a significant water leak in the
kitchen above the tv room several years ago contributed to the ceiling
damage. We were told that removal of the popcorn ceiling and the asbestos
behind it will require us to keep her out of the immediate area until the
removal and then the post-repair testing of the air is completed. This
will create a real hardship on everyone since she is a virtual shut-in and
suffers from Alzheimer's. Is there an alternative fix that is less
invasive and would prevent any leakage of asbestos into the air? I read
that one can place a layer of wallboard over the ceiling. But then it
seems that it would be extremely risky since any nails or bolts into the
ceiling could cause leakage of asbestos. Thanks for any advice or
suggestions.

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:51:25 -0800, tenplay wrote:

My elderly mother's house has a crumbling popcorn ceiling in her tv
room. We were informed of the danger of asbestos leakage if the ceiling
is allowed to deteriorate. I was told that a significant water leak in
the kitchen above the tv room several years ago contributed to the
ceiling damage. We were told that removal of the popcorn ceiling and
the asbestos behind it will require us to keep her out of the immediate
area until the removal and then the post-repair testing of the air is
completed. This will create a real hardship on everyone since she is a
virtual shut-in and suffers from Alzheimer's. Is there an alternative
fix that is less invasive and would prevent any leakage of asbestos into
the air? I read that one can place a layer of wallboard over the
ceiling. But then it seems that it would be extremely risky since any
nails or bolts into the ceiling could cause leakage of asbestos. Thanks
for any advice or suggestions.


The onset time for exposure to asbestos to cause problems is
something like 20 years, I woudn't fix it at all.

But if you're going to, the first order of business is to
make sure that the water issue is permanantly solved.
After that, painting with an encapsulating paint or skim-
coating with a lightweight spackle will encapsulate the
asbestos, you should only need the 1/4" wallboard over it
if there are chunks of material trying to fall off, or
if the result of the spackle is too ugly to look at.

In any case, not enough dust will filter through
screw holes to matter. (It should be none,
because you're going to tape and mud all the seams
and screw-holes, right?)

You'll want to move all non-working peoples out of the
immediate area while working on the ceiling anyway.

"tenplay" wrote:
My elderly mother's house has a crumbling popcorn ceiling in her tv room.
We were informed of the danger of asbestos leakage if the ceiling is
allowed to deteriorate.
[snip]
And "Edwin Pawlowski" replied:
The amount of asbestos is so damned small it should not be a concern...There are
a few people that panic at the word "asbestos", but anyone with common sense
will see it is not a big deal. Some thieves make a lot of money by scaring
people about this stuff.

Spray lightly with water, scrape, wipe with a wet sponge. Done.

Let me get the disclaimer up front: nothing I say here constitutes
advice of a legal nature. I merely offer what I would consider in your
place.

No disrespect to Edwin, because there are reasonable questions about
the sharks who go into a feeding frenzy as soon as a homeowner
discovers asbestos, but the issue here is not just whether or not
asbestos constitutes a health risk to you or your mother. There is
also (perhaps more importantly) the question of violation of local,
state and federal laws regarding the disposal of what the government
considers hazardous waste. Yes, you can just scrape, put the scrapings
in a Hefty bag, drop it at the dump and hope no one figures it out,
but there is always a risk of discovery/detection at each step in the
removal process.

Play it smart: have a small sample of the ceiling material tested by a
reputable lab in your area. Do not use a lab that only does asbestos
testing, nor use a company that also provides abatement services -
you're more likely to get a false high reading from a company that
stands to make money on the removal of material. There is a level of
asbestos that is considered acceptable, believe it or not; so just
testing positive for the presence of the material is not enough - you
need to know at what level it was measured.

The Environmental Protection Agency can provide a list of reputable
labs: http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/asbestos/index.html. You may find
the ceiling is perfectly safe and all you have to do is fix it as you
would any other problem. If the test reveals levels of asbestos that
would prevent legal removal of the material, you may have options to
encapsulate it without causing strain to your mother or the rest of
the family.

You have to determine whether the risks of short- and medium-term
exposure are significant enough to warrant immediate abatement or to
use a stopgap solution. You are not legally bound to remove asbestos
from your property should you find it; in some municipalities you are
not even legally obligated to remove it when you sell the property as
long as the buyer is aware of the presence of the material and agrees
to assume all liability...but check with the zoning, real estate and
environmental regulations in your area to see what they require.

And, yes, one non-permanent option is to sheetrock over the ceiling
and spackle it good and tight. That might hold you until you decide to
sell the house at which time you'll have to figure out how to deal
with it.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
There has never been a case of an asbestos-related illness involving any
commercial product. This includes brake pads, insulation, paint, etc.
Further, asbestos-related illnesses take thirty or more years to manifest
themselves.


Wow! There's a wild statement based on nothing.

Bob

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:57:18 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
There has never been a case of an asbestos-related illness involving any
commercial product. This includes brake pads, insulation, paint, etc.
Further, asbestos-related illnesses take thirty or more years to manifest
themselves.


Wow! There's a wild statement based on nothing.


More a challenge than a statement, I'd say.
Thus far, it's got almost exactly as much supporting evidence
as the counter-proposition:

"Asbestos in the ceiling is
dangerous to the occupant(s) of a house."

"tenplay" wrote in message
. ..
My elderly mother's house has a crumbling popcorn ceiling in her tv
room. We were informed of the danger of asbestos leakage if the ceiling
is allowed to deteriorate. I was told that a significant water leak in
the kitchen above the tv room several years ago contributed to the
ceiling damage. We were told that removal of the popcorn ceiling and
the asbestos behind it will require us to keep her out of the immediate
area until the removal and then the post-repair testing of the air is
completed. This will create a real hardship on everyone since she is a
virtual shut-in and suffers from Alzheimer's. Is there an alternative
fix that is less invasive and would prevent any leakage of asbestos into
the air? I read that one can place a layer of wallboard over the
ceiling. But then it seems that it would be extremely risky since any
nails or bolts into the ceiling could cause leakage of asbestos. Thanks
for any advice or suggestions.

The asbestos IS the popcorn - not behind it. Take a sample
and have it tested. It costs about $25 or so. Look up "asbestos
testing" in the yellow pages. If there is no asbestos - no problem.
If the ceiling was done before 1978, the likelihood of asbestos is
far higher.

Bob

"There is
also (perhaps more importantly) the question of violation of local,
state and federal laws regarding the disposal of what the government
= TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT!!! Scrape it and throw it in the trash.
considers hazardous waste."


cm


"Kyle" wrote in message
ups.com...
"tenplay" wrote:
My elderly mother's house has a crumbling popcorn ceiling in her tv room.
We were informed of the danger of asbestos leakage if the ceiling is
allowed to deteriorate.
[snip]
And "Edwin Pawlowski" replied:
The amount of asbestos is so damned small it should not be a
concern...There are
a few people that panic at the word "asbestos", but anyone with common
sense
will see it is not a big deal. Some thieves make a lot of money by
scaring
people about this stuff.

Spray lightly with water, scrape, wipe with a wet sponge. Done.

Let me get the disclaimer up front: nothing I say here constitutes
advice of a legal nature. I merely offer what I would consider in your
place.

No disrespect to Edwin, because there are reasonable questions about
the sharks who go into a feeding frenzy as soon as a homeowner
discovers asbestos, but the issue here is not just whether or not
asbestos constitutes a health risk to you or your mother. There is
also (perhaps more importantly) the question of violation of local,
state and federal laws regarding the disposal of what the government
considers hazardous waste. Yes, you can just scrape, put the scrapings
in a Hefty bag, drop it at the dump and hope no one figures it out,
but there is always a risk of discovery/detection at each step in the
removal process.

Play it smart: have a small sample of the ceiling material tested by a
reputable lab in your area. Do not use a lab that only does asbestos
testing, nor use a company that also provides abatement services -
you're more likely to get a false high reading from a company that
stands to make money on the removal of material. There is a level of
asbestos that is considered acceptable, believe it or not; so just
testing positive for the presence of the material is not enough - you
need to know at what level it was measured.

The Environmental Protection Agency can provide a list of reputable
labs: http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/asbestos/index.html. You may find
the ceiling is perfectly safe and all you have to do is fix it as you
would any other problem. If the test reveals levels of asbestos that
would prevent legal removal of the material, you may have options to
encapsulate it without causing strain to your mother or the rest of
the family.

You have to determine whether the risks of short- and medium-term
exposure are significant enough to warrant immediate abatement or to
use a stopgap solution. You are not legally bound to remove asbestos
from your property should you find it; in some municipalities you are
not even legally obligated to remove it when you sell the property as
long as the buyer is aware of the presence of the material and agrees
to assume all liability...but check with the zoning, real estate and
environmental regulations in your area to see what they require.

And, yes, one non-permanent option is to sheetrock over the ceiling
and spackle it good and tight. That might hold you until you decide to
sell the house at which time you'll have to figure out how to deal
with it.

"Bob F" wrote in message

The asbestos IS the popcorn - not behind it. Take a sample
and have it tested. It costs about $25 or so. Look up "asbestos
testing" in the yellow pages. If there is no asbestos - no problem.
If the ceiling was done before 1978, the likelihood of asbestos is
far higher.

So what? Only if the fibers get into your lungs is it of any danger.
Encapsulated in the paint it is not friable, dampened to scrape it is not
friable. Please, don't look for trouble when there is none. Really, it is
safe to remove.

I'll second that Edwin.

cm

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...

"Bob F" wrote in message

The asbestos IS the popcorn - not behind it. Take a sample
and have it tested. It costs about $25 or so. Look up "asbestos
testing" in the yellow pages. If there is no asbestos - no problem.
If the ceiling was done before 1978, the likelihood of asbestos is
far higher.

So what? Only if the fibers get into your lungs is it of any danger.
Encapsulated in the paint it is not friable, dampened to scrape it is not
friable. Please, don't look for trouble when there is none. Really, it
is safe to remove.

"Kyle" wrote in message
No disrespect to Edwin, because there are reasonable questions about
the sharks who go into a feeding frenzy as soon as a homeowner
discovers asbestos, but the issue here is not just whether or not
asbestos constitutes a health risk to you or your mother. There is
also (perhaps more importantly) the question of violation of local,
state and federal laws regarding the disposal of what the government
considers hazardous waste. Yes, you can just scrape, put the scrapings
in a Hefty bag, drop it at the dump and hope no one figures it out,
but there is always a risk of discovery/detection at each step in the
removal process.

No disrespect to Kyle, but putting it in a Hefty bag is a perfectly
acceptable method of disposal. It will not contaminate groundwater or the
landfill. Heck, it came out of a mine to begin with.

Some places want it double bagged. This happens to be from Washington State.
Others may vary.
a.. Disposal of asbestos containing material in an authorized landfill.
Landfilling is the environmentally preferred method of asbestos disposal
because asbestos fibers are immobilized by soil. Asbestos cannot be safely
incinerated or chemically treated for disposal.

Asbestos is not regulated as a dangerous waste in Washington. However,
asbestos is often mixed with regulated amounts of dangerous paint wastes.

a.. New Hampshire states:
a.. Removal of nonregulated asbestos materials can be legally performed by
homeowners, regular contractors, or licensed asbestos abatement contractors
so long as each does not violate the National Emissions Standards for
Hazardous Air Pollutants (NESHAP) regulations (Refer to 40 CFR Part 61,
Subpart M) and the work complies with the Occupational Safety and Health
Administration (OSHA) regulations delineated in 29 CFR 1926.1101.
a..
All asbestos containing material must be placed wet into labeled leak-tight
containers or bags for transport to the landfill. For small
quantities/components DES requires the use of double impermeable bags of at
least 6 mil thickness each or their functional equivalent, and which are
sealed.

On Mar 13, 10:11 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
No disrespect to Kyle, but putting it in a Hefty bag is a perfectly
acceptable method of disposal. It will not contaminate groundwater or the
landfill. Heck, it came out of a mine to begin with.

Some places want it double bagged. This happens to be from Washington State.

a.. New Hampshire states:
a.. Removal of nonregulated asbestos materials can be legally performed by
homeowners

Thanks for the info. Now I wish I lived in Washington or New Hampshire
- they seem to be a little more progressive. My home state of Maryland
is so uptight about asbestos you could pluck the Dept of the
Environment like a guitar string.

So, bottom line: whether or not we think asbestos is hazardous, the
real question in dealing with it in our homes is whether or not our
state has a tight sphincter about these things, and how much risk of
fines we're willing to take.

On 14 Mar 2007 11:43:39 -0700, "Kyle" wrote:

On Mar 13, 10:11 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
No disrespect to Kyle, but putting it in a Hefty bag is a perfectly
acceptable method of disposal. It will not contaminate groundwater or the
landfill. Heck, it came out of a mine to begin with.

Some places want it double bagged. This happens to be from Washington State.

a.. New Hampshire states:
a.. Removal of nonregulated asbestos materials can be legally performed by
homeowners

Thanks for the info. Now I wish I lived in Washington or New Hampshire
- they seem to be a little more progressive. My home state of Maryland
is so uptight about asbestos you could pluck the Dept of the
Environment like a guitar string.

So, bottom line: whether or not we think asbestos is hazardous, the
real question in dealing with it in our homes is whether or not our
state has a tight sphincter about these things, and how much risk of
fines we're willing to take.

And it also wise to never let anyone know you 'may' have asbestos on
your property.

When searching out information about asbestos in your home, always do
it anonymously. Never call the city departments from your own home.