Hi,
Does anyone know of a way to measure the current being used on a
single circuit breaker from just one of the wall outlets on that
circuit?

ie; I want to be able to plug something in anywhere in the house and
be able to tell from there how many amps the circuit breaker is using.
thanks

wrote:

Does anyone know of a way to measure the current being used on a
single circuit breaker from just one of the wall outlets on that
circuit?

Nope. You need a clamp-on ammeter around the wire going to the breaker.

Chris

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:42:07 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

wrote:

Does anyone know of a way to measure the current being used on a
single circuit breaker from just one of the wall outlets on that
circuit?

Nope. You need a clamp-on ammeter around the wire going to the breaker.

What are you plugging into the outlet? The easiest method is just
estimate it from the power rating of the device you are plugging in.
There should be a Wattage (Power) marking somewhere on a nameplate on
the device. The current will be approximately = P/120 (assuming
your voltage is 120V). Example - If you are running a 1200 W space
heater, that would take 10A.

If it is a motorized appliance, such as a vacuum cleaner, it will have
a power factor of less than one, which means it will draw slightly
more current than it actually consumes in measurable output power.

If it is a heavy duty appliance like an air-conditioner, the startup
currrent may be high (almost double) during the fraction of a second
that it is coming up to spead.

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Does anyone know of a way to measure the current being used on a
single circuit breaker from just one of the wall outlets on that
circuit?

Nope. You need a clamp-on ammeter around the wire going to the breaker.

Ummm, the circuit breaker is fed by a bus ... that you cannot clamp around.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,
Does anyone know of a way to measure the current being used on a
single circuit breaker from just one of the wall outlets on that
circuit?

ie; I want to be able to plug something in anywhere in the house and
be able to tell from there how many amps the circuit breaker is using.
thanks

There is usually a black wire connected to the circuit breaker. If you can
clamp around that wire with the appropriate ammeter (Google clamp-on
ammeter) you can measure the current in that circuit.

What are you trying to accomplish?

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:59:14 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:


"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Does anyone know of a way to measure the current being used on a
single circuit breaker from just one of the wall outlets on that
circuit?

Nope. You need a clamp-on ammeter around the wire going to the breaker.

Ummm, the circuit breaker is fed by a bus ... that you cannot clamp around.


Looks like someone can't tell the difference between "to" and "from".
That reminds me of the numerous people who kept confusing "inputs" and
"outputs" on audio/video equipment.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:59:14 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:


"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Does anyone know of a way to measure the current being used on a
single circuit breaker from just one of the wall outlets on that
circuit?

Nope. You need a clamp-on ammeter around the wire going to the breaker.

Ummm, the circuit breaker is fed by a bus ... that you cannot clamp around.



Hummm, but the buss is fed by a main and that main is fed by wire that
you can clamp around.

Hummm, but the buss is fed by a main and that main is fed by wire that
you can clamp around.

Not in any power panel that I have seen recently.

Charles Schuler wrote:

Hummm, but the buss is fed by a main and that main is fed by wire that
you can clamp around.


Not in any power panel that I have seen recently.




I think he meant that the bus was fed through the main breaker, which IS
fed by a wire, usually coming from the meter base.

But, to make a meaningful measurement using that wire he'd have to
switch off ALL the other breakers on that feed's side of the panel. Not
a very practical solution, is it? G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

But, to make a meaningful measurement using that wire he'd have to switch
off ALL the other breakers on that feed's side of the panel. Not a very
practical solution, is it? G

No Jeff, it surely is not!

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:35:03 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:



Hummm, but the buss is fed by a main and that main is fed by wire that
you can clamp around.

Not in any power panel that I have seen recently.

OTOH, since he's wondering about the power used
on one circut, many people might suggest
clamping the ammeter on the wire that feeds
that circut. You know, where it comes off the
breaker. I know that sounds crazy, but it might
work anyway.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,
Does anyone know of a way to measure the current being used on a
single circuit breaker from just one of the wall outlets on that
circuit?

ie; I want to be able to plug something in anywhere in the house and
be able to tell from there how many amps the circuit breaker is using.
thanks



I have an adaptor for my ammeter that I can plug into an ordinary wall
receptacle. It has a loop on it to clamp around and I can plug an appliance
into it to see what the load is for that appliance. I think Amprobe makes
it.


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv

Charles Schuler wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote

Nope. You need a clamp-on ammeter around the wire going to the breaker.

Ummm, the circuit breaker is fed by a bus ... that you cannot clamp around.

The circuit has one wire attached to the breaker, and the other goes to
the neutral bus (assuming a 120V circuit). You can put a meter around
the wire that is connected to the breaker.

Are you seriously arguing about wether a wire goes "to" or "from" a
breaker? In an AC circuit where current flows both ways?

Chris

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:47:10 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Charles Schuler wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote

Nope. You need a clamp-on ammeter around the wire going to the breaker.

Ummm, the circuit breaker is fed by a bus ... that you cannot clamp around.

The circuit has one wire attached to the breaker, and the other goes to
the neutral bus (assuming a 120V circuit). You can put a meter around
the wire that is connected to the breaker.

Are you seriously arguing about wether a wire goes "to" or "from" a
breaker? In an AC circuit where current flows both ways?


Consider that while current does flow both ways (or more correctly, is
ALTERNATING direction), POWER goes one way. "Direction" is useful
there.

Chris
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:30:25 -0500, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Hi,
Does anyone know of a way to measure the current being used on a
single circuit breaker from just one of the wall outlets on that
circuit?

ie; I want to be able to plug something in anywhere in the house and
be able to tell from there how many amps the circuit breaker is using.
thanks



I have an adaptor for my ammeter that I can plug into an ordinary wall
receptacle. It has a loop on it to clamp around and I can plug an appliance
into it to see what the load is for that appliance. I think Amprobe makes
it.


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv

I'm using a Kill-A-Watt meter for that now, but previously I had a VOM
attachment for that. I made it from a remote control cord (just a
switch at one end) with the switch removed and replaced with banana
plugs.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Why not?

--
Steve Barker


"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...


Hummm, but the buss is fed by a main and that main is fed by wire that
you can clamp around.

Not in any power panel that I have seen recently.

Mark Lloyd wrote:

Consider that while current does flow both ways (or more correctly, is
ALTERNATING direction), POWER goes one way. "Direction" is useful
there.

How do you figure that? Power is a scalar quantity given by I^2*R.

Power dissipated by a load is always positive no matter which direction
the current flows through the load.

Chris

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:34:41 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

Consider that while current does flow both ways (or more correctly, is
ALTERNATING direction), POWER goes one way. "Direction" is useful
there.

How do you figure that? Power is a scalar quantity given by I^2*R.

Power dissipated by a load is always positive no matter which direction
the current flows through the load.

Chris

Basically what I said.

Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Mark Lloyd wrote:

Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.

Technically you don't have a "power source" in an electrical circuit.
You either have a voltage source or a current source or a combination of
the two.

Power doesn't flow in a circuit--only current does. Power is dissipated
by the various components in a circuit. The instantaneous power
dissipated by any particular component can be given by I^2*R, where I is
the instantaneous current flowing through the component and R is the
resistance of the component. (This is all assuming a purely resistive
load.)

The electrical utility applies an alternating voltage to the conductors
attached to the house. This causes an alternating current to flow in
those conductors, with the amount of current depending on the resistance
of the various circuits in the house.

Thus, whether you say the hot wire "goes to", or is "connected to", or
"comes from" the breaker, it is all equivalent.

Chris

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:14 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.

Technically you don't have a "power source" in an electrical circuit.
You either have a voltage source or a current source or a combination of
the two.


Right. Still a source.

Power doesn't flow in a circuit--only current does. Power is dissipated
by the various components in a circuit. The instantaneous power
dissipated by any particular component can be given by I^2*R, where I is
the instantaneous current flowing through the component and R is the
resistance of the component. (This is all assuming a purely resistive
load.)

The electrical utility applies an alternating voltage to the conductors
attached to the house. This causes an alternating current to flow in
those conductors, with the amount of current depending on the resistance
of the various circuits in the house.

Thus, whether you say the hot wire "goes to", or is "connected to", or
"comes from" the breaker, it is all equivalent.


No matter what, there is still a logical direction. Note that this
direction does seem to correspond to what direction the bill comes in.

Chris
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:14 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.

Technically you don't have a "power source" in an electrical circuit.
You either have a voltage source or a current source or a combination of
the two.

Power doesn't flow in a circuit--only current does. Power is dissipated
by the various components in a circuit. The instantaneous power
dissipated by any particular component can be given by I^2*R, where I is
the instantaneous current flowing through the component and R is the
resistance of the component. (This is all assuming a purely resistive
load.)

The electrical utility applies an alternating voltage to the conductors
attached to the house. This causes an alternating current to flow in
those conductors, with the amount of current depending on the resistance
of the various circuits in the house.

Thus, whether you say the hot wire "goes to", or is "connected to", or
"comes from" the breaker, it is all equivalent.

Chris


I am slow. There is no power source in an electrical circuit? Why do
they call it the power company? Ours is called Georgia Power.

Isn't a combination of voltage and current "power" by definition?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=georgia+power

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:34:41 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:


Consider that while current does flow both ways (or more correctly, is
ALTERNATING direction), POWER goes one way. "Direction" is useful
there.

How do you figure that? Power is a scalar quantity given by I^2*R.

Power dissipated by a load is always positive no matter which direction
the current flows through the load.

Chris


Basically what I said.

Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.
Hi,
This is quite improper statement. From basic Ohm's law, current/voltage
produces power measured in Watts usually which can be converted into
Joule, Calorie, Horse Power, etc. Current flows, power does not.
There is phantom power(false power, wasted power) in inductive cicuit.
Many loads are not pure resistive. There is always inductive/capacitive
component.

Terry wrote:

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:14 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:


Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.

Technically you don't have a "power source" in an electrical circuit.
You either have a voltage source or a current source or a combination of
the two.

Power doesn't flow in a circuit--only current does. Power is dissipated
by the various components in a circuit. The instantaneous power
dissipated by any particular component can be given by I^2*R, where I is
the instantaneous current flowing through the component and R is the
resistance of the component. (This is all assuming a purely resistive
load.)

The electrical utility applies an alternating voltage to the conductors
attached to the house. This causes an alternating current to flow in
those conductors, with the amount of current depending on the resistance
of the various circuits in the house.

Thus, whether you say the hot wire "goes to", or is "connected to", or
"comes from" the breaker, it is all equivalent.

Chris



I am slow. There is no power source in an electrical circuit? Why do
they call it the power company? Ours is called Georgia Power.

Isn't a combination of voltage and current "power" by definition?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=georgia+power
Hmmm,
They don't send power to you. They send electrons to you which will
produce power, LOL!

In article iUMDh.1122344$5R2.839435@pd7urf3no, Tony Hwang wrote:

Many loads are not pure resistive. There is always inductive/capacitive
component.

Really? Always? What's the inductive or capacitative component in a light
bulb?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Ours is called Kansas City Power and Light. Which am I receiving?

--
Steve Barker




"Terry" wrote in message
...

I am slow. There is no power source in an electrical circuit? Why do
they call it the power company? Ours is called Georgia Power.

Isn't a combination of voltage and current "power" by definition?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=georgia+power

On Feb 23, 8:55 pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
Terry wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:14 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.

Technically you don't have a "power source" in an electrical circuit.
You either have a voltage source or a current source or a combination of
the two.

Power doesn't flow in a circuit--only current does. Power is dissipated
by the various components in a circuit. The instantaneous power
dissipated by any particular component can be given by I^2*R, where I is
the instantaneous current flowing through the component and R is the
resistance of the component. (This is all assuming a purely resistive
load.)

The electrical utility applies an alternating voltage to the conductors
attached to the house. This causes an alternating current to flow in
those conductors, with the amount of current depending on the resistance
of the various circuits in the house.

Thus, whether you say the hot wire "goes to", or is "connected to", or
"comes from" the breaker, it is all equivalent.

Chris

I am slow. There is no power source in an electrical circuit? Why do
they call it the power company? Ours is called Georgia Power.

Isn't a combination of voltage and current "power" by definition?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=georgia+power

Hmmm,
They don't send power to you. They send electrons to you which will
produce power, LOL!

I know they only send electrons, and they get them back. Why am I
being charged for them?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article iUMDh.1122344$5R2.839435@pd7urf3no, Tony Hwang wrote:


Many loads are not pure resistive. There is always inductive/capacitive
component.


Really? Always? What's the inductive or capacitative component in a light
bulb?

Hi,
Filament has an amount of inductance/capacitance. it is very fine coil.
Even piece of wire has finite capacitance and inductnace. Why do you
think there is a surge current when light bulb is turn on? Ever heard of
phase compensating capacitor or lump inductor. Or go inside a power room
in any big commercial building, what do you see there? Do you know why
electric cable is some times criss crossed or twisted?
Simply to answer your question, Yes, really, always. It becomes very
critical on high frequency. Todays florescent bulbs are driven by 44KHz
current. Pure resistive circuit in real world is problably near none.
Z^2 is combination of R and j(Xl-Xc). Remember HS physics class?
Xl and Xc cancels each other, equal value, whatever left is either Xl,
or Xc. In real world most load is inductive. In inductive circuit
voltage is leading and current is lagging. This phase difference
produces wasted power which does not do any work. Ideally the phase
difference should be zero.
That is why KVA is not equal to Watt rating of a device.(efficiency)
I spent my working life on RF telecommunication(mobile and fixed base),
UPS, MG, Antenna farm, stuff like that.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 01:55:49 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:

Terry wrote:

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:14 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:


Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.

Technically you don't have a "power source" in an electrical circuit.
You either have a voltage source or a current source or a combination of
the two.

Power doesn't flow in a circuit--only current does. Power is dissipated
by the various components in a circuit. The instantaneous power
dissipated by any particular component can be given by I^2*R, where I is
the instantaneous current flowing through the component and R is the
resistance of the component. (This is all assuming a purely resistive
load.)

The electrical utility applies an alternating voltage to the conductors
attached to the house. This causes an alternating current to flow in
those conductors, with the amount of current depending on the resistance
of the various circuits in the house.

Thus, whether you say the hot wire "goes to", or is "connected to", or
"comes from" the breaker, it is all equivalent.

Chris



I am slow. There is no power source in an electrical circuit? Why do
they call it the power company? Ours is called Georgia Power.

Isn't a combination of voltage and current "power" by definition?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=georgia+power
Hmmm,
They don't send power to you. They send electrons to you which will
produce power, LOL!

It's an ENERGY source. That has no effect on the validity of the
concept of "source", and the direction (as mentioned with a circuit
breaker).

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On 23 Feb 2007 19:18:26 -0800, "Terry" wrote:

On Feb 23, 8:55 pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
Terry wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:14 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.

Technically you don't have a "power source" in an electrical circuit.
You either have a voltage source or a current source or a combination of
the two.

Power doesn't flow in a circuit--only current does. Power is dissipated
by the various components in a circuit. The instantaneous power
dissipated by any particular component can be given by I^2*R, where I is
the instantaneous current flowing through the component and R is the
resistance of the component. (This is all assuming a purely resistive
load.)

The electrical utility applies an alternating voltage to the conductors
attached to the house. This causes an alternating current to flow in
those conductors, with the amount of current depending on the resistance
of the various circuits in the house.

Thus, whether you say the hot wire "goes to", or is "connected to", or
"comes from" the breaker, it is all equivalent.

Chris

I am slow. There is no power source in an electrical circuit? Why do
they call it the power company? Ours is called Georgia Power.

Isn't a combination of voltage and current "power" by definition?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=georgia+power

Hmmm,
They don't send power to you. They send electrons to you which will
produce power, LOL!

I know they only send electrons, and they get them back. Why am I
being charged for them?


Why are you being charged for water, when they get most of that back
(city sewer)?

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:16:26 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

Ours is called Kansas City Power and Light. Which am I receiving?

The bill. All that paper and ink cost something :-)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 01:53:18 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:34:41 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:


Consider that while current does flow both ways (or more correctly, is
ALTERNATING direction), POWER goes one way. "Direction" is useful
there.

How do you figure that? Power is a scalar quantity given by I^2*R.

Power dissipated by a load is always positive no matter which direction
the current flows through the load.

Chris


Basically what I said.

Considering that there's a "source" of the power and a "load" where
it's dissipated. it would be hard not to see a direction in there.
Hi,
This is quite improper statement. From basic Ohm's law, current/voltage
produces power measured in Watts usually which can be converted into
Joule, Calorie, Horse Power, etc. Current flows, power does not.
There is phantom power(false power, wasted power) in inductive cicuit.
Many loads are not pure resistive. There is always inductive/capacitive
component.

Yes.

BTW, it was in dealing with that, that I learned about complex
numbers.

None of this changes the logical direction here.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

I hear ya. and we don't even use that anymore. Pay online and no bill is
sent. LOL

--
Steve Barker




"Harry" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:16:26 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

Ours is called Kansas City Power and Light. Which am I receiving?

The bill. All that paper and ink cost something :-)

Cause they are pushy (double meaning).

E = IR; Electrons = In, Returned.
--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
: Hmmm,
: They don't send power to you. They send electrons to you
which will
: produce power, LOL!
:
: I know they only send electrons, and they get them back. Why
am I
: being charged for them?
:
:

So many things to respond to. I'll have to reply inline.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:8HODh.1128989$R63.787394@pd7urf1no...

: Hi,
: Filament has an amount of inductance/capacitance. it is very
fine coil.
: Even piece of wire has finite capacitance and inductnace. Why
do you
: think there is a surge current when light bulb is turn on?
CY: Cause the resistance of the filament is much less when the
filament is cold.

Ever heard of
: phase compensating capacitor or lump inductor. Or go inside a
power room
: in any big commercial building, what do you see there? Do you
know why
: electric cable is some times criss crossed or twisted?
CY: Cables are twisted or crissed to reduce the ammount of power
going from wire to wire by inductance. Twisted pair phone wire
has less hum in the phone.

: Simply to answer your question, Yes, really, always. It becomes
very
: critical on high frequency. Todays florescent bulbs are driven
by 44KHz
: current. Pure resistive circuit in real world is problably near
none.
: Z^2 is combination of R and j(Xl-Xc). Remember HS physics
class?
: Xl and Xc cancels each other, equal value, whatever left is
either Xl,
: or Xc. In real world most load is inductive. In inductive
circuit
: voltage is leading and current is lagging. This phase
difference
: produces wasted power which does not do any work. Ideally the
phase
: difference should be zero.
CY: Didn't know that about fluorescent RF. I knew it was higher
voltage.

: That is why KVA is not equal to Watt rating of a
device.(efficiency)
: I spent my working life on RF telecommunication(mobile and
fixed base),
: UPS, MG, Antenna farm, stuff like that.
CY: Sounds like good experience to have.

On 23 Feb 2007 19:18:26 -0800, "Terry" wrote:

On Feb 23, 8:55 pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
Terry wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:14 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

[snip]


I know they only send electrons, and they get them back. Why am I
being charged for them?


The electrons are going back and forth (AC) and never get anywhere.
What's being sent is the kinetic energy carried by electrons.

Interestingly, power companies claim that electricity moves at the
speed of light. This is impossible for electrons (nonzero mass).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

1. Wires are twisted to cancel out differential mode noise. Not all
multiconductor phone cables are twisted pair. Always buy the ones that
are labelled for multi-line, they are twisted. It really sucks to run
a bunch of cable all around carrying 2 lines in it and find out you
can hear the person on the other phone. Happened to me years ago.

2. Ground fault breakers have neutral connected to them and then
neutral for circuit connects to the breaker along with the black wire
on the hot terminal. Reason is that the ground fault breaker needs to
monitor the hot to neutral voltage of the circuit and the most
accurate way to do that is by monitoring the individual neutral wire
for the circuit.

3. Power = Volts x amps (already stated). Other forms of the equation
for inductive or capacitive loads and 3 phase.

4. Yes, all electrical wires have some amount, however small, of
inductive and capacitive component. For electrical power, the
inductance is only an issue with frequencies greater then 60 hz. I
remember the days of wiring 400hz motor generators for computer
systems. The wires had to be derated for the 400 hz and you had to run
them in aluminum conduit because the inductive reactance of the 400 hz
in a steel conduit would cause the conductors to heat up. Steel is a
good shielding material and it keeps the fields within the conduit
much better then aluminum, therefore the fields heating up the wire.

So, a great thread in some ways. Wow, all this theory and we still
haven't figured out what the author's issue is.

"dreamchaser" writes:

2. Ground fault breakers have neutral connected to them and then
neutral for circuit connects to the breaker along with the black wire
on the hot terminal. Reason is that the ground fault breaker needs to
monitor the hot to neutral voltage of the circuit and the most
accurate way to do that is by monitoring the individual neutral wire
for the circuit.

No, it's because the GFI breaker wants to monitor the *current* in the
white and black wires. It passes both of them through a small current
transformer. If the output of the current transformer is nearly zero,
then all the current flowing in the black wire is balanced by the
current flowing (in the other direction) in the white wire, none of it
is leaking somewhere else, and all is well. But if there's output from
the current transformer, the black and white wire currents aren't equal,
some of the current is thus finding another path to neutral or ground
(or another hot wire, for that matter) and the GFI trips.

It can't work at all without monitoring white wire current, so the white
wire has to pass through the breaker.

Dave

On 24 Feb 2007 17:27:51 -0800, "dreamchaser"
wrote:

1. Wires are twisted to cancel out differential mode noise. Not all
multiconductor phone cables are twisted pair. Always buy the ones that
are labelled for multi-line, they are twisted. It really sucks to run
a bunch of cable all around carrying 2 lines in it and find out you
can hear the person on the other phone. Happened to me years ago.

2. Ground fault breakers have neutral connected to them and then
neutral for circuit connects to the breaker along with the black wire
on the hot terminal. Reason is that the ground fault breaker needs to
monitor the hot to neutral voltage of the circuit and the most
accurate way to do that is by monitoring the individual neutral wire
for the circuit.

3. Power = Volts x amps (already stated). Other forms of the equation
for inductive or capacitive loads and 3 phase.

4. Yes, all electrical wires have some amount, however small, of
inductive and capacitive component. For electrical power, the
inductance is only an issue with frequencies greater then 60 hz. I
remember the days of wiring 400hz motor generators for computer
systems. The wires had to be derated for the 400 hz and you had to run
them in aluminum conduit because the inductive reactance of the 400 hz
in a steel conduit would cause the conductors to heat up. Steel is a
good shielding material and it keeps the fields within the conduit
much better then aluminum, therefore the fields heating up the wire.

So, a great thread in some ways. Wow, all this theory and we still
haven't figured out what the author's issue is.


The original question was answered. The answer was no.
They don't make such an instrument.

I know they only send electrons, and they get them back. Why am I
being charged for them?


Why are you being charged for water, when they get most of that back
(city sewer)?

Now I understand things better. The power company sends clean electrons thru
the hot wire, they are used and get dirty in the house, and they go back to
the power company thru the neutral to be cleaned up and sent back out again
on the hot wire. I always wondered what that neutral wire was good for! 8)

Don Young

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 21:10:17 -0600, "Don Young"
wrote:



I know they only send electrons, and they get them back. Why am I
being charged for them?


Why are you being charged for water, when they get most of that back
(city sewer)?

Now I understand things better. The power company sends clean electrons thru
the hot wire, they are used and get dirty in the house, and they go back to
the power company thru the neutral to be cleaned up and sent back out again
on the hot wire. I always wondered what that neutral wire was good for! 8)

Don Young


And why have 2 hot wires, when those electrons could fit in one?

I checked that out. The other hot is just a signal wire for the
[censored] evil mind reading and writing interfaces. The ones that
make sure you vote for the "right" candidate.

You didn't actually read that, for it has never been written.