Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?


Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test
light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human
light bulb.

In article . com, wrote:
Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?

As long as you install the outlet in a proper receptacle box, sure.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Feb 9, 10:03 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...

Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?

Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test
light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human
light bulb.

Thanks. Do I need any special type of outlet? Not sure if there are
different ratings for 15 amp breakers on 14/2 or 20 amp breakers on
12/2.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 9, 10:03 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...

Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?

Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test
light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a
human
light bulb.

Thanks. Do I need any special type of outlet? Not sure if there are
different ratings for 15 amp breakers on 14/2 or 20 amp breakers on
12/2.


No. But, but if you're installing a box, you might might want to make it a
double, in case you want to add a switch, two more outlets or timer later.

Yes, as long as it's a 20 amp GFCI outlet




wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?

RBM wrote:
Yes, as long as it's a 20 amp GFCI outlet

Doesn't need to be 20A (according to the NEC, not sure about the CEC).
As long as you have at least two receptacles you can use 15A
receptacles, and a standard duplex outlet qualifies as two.

As for GFCI, that may depend on the area. It's certainly not required
around here.

Chris

The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs to
be a 20 amp outlet. If it's in an unfinished basement storage area, it needs
to be gfci protected



"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
Yes, as long as it's a 20 amp GFCI outlet

Doesn't need to be 20A (according to the NEC, not sure about the CEC). As
long as you have at least two receptacles you can use 15A receptacles, and
a standard duplex outlet qualifies as two.

As for GFCI, that may depend on the area. It's certainly not required
around here.

Chris

wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:03 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

wrote in message

roups.com...


Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?

Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test
light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human
light bulb.


Thanks. Do I need any special type of outlet? Not sure if there are
different ratings for 15 amp breakers on 14/2 or 20 amp breakers on
12/2.


15A outlets on 15A circuit.

15 or 20A outlet on 20A circuit. But if using 15A outlets there must be
at least 2 (a standard duplex outlet is 2).


--
bud--

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
Yes, as long as it's a 20 amp GFCI outlet

Doesn't need to be 20A (according to the NEC, not sure about the CEC). As
long as you have at least two receptacles you can use 15A receptacles,
and a standard duplex outlet qualifies as two.

As for GFCI, that may depend on the area. It's certainly not required
around here.

Chris




The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs to
be a 20 amp outlet. If it's in an unfinished basement storage area, it
needs to be gfci protected




Finished or unfinished, it's probably a good idea. Actually, finished
basements attract floods the way trailer parks attract tornadoes. I think
it's an adjunct of Murphy's Law or something. So, if you might want to use a
shop vac to scoop up the water, a GFCI is a pretty good idea.

RBM wrote:
The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs to
be a 20 amp outlet.

Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle,
so it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a
single 15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit.

If you were putting a single receptacle outlet (which is fairly rare in
a residential scenario) then yes, it would make sense to use a 20A one.

If it's in an unfinished basement storage area, it needs
to be gfci protected

That depends on the area. GFCI is not required here in Canada for
basements in general...only for receptacles within a certain distance of
wash basins.

Chris

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs
to be a 20 amp outlet.

Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle, so
it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a single
15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit.



I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of
what - two dollars, if that much?

Chris, I'm not saying you're incorrect. I am responding to the words written
by the OP, and I am referencing the NEC



"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs
to be a 20 amp outlet.

Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle, so
it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a single
15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit.

If you were putting a single receptacle outlet (which is fairly rare in a
residential scenario) then yes, it would make sense to use a 20A one.

If it's in an unfinished basement storage area, it needs
to be gfci protected

That depends on the area. GFCI is not required here in Canada for
basements in general...only for receptacles within a certain distance of
wash basins.

Chris

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of
what - two dollars, if that much?

It's not the price difference, it's the principle.

Chris

RBM wrote:
Chris, I'm not saying you're incorrect. I am responding to the words written
by the OP, and I am referencing the NEC

This is getting kind of nit-picky, but the OP said "an outlet".
Technically "outlet" could refer to a light, one or more receptacles,
switches, etc.

A standard dual 15A receptacle is a single outlet but two receptacles,
and would be perfectly acceptable on a 20A circuit.

Chris

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of
what - two dollars, if that much?

It's not the price difference, it's the principle.

Chris

Yeah, but why NOT use a 20A outlet, for the small difference in price (if
any)?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Yeah, but why NOT use a 20A outlet, for the small difference in price (if
any)?

I'm not saying its a bad idea. (In fact, under the circumstances I
probably would use a 20A dual receptacle.) I'm saying that it's not
required by code.

There's a small but (to me at least) significant difference.

Chris

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:03:41 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?


Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test
light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human
light bulb.


I always test both before and after turning off the breaker. That way
tests the tester too.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:03:41 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...
Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?


Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test
light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a
human
light bulb.


I always test both before and after turning off the breaker. That way
tests the tester too.
--
Mark Lloyd


Good idea. The tester could have a virus.

*** JUST KIDDING! *** :-)

On Feb 9, 10:41 am, Chris Friesen wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of
what - two dollars, if that much?

It's not the price difference, it's the principle.

Chris


I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this
correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps.
The 20 Amp outlets have that T slot that will allow for devices that
can draw more than 15 amps to be plugged in. Hence you cannot use
20Amp outlets in a 15 amp circuit, but 15 amp in 20 amp circuits are
alright.

Tom

snip
I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this
correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps.

Tom

The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the
15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are
labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above
their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have
molded in ratings like outlets. HTH

Joe

In article . com, on 9
Feb 2007 15:10:53 -0800, Joe wrote:


snip
I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this
correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps.

Tom

The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the
15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are
labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above
their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have
molded in ratings like outlets. HTH


Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through.


--
Seth Goodman

Because there is NO benefit from this waste of money. THAT's why.

--
Steve Barker

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

Yeah, but why NOT use a 20A outlet, for the small difference in price (if
any)?

Seth Goodman wrote:
In article . com,
on
9 Feb 2007 15:10:53 -0800, Joe wrote:


snip
I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this
correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20
Amps.

Tom

The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All
the 15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A
outlets
are labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's
above
their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have
molded in ratings like outlets. HTH


Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through.

Today I purchased some duplex GFCI receptales and the 20amp/20amp pass
through in the color I wanted was on sale cheaper than the 15amp/20amp
pass through, so in this case I got the 20/20, otherwise I'd have the
15/20.

Tom J

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:40:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:03:41 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
groups.com...
Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?


Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test
light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a
human
light bulb.


I always test both before and after turning off the breaker. That way
tests the tester too.
--
Mark Lloyd


Good idea. The tester could have a virus.

*** JUST KIDDING! *** :-)


What if your multimeter is running Vista?

Good deal, just don't use them on 15 amp circuits



"Tom J" wrote in message
link.net...
Seth Goodman wrote:
In article . com, on
9 Feb 2007 15:10:53 -0800, Joe wrote:


snip
I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this
correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20
Amps.

Tom

The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All
the 15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets
are labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above
their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have
molded in ratings like outlets. HTH


Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through.

Today I purchased some duplex GFCI receptales and the 20amp/20amp pass
through in the color I wanted was on sale cheaper than the 15amp/20amp
pass through, so in this case I got the 20/20, otherwise I'd have the
15/20.

Tom J

On 9 Feb 2007 07:00:28 -0800, wrote:

Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement.
We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage
area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used.
My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire?

That will work. Use a GFCI outlet.

On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 17:26:19 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

Because there is NO benefit from this waste of money. THAT's why.

What do you mean NO benefit? What if someday he wants to plug in a 20
amp device?

This is apparently the only receptacle on the whole 12 guage wire, so
there isn't even a question of added load from other items.
--
Steve Barker

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

Yeah, but why NOT use a 20A outlet, for the small difference in price (if
any)?

On 9 Feb 2007 14:27:47 -0800, "TH" wrote:

On Feb 9, 10:41 am, Chris Friesen wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of
what - two dollars, if that much?

It's not the price difference, it's the principle.

Chris


I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this
correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps.
The 20 Amp outlets have that T slot that will allow for devices that
can draw more than 15 amps to be plugged in. Hence you cannot use
20Amp outlets in a 15 amp circuit, but 15 amp in 20 amp circuits are
alright.

I think you are wrong and I think I know where you got the idea.

It is ok to use a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit, but not
becasue the receptacle can carry 20 amps. Rather it is because no
plug for a 20 amp device will fit into the slots in the 15 amp
receptacle. But such a plug |- would fit into a 20 amp receptacle

You could pplug in two 15 amp items, such as heaters, one in each half
of a 15 or 20 amp receptacle, and you'd be exceeding the capacity of
the receptacle, but the fuse should blow when you do that. They say
the fuse or circuit breaker is there to protect the wiring, but it
occurs to me that it also protects the receptacle.


If IUC by pass-through they don't mean how much is used through the
receptacle (by plugging something into it), but how much can go from
the feed wires, through the metal parts on the sides, the bridges, and
on to the next receptacle. Like when wires are connected to all four
screws of the recep, two from the fuse box, and two going onto the
next recep. Maybe it's pass-through that confused you, but that
doesn't refer to how much can be plugged into that recep.

Tom

When was the last time you actually saw a 20 a device with a special plug?

--
Steve Barker



"mm" wrote in message
...
What do you mean NO benefit? What if someday he wants to plug in a 20
amp device?

snip
I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this
correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps.

Tom

The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the
15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are
labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above
their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have
molded in ratings like outlets. HTH

Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through.

--
Seth Goodman

True, but generally preferred wiring practice these days is to use
pigtails for receptacles and not pass through the device itself.
Common sense would dictate that an 89 cent duplex oulet is a dubious
candidate for long term survival at the 20 amp level. Of course,
everyone can make whatever decisiuon they are comfortable with.
Cheers,

Joe

In article ,
says...
When was the last time you actually saw a 20 a device with a special plug?

When I put one on a 2kW baseboard heater (was hard-wired in). ;-)

--
Keith

In article .com,
says...
snip
I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this
correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps.

Tom

The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the
15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are
labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above
their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have
molded in ratings like outlets. HTH

Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through.

--
Seth Goodman

True, but generally preferred wiring practice these days is to use
pigtails for receptacles and not pass through the device itself.

The inspector I had wanted to see pigtails for neutral and ground
but didn't care about the hots (I pigtailed them anyway).

Common sense would dictate that an 89 cent duplex oulet is a dubious
candidate for long term survival at the 20 amp level.

Why? The passthrough connection is just a "wire". Less than a
buck for an outlet with 20A contacts, I'd agree.

Of course,
everyone can make whatever decisiuon they are comfortable with.

Sure. I generally use the $.89 variety myself. I've never had one
fail. Well, there is a broken one (plastic is cracked) in the
livingroom that is scheduled for replacement.

--
Keith

A 2000 watt baseboard heater that was 120 volt?? hmmmmm . That's pushing
the limits of a 20 amp breaker at 80%. Why would you switch it to a plug
in?

--
Steve Barker


"krw" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...
When was the last time you actually saw a 20 a device with a special
plug?

When I put one on a 2kW baseboard heater (was hard-wired in). ;-)

--
Keith

In article , "Steve Barker" wrote:
A 2000 watt baseboard heater that was 120 volt?? hmmmmm . That's pushing

You misspelled "exceeding". g

120V * 20A * 80% = 1920W.

the limits of a 20 amp breaker at 80%. Why would you switch it to a plug
in?


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Chris Friesen writes:
RBM wrote:

Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle,
so it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a
single 15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit.

If you were putting a single receptacle outlet (which is fairly rare in
a residential scenario) then yes, it would make sense to use a 20A one.

A side question: why is the Canadian standard practice for kitchen
outlets to use split duplex outlets (upper outlet on opposite phase from
lower outlet) with 3-wire wire and 2-pole 15 amp breaker, while the US
standard practice seems to be a single 20 A circuit feeding both halves
of the outlet?

Each has advantages compared to the other.

Dave

Nec requires at least two circuits for the kitchen outlets, and with counter
outlets being no more than 4 feet apart, it assures your appliance will be
close to an outlet, but it doesn't guaranty that you have at least two
circuits at all counter locations. The Canadian method makes good sense



"Dave Martindale" wrote in message
...
Chris Friesen writes:
RBM wrote:

Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle,
so it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a
single 15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit.

If you were putting a single receptacle outlet (which is fairly rare in
a residential scenario) then yes, it would make sense to use a 20A one.

A side question: why is the Canadian standard practice for kitchen
outlets to use split duplex outlets (upper outlet on opposite phase from
lower outlet) with 3-wire wire and 2-pole 15 amp breaker, while the US
standard practice seems to be a single 20 A circuit feeding both halves
of the outlet?

Each has advantages compared to the other.

Dave

In article ,
says...
A 2000 watt baseboard heater that was 120 volt?? hmmmmm .
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Make that a vanity kickboard heater.

That's what it is. I was quite surprised at 2kW too.

That's pushing
the limits of a 20 amp breaker at 80%. Why would you switch it to a plug
in?

I didn't like the romex wandering out through a slot in the
sheetrock under the vanity.

--
Keith

On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 20:34:36 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Good deal, just don't use them on 15 amp circuits


If you do, and mistakenly plug a 20A appliance in it will trip the
breaker. The GFCI will realize that this was an improper tripping
(since it's SURE it's on a 20A circuit), and start a fire anyway :-)



"Tom J" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Seth Goodman wrote:
In article . com, on
9 Feb 2007 15:10:53 -0800, Joe wrote:


snip
I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this
correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20
Amps.

Tom

The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All
the 15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets
are labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above
their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have
molded in ratings like outlets. HTH


Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through.

Today I purchased some duplex GFCI receptales and the 20amp/20amp pass
through in the color I wanted was on sale cheaper than the 15amp/20amp
pass through, so in this case I got the 20/20, otherwise I'd have the
15/20.

Tom J

Harry wrote:
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 20:34:36 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Good deal, just don't use them on 15 amp circuits


If you do, and mistakenly plug a 20A appliance in it will trip the
breaker. The GFCI will realize that this was an improper tripping
(since it's SURE it's on a 20A circuit), and start a fire anyway :-)

Yea, Really!! ;-)

Tom J