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Wiring Electrical outlet
Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire
down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement. We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used. My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire? |
Wiring Electrical outlet
wrote in message
ups.com... Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement. We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used. My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire? Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human light bulb. |
Wiring Electrical outlet
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Wiring Electrical outlet
On Feb 9, 10:03 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement. We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used. My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire? Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human light bulb. Thanks. Do I need any special type of outlet? Not sure if there are different ratings for 15 amp breakers on 14/2 or 20 amp breakers on 12/2. |
Wiring Electrical outlet
wrote in message
oups.com... On Feb 9, 10:03 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement. We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used. My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire? Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human light bulb. Thanks. Do I need any special type of outlet? Not sure if there are different ratings for 15 amp breakers on 14/2 or 20 amp breakers on 12/2. No. But, but if you're installing a box, you might might want to make it a double, in case you want to add a switch, two more outlets or timer later. |
Wiring Electrical outlet
Yes, as long as it's a 20 amp GFCI outlet
wrote in message ups.com... Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement. We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used. My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire? |
Wiring Electrical outlet
RBM wrote:
Yes, as long as it's a 20 amp GFCI outlet Doesn't need to be 20A (according to the NEC, not sure about the CEC). As long as you have at least two receptacles you can use 15A receptacles, and a standard duplex outlet qualifies as two. As for GFCI, that may depend on the area. It's certainly not required around here. Chris |
Wiring Electrical outlet
The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs to
be a 20 amp outlet. If it's in an unfinished basement storage area, it needs to be gfci protected "Chris Friesen" wrote in message ... RBM wrote: Yes, as long as it's a 20 amp GFCI outlet Doesn't need to be 20A (according to the NEC, not sure about the CEC). As long as you have at least two receptacles you can use 15A receptacles, and a standard duplex outlet qualifies as two. As for GFCI, that may depend on the area. It's certainly not required around here. Chris |
Wiring Electrical outlet
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Wiring Electrical outlet
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
... "Chris Friesen" wrote in message ... RBM wrote: Yes, as long as it's a 20 amp GFCI outlet Doesn't need to be 20A (according to the NEC, not sure about the CEC). As long as you have at least two receptacles you can use 15A receptacles, and a standard duplex outlet qualifies as two. As for GFCI, that may depend on the area. It's certainly not required around here. Chris The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs to be a 20 amp outlet. If it's in an unfinished basement storage area, it needs to be gfci protected Finished or unfinished, it's probably a good idea. Actually, finished basements attract floods the way trailer parks attract tornadoes. I think it's an adjunct of Murphy's Law or something. So, if you might want to use a shop vac to scoop up the water, a GFCI is a pretty good idea. |
Wiring Electrical outlet
RBM wrote:
The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs to be a 20 amp outlet. Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle, so it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a single 15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit. If you were putting a single receptacle outlet (which is fairly rare in a residential scenario) then yes, it would make sense to use a 20A one. If it's in an unfinished basement storage area, it needs to be gfci protected That depends on the area. GFCI is not required here in Canada for basements in general...only for receptacles within a certain distance of wash basins. Chris |
Wiring Electrical outlet
"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
... RBM wrote: The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs to be a 20 amp outlet. Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle, so it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a single 15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit. I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of what - two dollars, if that much? |
Wiring Electrical outlet
Chris, I'm not saying you're incorrect. I am responding to the words written
by the OP, and I am referencing the NEC "Chris Friesen" wrote in message ... RBM wrote: The OP just said "an outlet", which on a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs to be a 20 amp outlet. Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle, so it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a single 15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit. If you were putting a single receptacle outlet (which is fairly rare in a residential scenario) then yes, it would make sense to use a 20A one. If it's in an unfinished basement storage area, it needs to be gfci protected That depends on the area. GFCI is not required here in Canada for basements in general...only for receptacles within a certain distance of wash basins. Chris |
Wiring Electrical outlet
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of what - two dollars, if that much? It's not the price difference, it's the principle. Chris |
Wiring Electrical outlet
RBM wrote:
Chris, I'm not saying you're incorrect. I am responding to the words written by the OP, and I am referencing the NEC This is getting kind of nit-picky, but the OP said "an outlet". Technically "outlet" could refer to a light, one or more receptacles, switches, etc. A standard dual 15A receptacle is a single outlet but two receptacles, and would be perfectly acceptable on a 20A circuit. Chris |
Wiring Electrical outlet
"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of what - two dollars, if that much? It's not the price difference, it's the principle. Chris Yeah, but why NOT use a 20A outlet, for the small difference in price (if any)? |
Wiring Electrical outlet
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Yeah, but why NOT use a 20A outlet, for the small difference in price (if any)? I'm not saying its a bad idea. (In fact, under the circumstances I probably would use a 20A dual receptacle.) I'm saying that it's not required by code. There's a small but (to me at least) significant difference. Chris |
Wiring Electrical outlet
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:03:41 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement. We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used. My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire? Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human light bulb. I always test both before and after turning off the breaker. That way tests the tester too. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has no place in the curriculum of our nation's public school classes." -- Ted Kennedy |
Wiring Electrical outlet
"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
... On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:03:41 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: wrote in message roups.com... Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement. We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used. My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire? Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human light bulb. I always test both before and after turning off the breaker. That way tests the tester too. -- Mark Lloyd Good idea. The tester could have a virus. *** JUST KIDDING! *** :-) |
Wiring Electrical outlet
On Feb 9, 10:41 am, Chris Friesen wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of what - two dollars, if that much? It's not the price difference, it's the principle. Chris I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps. The 20 Amp outlets have that T slot that will allow for devices that can draw more than 15 amps to be plugged in. Hence you cannot use 20Amp outlets in a 15 amp circuit, but 15 amp in 20 amp circuits are alright. Tom |
Wiring Electrical outlet
snip I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps. Tom The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the 15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have molded in ratings like outlets. HTH Joe |
Wiring Electrical outlet
In article . com, on 9
Feb 2007 15:10:53 -0800, Joe wrote: snip I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps. Tom The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the 15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have molded in ratings like outlets. HTH Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through. -- Seth Goodman |
Wiring Electrical outlet
Because there is NO benefit from this waste of money. THAT's why.
-- Steve Barker "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... Yeah, but why NOT use a 20A outlet, for the small difference in price (if any)? |
Wiring Electrical outlet
Seth Goodman wrote:
In article . com, on 9 Feb 2007 15:10:53 -0800, Joe wrote: snip I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps. Tom The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the 15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have molded in ratings like outlets. HTH Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through. Today I purchased some duplex GFCI receptales and the 20amp/20amp pass through in the color I wanted was on sale cheaper than the 15amp/20amp pass through, so in this case I got the 20/20, otherwise I'd have the 15/20. Tom J |
Wiring Electrical outlet
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:40:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "Mark Lloyd" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:03:41 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: wrote in message groups.com... Hi everyone. When we built our house I had the electrician run a wire down to the basement so we could tap into it to finish the basement. We finished the basement, but ran a new line. So now in the storage area I have a 12/2 wire hooked into a 20 amp breaker not being used. My question - can I simply wire an outlet to this wire? Yes. Turn off the breaker, though, and double check with a meter or test light to be sure it's really off. This assumes you don't want to be a human light bulb. I always test both before and after turning off the breaker. That way tests the tester too. -- Mark Lloyd Good idea. The tester could have a virus. *** JUST KIDDING! *** :-) What if your multimeter is running Vista? |
Wiring Electrical outlet
Good deal, just don't use them on 15 amp circuits
"Tom J" wrote in message link.net... Seth Goodman wrote: In article . com, on 9 Feb 2007 15:10:53 -0800, Joe wrote: snip I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps. Tom The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the 15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have molded in ratings like outlets. HTH Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through. Today I purchased some duplex GFCI receptales and the 20amp/20amp pass through in the color I wanted was on sale cheaper than the 15amp/20amp pass through, so in this case I got the 20/20, otherwise I'd have the 15/20. Tom J |
Wiring Electrical outlet
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Wiring Electrical outlet
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 17:26:19 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote: Because there is NO benefit from this waste of money. THAT's why. What do you mean NO benefit? What if someday he wants to plug in a 20 amp device? This is apparently the only receptacle on the whole 12 guage wire, so there isn't even a question of added load from other items. -- Steve Barker "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... Yeah, but why NOT use a 20A outlet, for the small difference in price (if any)? |
Wiring Electrical outlet
On 9 Feb 2007 14:27:47 -0800, "TH" wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:41 am, Chris Friesen wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: I don't understand this debate. We're talking about a price difference of what - two dollars, if that much? It's not the price difference, it's the principle. Chris I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps. The 20 Amp outlets have that T slot that will allow for devices that can draw more than 15 amps to be plugged in. Hence you cannot use 20Amp outlets in a 15 amp circuit, but 15 amp in 20 amp circuits are alright. I think you are wrong and I think I know where you got the idea. It is ok to use a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit, but not becasue the receptacle can carry 20 amps. Rather it is because no plug for a 20 amp device will fit into the slots in the 15 amp receptacle. But such a plug |- would fit into a 20 amp receptacle You could pplug in two 15 amp items, such as heaters, one in each half of a 15 or 20 amp receptacle, and you'd be exceeding the capacity of the receptacle, but the fuse should blow when you do that. They say the fuse or circuit breaker is there to protect the wiring, but it occurs to me that it also protects the receptacle. If IUC by pass-through they don't mean how much is used through the receptacle (by plugging something into it), but how much can go from the feed wires, through the metal parts on the sides, the bridges, and on to the next receptacle. Like when wires are connected to all four screws of the recep, two from the fuse box, and two going onto the next recep. Maybe it's pass-through that confused you, but that doesn't refer to how much can be plugged into that recep. Tom |
Wiring Electrical outlet
When was the last time you actually saw a 20 a device with a special plug?
-- Steve Barker "mm" wrote in message ... What do you mean NO benefit? What if someday he wants to plug in a 20 amp device? |
Wiring Electrical outlet
snip
I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps. Tom The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the 15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have molded in ratings like outlets. HTH Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through. -- Seth Goodman True, but generally preferred wiring practice these days is to use pigtails for receptacles and not pass through the device itself. Common sense would dictate that an 89 cent duplex oulet is a dubious candidate for long term survival at the 20 amp level. Of course, everyone can make whatever decisiuon they are comfortable with. Cheers, Joe |
Wiring Electrical outlet
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Wiring Electrical outlet
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Wiring Electrical outlet
A 2000 watt baseboard heater that was 120 volt?? hmmmmm . That's pushing
the limits of a 20 amp breaker at 80%. Why would you switch it to a plug in? -- Steve Barker "krw" wrote in message t... In article , says... When was the last time you actually saw a 20 a device with a special plug? When I put one on a 2kW baseboard heater (was hard-wired in). ;-) -- Keith |
Wiring Electrical outlet
In article , "Steve Barker" wrote:
A 2000 watt baseboard heater that was 120 volt?? hmmmmm . That's pushing You misspelled "exceeding". g 120V * 20A * 80% = 1920W. the limits of a 20 amp breaker at 80%. Why would you switch it to a plug in? -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
Wiring Electrical outlet
Chris Friesen writes:
RBM wrote: Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle, so it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a single 15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit. If you were putting a single receptacle outlet (which is fairly rare in a residential scenario) then yes, it would make sense to use a 20A one. A side question: why is the Canadian standard practice for kitchen outlets to use split duplex outlets (upper outlet on opposite phase from lower outlet) with 3-wire wire and 2-pole 15 amp breaker, while the US standard practice seems to be a single 20 A circuit feeding both halves of the outlet? Each has advantages compared to the other. Dave |
Wiring Electrical outlet
Nec requires at least two circuits for the kitchen outlets, and with counter
outlets being no more than 4 feet apart, it assures your appliance will be close to an outlet, but it doesn't guaranty that you have at least two circuits at all counter locations. The Canadian method makes good sense "Dave Martindale" wrote in message ... Chris Friesen writes: RBM wrote: Yes, but a standard household outlet is actually a *duplex* receptacle, so it counts as two receptacles for the purpose of that rule. Thus, a single 15A duplex receptacle can be put on a 20A circuit. If you were putting a single receptacle outlet (which is fairly rare in a residential scenario) then yes, it would make sense to use a 20A one. A side question: why is the Canadian standard practice for kitchen outlets to use split duplex outlets (upper outlet on opposite phase from lower outlet) with 3-wire wire and 2-pole 15 amp breaker, while the US standard practice seems to be a single 20 A circuit feeding both halves of the outlet? Each has advantages compared to the other. Dave |
Wiring Electrical outlet
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Wiring Electrical outlet
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 20:34:36 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote: Good deal, just don't use them on 15 amp circuits If you do, and mistakenly plug a 20A appliance in it will trip the breaker. The GFCI will realize that this was an improper tripping (since it's SURE it's on a 20A circuit), and start a fire anyway :-) "Tom J" wrote in message hlink.net... Seth Goodman wrote: In article . com, on 9 Feb 2007 15:10:53 -0800, Joe wrote: snip I'm no expert, so please correct me if I don't understand this correctly. I understood that 15 Amp outlets are all rated for 20 Amps. Tom The ratings on the outlets are molded into the plastic bodies. All the 15A oulets in my stock are labeled '15A', period.The 20A outlets are labeled '20A'. That seems to indicate that using the 15A's above their capacity is not appropriate. Note that repair plugs also have molded in ratings like outlets. HTH Any UL-listed 15 A outlet is rated for 20 A pass through. Today I purchased some duplex GFCI receptales and the 20amp/20amp pass through in the color I wanted was on sale cheaper than the 15amp/20amp pass through, so in this case I got the 20/20, otherwise I'd have the 15/20. Tom J |
Wiring Electrical outlet
Harry wrote:
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 20:34:36 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote: Good deal, just don't use them on 15 amp circuits If you do, and mistakenly plug a 20A appliance in it will trip the breaker. The GFCI will realize that this was an improper tripping (since it's SURE it's on a 20A circuit), and start a fire anyway :-) Yea, Really!! ;-) Tom J |
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