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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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FS Six 20A outlet shop electrical panel, each outlet protected
Your site was still down when I tried it at 11:11pm central time.
-- Jeff P. A truck carrying copies of Roget's Thesaurus over-turned on the highway. The local newspaper reported that the onlookers were "stunned, overwhelmed, astonished, bewildered, and dumfounded." Check out my woodshop at: www.sawdustcentral.com "Ignoramus29737" wrote in message ... my site was down for a while, it is back up again. i On 20 Feb 2005 18:10:02 GMT, Ignoramus29737 wrote: For Sale is a panel of 6 20A outlets. Each outlet is individually protected with a separate breaker! http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/outlet-panel/ You run a single circuit to your shop (say 30-40A 220V with neutral), with one breaker in the main panel, connect it to the panel I am selling, and voila, you are done. This is a very cheap way to have a lot of protected 20A outlets, compared to alternatives (buying electrical boxes, premium 20A outlets, subpanel, many breakers etc). Nice for a shop where you have a lot of tools that need to be plugged in. This is a pull from a large 5 kvA working UPS. I have another one, which I will keep for myself. $25 plus shipping (maybe $10 or so) takes it. Local pickup is free (Chicagoland). i -- |
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Hi, I don't seem to be able to get email thru to you. I will take the panel
if still available. Please contact me. Sincerely, John Lovallo "Ignoramus29737" wrote in message ... On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:04:29 GMT, Jeff P. wrote: Your site was still down when I tried it at 11:11pm central time. it is up now On 20 Feb 2005 18:10:02 GMT, Ignoramus29737 wrote: For Sale is a panel of 6 20A outlets. Each outlet is individually protected with a separate breaker! http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/outlet-panel/ -- |
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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:11:02 -0000, "John Lovallo"
wrote: Hi, I don't seem to be able to get email thru to you. I will take the panel if still available. Please contact me. Sincerely, John Lovallo With all the problems I've had and others trying to get to the site, good thing this is a one time sale. later, tom @ www.BookmarkAdmin.com "Ignoramus29737" wrote in message ... On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:04:29 GMT, Jeff P. wrote: Your site was still down when I tried it at 11:11pm central time. it is up now On 20 Feb 2005 18:10:02 GMT, Ignoramus29737 wrote: For Sale is a panel of 6 20A outlets. Each outlet is individually protected with a separate breaker! http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/outlet-panel/ -- |
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On 21 Feb 2005 18:09:27 GMT, Ignoramus15794
wrote: On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:34:36 -0500, tom wrote: Hi, I don't seem to be able to get email thru to you. I will take the panel if still available. Please contact me. Sincerely, John Lovallo With all the problems I've had and others trying to get to the site, good thing this is a one time sale. tom @ www.BookmarkAdmin.com http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/outlet-panel/ It should be up now. I am using that site as a development site for my main website www.algebra.com (my domain), so, sometimes it is down Noticed the PR6, very nice. if I mess up some apache configuration. Who hasn't been there before.....geez.... i later, tom |
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No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and
not-code-compliant device. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; 2. Uninsulated terminations; I can't tell for sure, but I don't think these breakers are designed for 20A AC loads. Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and 1/0 AWG copper conductors. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A. The OP could be held liable for any injury, death, or damage that ensues from the use of this device. Kudos for creativity, but it should be destroyed immediately. Mr Fixit eh |
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"Mr Fixit eh" writes:
No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; 2. Uninsulated terminations; I can't speak to code issues, but I've routinely seen both #1 and #2 in plenty of unmodified, UL listed power strips both high and low quality, and in other devices as well. Gregm |
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"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message ups.com... No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; 2. Uninsulated terminations; Not sure about that for things like this. This is not house wiring. I can't tell for sure, but I don't think these breakers are designed for 20A AC loads. Didn't they have 20A breakers on them? Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and 1/0 AWG copper conductors. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A. How many circuit breakers do you have in your panel? Add up the load total of all of those breakers. It's very common for that to total more than the 200A or whatever is coming into your house. As long as the device is protected by a 20A breaker and #12 wire, it's perfectly safe. Remember - the breaker in your panel protects the wire. The wire is rated for a certain level of current. It just does not matter what is attached to the other end. Think of this - by code you can put 12 devices on a piece of #12 wire on 20A breaker. By your logic, I'd need a 240A breaker and some nasty sized wire for that circuit. Sorry - but you were thinking about this incorrectly. The OP could be held liable for any injury, death, or damage that ensues from the use of this device. Kudos for creativity, but it should be destroyed immediately. Not if he didn't manufacture it. If he's just selling it he's no more liable for it than if you sell a car and someone dies in it from some defect. Even if he did build it, his liability may be quite small. If the device is UL listed, you're point is even less valid. There's a lot of talk here about liability for this and for that - even to the point of people claiming that one can be held liable for posts in this forum. Bull. It's always best to check with a lawyer first before making these statements. |
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In article . com,
Mr Fixit eh wrote: No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; 2. Uninsulated terminations; I can't tell for sure, but I don't think these breakers are designed for 20A AC loads. Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and 1/0 AWG copper conductors. WRONG! Size the 'upstream' wiring to match whatever size of breaker is used to feed the outlet panel. IF smaller than 120A, then the upstream breaker will trip *before* the individual breakers. This is perfectly acceptable. It just means that you cannot use all the sub-circuits to maximum capacity simultaneously. Which *is* the 'normal' state of affairs. Furthermore, 120A only needs #2 wire. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A. Do you work for Microsoft Tech Support? This is eerily reminiscent of their responses -- "technically accurate, but utterly meaningless in application". It is entirely allowable to have sub-strings with their own breakers, where the aggregate maximum load exceeds the rating of the feedline/breaker. If you add up the individual breakers in a typical 'home' panel, you'll find that they often total _more_ than 150% of the main breaker rating, just for one example. Heck, the electric stove, electric clothes dryer, and the air-conditioner compressor will often equal the main breaker all by themselves. Not counting the 8-10 (or more) other circuits in the house. |
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"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message ups.com... No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; 2. Uninsulated terminations; I can't tell for sure, but I don't think these breakers are designed for 20A AC loads. Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and 1/0 AWG copper conductors. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A. The OP could be held liable for any injury, death, or damage that ensues from the use of this device. Kudos for creativity, but it should be destroyed immediately. Mr Fixit eh Where in the NEC does it prohibit soldered connections? |
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"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message ups.com... No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; 2. Uninsulated terminations; I can't tell for sure, but I don't think these breakers are designed for 20A AC loads. Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and 1/0 AWG copper conductors. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A. The OP could be held liable for any injury, death, or damage that ensues from the use of this device. Kudos for creativity, but it should be destroyed immediately. Mr Fixit eh No offence to you, but please look at your breaker panel. Does the main breaker current rating equal the sum of all the individual breakers? |
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"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message ups.com... No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; 2. Uninsulated terminations; I can't tell for sure, but I don't think these breakers are designed for 20A AC loads. Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and 1/0 AWG copper conductors. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A. The OP could be held liable for any injury, death, or damage that ensues from the use of this device. Kudos for creativity, but it should be destroyed immediately. Mr Fixit eh And how many 15A receptacles do you have on one breaker? |
#12
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"Ignoramus15841" wrote in message ... The sensible thing to do for this panel would be to have a 40 A 220V circuit for this panel, protected at the main panel by a suitable breaker. This is the second or third time you've said this and it's just wrong. There is no reason it cannot be on a #12 wire protected by a 20A breaker. It's no different than your house wiring. -- -Mike- |
#13
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If I bought it, I would hook it directly to the incoming main wires, or
perhaps even snake some wires out and bypass the meter entirely. - Jeff Wisnia |
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"Ignoramus15841" wrote in message ... You are right that it CAN be on a 20A circuit. It does not mean that doing that is optimal for someone with a home shop (which is where, I think, this panel fits best). That would limit the number of simultaneously running devices. Think about someone running a compressor, a dust collector, a shaper with a vacuum attached to some strategic spot. When I think about circuit selection for this panel, with a shop like that in mind, I think that 40A 220V would be best. Any more is a waste, but having less would run a risk of not being able to power up a fancy shop in the most effective manner. I know where you're coming from but the mistake I think you're making is that you are thinking of this device as a subpanel and not as a power strip, which is what it is more like. -- -Mike- |
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"Matt" wrote in message oups.com... If I bought it, I would hook it directly to the incoming main wires, or perhaps even snake some wires out and bypass the meter entirely. - Jeff Wisnia #12 extension cord from the BORG, plugged right into the convenience outlet in the bottom of the pole transformer and into the handy dandy panel. -- -Mike- |
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#17
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In article . com, Mr Fixit eh
says... Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and 1/0 AWG copper conductors. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A. Remind me to not let you fix anything in *my* house. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:45:04 GMT, "Rick" wrote:
"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message oups.com... No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; 2. Uninsulated terminations; I can't tell for sure, but I don't think these breakers are designed for 20A AC loads. Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and 1/0 AWG copper conductors. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A. The OP could be held liable for any injury, death, or damage that ensues from the use of this device. Kudos for creativity, but it should be destroyed immediately. Mr Fixit eh Where in the NEC does it prohibit soldered connections? In summaryl, no splice shall rely on solder for mechanical and electrical connections per 2002 NEC 110.14(b) IMHO: this means you can use solder to dress up the splice, or tin the tips of stranded wire for easier wirenutting. As for grounding: I remember re-itterates no fusable metals, but don't remember where. But 110.14(b) basicly says no. hth, tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com |
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:52:32 GMT, "Rick" wrote:
"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message oups.com... No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; 2. Uninsulated terminations; I can't tell for sure, but I don't think these breakers are designed for 20A AC loads. Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and 1/0 AWG copper conductors. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A. The OP could be held liable for any injury, death, or damage that ensues from the use of this device. Kudos for creativity, but it should be destroyed immediately. Mr Fixit eh No offence to you, but please look at your breaker panel. Does the main breaker current rating equal the sum of all the individual breakers? Ofcouse not, breakers are rated for the conductor sizes, and the disconnect is rated for the service enterance conductors and panel. imho, tom @ www.ChopURL.com |
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In article . com, "Mr Fixit eh" wrote:
No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device. Wrong: cord-and-plug connected devices do not fall under the purview of the NEC, which applies only to premises wiring. 1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC; Wrong again. The NEC prohibits connections from relying on solder *only*, but, again, the NEC does not apply to cord-and-plug connected devices. And there's no reason not to use solder with AC. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? |
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In article , ignoramus15841
@NOSPAM.15841.invalid says... On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:01:34 -0500, Mike Marlow wrote: "Ignoramus15841" wrote in message ... You are right that it CAN be on a 20A circuit. It does not mean that doing that is optimal for someone with a home shop (which is where, I think, this panel fits best). That would limit the number of simultaneously running devices. Think about someone running a compressor, a dust collector, a shaper with a vacuum attached to some strategic spot. When I think about circuit selection for this panel, with a shop like that in mind, I think that 40A 220V would be best. Any more is a waste, but having less would run a risk of not being able to power up a fancy shop in the most effective manner. I know where you're coming from but the mistake I think you're making is that you are thinking of this device as a subpanel and not as a power strip, which is what it is more like. That each outlet has its own breaker, is a feature similar to what a subpanel provides (protection for individual circuits). A power strip, at best, protects the entire strip. But the the breakers in this "panel" are not qualified for branch circuit protection, so it doesn't qualify as a subpanel by any stretch of the imagination, and if it were wired permanently to a breaker larger than 20A would violate the NEC. Depending on its construction, it may or may not be legal if permanently wired to a 20A circuit. The safest bet is to use it as a good rugged power strip. Ned Simmons |
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"The Real Tom" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:45:04 GMT, "Rick" wrote: Where in the NEC does it prohibit soldered connections? In summaryl, no splice shall rely on solder for mechanical and electrical connections per 2002 NEC 110.14(b) IMHO: this means you can use solder to dress up the splice, or tin the tips of stranded wire for easier wirenutting. As for grounding: I remember re-itterates no fusable metals, but don't remember where. But 110.14(b) basicly says no. OK-my 1999 copy says there must be a mechanically and electrically secure joint before soldering... |
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"The Real Tom" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:52:32 GMT, "Rick" wrote: No offence to you, but please look at your breaker panel. Does the main breaker current rating equal the sum of all the individual breakers? Ofcouse not, breakers are rated for the conductor sizes, and the disconnect is rated for the service enterance conductors and panel. imho, Exactly the point I was trying to make... |
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In article , ignoramus15841
@NOSPAM.15841.invalid says... On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:24:22 -0500, Ned Simmons wrote: In article , ignoramus15841 @NOSPAM.15841.invalid says... That each outlet has its own breaker, is a feature similar to what a subpanel provides (protection for individual circuits). A power strip, at best, protects the entire strip. But the the breakers in this "panel" are not qualified for branch circuit protection, Well, outlets are not branch circuits either. But those 20A receps must be protected by 20A overcurrent protection and the CBs in your panel aren't qualified for branch circuit overcurrent protection. NEC's definition of "Branch Circuit": "Branch Circuit. The circuit conductors between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet (s)." so it doesn't qualify as a subpanel by any stretch of the imagination, and if it were wired permanently to a breaker larger than 20A would violate the NEC. You may well be right, but I am curious just what provision of NECit would violate. For starters: "240-3. Protection of Conductors Conductors, other than flexible cords and fixture wires, shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with their ampacities as specified in Section 310-15, unless otherwise permitted or required in (a) through (g)." See 210-24 for requirements for protection of receps. Depending on its construction, it may or may not be legal if permanently wired to a 20A circuit. The safest bet is to use it as a good rugged power strip. It can be wired to a 20A 220V circuit (3 strips on one leg and 3 on another), is that correct? Possibly, if the materials and construction of the panel are suitable. Ned Simmons |
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"Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... But those 20A receps must be protected by 20A overcurrent protection and the CBs in your panel aren't qualified for branch circuit overcurrent protection. Huh??? NEC's definition of "Branch Circuit": "Branch Circuit. The circuit conductors between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet (s)." I don't understand what the purpose of this quote is. It does not relate to what you typed immediately above it. For starters: "240-3. Protection of Conductors Conductors, other than flexible cords and fixture wires, shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with their ampacities as specified in Section 310-15, unless otherwise permitted or required in (a) through (g)." See 210-24 for requirements for protection of receps. Again - why post this quoted text? The branch circuit is protected in the panel. -- -Mike- |
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#27
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"Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... In article , says... "Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... But those 20A receps must be protected by 20A overcurrent protection and the CBs in your panel aren't qualified for branch circuit overcurrent protection. Huh??? I thought that was pretty clear. Do you have a specific question or comment? "Huh???" is pretty vague. Well, it begs an explanation for a statement that is completely against NEC and the purpose of Circuit Breakers. Of course the breakers in your panel are qualified for branch circuit protection. That is in fact, exactly what they are there for. Obviously, you mean to state something else but the vague nature of the way you have either made statements like the above and the included NEC text without explanation of the point you are trying to make, causes it to be difficult for others to understand what you are saying. I can't argue with a lot of what you're trying to say, because I can't understand what you're trying to say. There's one thought that is occurring to me and that is that you are using the word "panel" to refer to the unit being sold by the OP that started this whole thread as opposed to the breaker panel in the house. Throughout this thread we have used the word panel to refer to the later. If my guess is true then I do understand what you are trying to say and in fact I agree. But, that's a guess and if my guess is wrong then there's something very wrong in what you are saying. NEC's definition of "Branch Circuit": "Branch Circuit. The circuit conductors between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet (s)." I don't understand what the purpose of this quote is. It does not relate to what you typed immediately above it. It relates to my use in the previous paragraph of the term "branch circuit", which has a very specific meaning in the NEC. It would have been a lot more beneficial to explain yourself briefly instead of a reply like this which is really quite obtuse. Clearly at least one person here is not getting the point your are trying to get across and this response does nothing to clear that up. For starters: "240-3. Protection of Conductors Conductors, other than flexible cords and fixture wires, shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with their ampacities as specified in Section 310-15, unless otherwise permitted or required in (a) through (g)." See 210-24 for requirements for protection of receps. Again - why post this quoted text? The branch circuit is protected in the panel. Not if you were to take the suggestion made in the first post in this thread, and repeated in other posts, to feed the panel from a larger than 20A circuit. Ok... but again, simply quoting NEC without an explanation of why you are quoting it - an explanation of your objection which uses the NEC as validation, does nothing to further a conversation, or (if it is your intent) the understanding of the poster in error. -- -Mike- |
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Ned Simmons wrote:
But the the breakers in this "panel" are not qualified for branch circuit protection, so it doesn't qualify as a subpanel by any stretch of the imagination, and if it were wired permanently to a breaker larger than 20A would violate the NEC. Depending on its construction, it may or may not be legal if permanently wired to a 20A circuit. The safest bet is to use it as a good rugged power strip. Any reason this device couldn't be wired to a 30A electric clothes dryer pigtail and plugged into a 240V dryer receptacle, to provide 120V, 60A total to downstream devices? The receptacle would have to be all 4 proper conductors of course: 2 hots, neutral, and ground. The individual 12 ga conductors on the device are protected by the onboard 20A breakers. If the breakers are not qualified for branch circuit protection, what are they qualified for, and would that be sufficient for a non-permanent (i.e. plugged-in) device? %mod% |
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#31
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Wow, who knew this would generate so many posts!
I goofed in that 120A supply would not be needed. In fact 20A branch circuit protection in the panel would be adequate. Of course, then it would defeat the purpose of the device, because the branch circuit breaker would be tripping continually. In order to have adequate power for multiple shop tools, you would need to increase the amperage supplied to the device. The 30A 220V feeder would be a practical solution, however as was pointed out in a previous post, this would be non-code-compliant because you would be 'over-fusing' the individual receptacle wiring in the device. I still have a problem with the solder-only, non-insulated connections. If something goes awry and the device's overcurrent protection device overheats, the solder will melt. You could end up with a hot wire make contact with a metal box... I'm assuming this device was part of a UL approved UPS. That's fine so long as it is in the original unit. Once the device is removed, it is not UL approved for the new application. The problem is that a DIY (again, no offence intended--I am one too) may use an inappropriate device box or mount the device unsafely, or over-fuse the device. And as far as legal liability, I'm not a lawyer, but if someone's house burnt down as a result of this device, I'm sure a lawyer would get lots of mileage out of OP if they had a way to find him/her. I'm sure the device is worth the asking price of 25$ just for the component parts, but if anyone does purchase this device, it should be used for just that--parts. Mr Fixit eh |
#32
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Yeah, you guys stop telling me what I can't do with my panel!
JohnL PE "Ignoramus21810" wrote in message ... On 23 Feb 2005 10:01:20 -0800, wrote: Ned Simmons wrote: But the the breakers in this "panel" are not qualified for branch circuit protection, so it doesn't qualify as a subpanel by any stretch of the imagination, and if it were wired permanently to a breaker larger than 20A would violate the NEC. Depending on its construction, it may or may not be legal if permanently wired to a 20A circuit. The safest bet is to use it as a good rugged power strip. Any reason this device couldn't be wired to a 30A electric clothes dryer pigtail and plugged into a 240V dryer receptacle, to provide 120V, 60A total to downstream devices? The receptacle would have to be all 4 proper conductors of course: 2 hots, neutral, and ground. Well, this device is not portable and is not for plugging into receptacles, it is for permanent wiring. If you build a steel enclosure for it, then it could be made portable, but it was not meant to be. http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/outlet-panel/ By the way, the device is sold. The individual 12 ga conductors on the device are protected by the onboard 20A breakers. If the breakers are not qualified for branch circuit protection, what are they qualified for Exactly. They are overcurrent protection devices. i |
#34
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"Ned Simmons" wrote in message ... I did in my first post... ******************************************** Igor: "That each outlet has its own breaker, is a feature similar to what a subpanel provides (protection for individual circuits). A power strip,at best, protects the entire strip. My response: "But the the breakers in this "panel" are not qualified for branch circuit protection, so it doesn't qualify as a subpanel by any stretch of the imagination, and if it were wired permanently to a breaker larger than 20A would violate the NEC. Depending on its construction, it may or may not be legal if permanently wired to a 20A circuit. The safest bet is to use it as a good rugged power strip." I quoted the NEC only because Igor asked for a specific provision of the NEC that supported my assertion that using his "panel" as he originally suggested would be a violation. Sorry - did not see that. I don't know how to help if your objection is that an individual post may be ambiguous after earlier posts have been snipped in follow-ups, and when taken out of the context of the entire thread. Nope - that's not my objection Ned. I had missed at least some of the replies in this thread. I read all that I saw, but obviously not all of them made it to me from my ISP. There seems to be only a couple or a few replies that I did not receive for some reason, so viewed in the context of what appeared to have been a complete discussion, your later comments did not make sense. At least now they do and I understand what you are trying to say. Thanks for hanging in there on this one. -- -Mike- |
#36
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In article , ignoramus21810
@NOSPAM.21810.invalid says... Now, a killer question. How come the breakers on the panel do not qualify as overcurrent protection devices under NEC. They are, after all, designed to interrupt the line if the current exceeds the rated amount. The whole issue of just how much current can be supplied to the panel, is depending on the answer to this question. It's a good question. I went through this a year ago when building a large industrial control panel. Usually when I do this sort of thing it's for a self contained piece of automation I've built, so this issue does not come up because the connections to the various devices are not "premises wiring" and do not constitute a branch circuit. In the case in question there were many pumps and fans powered by the panel spread around a large room, with their wiring mingled with the plant wiring. Even though you can buy a suitable CB for your home panel for a few dollars, and the miniature circuit breakers (MCBs) referenced in the article below are reasonably priced, the breakers approved for branch circuit protection and suitable for use in an industrial control enclosure start around $200/ea for a 3 phase device, and are physically very large. We ended up protecting the conductors leaving the cabinet with Class CC fuses, which are approved for the use. By the time you buy the fuses and a quality finger safe holder, they're more expensive than the MCBs. Here's a link to MCBs... http://www.eatonelectrical.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer? pagename=C-H/Common/AssetTemplateLink&c=Apubarticles&cid= 987090561951&Sec=products and the big molded case breakers... http://www.eatonelectrical.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer? pagename=C-H/Common/AssetTemplateLink&c=Apubarticles&cid= 1063683114821&Sec=products This article is a pretty good summary of the issue. If you want to google up more the key words are "supplementary protection", UL 489, and UL 1077. http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/02/Spring/deionno.html Ned Simmons |
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GOOD GOD ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH!!!!!!
ITS ****ING 6 RECEPTACLES PEOPLE, NOT THE DISCOVERY OF PLUTONIUM. |
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On 23 Feb 2005 18:06:25 -0800, "Matt" wrote:
GOOD GOD ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH!!!!!! ITS ****ING 6 RECEPTACLES PEOPLE, NOT THE DISCOVERY OF PLUTONIUM. Ha, ha, ha, ha.... Figured someone would break soon. :-P later, tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com |
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