Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Home Depot and Kmart had a ton of them. Walmart not so many.


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

the manufacturers are trying to figure out how to make them fail sooner
so you keep buying more.....

just think of it light sets that last forever? sales just STOP

currently there working on a tiny bomb to go off after a year or two to
discourage reuse. just part of the set will quit.......

buffalo ny: we are still running ours year-round outdoors. the 100
count = 1 watt/string!; in their third year, some sections have failed
and more of the blue ones have conked out than others. but an
impressive cost savings. if you are going for daytime decorations the
low wattage led's are not very visible. their cost has dropped from
$9.97 a string. but the wattage and brightness has increased last year
and even brighter this year. and the 70 count choices and others appear
to be selling out in the walmart superstore in nearby clarence ny as of
3am today. the white ones were sold out, but walmart is always
restocking nightly so don't give up on availability.
in white i think you will find them to be a very dependable indoor 24
hour decoration or night light usage around the house. if you should
have any conk out i have not seen the schematics for a string, but i
suspect in my case of the older the christmas assorted color string
that blue led's are a lower voltage so a shorter life.
see also ebay for the 21000 mcd keyring led light, delivered at under
$1.00 from hong kong.
if anyone has a link to the schematic please post it.
see wikipedia:
"LED-based Christmas lights have been available since 2002, but they
have yet to gain popularity and acceptance due to their higher initial
purchase cost when compared to similar incandescent-based Christmas
lights. For example, a set of 50 multi-colored incandescent Christmas
lights might cost $2.00 USD, while a similar set of 50 multi-colored
LED Christmas lights might cost $10.00 USD. Regardless of the higher
initial purchase price, the total cost of ownership for LED Christmas
lights would eventually be lower than the TCO for similar incandescent
Christmas lights since an LED requires less power to output the same
amount of light as a similar incandescent bulb."
quote and and plenty more reading at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

buffalobill wrote:
buffalo ny: we are still running ours year-round outdoors. the 100
count = 1 watt/string!; in their third year, some sections have failed
and more of the blue ones have conked out than others. but an
impressive cost savings. if you are going for daytime decorations the
low wattage led's are not very visible. their cost has dropped from
$9.97 a string. but the wattage and brightness has increased last year
and even brighter this year. and the 70 count choices and others appear
to be selling out in the walmart superstore in nearby clarence ny as of
3am today. the white ones were sold out, but walmart is always
restocking nightly so don't give up on availability.
in white i think you will find them to be a very dependable indoor 24
hour decoration or night light usage around the house. if you should
have any conk out i have not seen the schematics for a string, but i
suspect in my case of the older the christmas assorted color string
that blue led's are a lower voltage so a shorter life.
see also ebay for the 21000 mcd keyring led light, delivered at under
$1.00 from hong kong.
if anyone has a link to the schematic please post it.
see wikipedia:
"LED-based Christmas lights have been available since 2002, but they
have yet to gain popularity and acceptance due to their higher initial
purchase cost when compared to similar incandescent-based Christmas
lights. For example, a set of 50 multi-colored incandescent Christmas
lights might cost $2.00 USD, while a similar set of 50 multi-colored
LED Christmas lights might cost $10.00 USD. Regardless of the higher
initial purchase price, the total cost of ownership for LED Christmas
lights would eventually be lower than the TCO for similar incandescent
Christmas lights since an LED requires less power to output the same
amount of light as a similar incandescent bulb."
quote and and plenty more reading at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

The last couple of years I just bought a couple of the $2 strings from
wal-mart and threw them out at the end of the season. It worked out
cheaper than buying replacement bulbs and trying to keeps everything
working.

The LED strings in my area were not common and fairly expensive .

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

I did not have any problems finding them. They ran $6.00 for a 35
bulb string.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

Our local HD sold out, and I can understand why, much cooler & brighter

Home Depot and Kmart had a ton of them. Walmart not so many.

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple.
Anyone know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last
year. Were there other problems?

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:29:30 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?


I was at lowes, and saw they had more types this year. Because of
their price, you might see them on the shelves a little long than the
regular ones. Check'em out.

later,

tom @ www.FreeWorkAtHomeIdeas.com

Lowes and HD ran out of them, now they just have the regular bulbs in
stock....

Kram wrote:
Our local HD sold out, and I can understand why, much cooler & brighter

Home Depot and Kmart had a ton of them. Walmart not so many.

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple.
Anyone know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last
year. Were there other problems?

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:29:30 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

I had a few strings last year (most from Lowe's) in red, green, blue,
and yellow (the yellow didn't show up very well but the other colors
did). I bought a lot more this year (they didn't even have yellow).
Lowe's had them, and some Wal-Marts did (especially that really big
store they opened this year). The stores seem to be selling plenty of
them.

The local Lowe's still has 70-LED strings of the type that have been
discussed here, for some reason most of those are green.

I expect to use about 60% less electricity for holiday lights this
year.
--
18 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 08:56:45 -0600, Jim Rusling
wrote:

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

I did not have any problems finding them. They ran $6.00 for a 35
bulb string.

The 35-LED strings probably have internal fullwave rectifiers.
--
18 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 08:56:45 -0600, Jim Rusling
wrote:

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?
I did not have any problems finding them. They ran $6.00 for a 35
bulb string.

The 35-LED strings probably have internal fullwave rectifiers.
I wish they did have full wave
rectifiers. The ones I bought last year
didn't and
all I have seen in the store didn't
either. You can tell because they
"flicker"
quite a bit. I have added full wave
rectifiers to the ones I have. They get
brighter ..... yes I realize that could
shorten the life. But, they flicker
less and
look a whole lot better.

On 7 Dec 2006 10:35:31 -0800, wrote:

Lowes and HD ran out of them, now they just have the regular bulbs in
stock....


The Lowe's here still has plenty of LED Christmas lights.

Kram wrote:
Our local HD sold out, and I can understand why, much cooler & brighter

Home Depot and Kmart had a ton of them. Walmart not so many.

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple.
Anyone know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last
year. Were there other problems?
--
18 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

My wife and I bought a few strands from Lowes (in Grand Rapids, MI)
just a few days ago. They had a bunch in stock. We bought the Forever
Brite 70-light multicolored strands. They use a fraction of the
electricity, are brighter, more durable (solid plastic bulbs, no
sockets to corrode), cool to the touch, and are supposed to last 20
years (according to the box). Just like I've sworn off purchasing
incandescent light bulbs for all but the most unusual cases, I'm now
swearing off incandescent Christmas light sets (unless these give me
problems). They were $10 per strand.

-Chris Snyder

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:27:11 GMT, Art Todesco
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 08:56:45 -0600, Jim Rusling
wrote:

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?
I did not have any problems finding them. They ran $6.00 for a 35
bulb string.

The 35-LED strings probably have internal fullwave rectifiers.
I wish they did have full wave
rectifiers.


SOME strings have them. The first 35-LED string I bought didn't and
used one polarity only (actually lit less than half the time).

The ones I bought last year
didn't and
all I have seen in the store didn't
either. You can tell because they
"flicker"
quite a bit.

60Hz flicker is supposed to be too fast to be visible. Some people see
faster than others.
I have added full wave
rectifiers to the ones I have. They get
brighter ..... yes I realize that could
shorten the life. But, they flicker
less and
look a whole lot better.

The 120Hz you get by adding the rectifier will be brighter (if you get
the polarity right). The LEDs will PROBABLY be able to handle the
higher duty cycle. There should be little or no effect on lifetime
since you're not increasing the maximum current (actually decreasing
it a little because of the 1.4V drop across 2 diode junctions) and the
LEDs aren't generating much heat.

I've tested some LED strings and found 3 types:

1. 25-35 LEDs, works on one polarity only. Duty cycle less than 50%.
Apparently the type you got.

2. 60-70 LEDs, internally 2 series of 30-35 (as above), one series
uses each polarity. These will be flashing alternately on AC,
supposedly fast enough you don't see it.

3. 25-70 LEDs with fullwave rectifier. Works on both polarities, dim
on one polarity only.

I could tell which is which using a test device I made. This consisted
of a receptacle with the tab on the hot side removed and a 1N4003
diode connected across the screws, and another one done the same but
the diode going the other way. This gives 2 AC outlets and 2 pulsating
DC outlets (1 each polarity).

#1 strings would appear normal on one polarity, do nothing on the
other.

#2 strings would light only half the string. Which half depends on
what polarity.

#3 strings would light up dim on either polarity.
--
18 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

Tell us how many of the bulbs failed at the end of
the Christmas season. Last year, I bought a
package of nightlites (cycle a series of colors)
that I bought from Costco (not cheap). Out of 5
only the two that we kept still work.


Chris Snyder wrote:
My wife and I bought a few strands from Lowes (in Grand Rapids, MI)
just a few days ago. They had a bunch in stock. We bought the Forever
Brite 70-light multicolored strands. They use a fraction of the
electricity, are brighter, more durable (solid plastic bulbs, no
sockets to corrode), cool to the touch, and are supposed to last 20
years (according to the box). Just like I've sworn off purchasing
incandescent light bulbs for all but the most unusual cases, I'm now
swearing off incandescent Christmas light sets (unless these give me
problems). They were $10 per strand.

-Chris Snyder

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:38:51 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:45:29 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:29:30 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

I had a few strings last year (most from Lowe's) in red, green, blue,
and yellow (the yellow didn't show up very well but the other colors
did). I bought a lot more this year (they didn't even have yellow).
Lowe's had them, and some Wal-Marts did (especially that really big
store they opened this year). The stores seem to be selling plenty of
them.

The local Lowe's still has 70-LED strings of the type that have been
discussed here, for some reason most of those are green.

I expect to use about 60% less electricity for holiday lights this
year.


I'm planning to go get some on Dec 26 or 27 when they are 70% off.

A lot of the lights I use are bought then. Hope the ones you want
aren't sold out by then.

--
17 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On 7 Dec 2006 17:50:06 -0800, "Chris Snyder"
wrote:

My wife and I bought a few strands from Lowes (in Grand Rapids, MI)
just a few days ago. They had a bunch in stock. We bought the Forever
Brite 70-light multicolored strands. They use a fraction of the
electricity,

I had so many (very few LED) last year that it took 7 house circuits
to supply the power. I have 5 connected now, and would expect it to
work with 4. That eliminated the need to not use the microwave in the
evening.

are brighter,

Those are bright.

more durable (solid plastic bulbs,

And hopefully the colors don't fade and lose color as badly as the
incandescent ones do. I've had to replace too many of those
(incandescent's) that weren't burned out, but looked bad because bits
of the colored coating were missing.

)no
sockets to corrode, cool to the touch, and are supposed to last 20
years (according to the box). Just like I've sworn off purchasing
incandescent light bulbs for all but the most unusual cases, I'm now
swearing off incandescent Christmas light sets (unless these give me
problems).

I bought very few incandescent Christmas lights this year. Just a few
unusual ones that weren't available in LED versions yet.

They were $10 per strand.


The Lowe's ones are good. Also, some Wal-Mart stores have good ones.
Even LED icicle lights. More colored than white, which is a good
thing. I get tired of seeing those boring nearly-all-white displays
everywhere.

-Chris Snyder

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit
--
17 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 03:27:16 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:

Tell us how many of the bulbs failed at the end of
the Christmas season. Last year, I bought a
package of nightlites (cycle a series of colors)
that I bought from Costco (not cheap). Out of 5
only the two that we kept still work.


I put out about 90 strings of LED lights (most new) just after
Thanksgiving. 2 failed within 2 days. None have failed since then.

I started to look at one to see if I could tell what failed, but those
plastic bulges are very tough.


Chris Snyder wrote:
My wife and I bought a few strands from Lowes (in Grand Rapids, MI)
just a few days ago. They had a bunch in stock. We bought the Forever
Brite 70-light multicolored strands. They use a fraction of the
electricity, are brighter, more durable (solid plastic bulbs, no
sockets to corrode), cool to the touch, and are supposed to last 20
years (according to the box). Just like I've sworn off purchasing
incandescent light bulbs for all but the most unusual cases, I'm now
swearing off incandescent Christmas light sets (unless these give me
problems). They were $10 per strand.

-Chris Snyder

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

--
17 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

Mark Lloyd wrote:
And hopefully the colors don't fade and lose color as badly as the
incandescent ones do. I've had to replace too many of those
(incandescent's) that weren't burned out, but looked bad because bits
of the colored coating were missing.

That won't happen with LEDs. The LED bulbs project a very specific
color, specific to what element is in the chips producing the light.
The coloring of the plastic reflectors is for reasons unrelated to
light output: consumers expect it, and to be able to identify the color
of the bulbs when the strand isn't plugged in.

-Chris

On 8 Dec 2006 10:42:09 -0800, "Chris Snyder"
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:
And hopefully the colors don't fade and lose color as badly as the
incandescent ones do. I've had to replace too many of those
(incandescent's) that weren't burned out, but looked bad because bits
of the colored coating were missing.

That won't happen with LEDs. The LED bulbs project a very specific
color, specific to what element is in the chips producing the light.
The coloring of the plastic reflectors is for reasons unrelated to
light output: consumers expect it, and to be able to identify the color
of the bulbs when the strand isn't plugged in.

-Chris


Yes, LEDs are made for specific colors (and NOT white, which isn't a
single frequency).
--
16 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

In article , Joseph Meehan wrote:
Last year I saw a far number of LED Christmas lights. Not a great
number, but not uncommon. This year, I have only seen a couple. Anyone
know what happened. I would guess they did not sell well last year. Were
there other problems?

I noticed the Walgreens nearest me not having them even though they had
them in the past.

The only other place where I ever saw them for sale and where I have
been to so far recently is Target, which still has them as much as ever.

- Don Klipstein )

In article . com,
wrote:
the manufacturers are trying to figure out how to make them fail sooner
so you keep buying more.....

just think of it light sets that last forever? sales just STOP

currently there working on a tiny bomb to go off after a year or two to
discourage reuse. just part of the set will quit.......

And we'll buy from someone who does not timebomb them! Sales throughout
the entire industry will plummet once ones that don't have burnout
problems hit the market. However, manufacturers of ones that do not burn
out will have continued sales from population growth and from people who
add more lights every year and from replacement of units mangled by
children, pets, accidents and lost during moves. Smart consumers should
cause burnout-ones to be the ones whose sales drop to zero!

Remember "Forever Bright"? It appears to me they're still around, only
with their lights now having the Philips name! Whether or not the
Philips ones are actually what was made under the "Forever Bright"
brand, you can get those at Target!
And if Philips starts timebombing them (I expect they have too much to
lose in sales of other goods if they would stoop to doing that, so I
expect they won't), someone else will find a profit motive to sell
non-timebombed replacements!

- Don Klipstein )

In article . com,
buffalobill wrote in part:
buffalo ny: we are still running ours year-round outdoors. the 100
count = 1 watt/string!

Appears optimistic to me - usual practice is to give LEDs of the sizes
used at least .02 watt and as much as 1/8 watt apiece.
However, I don't dispute energy savings, since incandescent ones consume
a lot more than that!

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:27:11 GMT, Art Todesco
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 08:56:45 -0600, Jim Rusling
wrote:

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

The 35-LED strings probably have internal fullwave rectifiers.
I wish they did have full wave rectifiers.

SOME strings have them. The first 35-LED string I bought didn't and
used one polarity only (actually lit less than half the time).

The ones I bought last year didn't and all I have seen in the store
didn't either. You can tell because they "flicker" quite a bit.

60Hz flicker is supposed to be too fast to be visible. Some people see
faster than others.
I have added full wave rectifiers to the ones I have. They get
brighter ..... yes I realize that could shorten the life. But, they
flicker less and look a whole lot better.

The 120Hz you get by adding the rectifier will be brighter (if you get
the polarity right). The LEDs will PROBABLY be able to handle the
higher duty cycle. There should be little or no effect on lifetime
since you're not increasing the maximum current (actually decreasing
it a little because of the 1.4V drop across 2 diode junctions) and the
LEDs aren't generating much heat.

I would not count on that! I have seen a lot of LED products where the
LEDs are being run rather aggressively, close to or even in excess of the
ratings of the LEDs or usual ratings for such size LEDs.

At your own risk!

- Don Klipstein )

In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote:
Tell us how many of the bulbs failed at the end of
the Christmas season. Last year, I bought a
package of nightlites (cycle a series of colors)
that I bought from Costco (not cheap). Out of 5
only the two that we kept still work.

A nightlight with cycling colors has the added color-cycling circuitry,
which could be what failed. If a multicolor nightlight died in full, I
would not blame the LEDs.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 8 Dec 2006 10:42:09 -0800, "Chris Snyder"
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:
And hopefully the colors don't fade and lose color as badly as the
incandescent ones do. I've had to replace too many of those
(incandescent's) that weren't burned out, but looked bad because bits
of the colored coating were missing.

That won't happen with LEDs. The LED bulbs project a very specific
color, specific to what element is in the chips producing the light.
The coloring of the plastic reflectors is for reasons unrelated to
light output: consumers expect it, and to be able to identify the color
of the bulbs when the strand isn't plugged in.

-Chris

Yes, LEDs are made for specific colors (and NOT white, which isn't a
single frequency).

Well, they do make white LEDs and there are white LED holiday lights,
and some of those are called "winter white" due to the usual icy cool
color of most white LEDs.

In the usual white LED, the LED chip is a blue-emitting one coated with
a phosphor that absorbs some of the blue light and converts that to a
"broadband yellow" (mid-green through mid-red) fluorescence. The
combination of the phosphor's fluorescence and the portion of the LED
chip's blue light that passes through adds up to a white whose color
rendering index is usually 70 to 85.

- Don Klipstein )

In , wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 01:38:21 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:
the manufacturers are trying to figure out how to make them fail sooner
so you keep buying more.....

just think of it light sets that last forever? sales just STOP

currently there working on a tiny bomb to go off after a year or two to
discourage reuse. just part of the set will quit.......

And we'll buy from someone who does not timebomb them! Sales throughout
the entire industry will plummet once ones that don't have burnout
problems hit the market. However, manufacturers of ones that do not burn
out will have continued sales from population growth and from people who
add more lights every year and from replacement of units mangled by
children, pets, accidents and lost during moves. Smart consumers should
cause burnout-ones to be the ones whose sales drop to zero!

Remember "Forever Bright"? It appears to me they're still around, only
with their lights now having the Philips name! Whether or not the
Philips ones are actually what was made under the "Forever Bright"
brand, you can get those at Target!
And if Philips starts timebombing them (I expect they have too much to
lose in sales of other goods if they would stoop to doing that, so I
expect they won't), someone else will find a profit motive to sell
non-timebombed replacements!

- Don Klipstein )


Don, I doubt anyone thinks that much about a product that costs about
the same as a large coke from McDonalds.
Target had 100 lights for $1.89 before Christmas. If you go back there
the day after Christmas they are less than a buck. It is not worth
taking them off the tree you are throwing out. They are disposable.

I use a plastic tree. So I would rather not get disposable lights.

Heck, I have better use of my time than disassembling and reassembling a
Christmas tree every year! I stuff the darn thing into a closet and pull
it back out and fluff it back up every December! And I want the %$#*&^%#%
lights to work at that time and at the same time 4 years later!

What about lights used in heavy-usage displays where electricity
consumption may be considerable? Use an LED string instead of an
incandescent one and reduce power consumption by maybe 20 watts per
string for perhaps 400 hours per year (depending on the strings in
question) (assuming 12 hours/day for a bit over a month), in 10 years
that saves 40 KWH of electricity worth maybe $8-$9 based on average USA
"residential rate", maybe $11 in the metropolitan areas of Philadelphia,
NYC and Chicago.
OK, that does not sound to me like a rate of return quite as good as
that expectable from a decent stock index mutual fund, but I would add
some value to elimination of frustration with burnouts and buying
replacement strings and (for those who store the tree non-disassembled)
restringing the tree!

- Don Klipstein )

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 01:56:35 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 8 Dec 2006 10:42:09 -0800, "Chris Snyder"
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:
And hopefully the colors don't fade and lose color as badly as the
incandescent ones do. I've had to replace too many of those
(incandescent's) that weren't burned out, but looked bad because bits
of the colored coating were missing.

That won't happen with LEDs. The LED bulbs project a very specific
color, specific to what element is in the chips producing the light.
The coloring of the plastic reflectors is for reasons unrelated to
light output: consumers expect it, and to be able to identify the color
of the bulbs when the strand isn't plugged in.

-Chris

Yes, LEDs are made for specific colors (and NOT white, which isn't a
single frequency).

Well, they do make white LEDs and there are white LED holiday lights,
and some of those are called "winter white" due to the usual icy cool
color of most white LEDs.


The LEDs are actually blue, as you know.

In the usual white LED, the LED chip is a blue-emitting one coated with
a phosphor that absorbs some of the blue light and converts that to a
"broadband yellow" (mid-green through mid-red) fluorescence. The
combination of the phosphor's fluorescence and the portion of the LED
chip's blue light that passes through adds up to a white whose color
rendering index is usually 70 to 85.

- Don Klipstein )

BTW, I've seen 2 different "whites" in LED holiday lights. The
difference is obvious when you see them together. One is as you
describe, the other is somewhat between that and incandescent lights
in appearance.
--
15 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 01:56:35 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 8 Dec 2006 10:42:09 -0800, "Chris Snyder"
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:
And hopefully the colors don't fade and lose color as badly as the
incandescent ones do. I've had to replace too many of those
(incandescent's) that weren't burned out, but looked bad because bits
of the colored coating were missing.

That won't happen with LEDs. The LED bulbs project a very specific
color, specific to what element is in the chips producing the light.
The coloring of the plastic reflectors is for reasons unrelated to
light output: consumers expect it, and to be able to identify the color
of the bulbs when the strand isn't plugged in.

-Chris

Yes, LEDs are made for specific colors (and NOT white, which isn't a
single frequency).

Well, they do make white LEDs and there are white LED holiday lights,
and some of those are called "winter white" due to the usual icy cool
color of most white LEDs.


The LEDs are actually blue, as you know.

In the usual white LED, the LED chip is a blue-emitting one coated with
a phosphor that absorbs some of the blue light and converts that to a
"broadband yellow" (mid-green through mid-red) fluorescence. The
combination of the phosphor's fluorescence and the portion of the LED
chip's blue light that passes through adds up to a white whose color
rendering index is usually 70 to 85.

- Don Klipstein )

BTW, I've seen 2 different "whites" in LED holiday lights. The
difference is obvious when you see them together. One is as you
describe, the other is somewhat between that and incandescent lights
in appearance.

I suspect the latter is "warm white" version of "LED white", where
the phosphor dose is higher to make the overall color less bluish and more
yellowish. The overall color of that is often to typically a
yellowish-orangish white shade similar to that of many fluorescent lamps
of rated color temperature either 3000 or 3500 K.
Don't plan on anything of that ilk "sufficiently resembling
incandescent" in color unless you find sufficient sufficiently independent
reviews saying that is the case.
"Semi warm white" (my words) LEDs may do well, but my experience tells
me that mixing these with incandescents will make them look ugly in color
in side-by-side comparison with incandescents, especially when total light
is on the dime side and/or when the non-incandescent is the one to be
dimmer by any detectable margin.

Not that I discourage "warm white" LEDs and advancement thereof!

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:
In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote:
Tell us how many of the bulbs failed at the end of
the Christmas season. Last year, I bought a
package of nightlites (cycle a series of colors)
that I bought from Costco (not cheap). Out of 5
only the two that we kept still work.

A nightlight with cycling colors has the added color-cycling circuitry,
which could be what failed. If a multicolor nightlight died in full, I
would not blame the LEDs.

- Don Klipstein )
Possible. I recently bought a little key chain
light that stopped working after a short period.
Wouldn't work with new batteries. Putting power
directly to the led connectors wouldn't light it
either.

In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote:
Tell us how many of the bulbs failed at the end of
the Christmas season. Last year, I bought a
package of nightlites (cycle a series of colors)
that I bought from Costco (not cheap). Out of 5
only the two that we kept still work.

A nightlight with cycling colors has the added color-cycling circuitry,
which could be what failed. If a multicolor nightlight died in full, I
would not blame the LEDs.

- Don Klipstein )
Possible. I recently bought a little key chain
light that stopped working after a short period.
Wouldn't work with new batteries. Putting power
directly to the led connectors wouldn't light it
either.

Possibly you had a weaker-than-usual LED and/or a battery with less
internal resistance than usual and burned out the LED. LED keychain
lights usually don't have resistors or anything else besides the internal
resistance of the battery to limit the amount of current flowing through
the LED. Resistors (or other current limiting means) are normally
considered necessary with LEDs to keep them from drawing excessive current
and overheating.

Possibly the LED may have suffered static damage if the light was
exposed to static electricity. Many white and blue LEDs are
static-sensitive. However, in my experience so far, static-zapped white
and blue LEDs mostly work with some loss of light at full current or
moderate overcurrent, which is typical of keychain lights with fresh
batteries. Static-damaged white and blue LEDs typically have a complete
loss of light output when lower current (a few milliamps) is used.

- Don Klipstein )

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 17:38:18 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote:
Tell us how many of the bulbs failed at the end of
the Christmas season. Last year, I bought a
package of nightlites (cycle a series of colors)
that I bought from Costco (not cheap). Out of 5
only the two that we kept still work.

A nightlight with cycling colors has the added color-cycling circuitry,
which could be what failed. If a multicolor nightlight died in full, I
would not blame the LEDs.

- Don Klipstein )
Possible. I recently bought a little key chain
light that stopped working after a short period.
Wouldn't work with new batteries. Putting power
directly to the led connectors wouldn't light it
either.

Possibly you had a weaker-than-usual LED and/or a battery with less
internal resistance than usual and burned out the LED. LED keychain
lights usually don't have resistors or anything else besides the internal
resistance of the battery to limit the amount of current flowing through
the LED. Resistors (or other current limiting means) are normally
considered necessary with LEDs to keep them from drawing excessive current
and overheating.


I once had a little disposable LED light (I think it had 2 CR2032
cells inside). It had no resistor. Maybe it took advantage of the
internal resistance of the battery.

Possibly the LED may have suffered static damage if the light was
exposed to static electricity. Many white and blue LEDs are
static-sensitive. However, in my experience so far, static-zapped white
and blue LEDs mostly work with some loss of light at full current or
moderate overcurrent, which is typical of keychain lights with fresh
batteries. Static-damaged white and blue LEDs typically have a complete
loss of light output when lower current (a few milliamps) is used.

- Don Klipstein )
--
14 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 05:45:29 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 01:56:35 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 8 Dec 2006 10:42:09 -0800, "Chris Snyder"
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:
And hopefully the colors don't fade and lose color as badly as the
incandescent ones do. I've had to replace too many of those
(incandescent's) that weren't burned out, but looked bad because bits
of the colored coating were missing.

That won't happen with LEDs. The LED bulbs project a very specific
color, specific to what element is in the chips producing the light.
The coloring of the plastic reflectors is for reasons unrelated to
light output: consumers expect it, and to be able to identify the color
of the bulbs when the strand isn't plugged in.

-Chris

Yes, LEDs are made for specific colors (and NOT white, which isn't a
single frequency).

Well, they do make white LEDs and there are white LED holiday lights,
and some of those are called "winter white" due to the usual icy cool
color of most white LEDs.


The LEDs are actually blue, as you know.

In the usual white LED, the LED chip is a blue-emitting one coated with
a phosphor that absorbs some of the blue light and converts that to a
"broadband yellow" (mid-green through mid-red) fluorescence. The
combination of the phosphor's fluorescence and the portion of the LED
chip's blue light that passes through adds up to a white whose color
rendering index is usually 70 to 85.

- Don Klipstein )

BTW, I've seen 2 different "whites" in LED holiday lights. The
difference is obvious when you see them together. One is as you
describe, the other is somewhat between that and incandescent lights
in appearance.

I suspect the latter is "warm white" version of "LED white", where
the phosphor dose is higher to make the overall color less bluish and more
yellowish. The overall color of that is often to typically a
yellowish-orangish white shade similar to that of many fluorescent lamps
of rated color temperature either 3000 or 3500 K.
Don't plan on anything of that ilk "sufficiently resembling
incandescent" in color unless you find sufficient sufficiently independent
reviews saying that is the case.

This doesn't look very much like incandescent, just more so than the
other LED lights.

"Semi warm white" (my words) LEDs may do well, but my experience tells
me that mixing these with incandescents will make them look ugly in color
in side-by-side comparison with incandescents, especially when total light
is on the dime side and/or when the non-incandescent is the one to be
dimmer by any detectable margin.

Not that I discourage "warm white" LEDs and advancement thereof!

- Don Klipstein )
--
14 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

wrote in
:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 01:38:21 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:
the manufacturers are trying to figure out how to make them fail
sooner so you keep buying more.....

just think of it light sets that last forever? sales just STOP

currently there working on a tiny bomb to go off after a year or two
to discourage reuse. just part of the set will quit.......

And we'll buy from someone who does not timebomb them! Sales
throughout
the entire industry will plummet once ones that don't have burnout
problems hit the market. However, manufacturers of ones that do not
burn out will have continued sales from population growth and from
people who add more lights every year and from replacement of units
mangled by children, pets, accidents and lost during moves. Smart
consumers should cause burnout-ones to be the ones whose sales drop to
zero!

Remember "Forever Bright"? It appears to me they're still around,
only
with their lights now having the Philips name! Whether or not the
Philips ones are actually what was made under the "Forever Bright"
brand, you can get those at Target!
And if Philips starts timebombing them (I expect they have too much
to
lose in sales of other goods if they would stoop to doing that, so I
expect they won't), someone else will find a profit motive to sell
non-timebombed replacements!

- Don Klipstein )


Don, I doubt anyone thinks that much about a product that costs about
the same as a large coke from McDonalds.
Target had 100 lights for $1.89 before Christmas. If you go back there
the day after Christmas they are less than a buck. It is not worth
taking them off the tree you are throwing out. They are disposable.

Many locales "recycle" Xmas trees by shredding them and using them as
mulch.(real pine trees,not artificials)

So,leaving your Xmas lights on them either aborts that recycling or
contaminates it with non-degradable matal and plastic bits.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

(Don Klipstein) wrote in
:

In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote:
Tell us how many of the bulbs failed at the end of
the Christmas season. Last year, I bought a
package of nightlites (cycle a series of colors)
that I bought from Costco (not cheap). Out of 5
only the two that we kept still work.

A nightlight with cycling colors has the added color-cycling circuitry,
which could be what failed. If a multicolor nightlight died in full, I
would not blame the LEDs.

- Don Klipstein )


Maybe be an interesting salvage project! (just for fun.)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net