Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that
electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a
doorway ? Thanks for your help.

In article . com, "Teo2006" wrote:
Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that
electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a
doorway ? Thanks for your help.

Yes, there is. The NEC requires that no point on a wall be more than 6 feet
from an outlet, measured along the wall. This means, in effect, that there
must be an outlet within 6 feet of any doorway, and not less than every twelve
feet thereafter. This does not apply to closets, hallways, or staircases, or
to walls less than 24 inches long -- and there are more stringent requirements
for kitchens. Consult the Code for all the gory details if you wish, but
that's the essence of it.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Teo2006 wrote:
Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that
electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a
doorway ? Thanks for your help.

I have an outlet beside a door. Wait a minute ... make that 2 outlets
beside doors. Oh, no ... make that three ... there's the one on the
back deck by the sliding door. No code up here that says there's a
required minimum distance.

In article . com, "bowgus" wrote:

Teo2006 wrote:
Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that
electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a
doorway ? Thanks for your help.

I have an outlet beside a door. Wait a minute ... make that 2 outlets
beside doors. Oh, no ... make that three ... there's the one on the
back deck by the sliding door. No code up here that says there's a
required minimum distance.

No, but there *is* a maximum distance, and I think that's what the OP was
asking about.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I have ADDED outlets by doors for convenience using things like vacuums
and floor scribbers.

On 27 Nov 2006 16:37:58 -0800, "
wrote:

I have ADDED outlets by doors for convenience using things like vacuums
and floor scribbers.

How about switch-height outlets? They're easier to reach.
--
28 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On 27 Nov 2006 16:37:58 -0800, "
wrote:

I have ADDED outlets by doors for convenience using things like vacuums
and floor scribbers.

I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a
scribbers?

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a
scribbers?
.."

typo floor scrubber, for like cleaning carpet.

i hate having to move furniture to plug something in

wrote:
I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a
scribbers?
."

typo floor scrubber, for like cleaning carpet.

i hate having to move furniture to plug something in

Same here. Kicking myself for putting all my outlets down by the floor
when I rewired.

Harry K

I just added a circuit and put a new outlet in my outdoor storage
closet. I put the outlet near the door. I thought about putting it
close to the floor to give any cords used outside less distance to
travel. I thought twice and put it between chest and waist height for
convenience.

On Nov 27, 9:38 pm, "Harry K" wrote:
wrote:
I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a
scribbers?
."

typo floor scrubber, for like cleaning carpet.

i hate having to move furniture to plug something inSame here. Kicking myself for putting all my outlets down by the floor
when I rewired.

Harry K

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:30:29 -0800, Oren wrote:

On 27 Nov 2006 16:37:58 -0800, "
wrote:

I have ADDED outlets by doors for convenience using things like vacuums
and floor scribbers.

I can pull a cord through a doorway and plug into an outlet. What is a
scribbers?

Misspelled scribblers.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:56:54 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article . com, "Teo2006" wrote:
Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that
electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a
doorway ? Thanks for your help.

Yes, there is. The NEC requires that no point on a wall be more than 6 feet
from an outlet, measured along the wall. This means, in effect, that there
must be an outlet within 6 feet of any doorway, and not less than every twelve
feet thereafter. This does not apply to closets, hallways, or staircases, or
to walls less than 24 inches long -- and there are more stringent requirements
for kitchens. Consult the Code for all the gory details if you wish, but
that's the essence of it.

Just curious. I dont have a code book handy. Is this just for
residential homes and businesses? What about barns and garages?
I was just wiring my barn and I am not even close to this. For
example, I DONT put outlets in animal stalls. Thats dangerous to them
(even though I use GFIs), but there is no reason to have a outlet in
there. Animals dont need outlets for their microwave ovens lol

In all honesty, where I live, no one is going to care how many outlets
I have, but I am just curious.

Mark

In article , wrote:
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:56:54 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article . com, "Teo2006"
wrote:
Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that
electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a
doorway ? Thanks for your help.

Yes, there is. The NEC requires that no point on a wall be more than 6 feet
from an outlet, measured along the wall. This means, in effect, that there
must be an outlet within 6 feet of any doorway, and not less than every twelve
feet thereafter. This does not apply to closets, hallways, or staircases, or
to walls less than 24 inches long -- and there are more stringent requirements
for kitchens. Consult the Code for all the gory details if you wish, but
that's the essence of it.

Just curious. I dont have a code book handy. Is this just for
residential homes and businesses? What about barns and garages?

Homes. Not barns. Not garages. Don't know about commercial installations.

[snip]
In all honesty, where I live, no one is going to care how many outlets
I have, but I am just curious.

Then do as I suggested: consult the Code for details.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 27 Nov 2006 15:43:46 -0800, "Teo2006" wrote:

Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that
electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a
doorway ? Thanks for your help.

Not specifically, in the NEC. The only spacing requirement
is that, for any point at the base of any wall more than 23"
wide, there must be an outlet within 6' that you can get to
without crossing a doorway.

That ends UP meaning that there has to be an outlet within
6 feet of the door, unless there are other doors breaking
up the wall. You could easily, for instance, design
a mudroom/entry with three doors, a closet, and a stairway
leading off in various directions such that there's no
place you're required to have an outlet.

But you ought to have one anyway. Put it in the same box
as a light switch if you have to.

An electrical outlet directly below the switch (usually found by a
door)
can be a nice place to plug in a night light. It's where you need one,
and being below the switch makes it less likely to be blocked.

Not specifically, in the NEC. The only spacing requirement
is that, for any point at the base of any wall more than 23"
wide, there must be an outlet within 6' that you can get to
without crossing a doorway.

That ends UP meaning that there has to be an outlet within
6 feet of the door, unless there are other doors breaking
up the wall. You could easily, for instance, design
a mudroom/entry with three doors, a closet, and a stairway
leading off in various directions such that there's no
place you're required to have an outlet.

But you ought to have one anyway. Put it in the same box
as a light switch if you have to.

It is worth remembering that the point of these NEC requirements is to
discourage the use of extension cords.

Just a few decades ago, many extension cords were of the cheap, crummy
"zip cord" type, thin 18 g. wires, thin insulation with plastic
multi-outlet receptacles on the end. The were easily overloaded and
started many fires even though they carried the UL seal of approval.

Also... In addition to overloads, these cords were easily damaged by
kids, chewed on by pets, smashed by furniture, and tread on by being
placed under carpets.

For those of you who are old enough to notice, you can't buy these
cheap extension cords new anymore. New extension cords are all of a
miniumum thickness and conductor size. Still, it is desirable not to
have to use an extension cord, if possible, and avoid having to use
one in a permanent situation at all costs.

If you have a new home, the reason your kitchen counter is full of
electrical outlets is that the authorities absolutely don't want you
using an extension cord to plug in a deep fryer or your George Foreman
electric grill. Notice also that these days, all of these appliances
come with short cords (about 2 feet or so) which are intended to be
used with this bountiful multiplicity of kitchen outlets.

Beachcomber

Beachcomber wrote:
It is worth remembering that the point of these NEC requirements is to
discourage the use of extension cords.

Just a few decades ago, many extension cords were of the cheap, crummy
"zip cord" type, thin 18 g. wires, thin insulation with plastic
multi-outlet receptacles on the end. The were easily overloaded and
started many fires even though they carried the UL seal of approval.

Also... In addition to overloads, these cords were easily damaged by
kids, chewed on by pets, smashed by furniture, and tread on by being
placed under carpets.

For those of you who are old enough to notice, you can't buy these
cheap extension cords new anymore. New extension cords are all of a
miniumum thickness and conductor size. Still, it is desirable not to
have to use an extension cord, if possible, and avoid having to use
one in a permanent situation at all costs.

BC:

Well, the wires may be bigger, but inexpensive extension cords are
still
made from zip cord, which can still be pet-chewed and door-
smashed. Any flexible cord trailing across a floor or under a carpet,
whether zip cord or SO cable, is more in harm's way than permanent
wiring
would be (though you'd have to work fairly hard on the SO cable (: ) so
I
guess the objection still stands. Anyway a big mess of extension cords
looks like heck.

Cordially yours:
G P

On 28 Nov 2006 10:07:11 -0800, wrote:

An electrical outlet directly below the switch (usually found by a
door)
can be a nice place to plug in a night light. It's where you need one,
and being below the switch makes it less likely to be blocked.

A good place for one.
--
27 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:21:32 -0500, Goedjn wrote:

On 27 Nov 2006 15:43:46 -0800, "Teo2006" wrote:

Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that
electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a
doorway ? Thanks for your help.

Not specifically, in the NEC. The only spacing requirement
is that, for any point at the base of any wall more than 23"
wide, there must be an outlet within 6' that you can get to
without crossing a doorway.

That ends UP meaning that there has to be an outlet within
6 feet of the door, unless there are other doors breaking
up the wall. You could easily, for instance, design
a mudroom/entry with three doors, a closet, and a stairway
leading off in various directions such that there's no
place you're required to have an outlet.

But you ought to have one anyway. Put it in the same box
as a light switch if you have to.

I have one like that. It's often in exactly the right place for an
outlet.
--
27 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

No, but there *is* a maximum distance, and I think that's what the OP was
asking about.

Maximum distance? Don't think so. There's the so many outlets on a wall
.... nothing to do with doorways. Well, probably against code to install
an outlet in a doorway.

In article . com, "bowgus" wrote:

No, but there *is* a maximum distance, and I think that's what the OP was
asking about.

Maximum distance? Don't think so.

Then you think wrongly.

There's the so many outlets on a wall
.... nothing to do with doorways.

You're misinformed, or uninformed.

"Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along
the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8m (6ft) from a receptacle
outlet. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following: any
space 600mm (2ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners)
and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar
openings. ..." [2005 NEC, Article 210.52 (A)]

In other words ... a "wall space" begins at a doorway. To comply with this
article, the maximum distance an outlet may be from a doorway is six feet;
otherwise, there would necessarily be some point within that "wall space" more
than six feet from an outlet.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Geez ... you left out the 36" rule. Ok, so I have 2 doorway 36" apart
:-) But yer right about that 6' rule.

In article .com, "bowgus" wrote:

Geez ... you left out the 36" rule.

*What* 36" rule?

Ok, so I have 2 doorway 36" apart

Then there should be an outlet between them.

:-) But yer right about that 6' rule.

Yep.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:48:35 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , wrote:
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:56:54 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article . com, "Teo2006"
wrote:
Can any one tell me if there is a code requirement specifying that
electrical outlets must be placed within X number of feet next of a
doorway ? Thanks for your help.

Yes, there is. The NEC requires that no point on a wall be more than 6 feet
from an outlet, measured along the wall. This means, in effect, that there
must be an outlet within 6 feet of any doorway, and not less than every twelve
feet thereafter. This does not apply to closets, hallways, or staircases, or
to walls less than 24 inches long -- and there are more stringent requirements
for kitchens. Consult the Code for all the gory details if you wish, but
that's the essence of it.

Just curious. I dont have a code book handy. Is this just for
residential homes and businesses? What about barns and garages?

Homes. Not barns. Not garages. Don't know about commercial installations.


OK, thats what I wanted to know. I suspected this was only homes but
was not sure. This barn is 18ft X 40ft. and I only have 2 outlets in
the actual barn, because thats where the animals go. But I do have
one on the front wall and one on the back wall in case I need them.
Both are GFI, and the romex is run thru steel conduit up to 8 feet on
the walls, so animals cant chew the wires. (Some horses are notorious
for this). At the same time, I have a small feed room built on the
back of this barn, which is "my space". I have 4 outlets inside that
tiny 7ft X 10ft room. But you know how that goes, radio, tv, power
tools, electric fencer, grain mixer, electric space heater (in
winter), and more. Heck, I might need another outlet soon....

Thanks

[snip]
In all honesty, where I live, no one is going to care how many outlets
I have, but I am just curious.

Then do as I suggested: consult the Code for details.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article .com, "bowgus" wrote:

Geez ... you left out the 36" rule.

*What* 36" rule?

Ok, so I have 2 doorway 36" apart

Then there should be an outlet between them.

:-) But yer right about that 6' rule.

Yep.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Yep and the 6ft rule is way over what should be required. When I did
my 18x30 addition I figured that was enough and spaced them every 6 or
8 ft (don't recall now) with the first at each side of any door - it
wasn't enough.

Going strictly by the 6ft rule it is possible to have just one outlet
on a 12ft wall.

Harry K

In article . com, "Harry K" wrote:

Going strictly by the 6ft rule it is possible to have just one outlet
on a 12ft wall.

No, it's not -- unless there's a doorway at each end of it. The Code
specifically states "including space measured around corners".

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:33:46 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article . com, "bowgus" wrote:

No, but there *is* a maximum distance, and I think that's what the OP was
asking about.

Maximum distance? Don't think so.

Then you think wrongly.

There's the so many outlets on a wall
.... nothing to do with doorways.

You're misinformed, or uninformed.

"Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along
the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8m (6ft) from a receptacle
outlet. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following: any
space 600mm (2ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners)
and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar
openings. ..." [2005 NEC, Article 210.52 (A)]

In other words ... a "wall space" begins at a doorway. To comply with this
article, the maximum distance an outlet may be from a doorway is six feet;
otherwise, there would necessarily be some point within that "wall space" more
than six feet from an outlet.

Except that it is possible to construct an area where there
IS no wall space within several feet of the door.
Take for example, the badly designed rear entryway shown
at www.goedjn.com/sketch/noplug.gif

As long as the wall segments marked with red dots
are less than 24" long, there is noplace in the
entryway where you are required to have a convenience
outlet.

--Goedjn

*What* 36" rule?

24" in the US, 36" in Canada ... guess we have longer arms ... or
something ... up here.

What is the 36'' rule ? Does it apply to USA ? I know the 6ft rule.
I thought an outlet had to be located no more than 3 feet from either
side of a door ? Or not ?
bowgus wrote:
*What* 36" rule?

24" in the US, 36" in Canada ... guess we have longer arms ... or
something ... up here.

On 29 Nov 2006 17:55:36 -0800, "Teo2006" wrote:

What is the 36'' rule ? Does it apply to USA ? I know the 6ft rule.
I thought an outlet had to be located no more than 3 feet from either
side of a door ? Or not ?
bowgus wrote:

There is no placement rule for outlets that specifically mentions
doors. Although I think there is one for light switches
along the primary entry/exit path.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, "Harry K" wrote:

Going strictly by the 6ft rule it is possible to have just one outlet
on a 12ft wall.

No, it's not -- unless there's a doorway at each end of it. The Code
specifically states "including space measured around corners".

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Yes it is. My addition is 18x30 with entrance in the middle of the
30'. Thus I could put one outlet 6' from that door and another down in
the corner...well yes, you are right, I would have 2 in 15 ft. But it
isn't hard to come up with a floor plan that would allow it, for
example just shifting my entrance over a bit.

Harry K

Remember the NEC is about SAFETY.

Convenience is another matter altogether

In article , Goedjn wrote:
On 29 Nov 2006 17:55:36 -0800, "Teo2006" wrote:

What is the 36'' rule ? Does it apply to USA ? I know the 6ft rule.
I thought an outlet had to be located no more than 3 feet from either
side of a door ? Or not ?
bowgus wrote:

There is no placement rule for outlets that specifically mentions
doors.

Yes, there is. NEC 210.52(A)(1) defines required outlet placement within a
"wall space", and 210.52(A)(2)(1) explicitly states that "wall spaces" are
delimited by doorways and other similar openings.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

Yes, there is. NEC 210.52(A)(1) defines required outlet placement within a
"wall space", and 210.52(A)(2)(1) explicitly states that "wall spaces" are
delimited by doorways and other similar openings.

Also, according to Knight (and the CEC) you also count the space
occupied by the door itself when fully open as part of the doorway.

So you can put an outlet 6' from the edge of the door (nearly 9' from
the doorway proper and still be code compliant.

Chris

In article , Chris Friesen wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Yes, there is. NEC 210.52(A)(1) defines required outlet placement within a
"wall space", and 210.52(A)(2)(1) explicitly states that "wall spaces" are
delimited by doorways and other similar openings.

Also, according to Knight (and the CEC) you also count the space
occupied by the door itself when fully open as part of the doorway.

So you can put an outlet 6' from the edge of the door (nearly 9' from
the doorway proper and still be code compliant.

That does not appear to be the case with the U.S. NEC, however.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.