For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for a
junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number of
wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street, my
friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians don't
trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them because
they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great, strip the wire,
push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.

fast but can flake out over time If they are in and working I would
just remember where they are. someday when something quits check its
likely the cause.

I have some here that never caused a problem although one flaked about
a year ago......

better are the push in wires tighten screws, they are really dependable

There's something to be said for twisting wires together, then feeling how
tight and secure they are under a wire nut. Only time will tell how well
these new devices hold up. There are certainly enough problems with spring
clips in outlets and switches becoming loose


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for
a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number
of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street,
my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians
don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them
because they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great, strip
the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.

wrote in message
oups.com...
fast but can flake out over time If they are in and working I would
just remember where they are. someday when something quits check its
likely the cause.

I have some here that never caused a problem although one flaked about
a year ago......

You're not talking about the stab-loc connectors on outlets and switches are
you? For those I've heard plenty of people complain that those are fire
hazards. For switches and outlets the screw down type you mentioned below
are definitely recommended over stab-loc.

I'm talking about these things
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/28249/612

Just so that we're on the same page and all that.

better are the push in wires tighten screws, they are really dependable

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:19:58 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for a
junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number of
wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street, my
friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians don't
trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them because
they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great, strip the wire,
push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.


I agree with the old-timer and tighten with the screw. I have had push
in connections. I think they have failed most often in my case, where
the wife use to plug a vacuum in regularly.

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for
a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number
of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street,
my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians
don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them
because they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great, strip
the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.

I suspect they're okay for the terminal junction.

But look how they work. Like an alligator clamp.

If several outlets are daisy-chained, the final current draw on the first
plug-in may be significant - and greater than the miniscule contact area can
handle. This results in charring, overheating, and (if you're lucky) loss of
connectivity.

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:30:17 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
fast but can flake out over time If they are in and working I would
just remember where they are. someday when something quits check its
likely the cause.

I have some here that never caused a problem although one flaked about
a year ago......

You're not talking about the stab-loc connectors on outlets and switches are
you? For those I've heard plenty of people complain that those are fire
hazards. For switches and outlets the screw down type you mentioned below
are definitely recommended over stab-loc.

I'm talking about these things
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/28249/612

Just so that we're on the same page and all that.

I missed your key word(s) - "junctin box".
--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

RBM wrote:
There's something to be said for twisting wires together, then feeling how
tight and secure they are under a wire nut.

.... as long as you don't twist them before you put the wire nut on ...

Only time will tell how well
these new devices hold up. There are certainly enough problems with spring
clips in outlets and switches becoming loose


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for
a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number
of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street,
my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians
don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them
because they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great, strip
the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.






--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

I'm talking about these things
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/28249/612

Just so that we're on the same page and all that.

I bought a card of them a couple years ago, but have never had the nerve to
use them.
I suppose the worst thing that can happen is that a wire falls out, and then
you just have an open circuit.

ESPECIALLY, when you twist them first!!!


"CJT" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
There's something to be said for twisting wires together, then feeling
how tight and secure they are under a wire nut.

... as long as you don't twist them before you put the wire nut on ...

Only time will tell how well
these new devices hold up. There are certainly enough problems with
spring clips in outlets and switches becoming loose


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for
a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number
of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street,
my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians
don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them
because they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great,
strip the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.






--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Eigenvector wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

fast but can flake out over time If they are in and working I would
just remember where they are. someday when something quits check its
likely the cause.

I have some here that never caused a problem although one flaked about
a year ago......


You're not talking about the stab-loc connectors on outlets and switches are
you? For those I've heard plenty of people complain that those are fire
hazards. For switches and outlets the screw down type you mentioned below
are definitely recommended over stab-loc.

I'm talking about these things
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/28249/612

Just so that we're on the same page and all that.

I believe that one of the major fire alarm suppliers uses those, or
something very similar to them, for low voltage connections having to do
with auxiliary relays for a duct detector. So apparently they can be
reliable, at least reliable enough to be UL listed for fire alarm use.

That said, I do trust a good old fashioned terminal strip with screws on
it a lot more. I also never use the push in connectors on a receptacle,
heard enough stories about those...

nate


--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

You're not talking about the stab-loc connectors on outlets and switches
are you? For those I've heard plenty of people complain that those are
fire hazards. For switches and outlets the screw down type you mentioned
below are definitely recommended over stab-loc.

What do you call the "stab in & screw down" type termination on switches and
outlets? Has the speed of stablock and the reliability of a clamped down
connection.

I'm talking about these things
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/28249/612

Just so that we're on the same page and all that.

How does this work???

What I'd like to see are fixtures that don't require a box... Strip the
wire, lay it in a channel in the back of the fixture, screw it down tight,
repeat for other wires, flip over the wire channel cover.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for
a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number
of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street,
my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians
don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them
because they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great,
strip the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.

I suspect they're okay for the terminal junction.

But look how they work. Like an alligator clamp.

If several outlets are daisy-chained, the final current draw on the first
plug-in may be significant - and greater than the miniscule contact area
can handle. This results in charring, overheating, and (if you're lucky)
loss of connectivity.
I've never seen how they're constructed internally, so I can't say anything
for sure. But it seems like losses in a circuit due to bad connections
would be measurable and testable.

I know I have seen a lot of wire nut connections that seemed firm - until
the wire is twisted as it's being pushed back into the box. That's one of
the bigger advantages over wire nuts that I saw there - unlike a wire nut,
the push in connector has all the wires in a line and easily routed out of
the way back in the junction box.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for
a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number
of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street,
my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians
don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them
because they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great, strip
the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.


I'm working on a Hospital, the electricians are using them. I never seen
them before, they have a onsite inspector not very lenient. Myself not being
an electrician, I'll stick to wire nuts & screws

It is imperative the wires be twisted before the wire nut is applied.

--
Steve Barker



"CJT" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
There's something to be said for twisting wires together, then feeling
how tight and secure they are under a wire nut.

... as long as you don't twist them before you put the wire nut on ...

Only time will tell how well
these new devices hold up. There are certainly enough problems with
spring clips in outlets and switches becoming loose


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for
a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number
of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street,
my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians
don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them
because they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great,
strip the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.






--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Some wire nut types do say twisting is not necessary, but I'm more confident
when I do twist them


"Steve Barker LT" wrote in message
...
It is imperative the wires be twisted before the wire nut is applied.

--
Steve Barker



"CJT" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
There's something to be said for twisting wires together, then feeling
how tight and secure they are under a wire nut.

... as long as you don't twist them before you put the wire nut on ...

Only time will tell how well
these new devices hold up. There are certainly enough problems with
spring clips in outlets and switches becoming loose


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors
for a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large
number of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the
street, my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer
electricians don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works
with love them because they make their job so much easier. I thought it
was great, strip the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into
place.






--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Steve Barker LT wrote:
It is imperative the wires be twisted before the wire nut is applied.


SB:

Not necessarily.

Read the instructions on the box -- I don't know of any decent,
UL-listed
and currently available brands which say pretwisting is necessary.
Actually, when wire connectors are used properly, the wires will twist
together internally, even if not pretwisted. (Follow the directions
that
come with the connectors or call the mfr. for details.)

While I do pretwist, especially
when connecting 4 or more wires, it's better not to pretwist than to
pretwist wrong. It's easy to end up with 1 wire almost straight and
several others wrapped barber-pole style around it. This is not proper
pretwisting.

Cordially yours:
G P

"Eigenvector"
But look how they work. Like an alligator clamp.

If several outlets are daisy-chained, the final current draw on the first
plug-in may be significant - and greater than the miniscule contact area
can handle. This results in charring, overheating, and (if you're lucky)
loss of connectivity.

I've never seen how they're constructed internally, so I can't say
anything for sure. But it seems like losses in a circuit due to bad
connections would be measurable and testable.

Go to HD and buy a cheapo outlet with push-in connectors ($0.39). Whack it
with a hammer.

Now you can see the miniature speed-nut that is the electrical connection.

Put 15 Amps through that teeny surface area and you've got molten brass.

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:19:58 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for a
junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number of
wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street, my
friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians don't
trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them because
they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great, strip the wire,
push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.


Purely option, of mine and asking others. The dislike I noticed comes
from bad results from 'backstabbing' receptacles and switches. So
these connectors have to overcome past dislike.

I don't like them because a tan wire nut will handle so many ranges of
wire combinations, and number of 14# wire (1-5).

Just my option, and my observations.

later,

tom @ www.NoCostAds.com

Sacramento Dave wrote:
"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for
a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number
of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street,
my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians
don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them
because they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great, strip
the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.



I'm working on a Hospital, the electricians are using them. I never seen
them before, they have a onsite inspector not very lenient. Myself not being
an electrician, I'll stick to wire nuts & screws

Yes, and 35 years ago the electricians
used aluminum wire with the "stab in"
outlets in my neighborhood. Many have
had electrical problems, even fires.
I was lucky. They started learning of
the problems. In my house, the still
used aluminum, but used the screws. I
have pigtailed copper to these and
have never had a problem. Houses built
a half a year later than mine, used
the special switches and outlets rated
for aluminum. Houses built a year or
2 later, didn't use aluminum for branch
circuits.

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:18:54 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Some wire nut types do say twisting is not necessary, but I'm more confident
when I do twist them


Some people seem to consider "not necessary" to mean "can't".


"Steve Barker LT" wrote in message
m...
It is imperative the wires be twisted before the wire nut is applied.

--
Steve Barker



"CJT" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
There's something to be said for twisting wires together, then feeling
how tight and secure they are under a wire nut.

... as long as you don't twist them before you put the wire nut on ...

Only time will tell how well
these new devices hold up. There are certainly enough problems with
spring clips in outlets and switches becoming loose


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors
for a junction box. They worked very well especially given the large
number of wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the
street, my friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer
electricians don't trust them, but that the journeymen that he works
with love them because they make their job so much easier. I thought it
was great, strip the wire, push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into
place.






--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .



--
42 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

According to Eigenvector :

I'm talking about these things
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/28249/612

I note that they're both UL and CSA approved.

I'll also note that push in terminals on outlets are also (still)
approved by UL and CSA, and all of the device connection failures
I've _ever_ seen were push-in. Most of them with aluminum wire
(where push-in has never been legal), but still, some were
copper.

When it comes right down to it, given the right tools[1]/workmanship
for installing on screw terminals or wirenuts, push-in doesn't really
save you much. And I _much_ prefer the higher clamp pressure and
solidity of a screw termination or a good solid wirenut.

For screw terminals my wire stripper has a strategically placed hole
that makes making a small loop at the wire end very easy. A pair of
needle nose pliers works in a pinch.

The proper set of linesman pliers makes quick work of doing the
twists for wirenuts. Some wirenuts are rated _without_ pretwisting.

Note that these devices aren't intended for stranded wire. Only
solid.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:19:58 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

For the re-wiring I did in my basement we used the push-in connectors for a
junction box. They worked very well especially given the large number of
wires we had to connect together. But what's the word on the street, my
friend who recommended them says that a lot of old-timer electricians don't
trust them, but that the journeymen that he works with love them because
they make their job so much easier. I thought it was great, strip the wire,
push the wire in the hole, wire's locked into place.


You might have the opportunity to use these push in terminals real
soon again. Once you burn down your house, you can do it all over
again.......... and again ............ and again...................

Steve Barker LT wrote:
It is imperative the wires be twisted before the wire nut is applied.

Not if you want the strongest possible connection.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

You might have the opportunity to use these push in terminals real
soon again. Once you burn down your house, you can do it all over
again.......... and again ............ and again...................



I just used them in a junction box for my bathroom remodeling
project...seemed very secure and i liked the fact that they wires were
easy to tuck back into the box.

I did dissect one of them and it seems it is beefier and more secure
than a stab-lock fixture might be...there is a hump that the wire has
to ride over which increases the contact with the "fingers"

I bought a halo new construction lighting can to go over my shower
(with a shower trim, of course) and when I opened the J-Box on the can
lo and behold...push in wire terminals.

I do like the fact these have a port on them for checking continuity.

I dont forsee an immediate problem with these connectors...

funny story when i was learning house wiring in electronics I had a
teacher who would yank the wirenuts on our connections VERY hard..and
if ONE nut gave..he cut all the wires and said "DO OVER".

Now in my home wiring I am just about as anal about tight
conenctions...I tighten those damn nuts up so tight that a few times
the plastic has seperated from the cone...these are Buchannan wire nuts
I am talking about here...

Well I did the same "Yank Test" on these push on connectors and those
damn things didnt budge...irregardless if it was 12 or 14 guage wire.

I feel pretty confident using them..

Josh



You might have the opportunity to use these push in terminals real
soon again. Once you burn down your house, you can do it all over
again.......... and again ............ and again...................

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to Eigenvector :

I'm talking about these things
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/28249/612

I note that they're both UL and CSA approved.

I'll also note that push in terminals on outlets are also (still)
approved by UL and CSA, and all of the device connection failures
I've _ever_ seen were push-in. Most of them with aluminum wire
(where push-in has never been legal), but still, some were
copper.

When it comes right down to it, given the right tools[1]/workmanship
for installing on screw terminals or wirenuts, push-in doesn't really
save you much. And I _much_ prefer the higher clamp pressure and
solidity of a screw termination or a good solid wirenut.

For screw terminals my wire stripper has a strategically placed hole
that makes making a small loop at the wire end very easy. A pair of
needle nose pliers works in a pinch.

The proper set of linesman pliers makes quick work of doing the
twists for wirenuts. Some wirenuts are rated _without_ pretwisting.

Note that these devices aren't intended for stranded wire. Only
solid.
--
Chris Lewis,

I guess in asking I wanted to make sure I wasn't turning my house into the
next "aluminum wire back stab connector" of the next century. I don't know
the history of aluminum wire or back stab connectors but it seems like they
probably received the same approval before everyone found out just how bad
they were.


Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Steve Barker LT posted for all of us...


It is imperative the wires be twisted before the wire nut is applied.

--
Steve Barker

HMMM, not all manufacturers list them that way; so it can't be imperative....
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

In article ,
Steve Barker LT wrote:
It is imperative the wires be twisted before the wire nut is applied.

--
Steve Barker


Not always, it depends on the design of the wire nut.

Here is a brief excerpt from an Ideal Industries wep page. They are
one of the oldest and biggest manufactures of wire nuts (I believe
they have the trade mark on the name)

from http://www.idealindustries.com/wt/Tw...Connectors.nsf

* Five Color-coded models accept from #22 to #8 AWG wire
* Fixed, Square-wire spring
* No pre-twisting required
* UL Listed and CSA Certified
* Reusable
* Shell rated for 105° C
* Flame-retardant polypropelene shell


--
Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor.
--Benjamin Franklin
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

Eigenvector posted for all of us...

I don't know
the history of much because I don't do ANY research

Eigen lost his vector I couldn't have said it better myself.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

In article , CJT wrote:
RBM wrote:
There's something to be said for twisting wires together, then feeling how
tight and secure they are under a wire nut.

... as long as you don't twist them before you put the wire nut on ...


But a few posts later, someone said that it's *imperative*
that you *do* twist the wires *before* inserting into
the wire-nut.

PLEASE -- which is correct?

(And why?)


Thanks!

David

"David Combs" wrote in message
...
In article , CJT
wrote:
RBM wrote:
There's something to be said for twisting wires together, then feeling
how
tight and secure they are under a wire nut.

... as long as you don't twist them before you put the wire nut on ...


But a few posts later, someone said that it's *imperative*
that you *do* twist the wires *before* inserting into
the wire-nut.

PLEASE -- which is correct?

(And why?)


Thanks!

David



Do not twist the wires before you put the wire in the wire nut according to
code and do not use the push in terminals on the plug and when you put the
wire on the screw wrap it around the screw and pinch the wires tight
together....