I bought an old, 2-1/2-story, semi-detached home a while back as-is. It has
old wiring throughout and, due to the way it is constructed, rewiring the
entire house will not be easy (mostly because the side. front, and back
walls are all masonry). It now has 100-amp service with circuit breakers.

Here's what I am trying to figure out. Should I have the entire house
rewired now (including a new service panel, etc), or should I start out by
just having the new service panel put in (probably will be 200-amp service)
and then worry about rewiring rooms etc. later on? I do know that I will
need a permit either way.

If I have the entire house rewired, an electrician I had look at the house
said that means the whole house will have to be brought up to all of the
current codes (outlets every so many feet in the kitchen, outlets every so
many feet in bedrooms, a dedicated line to each bedroom for a window AC,
etc.). He wasn't an easy person to communicate with, so I couldn't get a
clear answer about what would happen if I just had a new electrical service
installed and keep the existing wiring throughout the house.

My concern is really not about the cost. It's about whether getting into
that entire project is going to expose me to a nightmare of regulations and
inspections.

What I am wondering is, could I just have the service panel replaced and
upgraded and basically just be exposed to the permit regulations related to
that and not be required to bring everything else in the house up to current
codes? In other words, the existing wiring would just be reconnected to the
upgrade panel. If that's how it would work, that's what I would want to do.

Is that how it typically works?

(I am in New Jersey, and I do know that in the end I will need to find out
for sure from the local building inspector, but I am hoping to get some
ideas about it from here first).

You would need to bring the house *electrical* up to current codes, not the
house itself. In my area this includes adding smoke detectors on both sides
of all bedroom doors.

The work would be inspected by an electrical inspector only.

If you have the money to have this done now, I would do it now. These things
go up in cost as the years advance!

Also electrical codes are designed to protect life and property. *Your* life
and your property that is. Your electrical wiring would be pretty darn safe
if brought up to code.

The kitchen is a biggie. A lot of things in a kitchen need to be on their
own 20 amp circuit. Like microwave, refrigerator, etc. But best to do this
so circuits are not overloaded.

But the best part is outlets which work (don't need to "jiggle" the plug).
Circuits which can handle the load (circuit does not trip when trying to
vacuum, etc.). Three prong outlets everywhere. It just makes day to day
living more pleasant when your outlets work properly and circuits work
without tripping.

Some advice: I would have all outlet circuits be 20 amp. This is the best
and would not cost much more than 15 amp circuits. Things like a space
heater can easily trip a 15 amp circuit when other things are plugged in.
Also be sure to have outlets added in hallways. Makes vacuuming easier.

Might want to get three quotes from different companies. Maybe you will find
an electrician who can communicate with you better.


"BETA-32" wrote in message
I bought an old, 2-1/2-story, semi-detached home a while back as-is. It
has old wiring throughout and, due to the way it is constructed, rewiring
the entire house will not be easy (mostly because the side. front, and back
walls are all masonry). It now has 100-amp service with circuit breakers.

Here's what I am trying to figure out. Should I have the entire house
rewired now (including a new service panel, etc), or should I start out by
just having the new service panel put in (probably will be 200-amp
service) and then worry about rewiring rooms etc. later on? I do know
that I will need a permit either way.

If I have the entire house rewired, an electrician I had look at the house
said that means the whole house will have to be brought up to all of the
current codes (outlets every so many feet in the kitchen, outlets every so
many feet in bedrooms, a dedicated line to each bedroom for a window AC,
etc.). He wasn't an easy person to communicate with, so I couldn't get a
clear answer about what would happen if I just had a new electrical
service installed and keep the existing wiring throughout the house.

My concern is really not about the cost. It's about whether getting into
that entire project is going to expose me to a nightmare of regulations
and inspections.

What I am wondering is, could I just have the service panel replaced and
upgraded and basically just be exposed to the permit regulations related
to that and not be required to bring everything else in the house up to
current codes? In other words, the existing wiring would just be
reconnected to the upgrade panel. If that's how it would work, that's
what I would want to do.

Is that how it typically works?

(I am in New Jersey, and I do know that in the end I will need to find out
for sure from the local building inspector, but I am hoping to get some
ideas about it from here first).

Find an electrician on the up-and-up who can answer your questions.
You are much better off by following the code and having it
inspected both for personal peace of mind and insurance
reasons. I would also investigate either full or partial AC.
I purchased a 4 level house without central air conditioning
and was able to run central AC to all rooms using attic space and
inside of closets for lower levels.

If you find an electrician willing to do the work without a permit
find someone else. In my state and county there is a page in
the local paper for stop work orders for people having work
done without permits. Make sure your electrician is licensed.

Good Luck

--
______________
lvMMMCDLXXIX+1
"BETA-32" wrote in message
. ..
I bought an old, 2-1/2-story, semi-detached home a while back as-is. It
has old wiring throughout and, due to the way it is constructed, rewiring
the entire house will not be easy (mostly because the side. front, and back
walls are all masonry). It now has 100-amp service with circuit breakers.

Here's what I am trying to figure out. Should I have the entire house
rewired now (including a new service panel, etc), or should I start out by
just having the new service panel put in (probably will be 200-amp
service) and then worry about rewiring rooms etc. later on? I do know
that I will need a permit either way.

If I have the entire house rewired, an electrician I had look at the house
said that means the whole house will have to be brought up to all of the
current codes (outlets every so many feet in the kitchen, outlets every so
many feet in bedrooms, a dedicated line to each bedroom for a window AC,
etc.). He wasn't an easy person to communicate with, so I couldn't get a
clear answer about what would happen if I just had a new electrical
service installed and keep the existing wiring throughout the house.

My concern is really not about the cost. It's about whether getting into
that entire project is going to expose me to a nightmare of regulations
and inspections.

What I am wondering is, could I just have the service panel replaced and
upgraded and basically just be exposed to the permit regulations related
to that and not be required to bring everything else in the house up to
current codes? In other words, the existing wiring would just be
reconnected to the upgrade panel. If that's how it would work, that's
what I would want to do.

Is that how it typically works?

(I am in New Jersey, and I do know that in the end I will need to find out
for sure from the local building inspector, but I am hoping to get some
ideas about it from here first).

"Photon713" wrote in message
news:0W24h.2051$Lt4.915@trnddc08...
Find an electrician on the up-and-up who can answer your questions.
You are much better off by following the code and having it
inspected both for personal peace of mind and insurance
reasons. . . .

Thanks. I probably worded things wrong but I definitely do not want to have
done without a permit, the required inspection that goes with that, etc.

But what I was trying to figure out is if I just have new (say 200-amp)
service brought in, will I be able to just get a permit for that, have it
done, and have the existing wiring connected to the new service panel
without rewiring the whole house? If I can, I would like to have that done
and then have the rest of the wiring done later, possibly in stages.

I would also investigate either full or partial AC.

I have been thinking about doing that, which is partly why I am thinking of
200-amp service. The house itself will present a lot of problems trying to
make that possible, such as no attic. I probably should have said 3-story
instead of 2-1/2 story because the 3rd floor is finished with 3 rooms and a
hallway -- just all of the rooms have sloping ceilings. One option may be
to provide central air for just the first and second floors, but whatever I
do in terms of AC won't be happening for a while.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
You would need to bring the house *electrical* up to current codes, not
the house itself. In my area this includes adding smoke detectors on both
sides of all bedroom doors.

Yes, that's what I meant to say -- the whole house up to current
*electrical* codes.

The kitchen is a biggie. A lot of things in a kitchen need to be on their
own 20 amp circuit. Like microwave, refrigerator, etc. But best to do this
so circuits are not overloaded.

The electrician did say that.

Some advice: I would have all outlet circuits be 20 amp. This is the best
and would not cost much more than 15 amp circuits. Things like a space
heater can easily trip a 15 amp circuit when other things are plugged in.

The electrician said that, too. I thought that made sense but I wasn't sure
if he was overdoing things since he kept going on and on about so many
things that need to be done, should be done, etc. (including cable wiring,
phone wiring, recessed lighting,....).

Also be sure to have outlets added in hallways. Makes vacuuming easier.

Makes sense to me.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out if, for now, I can just get the new
200-amp service installed without having the whole house rewired. If so, I
would probably have the rewiring done later in stages (such as first floor
and kitchen first, etc.).

Thanks for all the good advice.

"Bill" wrote in message
....
Basically, I'm trying to figure out if, for now, I can just get the new
200-amp service installed without having the whole house rewired. ...

Here, definitely a "yes"--there, "I don't know".

Call the building permits official's office (whatever it's called in
you jurisdiction, here it's under the auspices of the "City Engineer"
and ask what is allowed/will be required.

If you're talking of a significant remodel, in actuality it would
probably be cheaper in the overall scheme of things to simply do the
whole thing in the beginning when you can with near impunity go ahead
and get the access required to do the wiring and then do the finish and
other interior work.

If the idea is (say) simply a kitchen remodel, here at least you can
get the work permit to cover that job and that's where the jurisdiction
would end. The only thing I can think of under rules here would be if
the existing wiring were discovered at the time of the inspection to be
so bad as to be unsafe to the point of them declaring the dwelling
uninhabitable, that that would be something that you'd not want to
risk, anyway.

But, the upshot is, other than the suggestions you've receieved of some
things to consider, the only answer is to contact your local officials
to find out what the rules are where you are.

BETA-32 wrote:
"Photon713" wrote in message
news:0W24h.2051$Lt4.915@trnddc08...
Find an electrician on the up-and-up who can answer your questions.
You are much better off by following the code and having it
inspected both for personal peace of mind and insurance
reasons. . . .

Thanks. I probably worded things wrong but I definitely do not want to have
done without a permit, the required inspection that goes with that, etc.

But what I was trying to figure out is if I just have new (say 200-amp)
service brought in, will I be able to just get a permit for that, have it
done, and have the existing wiring connected to the new service panel
without rewiring the whole house? If I can, I would like to have that done
and then have the rest of the wiring done later, possibly in stages.

I would also investigate either full or partial AC.

I have been thinking about doing that, which is partly why I am thinking of
200-amp service. The house itself will present a lot of problems trying to
make that possible, such as no attic. I probably should have said 3-story
instead of 2-1/2 story because the 3rd floor is finished with 3 rooms and a
hallway -- just all of the rooms have sloping ceilings. One option may be
to provide central air for just the first and second floors, but whatever I
do in terms of AC won't be happening for a while.


My two cents:

You can very likely have the panel upgraded to 200A without having to
bring the whole electric system up to current code. But, if you later
then replace all the old wiring, part of the work is going to be
redone, as they have to rip all the wiring from the breakers out of the
panel again and replace it. Unless there is some compelling reason to
upgrade to 200A now and put off the rest, I'd do it all at the same
time, whenever that is.

How old is the wiring? What type is it? Grounded/ungrounded, etc.
What real shortcomings are an issue with it right now?

"BETA-32" wrote in message
. ..
I bought an old, 2-1/2-story, semi-detached home a while back as-is. It
has
old wiring throughout and, due to the way it is constructed, rewiring the
entire house will not be easy (mostly because the side. front, and back
walls are all masonry). It now has 100-amp service with circuit breakers.

Here's what I am trying to figure out. Should I have the entire house
rewired now (including a new service panel, etc), or should I start out by
just having the new service panel put in (probably will be 200-amp
service)
and then worry about rewiring rooms etc. later on? I do know that I will
need a permit either way.

If I have the entire house rewired, an electrician I had look at the house
said that means the whole house will have to be brought up to all of the
current codes (outlets every so many feet in the kitchen, outlets every so
many feet in bedrooms, a dedicated line to each bedroom for a window AC,
etc.). He wasn't an easy person to communicate with, so I couldn't get a
clear answer about what would happen if I just had a new electrical
service
installed and keep the existing wiring throughout the house.

My concern is really not about the cost. It's about whether getting into
that entire project is going to expose me to a nightmare of regulations
and
inspections.

What I am wondering is, could I just have the service panel replaced and
upgraded and basically just be exposed to the permit regulations related
to
that and not be required to bring everything else in the house up to
current
codes? In other words, the existing wiring would just be reconnected to
the
upgrade panel. If that's how it would work, that's what I would want to
do.

Is that how it typically works?

(I am in New Jersey, and I do know that in the end I will need to find out
for sure from the local building inspector, but I am hoping to get some
ideas about it from here first).



New Jersey is one of the few states that has a "Rehab Code".
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/rehab/index.shtml It was designed to
minimize expenses when rehabbing an old house. You can find a copy of it on
the New Jersey web site. My brother is an electrical inspector in one of
the tougher code enforcement towns and he always tells me that he can't make
homeowners bring their house up to current code because of the Rehab code.
Many building inspectors are not fully aware of the Rehab code and it may be
a tough sell to get them to comply with it. You might want to print out a
copy and show it to your local building inspector and ask him what he
thinks.

Based on that you can upgrade whatever you want without being forced to
upgrade the whole house. Although in the long run it is best to bring the
house up to modern standards as much as possible for safety, convenience,
and resale. You would still need to install smoke alarms and carbon
monoxide detectors as per the fire code.

In article .com,
says...

My two cents:

You can very likely have the panel upgraded to 200A without having to
bring the whole electric system up to current code. But, if you later
then replace all the old wiring, part of the work is going to be
redone, as they have to rip all the wiring from the breakers out of the
panel again and replace it.

When we had a new service and panel put in, we rewired much of the
house, but not all, because some parts were going to be extensively
remodeled, so we could do new wiring in them later.

The electrician kept the box from the old panel in place and used it as
a junction box for the few old circuits that were fed from the new
panel. The new panel was only a couple of feet away, so the wiring to
use the old circuits with the new panel was very simple, just a few runs
of wire a few feet long, from the new breakers to the box from the old
panel.

When it came time for the renovation of the rooms with the old circuits,
the old panel's box was removed, and the new circuits were run directly
to the new panel. The switch-over took less than an hour of
electrician's time for all the circuits that we switched from old to
new.

That was all with permits, inspections, etc.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html

"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...

New Jersey is one of the few states that has a "Rehab Code".
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/rehab/index.shtml It was designed to
minimize expenses when rehabbing an old house. You can find a copy of it
on
the New Jersey web site.

Wow! That's amazing! Thanks.

That's exactly the information I need.

My brother is an electrical inspector in one of
the tougher code enforcement towns and he always tells me that he can't
make
homeowners bring their house up to current code because of the Rehab code.
Many building inspectors are not fully aware of the Rehab code and it may
be
a tough sell to get them to comply with it. You might want to print out a
copy and show it to your local building inspector and ask him what he
thinks.

Based on that you can upgrade whatever you want without being forced to
upgrade the whole house. Although in the long run it is best to bring the
house up to modern standards as much as possible for safety, convenience,
and resale. You would still need to install smoke alarms and carbon
monoxide detectors as per the fire code.

wrote in message
.net...
In article .com,
says...

When we had a new service and panel put in, we rewired much of the
house, but not all, because some parts were going to be extensively
remodeled, so we could do new wiring in them later.

The electrician kept the box from the old panel in place and used it as
a junction box for the few old circuits that were fed from the new
panel. The new panel was only a couple of feet away, so the wiring to
use the old circuits with the new panel was very simple, just a few runs
of wire a few feet long, from the new breakers to the box from the old
panel.

When it came time for the renovation of the rooms with the old circuits,
the old panel's box was removed, and the new circuits were run directly
to the new panel. The switch-over took less than an hour of
electrician's time for all the circuits that we switched from old to
new.

That was all with permits, inspections, etc.


Thanks. I think that's the approach I am going to end up using.

BETA-32 posted for all of us...

I bought an old, 2-1/2-story, semi-detached home a while back as-is. It has
old wiring throughout and, due to the way it is constructed, rewiring the
entire house will not be easy (mostly because the side. front, and back
walls are all masonry). It now has 100-amp service with circuit breakers.

Here's what I am trying to figure out. Should I have the entire house
rewired now (including a new service panel, etc), or should I start out by
just having the new service panel put in (probably will be 200-amp service)
and then worry about rewiring rooms etc. later on? I do know that I will
need a permit either way.

If I have the entire house rewired, an electrician I had look at the house
said that means the whole house will have to be brought up to all of the
current codes (outlets every so many feet in the kitchen, outlets every so
many feet in bedrooms, a dedicated line to each bedroom for a window AC,
etc.). He wasn't an easy person to communicate with, so I couldn't get a
clear answer about what would happen if I just had a new electrical service
installed and keep the existing wiring throughout the house.

My concern is really not about the cost. It's about whether getting into
that entire project is going to expose me to a nightmare of regulations and
inspections.

What I am wondering is, could I just have the service panel replaced and
upgraded and basically just be exposed to the permit regulations related to
that and not be required to bring everything else in the house up to current
codes? In other words, the existing wiring would just be reconnected to the
upgrade panel. If that's how it would work, that's what I would want to do.

Is that how it typically works?

(I am in New Jersey, and I do know that in the end I will need to find out
for sure from the local building inspector, but I am hoping to get some
ideas about it from here first).



Asked and answered MANY times - do your own research.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

"Tekkie®" wrote in message
...
Asked and answered MANY times - do your own research.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

Gee, you managed to post 21 of these same messages in this newsgroup on
11/08/2006 alone. What a sad and lonely loser you must be.

BETA-32 posted for all of us...

Gee, you managed to post 21 of these same messages in this newsgroup on
11/08/2006 alone.

I am glad you are keeping count because I'm not! So YOU are the LUSER.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.