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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank

I'm working on putting in Cement pads for my Well and 5000 gal Water Storage
Tank. The tank is about 40' away from the Well.

I want to make sure I make the Pads big enough for the equipment. I'd like
to just have the Tank there on its own and then have lines back to the Well
Pad for the Feed and Supply. So at the Well Head I'd have the Pump in the
Well, the Buster pump for the stored water, the pressure tank and all of the
lines to the irrigation, house, etc.

Is there any rule of thumb on how far away the booster pump and Pressure
tank should be from the storage tank?

If the booster pump and Pressure tank are at the well head, they would be a
foot or so lower in elevation then if they were at the tank itself.

Any Suggestions or diagrams of external tank hookups would be great!

Thank you!


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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:29:07 GMT, "Scott Townsend"
wrote:

I'm working on putting in Cement pads for my Well and 5000 gal Water Storage
Tank. The tank is about 40' away from the Well.

I want to make sure I make the Pads big enough for the equipment. I'd like
to just have the Tank there on its own and then have lines back to the Well
Pad for the Feed and Supply. So at the Well Head I'd have the Pump in the
Well, the Buster pump for the stored water, the pressure tank and all of the
lines to the irrigation, house, etc.

Is there any rule of thumb on how far away the booster pump and Pressure
tank should be from the storage tank?

If the booster pump and Pressure tank are at the well head, they would be a
foot or so lower in elevation then if they were at the tank itself.

Any Suggestions or diagrams of external tank hookups would be great!

Thank you!


Let's go backwards. From the tank to the pressure pump, run a line one
size larger than the intake on the pressure pump. Tee into this with
the discharge from the well pump. This is assuming the well discharge
doesn't have to go into the tank for treatment or settling first.

--Andy Asberry recommends NewsGuy--
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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank



Since it is all under pressure elevation isn't going to be all that
great a factor. The pressure switch usually is on the exit part of the
storage tank, but since pressure is constant till you get to the
booster pump anywhere before it should yield satisfactory results. You
should consider a pop-off valve on the well head for the "just in case
factor" like the switch not kicking the pump off.

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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank

Maybe I was not clear. I threw together this Drawing.
http://www.enm.com/scott/water-tank.pdf

I have the Well Feeding the Storage Tank.

Then I have from the Tank a Booster Pump, Pressure Switch and Pressure Tank,
then a Line out to the house.

Where 'should' or where could I put the Booster Pump, Pressure Switch and
Pressure Tank? I'd like to put it next to the well head, which is about 40'
away from the storage Tank.

Thank you,
Scott-=
"Andy Asberry" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:29:07 GMT, "Scott Townsend"
wrote:

I'm working on putting in Cement pads for my Well and 5000 gal Water
Storage
Tank. The tank is about 40' away from the Well.

I want to make sure I make the Pads big enough for the equipment. I'd
like
to just have the Tank there on its own and then have lines back to the
Well
Pad for the Feed and Supply. So at the Well Head I'd have the Pump in the
Well, the Buster pump for the stored water, the pressure tank and all of
the
lines to the irrigation, house, etc.

Is there any rule of thumb on how far away the booster pump and Pressure
tank should be from the storage tank?

If the booster pump and Pressure tank are at the well head, they would be
a
foot or so lower in elevation then if they were at the tank itself.

Any Suggestions or diagrams of external tank hookups would be great!

Thank you!


Let's go backwards. From the tank to the pressure pump, run a line one
size larger than the intake on the pressure pump. Tee into this with
the discharge from the well pump. This is assuming the well discharge
doesn't have to go into the tank for treatment or settling first.

--Andy Asberry recommends NewsGuy--



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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank


Why not pump from well to house and skip the tank? Anyway, if the draw
from the tank is from the 2500 gal. mark, then you only have a 2500
gal. tank since you can't get the bottom 2500 gal. If you were to get a
shallow well jet pump and a 20 gal. pressure tank, the switch is
already on the pump and the 50ft. or so from the tank is nothing. The
weight of the water in the tank is probably equal to a booster pump.
Keep the pipe from the tank at least 1" in diameter with a check valve
just before the pump so you don't lose prime.



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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank


Scott Townsend wrote:
I'm working on putting in Cement pads for my Well and 5000 gal Water Storage
Tank. The tank is about 40' away from the Well.

I want to make sure I make the Pads big enough for the equipment. I'd like
to just have the Tank there on its own and then have lines back to the Well
Pad for the Feed and Supply. So at the Well Head I'd have the Pump in the
Well, the Buster pump for the stored water, the pressure tank and all of the
lines to the irrigation, house, etc.

Is there any rule of thumb on how far away the booster pump and Pressure
tank should be from the storage tank?

If the booster pump and Pressure tank are at the well head, they would be a
foot or so lower in elevation then if they were at the tank itself.

Any Suggestions or diagrams of external tank hookups would be great!

Thank you!


Your hook-up looks good.

Rick has a point. Why draw from halfway up the tank?

You don't discuss the pump feeding the storeage tank. You need a
switch of some sort (float maybe) to control that pump.

Your booster pump should also have a low pressure cut-off in case the
storeage tank empties for some reason.

I would mount the booster pump and tank inside the house. Save
building a well house and makes maintenance a lot easier. Of course if
you are someplace that doesn't have to worryi about freezing...

Harry K

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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank


Good drawing, but I don't see how the pressure switch is going to
control the well pump. Normally the switch needs to be before the
booster pump with that pump having its own control usually activated by
flow, not pressure drop. that makes for a smooth running system with
little pressure change regardless of draw. Booster pumps also require a
check valve, to keep the high pressure isolated from the low pressure,
if the switch in the drawing is the well control switch the pump would
be in constant off mode due to the pressure on the high side of the
booster.

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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank

According to Scott Townsend :
Okay, So I know I left quite a few things out. Let me see if I can answer
some of the Questions.


The Tank's Main purpose is to be in compliance with the Fire Safe Standards
(we are in Northern CA on 2.5 acres)
It requires me to have 2500 Gallons of Water to be used at any time for a
Hydrant hookup. So the Hydrant is connected to the bottom on the Tank to be
able to draw the full potential of the tank. The Domestic Supply is at the
2500 gallon level so I would always have at least the 2500 gallons needed
for Fire Safe Standards.


Maybe Booster Pump is the wrong term. The Pump that will pressurize the
domestic supply line.


In other words, the well pump fills the storage tank to a particular
level, and the tank isn't pressurized. The outflow from the 2500 gal
point goes off to be pressurized with the booster pump for household use
via the pressure tank. The well pump is controlled via a level switch
in the tank. The booster pump is controlled by a pressure switch on
the pressure tank (_and_ some sort of level switch in the tank.)

It's generally better to push water than to suck it. Which suggests
that the booster pump should be at the storage tank. If it isn't,
you're relying on gravity feed to get the water from the storage
tank to the booster - the line has to be big. Which also means that
you have to be very careful to have a level switch in the tank to
inhibit the booster pump if the water level gets too low (some inches
above the booster outflow, otherwise it'll suck air.

You can still have the booster in the house (or at the well head)
if the gravity feed will be strong enough.

It occurs to me that you might as well have the booster pump line
"tap" off the storage tank at the bottom to maximize head pressure.
Use a level switch to inhibit the booster when the water level
drops to the 2500 gal level. This still guarantees your "2500 gal
availability for fire" requirement, and at the same time makes
air problems/dry running the booster less likely - especially if
the booster is at the house or the well head.

Mind you, since the 2500gal reserve depends on a level switch, rather
than the inherent "tap off level", it may not be acceptable - you may
have to ask.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank


Scott Townsend wrote:
Okay, So I know I left quite a few things out. Let me see if I can answer
some of the Questions.

The Tank's Main purpose is to be in compliance with the Fire Safe Standards
(we are in Northern CA on 2.5 acres)
It requires me to have 2500 Gallons of Water to be used at any time for a
Hydrant hookup. So the Hydrant is connected to the bottom on the Tank to be
able to draw the full potential of the tank. The Domestic Supply is at the
2500 gallon level so I would always have at least the 2500 gallons needed
for Fire Safe Standards.

Maybe Booster Pump is the wrong term. The Pump that will pressurize the
domestic supply line.

Since we can run our well Dry by running the sprinklers for several hours,
we wanted to be able to store the water and use it from the store and just
slowly refill the tank as needed.

I work for an Industrial control and automation company and have access to
sensors and controls that will deal with the water flow, level of the tank
and filling of the Tank, etc.

So Drawing #2, not as pretty but to Scale and more functional.
http://www.enm.com/scott/fire-safe-standards.pdf

So I'd like to know where I should place the Pump and Pressure Tank for the
Domestic Supply line. Should I put it all near the Well, or should I put it
near the Storage Tank?

I'd rather put it near the Well, so I do not have to bring 240v out to the
Storage Tank.

Thanks!



Good thinking on the tank. Makes sense.

Booster Pump is the correct and the technical term. Usually used to
increase the pressure above the incoming pressure.

Where to place the pump/tank - whereever is convenient and
cost-effective. There is some consideration to be made re 'suck vs
push' but with at least a few pounds of pressure input to the pump it
shouldn't be a problem. The pump pressure switch does need to have
'low pressure' cut-off. Lots of them have it as part of the regular
switch.

Looks like your storage tank is about 60 ft from the house. I don't
see any elevations on the drawing. That could enter into the pump/tank
location question. Figure .5 psi per foot head to see what the input
pressure to your booster pump will be at various locations. The true
head pressure is .46 per foot but the .5 makes some allowance for
pipe/fitting restrictions and will be close enough for government work.
Best location IMO for the pump/tank is in the house. Easy
maintenance, no worries about freezing, etc.

Harry K

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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank

thanks guys for the help.

The Elevation will be interesting. If I always have the 2500 gallons in it
and either draw from the bottom, or from the 2500 gallon mark, the elevation
would be 4-5 above where the pump would be at the well head.

So I think that should be sufficient enough to get the water to the pump
from the tank.

I like the Idea of Drawing down Low and putting in a Cut off if it gets to
below 2500. That way I'm recircing the water and not letting the bottom 2500
just sit there. Yeah I know it wont really get stagnant there, but it would
be better circulation if I drew from the bottom. I have all the sensors &
Control for that.

Thanks All again...

Scott-


"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...

Scott Townsend wrote:
Okay, So I know I left quite a few things out. Let me see if I can
answer
some of the Questions.

The Tank's Main purpose is to be in compliance with the Fire Safe
Standards
(we are in Northern CA on 2.5 acres)
It requires me to have 2500 Gallons of Water to be used at any time for a
Hydrant hookup. So the Hydrant is connected to the bottom on the Tank to
be
able to draw the full potential of the tank. The Domestic Supply is at
the
2500 gallon level so I would always have at least the 2500 gallons needed
for Fire Safe Standards.

Maybe Booster Pump is the wrong term. The Pump that will pressurize the
domestic supply line.

Since we can run our well Dry by running the sprinklers for several
hours,
we wanted to be able to store the water and use it from the store and
just
slowly refill the tank as needed.

I work for an Industrial control and automation company and have access
to
sensors and controls that will deal with the water flow, level of the
tank
and filling of the Tank, etc.

So Drawing #2, not as pretty but to Scale and more functional.
http://www.enm.com/scott/fire-safe-standards.pdf

So I'd like to know where I should place the Pump and Pressure Tank for
the
Domestic Supply line. Should I put it all near the Well, or should I put
it
near the Storage Tank?

I'd rather put it near the Well, so I do not have to bring 240v out to
the
Storage Tank.

Thanks!



Good thinking on the tank. Makes sense.

Booster Pump is the correct and the technical term. Usually used to
increase the pressure above the incoming pressure.

Where to place the pump/tank - whereever is convenient and
cost-effective. There is some consideration to be made re 'suck vs
push' but with at least a few pounds of pressure input to the pump it
shouldn't be a problem. The pump pressure switch does need to have
'low pressure' cut-off. Lots of them have it as part of the regular
switch.

Looks like your storage tank is about 60 ft from the house. I don't
see any elevations on the drawing. That could enter into the pump/tank
location question. Figure .5 psi per foot head to see what the input
pressure to your booster pump will be at various locations. The true
head pressure is .46 per foot but the .5 makes some allowance for
pipe/fitting restrictions and will be close enough for government work.
Best location IMO for the pump/tank is in the house. Easy
maintenance, no worries about freezing, etc.

Harry K





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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank

According to Scott Townsend :
thanks guys for the help.


The Elevation will be interesting. If I always have the 2500 gallons in it
and either draw from the bottom, or from the 2500 gallon mark, the elevation
would be 4-5 above where the pump would be at the well head.


Feet I assume? That will imply a minimum head pressure of about 2.5-3 PSI.

So I think that should be sufficient enough to get the water to the pump
from the tank.


Just keep the tank-booster pump line size large. Go 1 1/4" or even
larger. That might be overkill, but it's better than underkill, and PVC
tubing is cheap.

I like the Idea of Drawing down Low and putting in a Cut off if it gets to
below 2500. That way I'm recircing the water and not letting the bottom 2500
just sit there. Yeah I know it wont really get stagnant there, but it would
be better circulation if I drew from the bottom. I have all the sensors &
Control for that.


You'd be amazed how much a water tank can stratify. It can be
quite dramatic with hot water tanks. They're designed to do that
to a certain extent, but...

It probably would be a good idea to put an elbow or deflector on
the tank inlet to provide some "rotational" urge to the incoming
water.

The booster pump line should be a few inches off the bottom of
the tank to allow for small amounts of sediment. Filter screens
etc.

[I have no idea what you have to do to tanked water to maintain
reasonable levels of purity/prevent algae/clarity etc. In
California's heat, I assume you have to do _something_.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank


Scott Townsend wrote:
thanks guys for the help.

The Elevation will be interesting. If I always have the 2500 gallons in it
and either draw from the bottom, or from the 2500 gallon mark, the elevation
would be 4-5 above where the pump would be at the well head.

So I think that should be sufficient enough to get the water to the pump
from the tank.

I like the Idea of Drawing down Low and putting in a Cut off if it gets to
below 2500. That way I'm recircing the water and not letting the bottom 2500
just sit there. Yeah I know it wont really get stagnant there, but it would
be better circulation if I drew from the bottom. I have all the sensors &
Control for that.

Thanks All again...

Scott-



Good point about the bottom half just sitting there. I do like your
idea of drawing from the middle of the tank so you always have 2500 gal
for fire protection. You can gain both items. Just install your input
pipe from the well at the bottom of the tank - that will keep the
contents stirred every time the pump runs. Might even simplify your
plumbing layout.

Harry K

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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank

replying to Scott Townsend, Ruth wrote:
scott-i wrote:

I'm working on putting in Cement pads for my Well and 5000 gal Water

Storage
Tank. The tank is about 40' away from the Well.
I want to make sure I make the Pads big enough for the equipment. I'd

like
to just have the Tank there on its own and then have lines back to the

Well
Pad for the Feed and Supply. So at the Well Head I'd have the Pump in the
Well, the Buster pump for the stored water, the pressure tank and all of

the
lines to the irrigation, house, etc.
Is there any rule of thumb on how far away the booster pump and Pressure
tank should be from the storage tank?
If the booster pump and Pressure tank are at the well head, they would be

a
foot or so lower in elevation then if they were at the tank itself.
Any Suggestions or diagrams of external tank hookups would be great!
Thank you!




can't locate drawing, pdf http://www.enm.com/scott/water-tank.pdf comes
up as error..............female need this info as I need to install same
thanks,



--


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Default Water Storage Tank - Plumbing the Pump & Pressure Tank

On Sunday, September 27, 2015 at 10:44:07 PM UTC-5, Ruth wrote:
replying to Scott Townsend, Ruth wrote:
scott-i wrote:

I'm working on putting in Cement pads for my Well and 5000 gal Water

Storage
Tank. The tank is about 40' away from the Well.
I want to make sure I make the Pads big enough for the equipment. I'd

like
to just have the Tank there on its own and then have lines back to the

Well
Pad for the Feed and Supply. So at the Well Head I'd have the Pump in the
Well, the Buster pump for the stored water, the pressure tank and all of

the
lines to the irrigation, house, etc.
Is there any rule of thumb on how far away the booster pump and Pressure
tank should be from the storage tank?
If the booster pump and Pressure tank are at the well head, they would be

a
foot or so lower in elevation then if they were at the tank itself.
Any Suggestions or diagrams of external tank hookups would be great!
Thank you!




can't locate drawing, pdf http://www.enm.com/scott/water-tank.pdf comes
up as error..............female need this info as I need to install same
thanks,

--


Ruth dear, you're responding to a 9 year old post. If you need some help with a problem, start a new thread here where there are a lot of nice knowledgeable people who would try to help you. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Post Monster
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