Need a little help over here......

I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the compressor and
squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The compressor pumps
freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled air into
ductwork.

A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall unit.
Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a transformer
and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units, but a
measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any voltage.


So, here's why help is so desperately needed. We called BGE Home two weeks ago,
they scheduled a technician for last Monday afternoon. I lose 1/2 day from
work....BGEHome technician walks in and says.... you need to remove the ceiling panel
before I can work on the system. He writes a bill for $85.00 and leaves. Tuesday I
arrange people to come in and remove the ceiling panel to the ceiling a/c. Not a
difficult job. I place a service call...BGE home says....we'll have a technician out on
Friday. Friday comes, I have the ceiling company standing by, ready to replace the
a/c ceiling panel. BGE Home technician calls and leaves this message, "I won't be out
there today. Bye"....

So the ceiling people leave...2 people at 75.00 per hour for 4 hours waiting for the BGE
Home people. Irate we call BGE... They promise PROMISE AND PROMISE....WE WILL
have a technician out there on Saturday. Again...we wait. A technician walks in, says
"Oh, I don't work on these...I'm only an instructor" and walks back out the door.
Wait, we say...'who's going to fix this" and he says " Oh, I'll call the regular
repair rep...he'll be out tonight. So I call BGE Home and speak to the "duty manager"
who is your typical lousy customer service dead end guy.... the one who is supposed to
get the irate calls and doesn't give a rat's ass about customer service. He promises to
send a 'senior technician' out on Monday. Again someone has to be home from 12 to 4. I
ask him if he see's ANYTHING wrong with the whole scenario. He says "Oh, I'm not a
technician". This is BGE Home in Washington D.C. a somewhat major city.

BGE Home has ONE telephone number for the entire operation.... so corporate mid-level
management is well protected from their customer base.... sound familiar ???

Any help is appreciated...... if you live in Washington, D.C. and have a good
service company please let me know. Secondly, is there someplace online where
I can get a good service manual for the unit...provided I have a unit number.... and
Thirdly what's a good logistics source for Bryant air conditioners ???

What signals should I be looking for in the low voltage circuit....there are 5 legs on
the relay which is mounted onto a step down transformer.....probably 2 line input, 2
output and there is a 5th wire in the center of the relay.

Thanking you in advance !!!


Peter

PS... To the doom sayers... it's okay... I had years of experience of troubleshooting
computer and aviation electronics.... so I won't fry, I won't try to recharge the
high pressure side of the compressor and I promise to put all the screws back in
the ceiling panel when finished. Did I miss anything ??? I shouldn't have to be
doing this myself.....

Peter wrote:

Need a little help over here......

I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the compressor and
squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The compressor pumps
freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled air into
ductwork.

A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall unit.
Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a transformer
and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units, but a
measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any voltage.



SNIP

Argh! I feel for you.

First, there should be a controls diagram *somewhere*, probably
at the ceiling unit.

Measure if there is 24V right at the xfmr terminals. Work from there.

Jim
ex-DC'er

There is a control diagram on one of the squirrel cage housings...trouble is it is covered
in dirt and all attempts to clean the dirt off just obliterates the diagram. This is
curious as the rest of the housing looks very clean and the unit itself looks very clean.
Just the diagram seems to be collecting dirt.

No 24V (no low voltage) coming off the terminals....... . Would it do any good to
remove the relay and transformer to ohm them out ??? Is there anyway to obtain
a replacement part ???

I'm also thinking of trying to get a 24vac source to energize and test the rest of the
circuitry, using one of the old telephone step down transformers....low voltage low
current... any drawbacks to this method ??? (other than turning on line voltage to
test).


I'll be back there tomorrow....too hot to spend the night (condo's suck up heat and
the windows aren't the best in the world). Any other answers or thoughts are appreciated
!!

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:32:55 GMT, Speedy Jim wrote:

Peter wrote:

Need a little help over here......

I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the compressor and
squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The compressor pumps
freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled air into
ductwork.

A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall unit.
Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a transformer
and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units, but a
measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any voltage.



SNIP

Argh! I feel for you.

First, there should be a controls diagram *somewhere*, probably
at the ceiling unit.

Measure if there is 24V right at the xfmr terminals. Work from there.

Jim
ex-DC'er

Peter wrote:

There is a control diagram on one of the squirrel cage housings...trouble is it is covered
in dirt and all attempts to clean the dirt off just obliterates the diagram. This is
curious as the rest of the housing looks very clean and the unit itself looks very clean.
Just the diagram seems to be collecting dirt.

No 24V (no low voltage) coming off the terminals....... . Would it do any good to
remove the relay and transformer to ohm them out ??? Is there anyway to obtain
a replacement part ???

See if there is 120V on the xfmr primary. If there is, Ohm out
the primary. The relay shouldn't be needed just to get 24V from the
xfmr. If no 120V on primary, work back.

A tel. xfmr won't have enough voltage. Big Box store might have
HVAC basic components like this.

Jim


I'm also thinking of trying to get a 24vac source to energize and test the rest of the
circuitry, using one of the old telephone step down transformers....low voltage low
current... any drawbacks to this method ??? (other than turning on line voltage to
test).


I'll be back there tomorrow....too hot to spend the night (condo's suck up heat and
the windows aren't the best in the world). Any other answers or thoughts are appreciated
!!

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:32:55 GMT, Speedy Jim wrote:


Peter wrote:


Need a little help over here......

I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the compressor and
squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The compressor pumps
freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled air into
ductwork.

A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall unit.
Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a transformer
and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units, but a
measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any voltage.



SNIP

Argh! I feel for you.

First, there should be a controls diagram *somewhere*, probably
at the ceiling unit.

Measure if there is 24V right at the xfmr terminals. Work from there.

Jim
ex-DC'er

"Peter" wrote in message
...
Need a little help over here......

I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the
compressor and
squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The
compressor pumps
freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled
air into
ductwork.

A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall
unit.
Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a
transformer
and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units,
but a
measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any
voltage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF you have 120 on the input of the xformer and no 24 on the secondary, the
xformer is shot,
or maybe the secondary is fused?

__________________----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So, here's why help is so desperately needed. We called BGE Home two
weeks ago,
they scheduled a technician for last Monday afternoon. I lose 1/2 day
from
work....BGEHome technician walks in and says.... you need to remove the
ceiling panel
before I can work on the system. He writes a bill for $85.00 and leaves.
Tuesday I
arrange people to come in and remove the ceiling panel to the ceiling a/c.
Not a
difficult job. I place a service call...BGE home says....we'll have a
technician out on
Friday. Friday comes, I have the ceiling company standing by, ready
to replace the
a/c ceiling panel. BGE Home technician calls and leaves this message,
"I won't be out
there today. Bye"....

So the ceiling people leave...2 people at 75.00 per hour for 4 hours
waiting for the BGE
Home people. Irate we call BGE... They promise PROMISE AND
PROMISE....WE WILL
have a technician out there on Saturday. Again...we wait. A technician
walks in, says
"Oh, I don't work on these...I'm only an instructor" and walks back out
the door.
Wait, we say...'who's going to fix this" and he says " Oh, I'll call
the regular
repair rep...he'll be out tonight. So I call BGE Home and speak to the
"duty manager"
who is your typical lousy customer service dead end guy.... the one who
is supposed to
get the irate calls and doesn't give a rat's ass about customer service.
He promises to
send a 'senior technician' out on Monday. Again someone has to be home
from 12 to 4. I
ask him if he see's ANYTHING wrong with the whole scenario. He says
"Oh, I'm not a
technician". This is BGE Home in Washington D.C. a somewhat major
city.

BGE Home has ONE telephone number for the entire operation.... so
corporate mid-level
management is well protected from their customer base.... sound familiar
???

Any help is appreciated...... if you live in Washington, D.C. and have
a good
service company please let me know. Secondly, is there someplace online
where
I can get a good service manual for the unit...provided I have a unit
number.... and
Thirdly what's a good logistics source for Bryant air conditioners ???

What signals should I be looking for in the low voltage circuit....there
are 5 legs on
the relay which is mounted onto a step down transformer.....probably 2
line input, 2
output and there is a 5th wire in the center of the relay.

Thanking you in advance !!!


Peter

PS... To the doom sayers... it's okay... I had years of experience of
troubleshooting
computer and aviation electronics.... so I won't fry, I won't try to
recharge the
high pressure side of the compressor and I promise to put all the screws
back in
the ceiling panel when finished. Did I miss anything ??? I shouldn't
have to be
doing this myself.....

OK, line at a time. Look for my inserted text.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Peter" wrote in message
...
Need a little help over here......

I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is
the compressor and
squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside.
The compressor pumps
freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the
cooled air into
ductwork.
CY: Little unusual, but what the heck.

A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the
wall unit.
Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated
by a transformer
and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both
units, but a
measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show
any voltage.
CY: The low voltage circuit is usually 18 gage wire. Rather small.



Any help is appreciated...... if you live in Washington, D.C. and
have a good
service company please let me know. Secondly, is there someplace
online where
I can get a good service manual for the unit...provided I have a unit
number....
CY:I don't know about the manuals. You could google, or check the
Bryant website.

and
Thirdly what's a good logistics source for Bryant air conditioners ???
CY: I live about half hour away from a Bryant parts house.

What signals should I be looking for in the low voltage circuit....
CY: Should be 24 VAC at the low power side of the Xformer. Should be
110 or 220 on the high voltage side of the Xformer.

there are 5 legs on
the relay which is mounted onto a step down transformer.....probably 2
line input, 2
output and there is a 5th wire in the center of the relay.
CY: Relay should have two coil wires, low power. Look again.

No 24V (no low voltage) coming off the terminals....... . Would
it do any good to
remove the relay and transformer to ohm them out ??? Is there
anyway to obtain
a replacement part ???
CY: Better to see if the Xformer is getting 110 VAC power.

I'm also thinking of trying to get a 24vac source to energize and
test the rest of the
circuitry, using one of the old telephone step down
transformers....low voltage low
current... any drawbacks to this method ??? (other than turning on
line voltage to
test).
CY: You'd need to take out the old Xformer while doing this. But
first, check to see if the 110 volt system is getting power. Very
likely the system doesnt have line power.


I'll be back there tomorrow....too hot to spend the night (condo's
suck up heat and
the windows aren't the best in the world). Any other answers or
thoughts are appreciated
!!
CY: Make sure the electrical line power is on. Probably 110 VAC for
the indoors, and 220 VAC for outdoors.

Radio Shack or Home Cheepo might have a suitable transformer.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. com...
Peter wrote:


No 24V (no low voltage) coming off the terminals....... . Would
it do any good to
remove the relay and transformer to ohm them out ??? Is there
anyway to obtain
a replacement part ???

See if there is 120V on the xfmr primary. If there is, Ohm out
the primary. The relay shouldn't be needed just to get 24V from the
xfmr. If no 120V on primary, work back.

A tel. xfmr won't have enough voltage. Big Box store might have
HVAC basic components like this.

Jim

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:04:58 -0400, Peter wrote:

There is a control diagram on one of the squirrel cage housings...trouble is it is covered
in dirt and all attempts to clean the dirt off just obliterates the diagram. This is
curious as the rest of the housing looks very clean and the unit itself looks very clean.
Just the diagram seems to be collecting dirt.

No 24V (no low voltage) coming off the terminals....... . Would it do any good to
remove the relay and transformer to ohm them out ??? Is there anyway to obtain
a replacement part ???

Absolutely. I'm biased against this part because it's the one that
failed 6 weeks after I moved in, when I had 3 people visiting from out
of town, to see my new home. A very hot July 4 weekned. (That failed
Saturday at noon. The water failed Saturday night, and the rest of
the electricity failed on Sunday. It was incredible. The AC hasn't
failed since, and I've never had a month when more than one of the
other two have failed since.)

I went to a HVAC supplier and the whole board was about 200 dollars.
They didn't sell the built-in xformer separately. But after I whined
a bit about spending all that money, they sold me just a transformer
for about 20. Too big to fit into the space on the circuit board, so
I mounted it elsewhere in the furnace. 23 years later, working fine.

But like they say, you don't have to go to an HVAC supply company for
a standard part like this.

I know there are amp and watt ratings but there weren't on the one I
was holding, and I just accepted what they gave me and figured it's
bound to be good electrically, because physically it was bigger than
the one it replaced. All other things being equal, the physical
dimensions ARE proportional to the electrical ratings.

I'm also thinking of trying to get a 24vac source to energize and test the rest of the
circuitry, using one of the old telephone step down transformers....low voltage low

I think I have two of those in sequence that I used in 1968 to play
games on my fraternity brothers. Substantially smaller than the one
that came with the furnace and even more than the one they gave me to
replace it.

current... any drawbacks to this method ??? (other than turning on line voltage to
test).


I'll be back there tomorrow....too hot to spend the night (condo's suck up heat and
the windows aren't the best in the world). Any other answers or thoughts are appreciated
!!

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:32:55 GMT, Speedy Jim wrote:

Peter wrote:

Need a little help over here......

I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the compressor and
squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The compressor pumps
freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled air into
ductwork.

A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall unit.
Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a transformer
and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units, but a
measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any voltage.



SNIP

Argh! I feel for you.

First, there should be a controls diagram *somewhere*, probably
at the ceiling unit.

Measure if there is 24V right at the xfmr terminals. Work from there.

Jim
ex-DC'er