Hello,

My wife noticed a "burning plastic" smell coming from an outlet in the
house that a cell phone charger was plugged into. I pulled out the
charger and it was hot as hell, as was the outlet. There is also
discoloration over the outlet from the heat I guess? I shut off the
breaker for it, and unscrewed things, and here's a picture of what it
looks like:

http://www.mannydog.net/outlet2.jpg

Im going to leave the circuit breaker off until i figure out what to
do. Is this a big deal? Should i just replace the outlet? or is my
house about to burn down?

Thanks
Steve

wrote:

Hello,

My wife noticed a "burning plastic" smell coming from an outlet in the
house that a cell phone charger was plugged into. I pulled out the
charger and it was hot as hell, as was the outlet. There is also
discoloration over the outlet from the heat I guess? I shut off the
breaker for it, and unscrewed things, and here's a picture of what it
looks like:

http://www.mannydog.net/outlet2.jpg

Im going to leave the circuit breaker off until i figure out what to
do. Is this a big deal? Should i just replace the outlet? or is my
house about to burn down?

Thanks
Steve


That outlet feeds another outlet downstream, looks like.
So, it probably wasn't the charger that overheated it,
but rather the other load. What else is not working
now that the circuit is off?

Best guess is that the screw terminals weren't tightened
properly and that caused the connections to over heat.

Replace the receptacle. BTW, I don't see a grounding wire
on this one...

Jim

Agree with Jim, also the wire leads should be longer and pinched around the
threaded part of the screw, whoever did this wiring did a sloppy job.

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. com...
wrote:

Hello,

My wife noticed a "burning plastic" smell coming from an outlet in the
house that a cell phone charger was plugged into. I pulled out the
charger and it was hot as hell, as was the outlet. There is also
discoloration over the outlet from the heat I guess? I shut off the
breaker for it, and unscrewed things, and here's a picture of what it
looks like:

http://www.mannydog.net/outlet2.jpg

Im going to leave the circuit breaker off until i figure out what to
do. Is this a big deal? Should i just replace the outlet? or is my
house about to burn down?

Thanks
Steve


That outlet feeds another outlet downstream, looks like.
So, it probably wasn't the charger that overheated it,
but rather the other load. What else is not working
now that the circuit is off?

Best guess is that the screw terminals weren't tightened
properly and that caused the connections to over heat.

Replace the receptacle. BTW, I don't see a grounding wire
on this one...

Jim

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello,

My wife noticed a "burning plastic" smell coming from an outlet in the
house that a cell phone charger was plugged into. I pulled out the
charger and it was hot as hell, as was the outlet. There is also
discoloration over the outlet from the heat I guess? I shut off the
breaker for it, and unscrewed things, and here's a picture of what it
looks like:

http://www.mannydog.net/outlet2.jpg

Im going to leave the circuit breaker off until i figure out what to
do. Is this a big deal? Should i just replace the outlet? or is my
house about to burn down?

Thanks
Steve



Yep it is a big deal. No way to tell from the picture if the charger was at
fault or the outlet was to blame. Looks like AL wiring, Ace hardware has the
best deal on small quanties of AL devices that I have found. My home is AL
as well.

Might be time to check your devices and look for the AL-CU rating on them.
Properly installed there is nothing wrong with AL. NOTICE I said properly
installed. When I moved into my home I checked all of the outlets and
replaced all of the switches, SO wanted rocker ones. Found a few that were
a tad loose. Gee installed in 1975 I am not surprised.

That outlet feeds another outlet downstream, looks like.
So, it probably wasn't the charger that overheated it,
but rather the other load. What else is not working
now that the circuit is off?

Best guess is that the screw terminals weren't tightened
properly and that caused the connections to over heat.

Replace the receptacle. BTW, I don't see a grounding wire
on this one

Jim,

Thanks for the response! The other load on that breaker is the
refrigerator. And as far as I can tell that's the only other thing
that went out with this breaker off. This kind of sucks cuz I have to
turn the breaker back on for the night unless I want all my food to
rot. I put the outlet back in and flipped the breaker back on. Think
this will be ok until I can swing by the hardware store tomorrow?

Thanks,
Steve

Yep it is a big deal. No way to tell from the picture if the charger was at
fault or the outlet was to blame. Looks like AL wiring, Ace hardware has the
best deal on small quanties of AL devices that I have found. My home is AL
as well.

Might be time to check your devices and look for the AL-CU rating on them.
Properly installed there is nothing wrong with AL. NOTICE I said properly
installed. When I moved into my home I checked all of the outlets and
replaced all of the switches, SO wanted rocker ones. Found a few that were
a tad loose. Gee installed in 1975 I am not surprised.

Yep its aluminum wiring. Could you please clarify "check your devices
and look for the AL-CU rating on them."? and what you mean when you
say "AL Devices"? I know next to nothing about this stuff.

Thanks!

wrote:
That outlet feeds another outlet downstream, looks like.
So, it probably wasn't the charger that overheated it,
but rather the other load. What else is not working
now that the circuit is off?

Best guess is that the screw terminals weren't tightened
properly and that caused the connections to over heat.

Replace the receptacle. BTW, I don't see a grounding wire
on this one

Jim,

Thanks for the response! The other load on that breaker is the
refrigerator. And as far as I can tell that's the only other thing
that went out with this breaker off. This kind of sucks cuz I have to
turn the breaker back on for the night unless I want all my food to
rot. I put the outlet back in and flipped the breaker back on. Think
this will be ok until I can swing by the hardware store tomorrow?

Thanks,
Steve


I would take the melted outlet out of the path.

Turn off the breaker.

Clean up or cut off & re-strip the wires.

Wire nut the wires (black to black) (white to white)

Turn the power back on, you should be good to go unitl you have time
replace the outlet.

cheers
Bob

Your wiring seems to be aluminium, check if your receptacle is CU/AL and add
a groud if possible.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello,

My wife noticed a "burning plastic" smell coming from an outlet in the
house that a cell phone charger was plugged into. I pulled out the
charger and it was hot as hell, as was the outlet. There is also
discoloration over the outlet from the heat I guess? I shut off the
breaker for it, and unscrewed things, and here's a picture of what it
looks like:

http://www.mannydog.net/outlet2.jpg

Im going to leave the circuit breaker off until i figure out what to
do. Is this a big deal? Should i just replace the outlet? or is my
house about to burn down?

Thanks
Steve

wrote:

Yep it is a big deal. No way to tell from the picture if the charger was at
fault or the outlet was to blame. Looks like AL wiring, Ace hardware has the
best deal on small quanties of AL devices that I have found. My home is AL
as well.

Might be time to check your devices and look for the AL-CU rating on them.
Properly installed there is nothing wrong with AL. NOTICE I said properly
installed. When I moved into my home I checked all of the outlets and
replaced all of the switches, SO wanted rocker ones. Found a few that were
a tad loose. Gee installed in 1975 I am not surprised.


Yep its aluminum wiring. Could you please clarify "check your devices
and look for the AL-CU rating on them."? and what you mean when you
say "AL Devices"? I know next to nothing about this stuff.

Thanks!


There is a good explanation he
http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum.htm
with links to more.

If indeed you have a home with aluminum wiring
you could be sitting on a serious problem.
Today's incident may just be a taste of events waiting to happen.
(I don't mean to sound alarmist.)

See:
http://chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/aluminum_wiring.htm

and GOOGLE: CO/ALR or Aluminum Wiring

Dig up all the info you can before making any rash decisions.

Jim

If indeed you have a home with aluminum wiring
you could be sitting on a serious problem.
Today's incident may just be a taste of events waiting to happen.
(I don't mean to sound alarmist.)

See:
http://chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/aluminum_wiring.htm

and GOOGLE: CO/ALR or Aluminum Wiring

Dig up all the info you can before making any rash decisions.

Jim

Thanks for the info, I will read up on it. FYI, with nothing plugged
into this outlet for a few hours now, it is not hot at all, so it only
appears to be getting hot when a load is attached to this outlet. Does
this tell us anything else?

I know for a fact I've got aluminum wiring... When I moved in, my real
estate agent recommended that I replace all switches and outlets with
CO/ALR ones. Of course I didn't do it. Would you folks recommend
this? Another friend of mine told me to leave well enough alone, and
that I could stir up more problems by replacing things.

bigger than a big deal: immediate dangerous electrical hazard due to
one or more of the items you mentioned: the refrigerator, the circuit
wiring, each outlet related to this circuit, and the circuit breaker
and its panel.

On 11 Apr 2006 18:15:54 -0700, "BobK207" wrote:


wrote:
That outlet feeds another outlet downstream, looks like.
So, it probably wasn't the charger that overheated it,
but rather the other load. What else is not working
now that the circuit is off?

Best guess is that the screw terminals weren't tightened
properly and that caused the connections to over heat.

Replace the receptacle. BTW, I don't see a grounding wire
on this one

Jim,

Thanks for the response! The other load on that breaker is the
refrigerator. And as far as I can tell that's the only other thing
that went out with this breaker off.

I am not an electrician, and I hope someone who knows more than I will
comment on this.

But the refrigerator and a 110 room air conditioner are the biggest
thigns plugged into a 110 outlet.

I think when you put this together again you should continue to use
wire nuts b to b and w to w, and add a short length from the wire nuts
to the receptacle in that box. Won't that cut down on the number of
connections that the current to the fridge has to go through??????

Now it has two, one at each screw, but then you'll only have one. Is
that fair to say guys??? Even though he'll have three wires in each
wire nut?

If so, should he use copper wire for the short length, and a
copper-designed receptacle?

Does he need special wire nuts for aluminum?

This kind of sucks cuz I have to
turn the breaker back on for the night unless I want all my food to
rot. I put the outlet back in and flipped the breaker back on. Think
this will be ok until I can swing by the hardware store tomorrow?

After an hour, I would put my hands on the fridge plug where it goes
into the wall. AFAIK, it shouldn't be warm at all. (But I guess even
if it is bad, it idn't cause the problem at this outlet.)

And on the receptacle. It shouldn'be warm at all.

Plug something in to the problem outlet, even if you don't turn it on.
Its plug prongs might conduct the heat from hot connections to the
plug better than you can feel it when you touch the receptacle.

If nothing is warm, then you can leave it on all night. If you have a
smoke detector. Check in the morning. If nothing is warm, you can
out.

Plug in the charger in another outlet. Does it go in or come out very
very easy. It's the loose connections that get hot. Leave the
charger plugged in for an hour. Check if it is hot in the other
outlet. If it is, well, I'd be surprised.

Thanks,
Steve


I would take the melted outlet out of the path.

Turn off the breaker.

Clean up or cut off & re-strip the wires.

Wire nut the wires (black to black) (white to white)

Turn the power back on, you should be good to go unitl you have time
replace the outlet.

cheers
Bob

Speedy Jim wrote:

wrote:

Yep it is a big deal. No way to tell from the picture if the charger
was at
fault or the outlet was to blame. Looks like AL wiring, Ace hardware
has the
best deal on small quanties of AL devices that I have found. My home
is AL
as well.

Might be time to check your devices and look for the AL-CU rating on
them.
Properly installed there is nothing wrong with AL. NOTICE I said
properly
installed. When I moved into my home I checked all of the outlets and
replaced all of the switches, SO wanted rocker ones. Found a few
that were
a tad loose. Gee installed in 1975 I am not surprised.



Yep its aluminum wiring. Could you please clarify "check your devices
and look for the AL-CU rating on them."? and what you mean when you
say "AL Devices"? I know next to nothing about this stuff.


Devices listed for use with aluminum wire are marked CO/ALR. The worst
devices have steel screws.

Thanks!


There is a good explanation he
http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum.htm
with links to more.


This site has the best information I have seen on aluminum wiring. Last
I looked most of it was derived from the Cosumer Product Safety
Commission which reportedly tried to force a recall.

The best link in the above site is
http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum/alreduce.htm
This is a paper based on extensive testing of aluminum connections for
the CPSC and gives a wide range of fixes for aluminum wiring. Note
particularly the advice to apply anti oxide paste to the wire and then
abrade it. Very specific on what to do and brands. If I had aluminum
wire I would probably wire nut a copper pigtail to devices.

If indeed you have a home with aluminum wiring
you could be sitting on a serious problem.
Today's incident may just be a taste of events waiting to happen.
(I don't mean to sound alarmist.)


Agree.

See:
http://chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/aluminum_wiring.htm

and GOOGLE: CO/ALR or Aluminum Wiring

Dig up all the info you can before making any rash decisions.

Jim

Another friend of mine told me to leave well enough alone, and
that I could stir up more problems by replacing things.

Your real estate agent was trying to keep the house from burning down,
and gave you a good hint. Your friend told you to just sit tight, since
your house is not on fire yet.

AL wiring (as you will or have seen from your googling) is tricky and
particular. You DO need special everything: special wire nuts, special
outlets, special switches, special installation procedures, special
precautions when mixing different metals, etc. And this DOES matter,
its not just an obscure code issue, or a marketing ploy, or whatever.

I don't have AL myself, so I don't know all what is involved. If you
think you are up for it, do your homework, then replace all the
switches, outlets, wire nuts, and everything else necessary, to get
everything to be safe. If you don't feel up to it, find an electrician
that knows AL to take a look through, make recommendations, then fix
eveything needing fixing.

As others have said, you might just have a few of the wrong type of
outlets, but otherwise properly-installed AL wiring. Or you might have
a real dangerous and extensive mess on your hands.

In article .com, wrote:

I know for a fact I've got aluminum wiring... When I moved in, my real
estate agent recommended that I replace all switches and outlets with
CO/ALR ones. Of course I didn't do it.

Why not? That was good advice.

Would you folks recommend this?

Absolutely. Using devices that are not rated for use with aluminum wire is
highly dangerous -- your roasted outlet is a prime example of what can go
wrong.

Another friend of mine told me to leave well enough alone, and
that I could stir up more problems by replacing things.

Your friend does not appear to be qualified to dispense electrical advice.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

mm wrote:
On 11 Apr 2006 18:15:54 -0700, "BobK207" wrote:

wrote:
That outlet feeds another outlet downstream, looks like.
So, it probably wasn't the charger that overheated it,
but rather the other load. What else is not working
now that the circuit is off?

Best guess is that the screw terminals weren't tightened
properly and that caused the connections to over heat.

Replace the receptacle. BTW, I don't see a grounding wire
on this one
Jim,

Thanks for the response! The other load on that breaker is the
refrigerator. And as far as I can tell that's the only other thing
that went out with this breaker off.

I am not an electrician, and I hope someone who knows more than I will
comment on this.

But the refrigerator and a 110 room air conditioner are the biggest
thigns plugged into a 110 outlet.

I think when you put this together again you should continue to use
wire nuts b to b and w to w, and add a short length from the wire nuts
to the receptacle in that box. Won't that cut down on the number of
connections that the current to the fridge has to go through??????

Now it has two, one at each screw, but then you'll only have one. Is
that fair to say guys??? Even though he'll have three wires in each
wire nut?

If so, should he use copper wire for the short length, and a
copper-designed receptacle?

Does he need special wire nuts for aluminum?

This kind of sucks cuz I have to
turn the breaker back on for the night unless I want all my food to
rot. I put the outlet back in and flipped the breaker back on. Think
this will be ok until I can swing by the hardware store tomorrow?

After an hour, I would put my hands on the fridge plug where it goes
into the wall. AFAIK, it shouldn't be warm at all. (But I guess even
if it is bad, it idn't cause the problem at this outlet.)

And on the receptacle. It shouldn'be warm at all.

Plug something in to the problem outlet, even if you don't turn it on.
Its plug prongs might conduct the heat from hot connections to the
plug better than you can feel it when you touch the receptacle.

If nothing is warm, then you can leave it on all night. If you have a
smoke detector. Check in the morning. If nothing is warm, you can
out.

Plug in the charger in another outlet. Does it go in or come out very
very easy. It's the loose connections that get hot. Leave the
charger plugged in for an hour. Check if it is hot in the other
outlet. If it is, well, I'd be surprised.

Thanks,
Steve

I would take the melted outlet out of the path.

Turn off the breaker.

Clean up or cut off & re-strip the wires.

Wire nut the wires (black to black) (white to white)

Turn the power back on, you should be good to go unitl you have time
replace the outlet.

cheers
Bob

MM - Some good thoughts.
putting b-b and w-w with a short tail to the outlet is good practice.
Its called a pig tail. I always do it if I have enough room in the box.
Then, if an outlet goes bad you will not be in the situation of the OP.

As for Aluminum. I did not notice that in the image. Good catch. There
are special considerations for Aluminum. I cant comment on those.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I got an electrician over here. Here was the problem: That was an
outlet rated for 15 amps, on a circuit rated for 20 amps (hence the
fridge being on the same circuit). It was getting too much power, so
it melted. He pigtailed b to b and w to w like you guys said, with a
copper wire coming off each, and put in a 20 amp outlet. Anyway, I'm
gonna have a prof. electrician replace all the outlets with CO/ALR
outlets.

Thanks for all of your responses here, I really appreciate it.

Steve


There is no difference between 15 & 20 amp receptacles. They are all 20 amp
internally, which is why the Code allows either on a 20 amp circuit. The 20
amp receptacle will accept either a 15 amp or 20 amp plug (with a "T"
configuration for the prongs).

From the looks of it, the terminal connections overheated, probably a result
of poor installation, aluminum wire and poor clamping pressure from the
screws. Did the electrician also confirm that the wire is properly sized for
a 20 amp circuit?


Ben MIller


--
Benjamin D. Miller, PE
B. MILLER ENGINEERING
www.bmillerengineering.com

Typically, aluminum wire requires one
gauge increase, i.e. 12 gauge for
15 amp circuit. So, if this was a 20
amp circuit, the size would have to
be larger than the normal 12 gauge ....
like 10 gauge. I doubt, from the
picture, if it was 10 gauge. I'll guess
that many "newer" electricians never
heard of aluminum house wiring and don't
know how to handle it properly.

Ben Miller wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I got an electrician over here. Here was the problem: That was an
outlet rated for 15 amps, on a circuit rated for 20 amps (hence the
fridge being on the same circuit). It was getting too much power, so
it melted. He pigtailed b to b and w to w like you guys said, with a
copper wire coming off each, and put in a 20 amp outlet. Anyway, I'm
gonna have a prof. electrician replace all the outlets with CO/ALR
outlets.

Thanks for all of your responses here, I really appreciate it.

Steve



There is no difference between 15 & 20 amp receptacles. They are all 20 amp
internally, which is why the Code allows either on a 20 amp circuit. The 20
amp receptacle will accept either a 15 amp or 20 amp plug (with a "T"
configuration for the prongs).

From the looks of it, the terminal connections overheated, probably a result
of poor installation, aluminum wire and poor clamping pressure from the
screws. Did the electrician also confirm that the wire is properly sized for
a 20 amp circuit?


Ben MIller

posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

It was getting too much power,

Oh boy!
--
My boss said I was dumb and apathetic.
I said I don't know and I don't care...

Tekkie

Yes, glad you have a licensed electrician involved.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

wrote in message
oups.com...
I got an electrician over here. Here was the problem: That was an
outlet rated for 15 amps, on a circuit rated for 20 amps (hence the
fridge being on the same circuit). It was getting too much power, so
it melted. He pigtailed b to b and w to w like you guys said, with a
copper wire coming off each, and put in a 20 amp outlet. Anyway, I'm
gonna have a prof. electrician replace all the outlets with CO/ALR
outlets.

Thanks for all of your responses here, I really appreciate it.

Steve

From that picture, looks a LOT like aluminum wiring. Call an
electrician.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello,

My wife noticed a "burning plastic" smell coming from an outlet in the
house that a cell phone charger was plugged into. I pulled out the
charger and it was hot as hell, as was the outlet. There is also
discoloration over the outlet from the heat I guess? I shut off the
breaker for it, and unscrewed things, and here's a picture of what it
looks like:

http://www.mannydog.net/outlet2.jpg

Im going to leave the circuit breaker off until i figure out what to
do. Is this a big deal? Should i just replace the outlet? or is my
house about to burn down?

Thanks
Steve

wrote:

As noted in another post, the most reliable info I have seen on aluminum
wiring fixes is at
http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum/alreduce.htm
As noted it is a "paper" based on on extensive research done for the CPSC.

As I see that you have gotten an electrician involved, you probably
don't need this info. But I thought that I would post in case there
are others out there with the same or a similar situation.

The concept of pigtailing is a recommended strategy for all connections
behind devices. IE. black to black with a short length to the device
connected with a wire nut. Same for whites and grounds.


Of the possible fixes for aluminum wire, if I had aluminum I would
probably use pigtails also. But the research indicated that if not done
properly pigtailing can increase problems.

NOTE: There are different configurations for connections behind
switches and light fixture boxes.

When dealing with aluminum wiring "AL" the manufacturers have designed
receptacles, switches, etc. to properly handle connections without
oxidizing. Oxidization looks like a powdery substance on the surface
of the wire (much like rust on a metal object). Electricity doesn't
flow through this oxidization well, and causes heat.


Aluminum is a very reactive material. Clean aluminum will almost
immediately form an oxide layer - which is clear (invisible). That is
what keeps the aluminum surface shiny. The oxide will be there unless
removed and oxygen contact is prevented. Aluminum oxide is an insulator
- electricity won't flow through it at all. Resistance is increased by
reducing metal-to-metal contact area. Basic to the fixes in the "paper"
is applying antioxide paste to the wire and then abrading it to remove
the oxide.

(Connections to large aluminum wire are reliable when done properly.
Recently I saw instructions from Ilsco, a major lug manufacturer, to
wire brush the wire (to remove oxide) when making a connection. I have
not looked at other manufacturers. But because connections to large
conductors deform the wire they can break through the oxide.)

To avoid this, always use devices rated for AL wire and when connecting
the wires with wire nuts use wirenuts rated for aluminum.


Far as I know only one wirenut - Ideal #65 - has been listed for use
with aluminum wires since the "new technology" about 1972. It appears to
be a standard wirenut with antioxide paste in it. The research for the
CPSC indicated this wirenut is no more reliable that other wirenuts used
with antioxide paste. The "paper" specifically does not like these wire
nuts because both the antioxide paste and the plastic shell of the
wirenut will burn. Specific brands are recommended in the "paper".

If you are pigtailing, you can use Copper Wire for the pigtail (which
allows you to connect to devices rated for copper only). However, the
connections at the pigtail need to be protected by a product call
anti-oxidant - Penetrox and No-Alox or the 2 most popular in my area.
This is available at most hardware stores and should be at all
electrical suppliers.

Remember, that when making these splices, use wirenuts rated for
aluminum "AL" wiring only. Fill the wirenut about 3/4 full with
anti-oxidant paste and then put onto wire being connected. If after
the wirenut is installed, there are any bits of exposed wire visible
not covered in anti-oxidant then put more into the cap to cover.


Research showed that wirenut connections made acording to manufacturers
recomendatioins and induatry standards can fail, hence the specific
installation recomendations. Failure can be from the existing oxide on
the wire. When the connection is made, the oxide may prevent most/all
wire-to-wire contact. The steel spring on the wirenut, however, cuts
through the wirenut and makes contact. A high percentage, or all, of the
current may take the path through just a few coils of the spring. The
spring, made of steel, can become red hot causing failure of the
conection, ignition of the paste or shell and a fire. There is a multi
screen slide show including this at
http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum/pl2p2.htm

For those without much experience with wiring, consult with a qualified
electrician to ensure that this is being done in a safe manner. The
big box stores usually have a couple on staff to answer questions, so
don't be afraid to ask, they are there to help.


Note that electricians don't necessarily know much about aluminum branch
circuit problems and their fixes and are unlikely to know of research on
the problem.

Remember Also, always turn off the breaker prior to working on
electrical circuits and test to make sure that the power has indeed
been turned off before proceeding with any such work.


Geez - why take away all the fun?

I hope this information helps and if anyone has questions, please
forward me an email, and I can try to help.

Play Safe!


bud--