My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several
revolutions to open or close?

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several
revolutions to open or close?
The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure.

"Abe" wrote in message
...
My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's
a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the
faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several
revolutions to open or close?
The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure.


OK. Thinking just of the cold water for the moment, the supply line is a
straight run from the meter to the kitchen, with branches picked off about
20 feet back for the bathroom. It takes a 90 degree bend upward to the
kitchen sink one floor above. When I replaced the faucet, I also replaced
the flexible supply lines because they looked worn, but the problem remains.
What's your next guess?

Abe wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several
revolutions to open or close?
The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure.

It is true that the type of valve has no bearing on the water pressure,
however it does have a bearing on flow rate which most people perceive
as pressure.

The ball valve type (1/4 turn lever, or some new knob types) provide a
straight through flow path that provides far less flow resistance than
the multi turn knob type where the water has to take typically two 90
degree turns. In short the 1/4 turn ball valve type are superior to the
multi turn type.

Pete C.

Didn't you just say 1 floor above? Perhaps that is the issue, if your
pressure at meter/ regulator is very low. If it's ok, I guess I'd
agree that you may have obstruction in flow.

The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a
clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart
and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil

Doug Kanter wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several
revolutions to open or close?



--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was installed,
and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has been checked in
the new one.

"Phil Munro" wrote in message
...
The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a
clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart
and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil

Doug Kanter wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure
in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen
faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I
installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line,
after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever
type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of
bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type
that requires several revolutions to open or close?

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

"Abe" wrote in message
...
My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's
a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the
faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several
revolutions to open or close?
The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure.


Half true.

Regardless of the amount of valve opening, Static pressure will be equal at
both sides of the valve when no water is flowing.

While the water is running, the Dynamic water pressure will be reduced by
the amount the valve is closed (impedance).

It's just like voltage across and current through a resistor.

Multi turn valves allow more control over dynamic pressure but have
reliability issues with being turned all the way off. Ball valves (lever or
knob) turn all the way off and on better but have less control in the middle

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Abe wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet.
It's a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the
faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom
but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires
several
revolutions to open or close?
The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure.

It is true that the type of valve has no bearing on the water pressure,
however it does have a bearing on flow rate which most people perceive
as pressure.

The valve does not affect the static pressure, but it sure does the dynamic
pressure. That is why the flow rate is lower. People's preceptions are
accurate here.

The ball valve type (1/4 turn lever, or some new knob types) provide a
straight through flow path that provides far less flow resistance than
the multi turn knob type where the water has to take typically two 90
degree turns. In short the 1/4 turn ball valve type are superior to the
multi turn type.

A full bore ball valve is better as you say; but a cheaper reduced ball
valve is probably inferior.

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Abe wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet.
It's a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the
faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom
but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn
90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires
several
revolutions to open or close?
The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure.

It is true that the type of valve has no bearing on the water pressure,
however it does have a bearing on flow rate which most people perceive
as pressure.

The valve does not affect the static pressure, but it sure does the
dynamic pressure. That is why the flow rate is lower. People's
preceptions are accurate here.

All I know is that if I stick a watering can under that faucet, it takes
twice as long to fill up, compared to using any other faucet in the house.
:-)

Assuming the valve and faucet are good then you have a restriction in the
pipe to the sink. Do you have galvinized steel pipes? I would expect
this to happen in that kind of plumbing eventually.

The 90 deg elbows seem to form the most rust inside from what I have seen
replacing my pipes for repairs. 50% rust fill in is typical of my old
pipes. Fortunatrely this house hasn't had any pinhole leaks yet. I do have
an interesting jackhammer like cavitation going on in a Tee near my kitchen
sink when I turn the hot on too much.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was
installed, and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has
been checked in the new one.

"Phil Munro" wrote in message
...
The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a
clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart
and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil

Doug Kanter wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure
in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen
faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I
installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line,
after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the
lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any
sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the
knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close?

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

All copper, from meter to sink, except for a new set of flexible hoses for
the last 18". I have steel drain pipes for the bathroom. I don't even wanna
talk about those - I already have a headache.

"PipeDown" wrote in message
ink.net...
Assuming the valve and faucet are good then you have a restriction in the
pipe to the sink. Do you have galvinized steel pipes? I would expect
this to happen in that kind of plumbing eventually.

The 90 deg elbows seem to form the most rust inside from what I have seen
replacing my pipes for repairs. 50% rust fill in is typical of my old
pipes. Fortunatrely this house hasn't had any pinhole leaks yet. I do
have an interesting jackhammer like cavitation going on in a Tee near my
kitchen sink when I turn the hot on too much.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was
installed, and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has
been checked in the new one.

"Phil Munro" wrote in message
...
The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a
clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart
and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil

Doug Kanter wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure
in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen
faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I
installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply
line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs -
the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have
any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to
the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close?

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

I'm stumped unless the new hoses are the "flood safe" kind. In which case
they may have tripped and you need to briefly remove them from the valve to
reset.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news
All copper, from meter to sink, except for a new set of flexible hoses for
the last 18". I have steel drain pipes for the bathroom. I don't even
wanna talk about those - I already have a headache.

"PipeDown" wrote in message
ink.net...
Assuming the valve and faucet are good then you have a restriction in the
pipe to the sink. Do you have galvinized steel pipes? I would expect
this to happen in that kind of plumbing eventually.

The 90 deg elbows seem to form the most rust inside from what I have seen
replacing my pipes for repairs. 50% rust fill in is typical of my old
pipes. Fortunatrely this house hasn't had any pinhole leaks yet. I do
have an interesting jackhammer like cavitation going on in a Tee near my
kitchen sink when I turn the hot on too much.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was
installed, and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has
been checked in the new one.

"Phil Munro" wrote in message
...
The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a
clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart
and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil

Doug Kanter wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water
pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the
kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed
before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the
supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are
shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does
that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure,
as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open
or close?

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

Newer faucets are required by law to limit MAX flow. I would call moen
and ask them. There MIGHT be a quick easy fix like removing a flow
restrictor in a shower head.

Beyond that try connecting a temp hose at the sink bypassing the faucet
and check that.

some of those flexible hoses have a very smaii inside dioameter, that
may be contribuiting

wrote in message
oups.com...
Newer faucets are required by law to limit MAX flow. I would call moen
and ask them. There MIGHT be a quick easy fix like removing a flow
restrictor in a shower head.

Beyond that try connecting a temp hose at the sink bypassing the faucet
and check that.

some of those flexible hoses have a very smaii inside dioameter, that
may be contribuiting


Side note: After my divorce, I was in an apartment for 2-1/2 years. It drove
me crazy. I kept telling friends "I gotta get outta here - I need a garden,
and I like working on my house!" Be careful what you ask for, ya know?

Doug Kanter wrote:
My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several
revolutions to open or close?


Hi,
City water? Well water? In my house regulated pressure is 60 psi. No
such problem. Wonder why you're suspecting the shut off valve? Maybe
you don't have high enough pressure to begin with.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:_JjUf.171183$sa3.76931@pd7tw1no...
Doug Kanter wrote:
My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure
in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen
faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I
installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line,
after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever
type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of
bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type
that requires several revolutions to open or close?
Hi,
City water? Well water? In my house regulated pressure is 60 psi. No such
problem. Wonder why you're suspecting the shut off valve? Maybe
you don't have high enough pressure to begin with.

City water. 120 lbs before regulator, 55 after.

PipeDown wrote:
I'm stumped unless the new hoses are the "flood safe" kind.

Just had to replace one of those 'flood safe" connectors with another
non-flood safe flexible connectors on the toilet. It seems like it got
a bit of dirt in it, caused some water hammering, and then slammed
shut. I was surprised how fast the toilet filled with the regular flex
connector. Apparently, the flood safe valve, or the washers with small
holes that came with it, limited the rate of flow.

Lena

Doug Kanter wrote:
[...]
All I know is that if I stick a watering can under that faucet, it takes
twice as long to fill up, compared to using any other faucet in the house.
:-)


Doug, if you hooked up a hose to the shut off valve under the sink, how
long will it take to fill the can? This will eliminate the new fixture
and start locating the trouble. Could be there's a restriction in the
water pipe between your bathroom and kitchen. If perhaps a upstream
valve decided to come apart some time ago, a piece could be caught in a
downstream elbow or at the shut off valve itself. How easy would it be
to replace the shut off valve. Do you have the same flow rate problem
with hot water too?

--
Grandpa

What is that dripping from my fingers?
Why it looks like time.

"Grandpa" wrote in message
news:MskUf.3630$4N1.2195@trnddc06...
Doug Kanter wrote:
[...]
All I know is that if I stick a watering can under that faucet, it takes
twice as long to fill up, compared to using any other faucet in the
house. :-)
Doug, if you hooked up a hose to the shut off valve under the sink, how
long will it take to fill the can? This will eliminate the new fixture and
start locating the trouble. Could be there's a restriction in the water
pipe between your bathroom and kitchen. If perhaps a upstream valve
decided to come apart some time ago, a piece could be caught in a
downstream elbow or at the shut off valve itself. How easy would it be to
replace the shut off valve. Do you have the same flow rate problem with
hot water too?

--
Grandpa

The problem is about equal for hot & cold. And, you're right about replacing
the shutoff valve. They're what...two bucks? I already own the soldering
equipment. I may do that this weekend.

try turning your pressure up just as a experiment to 80 pounds

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Grandpa" wrote in message
news:MskUf.3630$4N1.2195@trnddc06...

Doug Kanter wrote:

[...]
All I know is that if I stick a watering can under that faucet, it takes
twice as long to fill up, compared to using any other faucet in the
house. :-)

Doug, if you hooked up a hose to the shut off valve under the sink, how
long will it take to fill the can? This will eliminate the new fixture and
start locating the trouble. Could be there's a restriction in the water
pipe between your bathroom and kitchen. If perhaps a upstream valve
decided to come apart some time ago, a piece could be caught in a
downstream elbow or at the shut off valve itself. How easy would it be to
replace the shut off valve. Do you have the same flow rate problem with
hot water too?

--
Grandpa


The problem is about equal for hot & cold. And, you're right about replacing
the shutoff valve. They're what...two bucks? I already own the soldering
equipment. I may do that this weekend.


If you're going to replace them, put in the ball valves. They are only
there to turn it on or off, so you might as well get the maximum flow.
You'll regulate the actual flow at the faucet. I'll just bet you find
some blockage upstream of the valves, if not at the valve itself. IME,
even the water company doing some repairs can introduce contaminates
into the water supply, and its just your "bad luck."

--
Grandpa

What is that dripping from my fingers?
Why it looks like time.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Grandpa" wrote in message
news:MskUf.3630$4N1.2195@trnddc06...
Doug Kanter wrote:
[...]
All I know is that if I stick a watering can under that faucet, it takes
twice as long to fill up, compared to using any other faucet in the
house. :-)
Doug, if you hooked up a hose to the shut off valve under the sink, how
long will it take to fill the can? This will eliminate the new fixture
and start locating the trouble. Could be there's a restriction in the
water pipe between your bathroom and kitchen. If perhaps a upstream valve
decided to come apart some time ago, a piece could be caught in a
downstream elbow or at the shut off valve itself. How easy would it be to
replace the shut off valve. Do you have the same flow rate problem with
hot water too?

--
Grandpa

The problem is about equal for hot & cold. And, you're right about
replacing the shutoff valve. They're what...two bucks? I already own the
soldering equipment. I may do that this weekend.


Solder a male 1/2" threaded nipple to the end or use a drop ear with a close
nipple. Most valves come with 1/2" female threads so you can change in the
future without soldering. Don't forget to flush the pipe while the valve is
removed. If still slow, try probing with a bit of #14 copper wire

And they don't leak like the knob ones do after being turned off and back on
when they've been undisturbed for several years


"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Abe wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the
bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet.
It's a
brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the
faucet.
I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom
but
before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn
90
degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for
messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires
several
revolutions to open or close?
The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure.

It is true that the type of valve has no bearing on the water pressure,
however it does have a bearing on flow rate which most people perceive
as pressure.

The ball valve type (1/4 turn lever, or some new knob types) provide a
straight through flow path that provides far less flow resistance than
the multi turn knob type where the water has to take typically two 90
degree turns. In short the 1/4 turn ball valve type are superior to the
multi turn type.

Pete C.

Another thought, if the faucet does not purposely have a built-in
flow limiter, maybe you have a problem like I had with a Delta faucet.
It had a diverter thingy to supply the hose most of the flow when flow
to the hose was started. Removing that produced more flow through the
faucet itself, although it obviously cut down the hose flow. --Phil

Doug Kanter wrote:
No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was installed,
and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has been checked in
the new one.

"Phil Munro" wrote in message
...

The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a
clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart
and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil

Doug Kanter wrote:

My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure
in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen
faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I
installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line,
after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever
type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of
bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type
that requires several revolutions to open or close?
--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

No, quite the opposite actually. Are there service valves under the
kitchen sink? I'd look to them to be falling apart inside if they are not
the quarter turn kind. The lever "ball" valves you refer to are the
absolute best kind to have anywhere in the system.

--
Steve Barker


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes
first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in
the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet.
It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the
faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the
bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that
you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad
reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that
requires several revolutions to open or close?

More than likely the water lines in the home are to small. The only
unpractical solution is to replace all the water lines and fittings to
larger sizes.
This is the problems in most new homes, more economy, cheaper
construction.

Master Ground Water Contractor
Porky Cutter

"Porky" wrote in message
ups.com...
More than likely the water lines in the home are to small. The only
unpractical solution is to replace all the water lines and fittings to
larger sizes.
This is the problems in most new homes, more economy, cheaper
construction.

Master Ground Water Contractor
Porky Cutter


What's the right size pipe, if I lost my mind one day and starting attacking
my pipes because I had nothing better to do at the moment?

Don't waste your time! Supply line is the problem. . .too small.

Porky Cutter, MGWC
Master Ground Water Consultant

A minimum of 1/2" but personally I like 3/4" lines. Usually the line
coming in from the meter is 1" to 1-1/4". Why does the builder install
3/8" (or smaller lines) in the home. Because it's cheaper.

Search Google for "Porky Cutter" for more about Porky!

Porky Cutter, MGWC

"Porky" wrote in message
oups.com...
A minimum of 1/2" but personally I like 3/4" lines. Usually the line
coming in from the meter is 1" to 1-1/4". Why does the builder install
3/8" (or smaller lines) in the home. Because it's cheaper.

Search Google for "Porky Cutter" for more about Porky!

Porky Cutter, MGWC


But, the pressure's fine in the bathroom. The next stop is the kitchen,
which is just 18 feet more pipe, in terms of distance. And, my outside hose
faucet has loads of pressure, and the longest pipe run (from the meter). All
the same size pipe.