Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first,
then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure. |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
"Abe" wrote in message ... My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure. OK. Thinking just of the cold water for the moment, the supply line is a straight run from the meter to the kitchen, with branches picked off about 20 feet back for the bathroom. It takes a 90 degree bend upward to the kitchen sink one floor above. When I replaced the faucet, I also replaced the flexible supply lines because they looked worn, but the problem remains. What's your next guess? |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
Abe wrote:
My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure. It is true that the type of valve has no bearing on the water pressure, however it does have a bearing on flow rate which most people perceive as pressure. The ball valve type (1/4 turn lever, or some new knob types) provide a straight through flow path that provides far less flow resistance than the multi turn knob type where the water has to take typically two 90 degree turns. In short the 1/4 turn ball valve type are superior to the multi turn type. Pete C. |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
Didn't you just say 1 floor above? Perhaps that is the issue, if your
pressure at meter/ regulator is very low. If it's ok, I guess I'd agree that you may have obstruction in flow. |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
"Pete C." wrote in message ... Abe wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure. It is true that the type of valve has no bearing on the water pressure, however it does have a bearing on flow rate which most people perceive as pressure. The valve does not affect the static pressure, but it sure does the dynamic pressure. That is why the flow rate is lower. People's preceptions are accurate here. The ball valve type (1/4 turn lever, or some new knob types) provide a straight through flow path that provides far less flow resistance than the multi turn knob type where the water has to take typically two 90 degree turns. In short the 1/4 turn ball valve type are superior to the multi turn type. A full bore ball valve is better as you say; but a cheaper reduced ball valve is probably inferior. |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
"Toller" wrote in message
... "Pete C." wrote in message ... Abe wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure. It is true that the type of valve has no bearing on the water pressure, however it does have a bearing on flow rate which most people perceive as pressure. The valve does not affect the static pressure, but it sure does the dynamic pressure. That is why the flow rate is lower. People's preceptions are accurate here. All I know is that if I stick a watering can under that faucet, it takes twice as long to fill up, compared to using any other faucet in the house. :-) |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
Doug Kanter wrote:
[...] All I know is that if I stick a watering can under that faucet, it takes twice as long to fill up, compared to using any other faucet in the house. :-) Doug, if you hooked up a hose to the shut off valve under the sink, how long will it take to fill the can? This will eliminate the new fixture and start locating the trouble. Could be there's a restriction in the water pipe between your bathroom and kitchen. If perhaps a upstream valve decided to come apart some time ago, a piece could be caught in a downstream elbow or at the shut off valve itself. How easy would it be to replace the shut off valve. Do you have the same flow rate problem with hot water too? -- Grandpa What is that dripping from my fingers? Why it looks like time. |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
And they don't leak like the knob ones do after being turned off and back on
when they've been undisturbed for several years "Pete C." wrote in message ... Abe wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure. It is true that the type of valve has no bearing on the water pressure, however it does have a bearing on flow rate which most people perceive as pressure. The ball valve type (1/4 turn lever, or some new knob types) provide a straight through flow path that provides far less flow resistance than the multi turn knob type where the water has to take typically two 90 degree turns. In short the 1/4 turn ball valve type are superior to the multi turn type. Pete C. |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
"Abe" wrote in message ... My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? The type of shutoff has no bearing on pressure. Half true. Regardless of the amount of valve opening, Static pressure will be equal at both sides of the valve when no water is flowing. While the water is running, the Dynamic water pressure will be reduced by the amount the valve is closed (impedance). It's just like voltage across and current through a resistor. Multi turn valves allow more control over dynamic pressure but have reliability issues with being turned all the way off. Ball valves (lever or knob) turn all the way off and on better but have less control in the middle |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a
clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil Doug Kanter wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? -- Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin Youngstown State University Youngstown, Ohio 44555 |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was installed,
and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has been checked in the new one. "Phil Munro" wrote in message ... The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil Doug Kanter wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? -- Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin Youngstown State University Youngstown, Ohio 44555 |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
Assuming the valve and faucet are good then you have a restriction in the
pipe to the sink. Do you have galvinized steel pipes? I would expect this to happen in that kind of plumbing eventually. The 90 deg elbows seem to form the most rust inside from what I have seen replacing my pipes for repairs. 50% rust fill in is typical of my old pipes. Fortunatrely this house hasn't had any pinhole leaks yet. I do have an interesting jackhammer like cavitation going on in a Tee near my kitchen sink when I turn the hot on too much. "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was installed, and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has been checked in the new one. "Phil Munro" wrote in message ... The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil Doug Kanter wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? -- Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin Youngstown State University Youngstown, Ohio 44555 |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
All copper, from meter to sink, except for a new set of flexible hoses for
the last 18". I have steel drain pipes for the bathroom. I don't even wanna talk about those - I already have a headache. "PipeDown" wrote in message ink.net... Assuming the valve and faucet are good then you have a restriction in the pipe to the sink. Do you have galvinized steel pipes? I would expect this to happen in that kind of plumbing eventually. The 90 deg elbows seem to form the most rust inside from what I have seen replacing my pipes for repairs. 50% rust fill in is typical of my old pipes. Fortunatrely this house hasn't had any pinhole leaks yet. I do have an interesting jackhammer like cavitation going on in a Tee near my kitchen sink when I turn the hot on too much. "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was installed, and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has been checked in the new one. "Phil Munro" wrote in message ... The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil Doug Kanter wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? -- Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin Youngstown State University Youngstown, Ohio 44555 |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
I'm stumped unless the new hoses are the "flood safe" kind. In which case
they may have tripped and you need to briefly remove them from the valve to reset. "Doug Kanter" wrote in message news All copper, from meter to sink, except for a new set of flexible hoses for the last 18". I have steel drain pipes for the bathroom. I don't even wanna talk about those - I already have a headache. "PipeDown" wrote in message ink.net... Assuming the valve and faucet are good then you have a restriction in the pipe to the sink. Do you have galvinized steel pipes? I would expect this to happen in that kind of plumbing eventually. The 90 deg elbows seem to form the most rust inside from what I have seen replacing my pipes for repairs. 50% rust fill in is typical of my old pipes. Fortunatrely this house hasn't had any pinhole leaks yet. I do have an interesting jackhammer like cavitation going on in a Tee near my kitchen sink when I turn the hot on too much. "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was installed, and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has been checked in the new one. "Phil Munro" wrote in message ... The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil Doug Kanter wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? -- Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin Youngstown State University Youngstown, Ohio 44555 |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
Newer faucets are required by law to limit MAX flow. I would call moen
and ask them. There MIGHT be a quick easy fix like removing a flow restrictor in a shower head. Beyond that try connecting a temp hose at the sink bypassing the faucet and check that. some of those flexible hoses have a very smaii inside dioameter, that may be contribuiting |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
Another thought, if the faucet does not purposely have a built-in
flow limiter, maybe you have a problem like I had with a Delta faucet. It had a diverter thingy to supply the hose most of the flow when flow to the hose was started. Removing that produced more flow through the faucet itself, although it obviously cut down the hose flow. --Phil Doug Kanter wrote: No. Brand new faucet. The problem existed from the moment it was installed, and the previous faucet had the same problem. The screen has been checked in the new one. "Phil Munro" wrote in message ... The ball valves you have are the best for flow. Probably you have a clogged up aerator screen (on the end of the faucet). Take it apart and clean it. That may solve your problem. --Phil Doug Kanter wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? -- Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin Youngstown State University Youngstown, Ohio 44555 |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
Doug Kanter wrote:
My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? Hi, City water? Well water? In my house regulated pressure is 60 psi. No such problem. Wonder why you're suspecting the shut off valve? Maybe you don't have high enough pressure to begin with. |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message news:_JjUf.171183$sa3.76931@pd7tw1no... Doug Kanter wrote: My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? Hi, City water? Well water? In my house regulated pressure is 60 psi. No such problem. Wonder why you're suspecting the shut off valve? Maybe you don't have high enough pressure to begin with. City water. 120 lbs before regulator, 55 after. |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
try turning your pressure up just as a experiment to 80 pounds
|
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Water Shutoffs: Knob vs Lever
No, quite the opposite actually. Are there service valves under the
kitchen sink? I'd look to them to be falling apart inside if they are not the quarter turn kind. The lever "ball" valves you refer to are the absolute best kind to have anywhere in the system. -- Steve Barker "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... My kitchen sink is at the end of the water supply run. Bath tub comes first, then bathroom sink, and finally, the kitchen. The water pressure in the bathroom is fine, but it's bordering on anemic at the kitchen faucet. It's a brand new Moen, and the same problem existed before I installed the faucet. I wonder if the reason is that in the supply line, after the bathroom but before the kitchen, there are shutoffs - the lever type that you turn 90 degrees to operate. Does that type have any sort of bad reputation for messing with pressure, as compared to the knob type that requires several revolutions to open or close? |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Salt content of softened water | Home Repair | |||
water cooler, water coolers, water dispenser, water dispensers,bottleless water cooler,bottleless water coolers,bottleless water dispenser,bottleless water dispensers | UK diy | |||
The #1 rated home water filter in America Aquasana AQ-4000 | Home Repair | |||
Heat banks (again!) | UK diy |