Hi All,

Due to the high costs of gas this winter I am considering changing to
all electric on my stove and mainly heating unit.

Do you think this is a good idea ????

J

Does it get below freezing for much of the winter, where you live ?
What's the cost of electric and gas there ?

In my opiniion, yes. My reasoning is that gas is going to continue to
be a scares product in the future. Electricity will naturally increase
in cost also but not to the level of hydocabon fuels. Most electricity
is producedby either atomic,water or coal and all of those are very
much available. Therefore electriic should remain at a fair cost level.
I live in Tennesse in a mobile home, all electric, Highest bill this
winter $125.00. What was yours?

jack

"Joey" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

Due to the high costs of gas this winter I am considering changing to
all electric on my stove and mainly heating unit.

Do you think this is a good idea ????

J

With out knowing the cost of each fuel, and a host of other factors there no
one could possibly GUESS if it was a good idea or not.

wrote:
In my opiniion, yes. My reasoning is that gas is going to continue to
be a scares product in the future. Electricity will naturally increase
in cost also but not to the level of hydocabon fuels. Most electricity
is producedby either atomic,water or coal and all of those are very
much available.

Coal - 49.8%
Nuclear - 19.9%
Natural Gas - 17.9%
Hydroelectric - 6.5%
Sunbeams - 2.3%


Therefore electriic should remain at a fair cost
level. I live in Tennesse in a mobile home, all electric, Highest
bill this winter $125.00. What was yours?

Do you get power from the socialist TVA?

"Joey" wrote in message

Due to the high costs of gas this winter I am considering changing to all
electric on my stove and mainly heating unit.

Do you think this is a good idea ????

J

Probably not.

The cost of the change over, especially for a stove, may be far more than
the potential savings. Gas went up, but electric has to in most areas. We
have 20% increase. Your stove probably uses $100 of gas in a year and a
replacement will be $500 to $100 including wiring. You may save $20 a year.
Rather poor payback.

Joey wrote:
Hi All,

Due to the high costs of gas this winter I am considering changing to
all electric on my stove and mainly heating unit.

Do you think this is a good idea ????

J

You need to start by checking out local cost of gas and electric.

98.48% if the time you will find that even at the highest price of gas
last winter (around here it came down in January and further down in
February) gas is still cheaper for heat than electric. The fact is
electric is generated by gas in may parts of the country. Electric prices
have also been going up.

Now if you add in the cost of new equipment, it is almost certain you
will end up paying more not less.

Take a deep breath and say to yourself, I know prices are going up and
that I will pay more for heating. I will promise myself that I will do all
that I can to conserve all forms of energy. OK breath and move on. :-)

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:40:14 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:



Therefore electriic should remain at a fair cost
level. I live in Tennesse in a mobile home, all electric, Highest
bill this winter $125.00. What was yours?

Do you get power from the socialist TVA?


Why would the TVA be "socialist" ?
rj

You MUST remember lots of electric is generated by burning gas, or
nuclear. both of these are high cost and rising. just last sunday I saw
a article that nationwide electric rates will soar this summer.

If you go ahead and convert check just the costs for rewiring
Probably a new service entrance, new wiring for stove and furnace, what
were your plans for your hot water heater?

Figure on DOUBLING the size of the tank because electric is so poor at
heating water and costly too. If you live in a hard water area expect
to replace the electric heating elements every few years as they
corrode. a real pain in butt...

Consertively all this will probably cost you $10,000

You would be far better off investing that in a more efficent gas
furnace, insulation, condensing hot water tank and things like
caulking. get your home pressure tested looking for leaks. most of
these last a lifetime and will pay off no matter what heat you use.

heck you could get one of those outdoor furnaces that burn wood they
move the heat indoors in a super insulated pipe.

the trouble is the cost of firewood.

I have a friend, his family used to work all summer cutting hauling and
moving firewood bragged about the big savings

Till I asked how many hours of work this was in comparison the cost of
gas.

Their efforts were saving them about $2.50 per hour

They would of been better off working a minimum wage job!

today they still burn some wood for the cozy feeling but quit trying to
heat their home.

the economies of scale by big plants and infrastructure overwhelm
individuals ability to do things...

wrote:
You MUST remember lots of electric is generated by burning gas, or
nuclear. both of these are high cost and rising. just last sunday I saw
a article that nationwide electric rates will soar this summer.

If you go ahead and convert check just the costs for rewiring
Probably a new service entrance, new wiring for stove and furnace, what
were your plans for your hot water heater?

Figure on DOUBLING the size of the tank because electric is so poor at
heating water and costly too. If you live in a hard water area expect
to replace the electric heating elements every few years as they
corrode. a real pain in butt...

Consertively all this will probably cost you $10,000

You would be far better off investing that in a more efficent gas
furnace, insulation, condensing hot water tank and things like
caulking. get your home pressure tested looking for leaks. most of
these last a lifetime and will pay off no matter what heat you use.

heck you could get one of those outdoor furnaces that burn wood they
move the heat indoors in a super insulated pipe.

the trouble is the cost of firewood.

I have a friend, his family used to work all summer cutting hauling and
moving firewood bragged about the big savings

Till I asked how many hours of work this was in comparison the cost of
gas.

Their efforts were saving them about $2.50 per hour

They would of been better off working a minimum wage job!

today they still burn some wood for the cozy feeling but quit trying to
heat their home.

the economies of scale by big plants and infrastructure overwhelm
individuals ability to do things...



What about the loss of energy when transmitting through electrical
cables? Vs. gas which I don't believe looses mcuh energy in its
transmission?


--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

wrote:
You MUST remember lots of electric is generated by burning gas, or
nuclear. both of these are high cost and rising. just last sunday I saw
a article that nationwide electric rates will soar this summer.

Nuclear is not high cost, nor is it rising particularly fast, certainly
nowhere near the increase we have seen in oil and natural gas the last
couple years. The overall cost of nuclear is about the same as coal.

Here in NJ, the owners of Oyster Creek are desperately trying to get
that nuke relicensed for another 20 years because it is a very cost
effective way of generating electricity. That is also why France gets
over half of it's electricity from nuclear power.


As for changing to electric for a range and heat, in most of the
country, that would be foolish. Electric heat is generally the most
expensive way of heating. As for a range, the amount of energy
difference is not going to make that big of a difference to make it
worthwhile. I'd be very surprised if electric was cheaper than gas.
Personally, I prefer a gas range and an electric oven for the way they
perform, not the price.





If you go ahead and convert check just the costs for rewiring
Probably a new service entrance, new wiring for stove and furnace, what
were your plans for your hot water heater?

Figure on DOUBLING the size of the tank because electric is so poor at
heating water and costly too. If you live in a hard water area expect
to replace the electric heating elements every few years as they
corrode. a real pain in butt...

Consertively all this will probably cost you $10,000

You would be far better off investing that in a more efficent gas
furnace, insulation, condensing hot water tank and things like
caulking. get your home pressure tested looking for leaks. most of
these last a lifetime and will pay off no matter what heat you use.

heck you could get one of those outdoor furnaces that burn wood they
move the heat indoors in a super insulated pipe.

the trouble is the cost of firewood.

I have a friend, his family used to work all summer cutting hauling and
moving firewood bragged about the big savings

Till I asked how many hours of work this was in comparison the cost of
gas.

Their efforts were saving them about $2.50 per hour

They would of been better off working a minimum wage job!

today they still burn some wood for the cozy feeling but quit trying to
heat their home.

the economies of scale by big plants and infrastructure overwhelm
individuals ability to do things...

On 10 Mar 2006 06:40:45 -0800, wrote:


Here in NJ, the owners of Oyster Creek are desperately trying to get
that nuke relicensed for another 20 years because it is a very cost
effective way of generating electricity. That is also why France gets
over half of it's electricity from nuclear power.

They say that a third of the nuclear power generated in this country
uses radioactive fuels that come from disassembling Soviet bombs. I
find this whole notion and the percentage amazing.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Joey" wrote in message

Due to the high costs of gas this winter I am considering changing to all
electric on my stove and mainly heating unit.

Do you think this is a good idea ????

J


Probably not.

The cost of the change over, especially for a stove, may be far more than
the potential savings. Gas went up, but electric has to in most areas. We
have 20% increase. Your stove probably uses $100 of gas in a year and a
replacement will be $500 to $100 including wiring. You may save $20 a year.
Rather poor payback.


Edwin,

The stove it not really the issue, it's just if I do away with gas that
has to be changed out. Heating is the issue and my bills this winter
have doubled--ouch.

J

wrote:

Does it get below freezing for much of the winter, where you live ?
What's the cost of electric and gas there ?


It usually gets below freezing about 20-30 days out of the year. Not
sure of prices but the gas as compared to last winter has doubled but
not electric.

J

wrote:

In my opiniion, yes. My reasoning is that gas is going to continue to
be a scares product in the future. Electricity will naturally increase
in cost also but not to the level of hydocabon fuels. Most electricity
is producedby either atomic,water or coal and all of those are very
much available. Therefore electriic should remain at a fair cost level.
I live in Tennesse in a mobile home, all electric, Highest bill this
winter $125.00. What was yours?

jack


Jack,

I'm in SW Georgia and my last bill was $275.00, more than half of that
was just gas. The electric has not risen that much from last year, only
the gas.

J

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Joey wrote:

Hi All,

Due to the high costs of gas this winter I am considering changing to
all electric on my stove and mainly heating unit.

Do you think this is a good idea ????

J


You need to start by checking out local cost of gas and electric.

98.48% if the time you will find that even at the highest price of gas
last winter (around here it came down in January and further down in
February) gas is still cheaper for heat than electric. The fact is
electric is generated by gas in may parts of the country. Electric prices
have also been going up.

Now if you add in the cost of new equipment, it is almost certain you
will end up paying more not less.

Take a deep breath and say to yourself, I know prices are going up and
that I will pay more for heating. I will promise myself that I will do all
that I can to conserve all forms of energy. OK breath and move on. :-)

But Joseph, I've already been doing that. I would hate to think how
much higher my last bill ($275) would have been had I not conserved. I
even have the programmable thermostat. Considering gas has already
doubled in cost and electric has slightly increased, what do you think
next year will be like ?

J

Joey wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Joey wrote:

Hi All,

Due to the high costs of gas this winter I am considering changing to
all electric on my stove and mainly heating unit.

Do you think this is a good idea ????

J


You need to start by checking out local cost of gas and electric.

98.48% if the time you will find that even at the highest price
of gas last winter (around here it came down in January and further
down in February) gas is still cheaper for heat than electric. The
fact is electric is generated by gas in may parts of the country.
Electric prices have also been going up.

Now if you add in the cost of new equipment, it is almost
certain you will end up paying more not less.

Take a deep breath and say to yourself, I know prices are going
up and that I will pay more for heating. I will promise myself that
I will do all that I can to conserve all forms of energy. OK breath
and move on. :-)
But Joseph, I've already been doing that. I would hate to think how
much higher my last bill ($275) would have been had I not conserved. I
even have the programmable thermostat. Considering gas has already
doubled in cost and electric has slightly increased, what do you think
next year will be like ?

J

Bad..

Electric vs gas prices vary greatly around the world and within
different countries. I did not check the facts locally, but I believe they
both went up about an equal % this year. The difference is the electric
went much as predicted the gas went up less than predicted. Your mileage
may vary.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Joey wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Joey" wrote in message

Due to the high costs of gas this winter I am considering changing
to all electric on my stove and mainly heating unit.

Do you think this is a good idea ????

J


Probably not.

The cost of the change over, especially for a stove, may be far more
than the potential savings. Gas went up, but electric has to in
most areas. We have 20% increase. Your stove probably uses $100 of
gas in a year and a replacement will be $500 to $100 including
wiring. You may save $20 a year. Rather poor payback.


Edwin,

The stove it not really the issue, it's just if I do away with gas
that has to be changed out. Heating is the issue and my bills this
winter have doubled--ouch.

J

Unless you have a very high connect fee, why do away with gas totally?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Joey wrote:

But Joseph, I've already been doing that. I would hate to think how
much higher my last bill ($275) would have been had I not conserved. I
even have the programmable thermostat. Considering gas has already
doubled in cost and electric has slightly increased, what do you think
next year will be like ?

J

Perhaps consider an alternative heating method. For example several
years ago I had a wood burning fireplace insert installed. Using a
programmable thermostat my gas fired hot air heating system assures that
the house never goes below a defined comfortable temperature. When I
get home from work a few logs will quickly boost the interior temp to
comfy levels. Then at bedtime adding a few logs and setting the damper
provides sufficient heating to where the furnace doesn't kick in until
morning. Many times enough heat to last well into the morning.

Of course a side benefit is not being locked into a single fuel heating
source.

I was wondering if I would replace my gas furnace with a heat pump, but
they just announced a 72% rate increase here for electricity starting
in July (despite the fact that we get over 90% of our electricity from
nuclear and coal around here). Makes me wonder if a heat pump would
really work for me next winter...

wrote:
I was wondering if I would replace my gas furnace with a heat pump, but
they just announced a 72% rate increase here for electricity starting
in July (despite the fact that we get over 90% of our electricity from
nuclear and coal around here). Makes me wonder if a heat pump would
really work for me next winter...

The numbers can be run to give you a good idea of what the usage would
be for a "standard" year and if you choose an expected cost over the next
ten years or so, you should be able to do the math and figure out the best
bet. The real problem is unless you have some very cheap gas or electric
and little chance of it changing, you will always have some chance of
guessing wrong.

Good Luck.

72% increase - That's not nice.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Joey wrote:

Do you think this is a good idea ????

I installed a dual fuel oven with my remodel. Gas burners on top,
electric convection oven, best of both worlds.

Real nice unit, much more efficient than the old one, hardly gets hot on
the outside, good insulation and seals.

In article .com,
" wrote:

Nuclear MUST at some point pay the cost for old fuel disposal. this
legacy cost and the cost to rebuild existing nuclear plants which are
nearing the end of their design life.plus coal fired plants and the
environmental controls needed

The cost for DECOMMISSIONING a nuke is built-into the utility's rates. This
cost was originally determined when the unit was built.

I suspect, however, they gave little thought to spent fuel disposal. So far,
most of it still resides at the station - at the bottom of a tank of boron.

It will "soon" be transported to Yucca Mountain for ahem permanent disposal
(storage).

http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/ymp/index.shtml

all of this and the increasing cost of gas and oil is going to drive
electric csts skyward

Agreed. I wish we could build more nukes. sigh
--

JR

In article ,
Joey wrote:

It usually gets below freezing about 20-30 days out of the year.

An air-source (electric) heat pump MIGHT be worth considering in your case.

Not sure of prices but the gas as compared to last winter
has doubled but not electric.

I predict you'll soon see the price of NG decline significantly due to the
unusually mild winter. I believe the price is already falling in many areas.

I just swapped-out my natural draft furnace for a "92.8%" efficient,
condensing gas furnace. Check back in a year or so but, after "living" with
the new furnace for only three weeks, I suspect my gas bill will go DOWN
noticeably despite rate increases.

I recommend that you stay with natural gas for your space heating.
--

JR

wrote:
Nuclear MUST at some point pay the cost for old fuel disposal. this
legacy cost and the cost to rebuild existing nuclear plants which are
nearing the end of their design life.plus coal fired plants and the
environmental controls needed

They already are paying the costs for disposal. All owners of nuclear
plants are now paying hundreds of millions into a govt fund that is
going to pay for the Yucca Flat disposal site.



all of this and the increasing cost of gas and oil is going to drive
electric csts skyward

"Joey" wrote in message

Edwin,

The stove it not really the issue, it's just if I do away with gas
that has to be changed out. Heating is the issue and my bills this
winter have doubled--ouch.

Did you verify that with your supplier? I don't see why you can't just cap
off the gas line to the existing hear and keep the stove and any other
appliances you have.

Joey wrote:

Joseph Meehan wrote:

-snip-
Take a deep breath and say to yourself, I know prices are going up and
that I will pay more for heating. I will promise myself that I will do all
that I can to conserve all forms of energy. OK breath and move on. :-)

But Joseph, I've already been doing that. I would hate to think how
much higher my last bill ($275) would have been had I not conserved. I
even have the programmable thermostat. Considering gas has already
doubled in cost and electric has slightly increased, what do you think
next year will be like ?

Joey-
If you're in SW Georgia, and you're not living in some 1/2 acre house,
then you've got some more conserving to do.

I live in a 100+ yr old 3BR farmhouse in upstate NY & my utilities
only run about $300 a month. I have an oil furnace, a propane space
heater, stove, dryer & water heater. We keep the house at 70
during the day- set back to 65 at night.

Our electricity has gone from 12 to 16cents a KWh. Oil from $1.99 to
$2.40, and LP from $2.20 to $2.45. [hardly doubled-- but the media is
still screaming about soaring utility costs---- we've had such a mild
winter my costs are just about where they were last year at this
time.]

Note that my electric has gone up the most-- and it has done that in
the past 2 months as my gas & oil have been going down.

The only way to figure out if switching would be feasible-- at current
rates- is to have your suppliers run the numbers. And there are no
guarantees that next year won't be just the opposite.

What are you paying for gas and electricity per unit?

Jim

Joey wrote:


The stove it not really the issue, it's just if I do away with gas that
has to be changed out. Heating is the issue and my bills this winter
have doubled--ouch.

J

If your electric and gas rates are anything like mine, it would get
even worse with electric heating.

Where I live (in New Jersey), electricity costs 3.6 times as much as
gas, per BTU consumed.

Regards,

Mark

p.s. to compare rates, you'll need to know the conversion factors.
Our electric bill shows energy use in kW-hours.
Our gas bill shows energy usage in terms of "therms".
Multiply your electric rate (given in dollars per kW-hour) times 29.3,
this will give your electric rate in dollars per therm, which you can
compare directly to the gas rate.

In another message about heat pumps, I spoke of the importance of
improving the thermal performance of your home. Insulation and air
sealing are perhaps your best protection against rising energy costs
and, as an added bonus, both can help make your home more comfortable.

Some improvements, such as replacing windows and doors or the
installation of a new heating system are difficult to justify unless
these products are nearing the end of their useful life or their
performance is so woefully deficient that an early change out makes
sense. Other measures, such as caulking and weather stripping,
plastic window kits, low flow shower heads or additional attic
insulation can be done at modest cost and typically by the homeowner
himself. A no cost option with a big payback: washing laundry in cold
water.

Through a whole series of upgrades (including new windows and doors
and new heating system), I reduced my home's energy consumption by
over eighty per cent. In some cases, the economic payback couldn't be
justified based on the energy savings alone, but there were other good
reasons to go ahead and do the work. Sometimes, it was the simple
satisfaction of eliminating waste and inefficiency wherever they may
be, and knowing that each of us can make a positive impact, no matter
how small. Whatever the motivator, there are any number of steps you
can take to control of your energy costs.

And for those contemplating a switchover from gas to electric, how
about using portable electric heaters to offset some of your gas
consumption? This eliminates the risk and expense of replacing your
existing gas furnance and provides you with the flexibility of easily
switching fuels based on their current price. Oil filled electric
heaters are relatively inexpensive and probably the safest to use.
Then, after one or two power bills, you'll be in a better position to
decide if electric heat is truly the smarter choice.

Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:43:56 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

Joey-
If you're in SW Georgia, and you're not living in some 1/2 acre house,
then you've got some more conserving to do.

I live in a 100+ yr old 3BR farmhouse in upstate NY & my utilities
only run about $300 a month. I have an oil furnace, a propane space
heater, stove, dryer & water heater. We keep the house at 70
during the day- set back to 65 at night.

Our electricity has gone from 12 to 16cents a KWh. Oil from $1.99 to
$2.40, and LP from $2.20 to $2.45. [hardly doubled-- but the media is
still screaming about soaring utility costs---- we've had such a mild
winter my costs are just about where they were last year at this
time.]

Note that my electric has gone up the most-- and it has done that in
the past 2 months as my gas & oil have been going down.

The only way to figure out if switching would be feasible-- at current
rates- is to have your suppliers run the numbers. And there are no
guarantees that next year won't be just the opposite.

What are you paying for gas and electricity per unit?

Jim

What about the loss of energy when transmitting through electrical
cables? Vs. gas which I don't believe looses mcuh energy in its
transmission?

--
Thank you,


I once went on a tour of a natural gas pumping station. The gas
pressure in the pipeline varied during the year, between 500 PSI and
2000 PSI. I was told the pumping station, which used a big natural gas
fired engine to run compressors to do the pumping, used 11% of the gas
it pumped. So much for cheap transmission costs.

Stretch