I am trying to diagnose a sluggish toilet flush. I want to determine
whether it is the toilet, the stack drain or the vent.



I have four toilets in the house (three on the second floor), and this is
the only toilet that has a problem. This is one of the second-floor
toilets. It is an older 5-gallon toilet.



If I flush the toilet, I get a strong water flow into the bowl, a strong
swirl, and a strong whirlpool. But no siphoning. The water level in the
bowl remains high throughout the flush. When the flush valve closes, the
swirling stops, and the water remains at that level, instead of emptying the
bowl through siphon action.



If I keep pouring buckets of hot water into the bowl, one after the other,
two bucketsful siphon empty, but every third bucketful leaves water in the
bowl (at the normal, neutral level). The fourth bucketful drains empty
again.



Fishing with a toilet snake, I cannot find any blockage in the trapway. I
have not tried removing the toilet to fish from the bottom (that is a last
resort).



What are your thoughts?



- David

"David D." wrote in message
. ..
I am trying to diagnose a sluggish toilet flush. I want to determine
whether it is the toilet, the stack drain or the vent.



I have four toilets in the house (three on the second floor), and this is
the only toilet that has a problem. This is one of the second-floor
toilets. It is an older 5-gallon toilet.



If I flush the toilet, I get a strong water flow into the bowl, a strong
swirl, and a strong whirlpool. But no siphoning. The water level in the
bowl remains high throughout the flush. When the flush valve closes, the
swirling stops, and the water remains at that level, instead of emptying
the
bowl through siphon action.



If I keep pouring buckets of hot water into the bowl, one after the other,
two bucketsful siphon empty, but every third bucketful leaves water in the
bowl (at the normal, neutral level). The fourth bucketful drains empty
again.



Fishing with a toilet snake, I cannot find any blockage in the trapway.
I
have not tried removing the toilet to fish from the bottom (that is a last
resort).



What are your thoughts?



- David

WAG
something's in the drain pipe, like a towel or rag of sorts. Slows normal
water flow.

Pull the toilet, sorry this is the only way I know of that will help the
situation. Get a snake very close to the diameter of the pipe.

David D. wrote:
I am trying to diagnose a sluggish toilet flush. I want to determine
whether it is the toilet, the stack drain or the vent.

....

What are your thoughts?


Could be several things. I would consider a clogged drain beyond where
your attempts at snaking has been able to reach being the most likely. You
might be best off with a commercial outfit. Otherwise SQ had some good
advice. Remember you will need a really long snake.

I would not rule out the possibility of a clogged vent as well, but I
would not put that first.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

David D. wrote:
I am trying to diagnose a sluggish toilet flush. I want to determine
whether it is the toilet, the stack drain or the vent.



I have four toilets in the house (three on the second floor), and this is
the only toilet that has a problem. This is one of the second-floor
toilets. It is an older 5-gallon toilet.



If I flush the toilet, I get a strong water flow into the bowl, a strong
swirl, and a strong whirlpool. But no siphoning. The water level in the
bowl remains high throughout the flush. When the flush valve closes, the
swirling stops, and the water remains at that level, instead of emptying the
bowl through siphon action.



If I keep pouring buckets of hot water into the bowl, one after the other,
two bucketsful siphon empty, but every third bucketful leaves water in the
bowl (at the normal, neutral level). The fourth bucketful drains empty
again.



Fishing with a toilet snake, I cannot find any blockage in the trapway. I
have not tried removing the toilet to fish from the bottom (that is a last
resort).



What are your thoughts?



- David





maybe poor seal between toilet and floor pipe. Still remove toilet is
the answer. I hear once you remove tem you gotta replace the seal anyway.

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

David D. wrote:
I am trying to diagnose a sluggish toilet flush. I want to determine
whether it is the toilet, the stack drain or the vent.



I have four toilets in the house (three on the second floor), and this is
the only toilet that has a problem. This is one of the second-floor
toilets. It is an older 5-gallon toilet.



If I flush the toilet, I get a strong water flow into the bowl, a strong
swirl, and a strong whirlpool. But no siphoning. The water level in the
bowl remains high throughout the flush. When the flush valve closes, the
swirling stops, and the water remains at that level, instead of emptying the
bowl through siphon action.



If I keep pouring buckets of hot water into the bowl, one after the other,
two bucketsful siphon empty, but every third bucketful leaves water in the
bowl (at the normal, neutral level). The fourth bucketful drains empty
again.



Fishing with a toilet snake, I cannot find any blockage in the trapway. I
have not tried removing the toilet to fish from the bottom (that is a last
resort).



What are your thoughts?



- David




Although your solution might well be in the other answers you received,
I would do a newsgroup search for the words: "Muriatic Acid" & "Toilet."
I too had a toilet that was problematic in flushing and it too was an
older type toilet. The toilet was apparently limed up and the acid
solved the problem. Just thought I would alert you to the solution.

As long as you have PVC or plastic drain lines carefully pouring some
muriatic acid down the dip tube cant do any harm. Use a funnel and wear
eye protection. If the passages in the toilet including the bowl rim
are clogged this will fix it up

Cheap too its under 5 bucks!

drain bowl completely, plunge then use sponge

put in acid, wait 20 minutes then flush normally, you will know right
away if its fixed.

wrote in message
oups.com...
As long as you have PVC or plastic drain lines carefully pouring some
muriatic acid down the dip tube cant do any harm.


Unfortuantely, I have ancient, galvanized drain pipes. So it is even
possible that my clog is corrosion buildup.

The branch drain from my kitchen sink is accessable from the basement, so I
replaced that section with PVC -- What a difference! The old pipe was half
closed.

But all of the other drains are inaccessable -- The stacks are in the wall
and the sewer line is under a slab. There is a main cleanout in the utility
room. Ugh! -- cleaning out from there would create a real mess. Besides,
that cleanout is well beyond the junctions of all of the stacks (with no
individual cleanouts). It could be tricky to fish a snake into the proper
stack. Snaking from above, after removing the toilet, sounds most
promising. Depending on the condition of the galvanized stack pipe, it
might even need a roto-routing.

But, then, who ever said that plumbing is supposed to be fun.

- David

With multiple buckets minor differences in bucket volume may introduce
one poor flush.the fact that at least 2 are OK makes me believe it
sediment buildup.

I would still try the acid, then flush 20 times, to make certain the
acid doesnt lay in the cast iron pipe anywhere, run all faucets
afterward.

or you could pull the toilet, take toilet outside, plug exit and treat
with acid. then flush everything with a garden hose

no repair is risk free Pulling the toilet you might find the flange
bolts are bad, or crack the flange if its corroded. these sorts of
troubles make plumbing not fun for me

Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions.

Whether I do it myself, or hire a plumber, it sounds like the most likely
problem, and first thing to try, it to remove the toilet and fish the stack
drain.

Ahhhh... An adventure beckons!

- David

I had a lazy, slow flush in my rental house. I had never had a problem
in 9 years of living there. I paid R***Rooter $435 to fix it which
they did not. I created such a stink that they sent the regional
manager out and put a camera down the pipe. Of course the problem was
the plumbing they said. It would need a new sewer pipe installed. Not
a trivial task with the house sitting on a slab. Wait a minute I said.
You are full of the same stuff clogging my pipes. So I looked
elsewhere. I found the notorious green goo. The cleaning company that
cleaned the house prior to the last tenant moving out put those green
tidy bowl tablets in the toilet tanks. One look in the bottom of the
tank told me what I needed to know. Being a scientist by training I
knew that for a toilet to flush properly, the water had to move fast
enough to generate the siphon effect to pull the water and waste up
over the trap to clear the bowl. The thick viscous goo was making the
water too viscous to do that. A garden hose and about 5 flushes solved
the problem. I first hosed out the tank then filled and flushed the
bowl and the problem went down the drain.

I wrote to R***ter Rooter and told them they were a bunch of theives.
They have to know from exprerience of this problem especially in old
houses, and it has to be a bigger problem for low volume toilets. If
my experience is any example they are making millions at the expense of
consumers by omission. They know, they just don't tell. Instead, they
charge $100s or even thousands for unnecessary repairs.
Beware anything you do to upset older plumbing. As they say, if it
ain't broke, don't fix it. As far as I know, appliances were designed
to function with plain clear water, not with the additon of a thick
green slimey goo.

Keith