At a friend's house, there's a covered box over a work bench, with a really
fat wire going into it, nothing coming out. We suspect the previous owner
had some sort of 220v tools there, maybe. My friend would like a regular
110v outlet. The house was built around 1985. Am I correct in thinking there
are two hot lines in there, and that I can pick off just one of them plus
neutral in order to get 110v? We're hoping to not have to run another line
back to the breaker box. What's the color arrangement for a 220v line,
assuming that's what's there? (Haven't gone in with a meter yet to measure).

Do not assume anything, and you can't go by color. If you make a colored
wire into a neutral, wrap it with white electrical tape.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
At a friend's house, there's a covered box over a work bench, with a
really
fat wire going into it, nothing coming out. We suspect the previous owner
had some sort of 220v tools there, maybe. My friend would like a regular
110v outlet. The house was built around 1985. Am I correct in thinking
there
are two hot lines in there, and that I can pick off just one of them plus
neutral in order to get 110v? We're hoping to not have to run another line
back to the breaker box. What's the color arrangement for a 220v line,
assuming that's what's there? (Haven't gone in with a meter yet to
measure).

Doug,

Since you believe the wire is 220V, you'll need to kill the power and
open the box to look at it. 220V wiring has a ground and two hots, no
real color code to go by but the ground should be obvious. If you
measure with a volt meter from the ground to one of the other wires, you
should get 120V, to either. Measuring across the two that are not
ground will give the 220V. So, if you want to use this for a regular
120V outlet you will need to cap off one of the wires (not ground).
You'll also need to change the circuit breaker to protect the amperage
rating of whatever you're going to use that outlet for, 15A-20A is
common. At the breaker box you can just remove that dual-gang breaker
and install a regular breaker (cheaper too). Just remember to also cap
off the wire you're not using in the breaker box also. If the wire in
the box where you're wanting to put an outlet is too heavy a gage to
wire directly to the outlet then you'll need to see the electricians at
your local store to see what they have available to reduce it (properly).

J


Doug Kanter wrote:

At a friend's house, there's a covered box over a work bench, with a really
fat wire going into it, nothing coming out. We suspect the previous owner
had some sort of 220v tools there, maybe. My friend would like a regular
110v outlet. The house was built around 1985. Am I correct in thinking there
are two hot lines in there, and that I can pick off just one of them plus
neutral in order to get 110v? We're hoping to not have to run another line
back to the breaker box. What's the color arrangement for a 220v line,
assuming that's what's there? (Haven't gone in with a meter yet to measure).

Doug Kanter wrote:
At a friend's house, there's a covered box over a work bench, with a
really fat wire going into it, nothing coming out. We suspect the
previous owner had some sort of 220v tools there, maybe. My friend
would like a regular 110v outlet. The house was built around 1985. Am
I correct in thinking there are two hot lines in there, and that I
can pick off just one of them plus neutral in order to get 110v?
We're hoping to not have to run another line back to the breaker box.
What's the color arrangement for a 220v line, assuming that's what's
there? (Haven't gone in with a meter yet to measure).

I am very hesitant to suggest that you go ahead there. There are just
too many possible things you could run into to list them all here. If we
miss the wrong one, it could kill you or cause a fire. In this case I
suggest calling in a professional. This is a very easy job for them and
should result in the minimum bill. If it turns out to be more than the
minimum, then it is a good that you had the pro there.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
At a friend's house, there's a covered box over a work bench, with a
really fat wire going into it, nothing coming out. We suspect the previous
owner had some sort of 220v tools there, maybe. My friend would like a
regular 110v outlet. The house was built around 1985. Am I correct in
thinking there are two hot lines in there, and that I can pick off just
one of them plus neutral in order to get 110v? We're hoping to not have to
run another line back to the breaker box. What's the color arrangement for
a 220v line, assuming that's what's there? (Haven't gone in with a meter
yet to measure).
Depending on what was used there (and assuming it was a 240v line...) there
will be either 3 or 4 wires. There is always 2 hots and a ground, there
might also be a neutral.
If you have a neutral you can create a circuit between one of the hots and
the neutral. Without a neutral you must change the whole circuit to 120v by
changing one of the hots to a neutral.
You will almost certainly have to replace the breaker. If the wires are
large, it is probably more than a 20a breaker, and that is the max normally
used for 120v. Having the wires too big is good, but the breaker must be
correct.

This "sounds" like it should be doable in an hour (assuming that it really
is a 240v circuit...) but it would be nice if you could find another friend
who knows something about electricity. Replacing a breaker and installing
an outlet is easy enough, but doing it wrong can be fatal.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
At a friend's house, there's a covered box over a work bench, with a
really
fat wire going into it, nothing coming out. We suspect the previous owner
had some sort of 220v tools there, maybe. My friend would like a regular
110v outlet. The house was built around 1985. Am I correct in thinking
there
are two hot lines in there, and that I can pick off just one of them plus
neutral in order to get 110v? We're hoping to not have to run another line
back to the breaker box. What's the color arrangement for a 220v line,
assuming that's what's there? (Haven't gone in with a meter yet to
measure).


Really fat wire, I must have missed that stuff during my apprenticeship.

Not knowing how many conductors there are no one can answer you.

There is no color code, ESPECIALLY for residential.
Hots can be any color including white.

"SQLit" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
At a friend's house, there's a covered box over a work bench, with a
really
fat wire going into it, nothing coming out. We suspect the previous owner
had some sort of 220v tools there, maybe. My friend would like a regular
110v outlet. The house was built around 1985. Am I correct in thinking
there
are two hot lines in there, and that I can pick off just one of them plus
neutral in order to get 110v? We're hoping to not have to run another
line
back to the breaker box. What's the color arrangement for a 220v line,
assuming that's what's there? (Haven't gone in with a meter yet to
measure).


Really fat wire, I must have missed that stuff during my apprenticeship.

Fer cryin' out loud....you must be an engineer. How about this: Fatter than
the typical 12-3 or 14-3 wire you see running around most of the typical
house in America, but thinner than the stuff you run for an electric range.
Not a range where cattle graze. A stove with oven in the same floor-standing
metal structure. Floor, meaning something mounted on beams running across
some sort of foundation.

:-)

"There is no color code, ESPECIALLY for residential.
Hots can be any color including white."


hots can be any color including white (& green?) ?

Do mean this is allowed by NEC OR just could possibly be since anyone
could have worked on the installation?

cheers
Bob

"There is no color code, ESPECIALLY for residential.
Hots can be any color including white."


hots can be any color including white (& green?) ?

Do mean this is allowed by NEC? Or it just could possibly be since
anyone could have worked on the installation?

cheers
Bob

Top posted this one time for clarity.

Doug,

Joey gave you the right answer and the proper warnings.

Just add a blank to fill the duplex hole in the breaker box cover or stick
in a non connected breaker.

Colbyt


"Joey" wrote in message
...
Doug,

Since you believe the wire is 220V, you'll need to kill the power and
open the box to look at it. 220V wiring has a ground and two hots, no
real color code to go by but the ground should be obvious. If you
measure with a volt meter from the ground to one of the other wires, you
should get 120V, to either. Measuring across the two that are not
ground will give the 220V. So, if you want to use this for a regular
120V outlet you will need to cap off one of the wires (not ground).
You'll also need to change the circuit breaker to protect the amperage
rating of whatever you're going to use that outlet for, 15A-20A is
common. At the breaker box you can just remove that dual-gang breaker
and install a regular breaker (cheaper too). Just remember to also cap
off the wire you're not using in the breaker box also. If the wire in
the box where you're wanting to put an outlet is too heavy a gage to
wire directly to the outlet then you'll need to see the electricians at
your local store to see what they have available to reduce it (properly).

J


Doug Kanter wrote:

At a friend's house, there's a covered box over a work bench, with a
really
fat wire going into it, nothing coming out. We suspect the previous
owner
had some sort of 220v tools there, maybe. My friend would like a regular
110v outlet. The house was built around 1985. Am I correct in thinking
there
are two hot lines in there, and that I can pick off just one of them
plus
neutral in order to get 110v? We're hoping to not have to run another
line
back to the breaker box. What's the color arrangement for a 220v line,
assuming that's what's there? (Haven't gone in with a meter yet to
measure).

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
. ..
I am very hesitant to suggest that you go ahead there. There are just
too many possible things you could run into to list them all here. If we
miss the wrong one, it could kill you or cause a fire. In this case I
suggest calling in a professional. This is a very easy job for them and
should result in the minimum bill. If it turns out to be more than the
minimum, then it is a good that you had the pro there.

Some good ol' common sense goes a long way Joe!

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
"There is no color code, ESPECIALLY for residential.
Hots can be any color including white."


hots can be any color including white (& green?) ?

Do mean this is allowed by NEC OR just could possibly be since anyone
could have worked on the installation?

I've been in the handyman business for more years than I can count, and
NOTHING surprises me. The first thing I take for granted may kill me - and
I've seen things that could have.

Doug-

I was going to try & sort your situation out but the gratuitous slam at
engineers turned me off. If it weren't for engineers your life would
be a lot less comfortable than it is.

People are trying to work essentially blind from the description of the
situation in your post. Wrong advice can be damaging, dangerous.or
deadly esp w/ electricity

good luck with your "really fat wire"

"Am I correct in thinking there are two hot lines in there"?

can't tell from here :

cheers
Bob

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...

I was going to try & sort your situation out but the gratuitous slam at
engineers turned me off. If it weren't for engineers your life would
be a lot less comfortable than it is.


Bob,

I used to slam engineers also until I realized that they performed the job
they were hired to do, which unfortunately in this country is to design a
product that builds a product "to a certain price point". Highest quality
is rarely the objective. If it were I am sure most of you could do a far
better job.

Once I realized that they worked with at least one hand tied behind their
back I no longer felt this way.

Have a great day.


Colbyt

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
Doug-

I was going to try & sort your situation out but the gratuitous slam at
engineers turned me off. If it weren't for engineers your life would
be a lot less comfortable than it is.

People are trying to work essentially blind from the description of the
situation in your post. Wrong advice can be damaging, dangerous.or
deadly esp w/ electricity

good luck with your "really fat wire"

"Am I correct in thinking there are two hot lines in there"?

can't tell from here :

cheers
Bob


Sorry that bothered you, but everyone else seemed to understand the obvious:
If there's a mile of wiring in a typical house, a few feet of it will be
fatter than all the rest, and that's a tipoff that the fat wire serves some
purpose other than lighting, such as range, air conditioning, etc. You knew
what I meant by "really fat".

no. to start with you'll want a ground. if no ground at least go with
a gfi. but your wire size is too fat.
what if: the last guy blew out the circuit, removed the bad female
receptacle and covered it. what if the power runs underground from the
neighbor's house who rented there 20 years ago and the neighbors ran a
line for emergency power. and they didn't disconnect it at their house
because a real electrician was too expensive.
look at the main panel and turn off main and subpanel and turn off its
main. with a tested meter, check the 2 wires separately for power to
GROUND. colors may vary by availability of previous materials or
information or practices in your area.
you will also be replacing any old blown or oversize circuit breaker
with probably a 20 amp breaker so why not rethink this and look for
running a new grounded 20 amp line to match the use you intend?
by helping your friend properly you will help him avoid future problems
for this line and future damage from it to his home.
after identifying these mystery wires, why not work together with him
and identify all circuits and outlets by numbering switchplates and
outlet covers to match the circuits stamped in the metal of the breaker
panel. this work with a sharpie marker and a clipboard to hang by the
breaker panel will be of great help to the electrician.
see also:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/

Sorry Doug, I must disagree with your comment

"but everyone else seemed to understand the obvious"

I was not the only one who found your description lacking, I choose to
ignore your post until the "engineer" crack. I think you have the
thread confused.

I can only assume what you meant by "really fat", again, the view from
here is a little unclear

btw were you describing a cable w/ insulated conductors inside or a
single "really fat wire"? I seen strnage installations with both
conditions.

big difference

Your insistance "You knew what I meant by "really fat". further proves
my point.............. how can you know what my thought process & level
of understanding is? Perhaps your crystal ball could be put to use on
the electrical circuit in question

working on electrical circuits requires a certain amount of precision;
in language & practice

cheers
Bob

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...

working on electrical circuits requires a certain amount of precision;
in language & practice

cheers
Bob


You are correct. Perhaps my question didn't make it clear that I didn't have
enough information. :-) I was trying to narrow things down from a vast
number of possibilities to a somewhat smaller number, based on what I hoped
might be a likely set of wire colors.