regarding the question about automated dimmers. I am
using (mfgr) Lightolier (model) MultiSetPro dimmers, switches,
and controllers. The system is, IMO, fairly clever. The wiring
connections, however, are very complex.

Each switch and dimmer has 5 connections: hot, neut, gnd,
switched hot, and data buss. Each controller (and there *can*
be something like 30, if you want.... I have 2) has 3 connections:
hot, neut, and data buss.

Each switch and dimmer can be operated manually just like a regular
switch/dimmer. In this case, you are manually overriding the system.
The controller has 5 "scenes". Each scene can be any combination
of dimmer/switches, and any individual dimmer brightness setting.
To program, press a scene code (for example "A"),
set up your room the way you want it,
then press a set button on each dimmer
or switch. The dimmer or switch remembers how
it is suppposed to act under program code A.
Same for B, C, D. 5th scene is all units "on".

The buss connection is low voltage, low current,
so you can use a single strand of
insulated wire and snake it to retrofit.
In my case, I had the sheetrock off, so I ran
14/3 romex and used the 3rd wire for the buss connection.

Once you program things, it remembers,
even if you cut the mains, so there is
some ePROM kind of thing in each unit.
There is also a wireless remote, if you
are *really* bored.

In my case, I have under-cabinet fluorescents,
halogen task lighting, and halogen
wall-washer accent lighting for each kitchen
counter, plus halogens around the dinner
table. I have different programs for working
at the counter, sitting at the table,
mininal lighting, and "ambience" illumination
of the cabinets I built myself. Since
I have 2 controllers, one at each kitchen
entrance, I can call each program from
either entrance. It is definitely excessive in terms
of kitchen lighting, but I wanted
to fool around with lighting as a design element.
Even if you don't groove on "scenes",
it is very nice to be walking out of the kitchen and
hit the "OFF" button to kill all the
lights in the kitchen, independent of what is actually on.

It all works. My only beef is that each box
is a rat's nest, a real wiring
nightmare. I wanted to try and clean
things up a bit, and was pondering
the idea of crimping the connections.
Hence the original post.

I actually think I'll get a good crimping tool and
try some crimps, but *NOT* in the kitchen.
Instead, I'll just pick a simple place and try one.

The thread has had lots of good info and opinions.
Again, thanks to everybody
who weighed in.

Bill

Mr_bill wrote:

regarding the question about automated dimmers. I am
using (mfgr) Lightolier (model) MultiSetPro dimmers, switches,
and controllers. The system is, IMO, fairly clever. The wiring
connections, however, are very complex.

Each switch and dimmer has 5 connections: hot, neut, gnd,
switched hot, and data buss. Each controller (and there *can*
be something like 30, if you want.... I have 2) has 3 connections:
hot, neut, and data buss.

Each switch and dimmer can be operated manually just like a regular
switch/dimmer. In this case, you are manually overriding the system.
The controller has 5 "scenes". Each scene can be any combination
of dimmer/switches, and any individual dimmer brightness setting.
To program, press a scene code (for example "A"),
set up your room the way you want it,
then press a set button on each dimmer
or switch. The dimmer or switch remembers how
it is suppposed to act under program code A.
Same for B, C, D. 5th scene is all units "on".

The buss connection is low voltage, low current,
so you can use a single strand of
insulated wire and snake it to retrofit.
In my case, I had the sheetrock off, so I ran
14/3 romex and used the 3rd wire for the buss connection.

snip

I'm curious what the NEC's restrictions are (if any) on mixing line
voltage and low voltage wiring in a single box, as these apparently
call for.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

I'm curious what the NEC's restrictions are (if any) on mixing line
voltage and low voltage wiring in a single box, as these apparently
call for.


Probably NO NO NO. unless its a dedicated device that uses both as part
of its operation.

Your NOT ALLOWED to run say a doorbell wire even close to a powerline
wire because of the shockhazard if they should somehow accidently cross
connect.

"Bud--" wrote in message
.. .

Do garden variety crimps, like panduit, work reliably on #14 and lagrer
wire?

Yes. But as was mentioned before, they will not work with garden variety
crimp tools. This doesn't mean to have to spend a fortune - just get one
that's more than two flat or almost-flat jaws that do nothing but flatten
the sleeve. They need to have a groove into which the sleeve fits snugly -
that keeps the crimp from moving sideways. Some tools have several grooves
to fit different size crimps. Fancier tools use different dies that you
install based on the work you're doing. This is probably overkill for
household work because you're likely to be working with at least two wire
sizes - 12 and 14, so you'll want to be able to switch quickly.

On the opposite jaw, there'll be a tooth which creates a deep dimple in the
metal sleeve. The sleeves have a split on one side - a seam, actually. The
whole system works best when the dimple is made at a point that's 180
degrees opposite that seam. This is one reason why the translucent
connectors are better - it's easier to see the seam, so you can work more
quickly.

If you stay tuned, I'll post some pictures over the weekend, showing the
tool, and properly made connections.

Dont crimp solid wire.

I dont care if someone says it is right or ok... crimp on wire
terminals just dont hold up well on solid wire.

Ive been working with electrical machinery all my life and while some
will say that its the tool or the person doin the crimping it still
isnt right.

even the 4 way crimpers will loosen up over time...all electrical
connections do.

If you want a round connector on the end of a solid wire get you a pair
of round nose pliers and form your own connection. I can make a round
"terminal end" on any wire that is far superior to any crimp on
connector...cause there is no joint.

Make the "hole" a tad bigger than the thread portion of the screw so it
doesnt twist when you tighten the screw, its the best electrical
connection you can get.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dont crimp solid wire.

I dont care if someone says it is right or ok... crimp on wire
terminals just dont hold up well on solid wire.

Ive been working with electrical machinery all my life and while some
will say that its the tool or the person doin the crimping it still
isnt right.

even the 4 way crimpers will loosen up over time...all electrical
connections do.

If you want a round connector on the end of a solid wire get you a pair
of round nose pliers and form your own connection. I can make a round
"terminal end" on any wire that is far superior to any crimp on
connector...cause there is no joint.

Make the "hole" a tad bigger than the thread portion of the screw so it
doesnt twist when you tighten the screw, its the best electrical
connection you can get.


In an environment where vibration is an issue, screws will loosen over time,
just as you say crimps will.

snip
It all works. My only beef is that each box
is a rat's nest, a real wiring
nightmare. I wanted to try and clean
things up a bit, and was pondering
the idea of crimping the connections.
Hence the original post.

I actually think I'll get a good crimping tool and
try some crimps, but *NOT* in the kitchen.
Instead, I'll just pick a simple place and try one.

snip

Yea - I can see the benefits of crimps if they will take up less room in the
jbox. Downside is that this is a fairly complicated setup. Crimps are
permanent, if you use them you better make sure you do it correct the first
time. Also, please label and diagram everything and save the manuals. One of
us may someday be living in your house and by having this well documented
will save us the headaches if something goes wrong.

Also, may I suggest - get a couple of spare switches and a spare controller
and a spare anything that is proprietary. This sort of technology seems to
change pretty quickly. 5 or 10 years from now when a wall switch fails you
will have a hell of a time finding a replacement if I were to bet. And one
will fail someday.

Anyway - your setup sounds nice. I am going to research this solution for
myself as well.

yes...I believe I stated in my post that "all" electrical connections
will loosen over time. But the simple fact is that a crimped
connection will last longer over stranded wire....they just dont grip
that well on solid wire.

Ive worked with electricity for 25 years....Ive seen them all
fail..wirenuts, crimps, screw terminals......they all loosen over
time...but the fact remains that with solid wire a screw terminal will
hold up longer..and its easier to maintain......

of course this all depends on the competance of the person doing the
work ....... I see wire connections everyday where someone didnt get
the wire into the connector far enough or something "just went wrong"
and the person doing the work either didnt care or didnt know...

I have a interesting one. A switch at the edge of its ratings. It
frequently fries out

It uses screw terminals with round crimp connectors screwed on.

out of the connectors once I wrapped the wires directly around the
terminals.

boy was I surprised the switches last twice as long. apparently the dis
similiar metals, brass screw terminals, copper wire, and different
metal terminals cause heating and ultimate failure

Also, may I suggest - get a couple of spare switches....

Funny you should mention this. I had thought seriously
about this myself, and may do it, BUT...
Each switch or dimmer or controller is roughly $100 ea.

You have to weigh having $300 in unused spares vs the
odds of getting into a thorny problem down the road. My
guess is that there will be something around. Maybe
have to replace all units together, but something that
will be able to use the current wiring.

replying to No, Trent wrote:
Say perhaps you get stranded wire cheap or for free perhaps. Stranded wire
does not work well when you loop it around your terminals on outlets. Yes you
can buy high quality outlets but crimp fittings are really reliable and cheap.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ing-79325-.htm

Trent m writes:
replying to No, Trent wrote:
Say perhaps you get stranded wire cheap or for free perhaps. Stranded wire
does not work well when you loop it around your terminals on outlets. Yes you
can buy high quality outlets but crimp fittings are really reliable and cheap.

But not to code. Use the correct receptacles for the type of
wire.

On Thu, 02 Jul 2020 16:37:03 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Trent m writes:
replying to No, Trent wrote:
Say perhaps you get stranded wire cheap or for free perhaps. Stranded wire
does not work well when you loop it around your terminals on outlets. Yes you
can buy high quality outlets but crimp fittings are really reliable and cheap.

But not to code. Use the correct receptacles for the type of
wire.

Stranded THHN/THWN is a listed wire type for most binding terminal
devices. (receptacles and switches)
The workmanship requirement may be a stretch for some unqualified
installers.