All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

"46erjoe" wrote in message
...
All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

It all depneds on how long the house has been on the market. I had one on
the market for a long time and it was listed over the tax value. I took
about 10 % less than the asking price but it was about the tax value . I
also bought a house that had been on the market for about a year. I offered
10 % less than the asking price. It was already listed just under the tax
value. They did not take it. About 2 months later I offered about 5 % less
and they took it. If the housing market if really selling the house may not
stay on the market a month. Then you might as well offer 5 % less and be
ready to go the full ammount if that is not accepted.

If you don't know it, the tax value is public record and you should be able
to get it.

Is this a privite sell or through an agent ? If through an agent then you
don't have to worry about insulting the seller.

"46erjoe" wrote in message
...
All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

There are no more rules of thumb. People are often offering MORE than
asking price if they really want a house in a hot market. Offer what you
think is fair. Do some research in the area and give it a fair shot up
front. Markets do change and a year ago, potential buyer were bidding
against each other beyond asking price.

If you offer more, you are not losing money, but if you offer too little,
you can lose the house. .

One possible scenario Asking price is $200,000, it is the house of your
dreams so you offer 190k
Offer is pondered, but another buyer offers 195k. He get house, you get to
look for another. You never find the house of your dreams. What is $5000
over the next 30 years? About $14 a month plus interest. Not much in an
appreciating market. So you move on, find a house at the price you want to
pay, but over then next few years you invest $10k in repairs. Now you lost
money by comparison.

Sometimes the asking price is ridiculously high. If you have a feel for the
market, you don't even make an offer, but just move on. Maybe in six months
you will find the price to be back in line and ca grab it.

Another scenario from the sellers POV. This was real and happened to a
co-worker last May. Realtor advised listing his house for $370. He said he
"needed" to get $395. Had one offer of $380, but he refused it as he
"needed" his figure to make it work moving to new house. Four months later,
he dropped price, got and accepted an offer for $370. Being a bit greedy,
he really did lose 10k by pricing too high.

"Insulting" the seller is hogwash the realtor tells you. Try to assess
the value by looking at similar homes sales in the area, which your
agent should provide to you if she wants to earn her part of the
commission. Then take into account repairs/updates that need to be
done.

Mike

46erjoe wrote:
All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

My experience buying this time of year was that it tends to be a buyers
market, especially if you're buying where it's cold. You may be able
to go pretty low if there's not much interest in the house. See if you
can figure out if other people are interested. Don't trust your agent
on this point. They want the sale and will try to stampede you into
bidding high. Try calling the selling agent's office and chatting up
the agent's secretary, without revealing who you are. We offered about
5% less than the asking price, and ended up splitting the difference,
in a market (DC) where coming in low is very unusual. (It was at the
time anyway.) My sense of it is they priced the house as if it wasn't
a dead time of year and hoped for the best, but it didn't work for
them.

Good luck.

ccs ikyr

wrote in message
oups.com...
"Insulting" the seller is hogwash the realtor tells you. Try to assess
the value by looking at similar homes sales in the area, which your
agent should provide to you if she wants to earn her part of the
commission. Then take into account repairs/updates that need to be
done.

Couldn't agree more.
Offer what you think the house is worth, regardless of asking price. If the
realtor gives you a hard time deal with someone more cooperative.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:12:55 -0500, 46erjoe
wrote:

All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too

Don't worry about insulting anyone. If he doesn't want to deal with
you again, it's only because he thinks you'll never reach the price
he's wlling to sell at.

But to begin with, how much dealing with are we talking about. Only
offering a higher price. That takes about one minute.

My friend just bought a house for 100,000 dollars less than the asking
price. It has a small barn and a hen house and some building
without walls, I don't know what it was built for, and 4 bedrooms, and
central AC, and a remodelled kitchen, and 3 acres, and is still
pretty close to town. He hasn't volunteered what the asking price
was, but I'm thinking 350 or 400. But he got it for 100G less.

(BTW, in Baltimore County at least, there is a webpage with actual
prices at closing, I'm told. I'm not going to spy on my friend, but
if there is one where you live, you can find out what similar houses
have sold for. I was told in law school that in many jurisdictions,
what gets recorded will say 1 dollar and other valuable consideration,
so that people won't know the price. Maybe that's not true here, or
maybe they take the price of the stamps, the real estate transfer tax,
and work back to compute the sales price.)

I presume he wasn't told this until after the closing, or at least
after the contract, but the man hadn't gotten a single offer on the
house, and he wants to move. It's not the modern style that most
people want. I think iirc it was built in 1918.,

Now, if the guy asks 200 but would settle for 160 and you offer 100,
and a day after it is turned down you offer 101, and 2 days later 102,
they're going to think you will never get high enough, and the realtor
might not even call you back, perhaps. But that's not because they're
insulted. It's because they have other things to do.

near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

Believe you me, my friend didn't pay 900G for a 1 million dollar
house. The house isn't worth that and he doesn't have the money. He
paid something like 33 or 25 percent less than the asking price, and
that was his final bid. First bid if different was less. OTOH, he
and his wife had a place to live and they could afford to pass on this
if he didn't get it.

Don't forget that the bubble is about to burst. Sales were down 1.9%
this week, the first time they've gone down in a year or two. I hope
my friend allowed for this, but I'm sure he did.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

"Insulting" the seller is hogwash the realtor tells you.

I would have thought that until I put my condo on the market. I was
sking $180k and eventually settled for $160k. Along the way, one couple
checked the place out, went away and called the realtor later... I
don't remember the exact numbers, but they offered something like $45k
and claimed the place needed $80k in repairs! WTF? You could have blown
the whole apartment out the side of the building with a bomb and it
wouldn't have cost $80k to fix... I still have no clue what they were
up to.

46erjoe wrote:
All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

No one will be 'insulted" by a low bid. They might refuse it, but it
will not prevent them from accepting your next bid.

Your real problem here is that you don't seem to have any idea what the
property is really worth. I suggest you need to get a professional
appraisal of the property. It will be worth the cost. If it is a
development with a lot of like homes, you can do a little research yourself
and get a good idea. Same type home in the same development sold recently
is what you want. Most local taxing authorities now have recent sales
histories for homes on line. Be sure to get several examples. You can even
use that in bargaining.

You may want to get a professional to represent you in this deal.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:
...

You may want to get a professional to represent you in this deal.

I need to add to that statement that you do not want someone who is paid
on commission to represent you. If on commission they get more the more you
pay. They will not be interested in saving you money. They will want you
to spend as much as possible as quickly as possible. A fixed fee
professional is on your side. You may find an attorney who will do this
part of the job for you and will also check over the legal parts of the
transactions to avoid problems with that.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Ralph Mowery wrote:

It all depneds on how long the house has been on the market. I had
one on the market for a long time and it was listed over the tax
value. I took about 10 % less than the asking price but it was about
the tax value . I also bought a house that had been on the market
for about a year. I offered 10 % less than the asking price. It was
already listed just under the tax value. They did not take it. About
2 months later I offered about 5 % less and they took it. If the
housing market if really selling the house may not stay on the market
a month. Then you might as well offer 5 % less and be ready to go
the full ammount if that is not accepted.

If you don't know it, the tax value is public record and you should
be able to get it.

In most places the assessed value ("tax value") has no relationship to
market value.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

don't you want to meet your new neighbors for the inside information
before you move in anyway?

wrote in message
oups.com...
"Insulting" the seller is hogwash the realtor tells you. Try to assess
the value by looking at similar homes sales in the area, which your
agent should provide to you if she wants to earn her part of the
commission. Then take into account repairs/updates that need to be
done.

Mike


My experience with realtors is that they will try to get a contract with the
seller by painting a rosy picture with a high value. Then they tell the
buyer to bid high because they work on commission. Remember, unless the
realtor is a buyer's agent, the realtor is supposed to represent the seller,
not the buyer. Even then, from my experience, realtors represent themselves
ahead of anyone else.

Bob

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
46erjoe wrote:
All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

No one will be 'insulted" by a low bid. They might refuse it, but it
will not prevent them from accepting your next bid.

Your real problem here is that you don't seem to have any idea what the
property is really worth. I suggest you need to get a professional
appraisal of the property. It will be worth the cost. If it is a
development with a lot of like homes, you can do a little research
yourself and get a good idea. Same type home in the same development sold
recently is what you want. Most local taxing authorities now have recent
sales histories for homes on line. Be sure to get several examples. You
can even use that in bargaining.

You may want to get a professional to represent you in this deal.

--
Joseph Meehan

You don't want to use the bank's appraiser to get an accurate value. Somehow
their value always equals just enough to make the mortgage work. Also,
beware an appraiser who asks you what you think the place is worth. Some
appraisers think they are doing you a favor by pricing something where you
want it. You'll want an honest, knowledgeable, licensed appraiser who can
give you a fair price between a willing seller and willing buyer.

Bob

46erjoe wrote:
All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

No rule of thumb. Asking price is set by the seller who often has
dreams of value. Some need "x" number of dollars towards the house they
next want to purchase. Agents tend to tell the sellers what they want
to hear in hope of landing the listing. Neither of which means anything
to the actual value.

The value is the highest amount a buyer is willing to pay. Do a little
research on recent sales in the area to determine what you feel is a
fair amount to pay. Make your opening bid a bit below this. You'll
know quickly if you are in the ballpark. If an agent doesn't want to
present the offer remind him/her by law they are required to do so.

Expect some negotiation. Just keep in mind what your upper limit is so
as not to get burnt with the transaction.

don't you want to meet your new neighbors for the inside information
before you move in anyway?

This is something nearly everyone overlooks. Try visting the neighborhood
during non-sales hours. Like the morning commute or a Saturday afternoon.
Or if it's next to a school during start/ending times for classes. You want
to get a good picture of what it'll be like to actually LIVE there during
times that might be stress-inducing.

We passed up on a place because the next door neighbor's yard had a huge dog
and nearly no grass. A sure sign the damned thing was out there 24x7 and
undoubtedly barking all the damned time. Sure enough, when biking through
that neighborhood the next spring the damned dog was out there in a barking
frenzy. No thanks. And don't get me started on the people that move out
to the countryside and then bitch about the smell of manure used for
farming...

WOW! What a bunch of great ideas and tips. Thanks everybody.

I'm going through a realtor who unfortunately works for the company
selling the home. So he is in the employ of the seller, not me the
buyer.

I like the idea of hiring an independent appraiser. How do I find one?
Obviously I'm not going to ask the realtor, and what will they
typically charege?



On 31 Dec 2005 04:26:54 -0800, "buffalobill"
wrotF:

don't you want to meet your new neighbors for the inside information
before you move in anyway?

"46erjoe" wrote in message
...
WOW! What a bunch of great ideas and tips. Thanks everybody.

I'm going through a realtor who unfortunately works for the company
selling the home. So he is in the employ of the seller, not me the
buyer.

I like the idea of hiring an independent appraiser. How do I find one?
Obviously I'm not going to ask the realtor, and what will they
typically charege?



And what is happening with the market. Last summer a neighbor put his house
up for sale. First one to looke at it the first day offered $3000 more than
he was asking. He got three more offers that day at what he was asking or
below. Since then the bottom fell out of the market. One across the street
started at a lower price and has lowered his price twice and still no
offers.

If the seller wnats to sell the property he will deal with whoever has
the best offer.

Do your research. If there are several houses in an area that you would
consider then take the asking price of each seller and go with a low
bid on the best property.

If it is a hot market area there may be bids higher than the asking
price.

A poor area nad you could go 60% of asking price.

You can often find out how long a property has been on the market by
asking the agent for a property info sheet.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:12:55 -0500, 46erjoe
wrote:

All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

Thicken your skin.

I suggest you develop a plan for negotiating that will both satisfy
your own needs and yet permit continued discussions with the seller.
That usually involves some light hearted bantering with the seller or
his agent. Humor works wonders, but there is no magic number. The
fair market value and current situation of the seller is King.

I've been offered 50% of my asking price and I didn't mind, but
others may have been offended and refused to deal with the person.

46erjoe wrote:
WOW! What a bunch of great ideas and tips. Thanks everybody.

I'm going through a realtor who unfortunately works for the company
selling the home. So he is in the employ of the seller, not me the
buyer.


I hate to tell you this, but the buying agents ALWAYS work for the
seller. Why? Because you don't pay them, they get a split of the commission.

That being said, good veteran agents will look out for you. That's
because they're smart enough to know that the real money isn't in
screwing you on a single sale, it's the repeat business and referrals.

During my last house buying round, there was a house that not only was
listed by my agent's company, but was her listing, so she would get the
entire commision if I bought it. Additionally, it was a limited listing
(transfer situation, the seller's employer would buy the house if not
sold in a short period) that was going to run out in a few days. She
recommended that I buy a different house in the same area.

I like the idea of hiring an independent appraiser. How do I find one?
Obviously I'm not going to ask the realtor, and what will they
typically charege?

If you don't trust your buying agent enough to even take referrals, I'd
get a new agent immediately. You have no contract with this agent.

A good agent should be able to give you a list of appraisors and provide
you with a comparative market analysis of homes in the area.



Brian

This house has been on the market for about 2 months now. It's located
in the Clarks Summit area of NE Pa near Scranton where prices tend to
be lower than national averages. The company selling the home mostly
does re-locations because the area has a lot of fairly temporary
residents. Eg. This house was bought (my realtor says) 3 years ago for
#162K. It's on the market now for $175K. No work was done to it
because it's fairly new. On my walk through I noticed it had a 200 amp
square D service box, new hi efficiency forced air gas furnace. Taxes
are on the high side I think. It may even be that the home is
currently owned by the company the previous owner worked for. If
you're curious, the MLS # 20055340 and can be seen he
http://www.classicproperties.com/bin...ogin%3Ffarsf11
The last photo shows a beautiful addition made to the original home


On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:46:57 GMT, WM
wrotF:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:12:55 -0500, 46erjoe
wrote:

All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

Thicken your skin.

I suggest you develop a plan for negotiating that will both satisfy
your own needs and yet permit continued discussions with the seller.
That usually involves some light hearted bantering with the seller or
his agent. Humor works wonders, but there is no magic number. The
fair market value and current situation of the seller is King.

I've been offered 50% of my asking price and I didn't mind, but
others may have been offended and refused to deal with the person.

"Larry Fishel" wrote in news:1136011715.713517.238450
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

"Insulting" the seller is hogwash the realtor tells you.

I would have thought that until I put my condo on the market. I was
sking $180k and eventually settled for $160k. Along the way, one couple
checked the place out, went away and called the realtor later... I
don't remember the exact numbers, but they offered something like $45k
and claimed the place needed $80k in repairs! WTF? You could have blown
the whole apartment out the side of the building with a bomb and it
wouldn't have cost $80k to fix... I still have no clue what they were
up to.


Some buyers are weird and some realtors are a bit unscrupulous. Sounds
like this one was a combination of both.

When I sold my last house, the first buyer I encountered underbid my house
and passed along a letter of credit that was only $500 over what they bid
(making it look as though they couldn't go higher). I got another bid the
next day for $250 under my asking price and took it. The first bidder
called me up and told me he actually was able to qualify for a much bigger
loan. It seems his realtor instructed him to get multiple letters of
credit from his mortgage broker so they could support whatever bid they put
in, but it would make it look like they had little to no wiggle room in the
bid. That's the way I took it, and I told him he should consider getting
another realtor before he continued his home search.

How is the market? Is the house occupied? When we purchased our home in
'92 the owners had moved out of state and purchased another place,
leaving this vacant. They wanted 84K, we offered 69k and settled on
72K. It needed a new roof, which they would have paid for if we offered
full price. They took our offer because they had NO offers in 5 months.

Last year the people across from me listed their home. The priciest
home in our neighborhood had been 250k, they thought their place was
worth 329. Lots of lookers and only lookers. (They were going to lower
the price but they were getting so many lookers that they thought they
were asking too little!). Someone came by one day, offered 319 and they
laughed "it's a bargain at 329!". he left, made an offer on something
else. 9 months later it's still sitting there at 329 after having
changed agents. No lookers in a while.

dadiOH wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:


It all depneds on how long the house has been on the market. I had
one on the market for a long time and it was listed over the tax
value. I took about 10 % less than the asking price but it was about
the tax value . I also bought a house that had been on the market
for about a year. I offered 10 % less than the asking price. It was
already listed just under the tax value. They did not take it. About
2 months later I offered about 5 % less and they took it. If the
housing market if really selling the house may not stay on the market
a month. Then you might as well offer 5 % less and be ready to go
the full ammount if that is not accepted.

If you don't know it, the tax value is public record and you should
be able to get it.


In most places the assessed value ("tax value") has no relationship to
market value.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico


That's not totally true. In some cases the
assessor is far behind (like 5 years). OTOH, some
are fairly up to date, but all assessors offices
record the sales prices of homes, so you can check
recent sale prices of similar homes.

Very interesting experiences. Thanks for sharing your stories.
Per

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
46erjoe wrote:
All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

No one will be 'insulted" by a low bid. They might refuse it, but it
will not prevent them from accepting your next bid.

Your real problem here is that you don't seem to have any idea what
the
property is really worth. I suggest you need to get a professional
appraisal of the property. It will be worth the cost. If it is a
development with a lot of like homes, you can do a little research
yourself
and get a good idea. Same type home in the same development sold recently
is what you want. Most local taxing authorities now have recent sales
histories for homes on line. Be sure to get several examples. You can
even
use that in bargaining.

You may want to get a professional to represent you in this deal.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

100% wrong. A "buyer's agent" contracts with the buyer to represent
only the buyer. In some areas this may be unheard of but to find out,
you need to check with the appropriate state regulatory agency. A
"buyer's agent" often works on an hourly rate, not a share of the
commission.

"kokonutty" wrote in message
oups.com...
100% wrong. A "buyer's agent" contracts with the buyer to represent
only the buyer. In some areas this may be unheard of but to find out,
you need to check with the appropriate state regulatory agency. A
"buyer's agent" often works on an hourly rate, not a share of the
commission.

Duh...We know what they are legally supposed to do. We were dealing in
reality.

Mike

Mike wrote:
"kokonutty" wrote in message
oups.com...
100% wrong. A "buyer's agent" contracts with the buyer to represent
only the buyer. In some areas this may be unheard of but to find
out, you need to check with the appropriate state regulatory agency.
A "buyer's agent" often works on an hourly rate, not a share of the
commission.

Duh...We know what they are legally supposed to do. We were dealing
in reality.

And both the reality and legality are as "kokonutty" said. There is a
difference between a "buyer's agent" and the normal realtor with whom a
buyer is dealing. The latter is always representing the seller, the
former is not.


--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

check on zoning industrial on the listing.

http://www.clarkssummitboro.org/

Properties do not always sell for the true market value. Some sellers,
and some buyers, are desperate and will take or make any offer.

In my town, the realtors do a pretty good job of setting an asking price
that will draw buyers, but will often tell you in advance that you
should accept a slightly lower offer, if it is credible, if you want a
prompt sale. Properties that are on the market too long get a
reputation of being overpriced, and draw fewer offers.

We have an aspiring slumlord in town who has his realtor bid 50 percent
of the asking price immediately when any property comes on the market.
A seller's realtor should advise the seller to reject that offer, but is
ethically bound to allow it to be presented. I am sure most people just
laugh at these offers, but I am also sure that once in a while it works,
or he wouldn't be doing it. A seller could, probably for emotional or
intellectual reasons, find a 50% cash offer, presented immediately,
attractive.

I think the gentleman who said you cannot lose money by overbidding
exaggerated. Recently, in some markets, values have been appreciating
so rapidly that overbidding may not hurt you. But the news lately has
been full of predictions that the housing bubble will soon burst, and
sales have actually decreased very recently. If you overbid, and prices
do not continue to increase, you will certainly lose money. A case in
point: a home in our town sold a couple of years ago for far more than
similar properties, because the couple just had to have that house.
Soon the husband lost his job and had to relocate to the Dakotas; his
wife had to leave her lucrative local job to follow him and the kids.
Their house was on the market for six months at a high asking prices,
but drew few offers, none of which would have allowed them to pay off
their mortgage, and pay closing costs, including a realtor's fee. They
then decided to rent it to friends, but eventually the friends moved
out. So I think it is fair to say that they lost money by overbidding;
they just don't yet know how much they lost.

I would suggest a rule of thumb would be to check recent sales prices
for similar properties. Adjust that for any special circumstances (need
for repairs, exceptionally good condition, changes in the local economy,
etc.) and come up with a fair price, and offer just below that, being
ready to improve your offer depending on the response. If no realtors
are involved, offer to split the savings with the seller.

46erjoe wrote:

All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

kokonutty wrote:
100% wrong. A "buyer's agent" contracts with the buyer to represent
only the buyer. In some areas this may be unheard of but to find out,
you need to check with the appropriate state regulatory agency. A
"buyer's agent" often works on an hourly rate, not a share of the
commission.

You fail to understand. The OP was concerned because he thought the
buying agent had an interest in the property selling high because the
agent's company represented it. Well, the buying agent gets a share of
the percentage of the selling price. They are always working for the
seller. That's just the way it is.

A good agent, as I said elsewhere in the post (you didn't bother to
quote, you should do that) will put aside momentary opportunities to
make money and do a good job for the buyer. Again, you didn't quote my
example of an agent possibly hurting herself to represent me properly.
That's because a successful agent knows the money is in repeat business
and referrals.



Brian

dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:

"kokonutty" wrote in message
groups.com...

100% wrong. A "buyer's agent" contracts with the buyer to represent
only the buyer.

Duh...We know what they are legally supposed to do. We were dealing
in reality.


And both the reality and legality are as "kokonutty" said. There is a
difference between a "buyer's agent" and the normal realtor with whom a
buyer is dealing. The latter is always representing the seller, the
former is not.



The point is, who PAYS the agent? It's not (in almost all cases in the
US) the buyer. It's the seller who pays. The lower the price, the less
commission for the agent. That's a fact of the real-estate game.

Again, as the bulk of my message made clear (people seem not to have
paid attention to it), good agents put that aside and work hard for the
buyer.



Brian

Default User wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:

"kokonutty" wrote in message
oups.com...

100% wrong. A "buyer's agent" contracts with the buyer to
represent only the buyer.

Duh...We know what they are legally supposed to do. We were dealing
in reality.


And both the reality and legality are as "kokonutty" said. There is
a difference between a "buyer's agent" and the normal realtor with
whom a buyer is dealing. The latter is always representing the
seller, the former is not.



The point is, who PAYS the agent? It's not (in almost all cases in the
US) the buyer. It's the seller who pays. The lower the price, the less
commission for the agent. That's a fact of the real-estate game.

The buyer pays a buyer's agent (as kokonutty also said). They do not
share in the commission from any purchare made by the person hiring
them.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:

The buyer pays a buyer's agent (as kokonutty also said). They do not
share in the commission from any purchare made by the person hiring
them.


What? No. Where are you? In the USA, it's extremely rare to pay the
buying agent at all. They split the commission with the selling agent.



Brian

On 12/31/2005 6:23 PM or thereabouts, George E. Cawthon appears,
somewhat unbelievably, to have opined:

dadiOH wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:


It all depneds on how long the house has been on the market. I had
one on the market for a long time and it was listed over the tax
value. I took about 10 % less than the asking price but it was about
the tax value . I also bought a house that had been on the market
for about a year. I offered 10 % less than the asking price. It was
already listed just under the tax value. They did not take it. About
2 months later I offered about 5 % less and they took it. If the
housing market if really selling the house may not stay on the market
a month. Then you might as well offer 5 % less and be ready to go
the full ammount if that is not accepted.

If you don't know it, the tax value is public record and you should
be able to get it.


In most places the assessed value ("tax value") has no relationship to
market value.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico


That's not totally true. In some cases the assessor is far behind (like
5 years). OTOH, some are fairly up to date, but all assessors offices
record the sales prices of homes, so you can check recent sale prices of
similar homes.


This is not true in every state. Texas, for example, will not provide
this information to the public, considering it to be a matter of privacy.

--
As a child, my parents thought I was an idiot-savant.
Now, however, it is rather clear that I'm simply an idiot.

46erjoe wrote:
All things being equal, how much should a prospective home buyer offer
to a home seller. If I go too far below the asking price, I could
insult the seller and he won't want to deal with me again. If I go too
near the seller's asking price, I stant to lose a lot of money. Any
general rule of thumb?

1% less, 5% 10% ?????

this is dumb as ****

you get in there and rip their guts out
if they sell it for a dollar then ****em

send them a postcard

listen at you!

"if I ask to little money, they might not like me and won't deal with
me"

if you're trying to rob equity from some young working couple that hits
on hard times then that's on your conscience...

if you don't wanna pay alot of money for a house, then buy a fixer
upper

have the repairs done and double your investment

they are not making anymore land, get it while you can

The point is, who PAYS the agent? It's not (in almost all cases in the
US) the buyer. It's the seller who pays. The lower the price, the less
commission for the agent. That's a fact of the real-estate game.

I agree with half of this. The commission is a function of the sale
price, so the buyer's agent typically has an incentive to push the
price higher.
However, who pays the agent is irrelevant, except with regard to the
separate issue of how much cash you can bring to the closing. The
agent's incentives are dictated by what actions they can take to
increase their income, not by who writes them their check at the end of
the day.

Brian rightly points out that buyer's agents have an incentive that
pushes the other way: to treat you right so they get referrals.
OTOH, in a large hot market, agents will rely on referrals to differing
degrees. Some agents will be able to simply cater to ill-informed
buyers and treat them poorly, not caring much about referrals. Agents
with large cheesy ads in the paper are prime suspects here.

I think the gentleman who said you cannot lose money by overbidding
exaggerated. Recently, in some markets, values have been appreciating
so rapidly that overbidding may not hurt you.

An unspoken premise of many conversations about house prices is that if
homes are appreciating quickly, the market value of the house will
catch up quickly to the high price you paid, so you won't lose money on
the house. Be careful with this one. The right way to think about
paying for a house is "how much do I have to pay to beat out the next
guy?" If you pay more than this, you're losing money on the purchase.
Whether the market value of the house catches up with your purchase
price doesn't matter.

The money you spent above what you had to pay (to beat the next highest
bidder) would have been in your pocket. You could invest it and be
making a return on it or (more likely) spend it on furnishing the
house. Determining the minimum price you need to pay is a very
difficult task, but the point is you should not take that task less
seriously simply because prices are rising rapidly.

A final note (a little OT): don't judge whether there is a "bubble" in
the market based on how many stories appear in the papers and on TV and
on newsgroups, blogs, etc. Judge whether there is a bubble based on
whether you believe a specific argument someone is making on this
point. Repetition does not make something true. A good place to start
is "Assessing High House Prices: Bubbles, Fundamentals, and
Misperceptions", by Himmelberg, Mayer, and Sinai, Journal of Economic
Perspectives vol. 19 no. 4, Fall 2005, available in any decent
university library. Their bottom line is that there is little evidence
of a bubble.

Default User wrote:
dadiOH wrote:

The buyer pays a buyer's agent (as kokonutty also said). They do not
share in the commission from any purchare made by the person hiring
them.


What? No. Where are you? In the USA, it's extremely rare to pay the
buying agent at all. They split the commission with the selling agent.

You are confusing a seller's agent *dealing* with a buyer and a buyer's
agent. Here's the way it works...

1. Someone wants to sell real property and lists it with a broker.

2. Agents of that broker (and others if MLS) try to peddle the property.
By necessity, they deal with potential buyers but they are not buyer's
agents. They are *ALL* seller's agents representing the seller.

If you go to a broker and say, "I want to buy a house" agents working
for him will show you houses but that does not make them buyer's
agents... they are still representing the seller and are compensated by
a portion of the commission arising from any sales they make.

3. You are perfectly free to go to a broker and say, "I want to *hire*
you as a buyer's agent". If he accepts (not all will) he then
represents you...he is a buffer between you and the various and sundry
seller's agents. He does whatever *you* want him to do...he may search
out properties, negotiate...whatever. He is compensated by *you* and
that compensation is whatever was agreed upon between you; it may be an
hourly fee, a flat rate, a percentage of the price you pay...whatever is
agreed between you. The important thing is that he is *your* agent - a
buyer's agent - and is representing you.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico