Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks

"Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
oups.com...
Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks


*Always* get these things in writing. However, maybe the guy wants to see
the situation after you finish your part of the work. Once it's reached that
point, if he still won't put it in writing, move on to the next person.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
oups.com...

Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks



*Always* get these things in writing. However, maybe the guy wants to see
the situation after you finish your part of the work. Once it's reached that
point, if he still won't put it in writing, move on to the next person.



He may not get a written estimate for this job. The first contractor
would lose anyhow when you provide the written estimate to the second
contractor and ask him to beat that price.

"Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Maybe. Right now some materials are fluctuating in price a couple of times
a day. One of my suppliers was not getting pricing from his mill (plastic
wrap) until time of shipment, four weeks after a order was placed. Heck of
a way to do business.

Perhaps the guy just wants to cover his ass in case materials change. I had
a price on some electrical work six months ago. If I was going to proceed
today, the materials have gone up 20% in some items. Not a big deal on
adding a single receptacle, but huge on a major power increase with
transformers and 1000A service.

Write your own specifications regarding the equipment, style, brand, model
etc. of what you want him to install. Describe all the details. Have a floor
plan showing where to install everything. Detail what items are to be on
each breaker. Dimmers. Switched outlets. And so on. When he gives you a
final price get him to write it on a copy of your specification sheet and
have him sign it.

"Name Not Listed" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
oups.com...

Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks



*Always* get these things in writing. However, maybe the guy wants to
see
the situation after you finish your part of the work. Once it's reached
that
point, if he still won't put it in writing, move on to the next person.



He may not get a written estimate for this job. The first contractor
would lose anyhow when you provide the written estimate to the second
contractor and ask him to beat that price.

When I'm not fighting for my life, i do garage doors.
If asked, i give free quotes in writing.
Also for ppl getting insurance estimates.
If some one doesn't want to put in writing there is a good reason.
Take care,
spike

http://thevandalnextdoordeaththreats...asar-intl.com/



"Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
oups.com...
Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks

In writing is best and recording work changes by phone a good back up.
Often contractors will say " you missunderstood " if its a phone order,
a recorded conversation saves you from that headache.

You have every right to expect a quote in writing.
You may expect the job to cost something close to the quote.
You won't neccessarily get either.

A written contract detailing the work to be performed and the costs
involved is not unreasonable for a project. You can also include time
for completion etc etc etc.
Any quote usually has an expiration date for acceptance.

Some contractors will pass on the job, some won't.

"Bubba " ReMoVe wrote in message
...
On 28 Dec 2005 12:08:19 -0800, "Yank_fan_2965"
wrote:

Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks

Hey, let him "have at it". If he doesnt want to give you a written
estimate, he may be working for you for free. He says $3000,....you
say $2000. Without his estimate in writing no judge will grant him a
thing.
Bubba

Nonsense. If there is no contract a judge will give him a fair market value
for the time and materials he put into it.
Let me rephrase that; a judge should... Judges, especially small claims
judges, are capable of doing just about anything; without any regard to
either the law or common sense.

So, it is certainly best to have a contract to avoid such problems. Let me
rephrase that also, to reduce such problems; no way to avoid them.

"Hey, let him "have at it". If he doesnt want to give you a written
estimate, he may be working for you for free. He says $3000,....you
say $2000. Without his estimate in writing no judge will grant him a
thing.
Bubba "

I don't know what legal theory this is based on. If this winds up in
court after the work is done, with a dispute over how much the job was
supposed to cost, a judge most certainly will award the guy something.
How could it be fair to let a homeowner just walk and have the work
done for free? And if the contractor has a witness to the verbal
contract and the homeowner doesn't, guess who he's probably gonna
believe.

Bubba
Dec 28, 5:50 pm show options

"Nonsense my ass. Any judge finding a legitimate contractor doing work
without something in writing will have a field day with that
contractor."

Toller is right. These cases wind up in court all the time. A written
contract is an absolute requirement for a few things, real estate being
one of them. For a home wiring job, it's certainly a good idea for
everyone's benefit to have a written contract. But absent a written
contract, you can still have a verbal contract. And if these two
parties went ahead with this job, that's exactly what you would have.
This stuff winds up in court all the time. And if the contractor has a
witness and the homeowner doesn't, guess who's likely to win. And if
the judge can't decide who to believe, he will still likely award what
he believes to be a fair value for the job.Why anyone would think a
tradesman deserves to be stiffed, is beyond me. It's not like there
aren't lots of shyster homeowner's around too, that are looking for a
deal and then wind up trying to cut a better one when the work is done.

I agree with this person:

"Write your own specifications regarding the equipment, style, brand,
model
etc. of what you want him to install. Describe all the details. Have a
floor
plan showing where to install everything. Detail what items are to be
on
each breaker. Dimmers. Switched outlets. And so on. When he gives you a
final price get him to write it on a copy of your specification sheet
and
have him sign it."

I can also tell you that you are not likely to get a written estimate
on small jobs. Something verbal or a number written on the back of a
business card. They don't have the time to do anything detalied just
for something like that. You need to specify exactly what they are
doing (how many receptacles, how many light switches, or even what
their ball park esitmate was.

"Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
oups.com...
: Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to
install
: the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the
installation of
: the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the
electrical
: before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
: electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up
from
: the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave
me a
: verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real
details were
: included. I then asked him to provide me with a written
estimate. He
: declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start
the
: job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written
estimate of the
: costs now. Am I being unreasonable?
:
: Thanks
:

Ignoring a number of the non-answers so far in this thread, I'll
try to answer your direct question:
-- No, you are not being unreasonable in requiring a
written/signed estimate.
-- Yes, you are being a little unreasonable to require a
written/signed estimate when the contractor has not seen or
evaluated the physical site to figure out what he needs to
buy/ship/source/pay plus labor.

Also remember, an ESTIMATE is just that: an ESTIMATE. It is NOT
a guarantee of the actual price you'll pay when the job is
completed! That's why the written/signed estimate is important
and why it should be detailed: It's there to compare the
estimated work against the actual work when all is done. If
there was more work required done than in the estimate, you pay
for it. If less, then the bill should drop accordingly. You'll
have a tough time getting a guaranteed price for a job unless
it's painfully obvious to the contractor and he's positive what
he needs to do and what could go wrong as he does it, OR he knows
he guaranteed high enough he doesn't care what he runs into. Two
way street, in other words.

HTH,

Pop

Bubba wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:12:16 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Bubba " ReMoVe wrote in message
.. .
On 28 Dec 2005 12:08:19 -0800, "Yank_fan_2965"
wrote:

Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks

Hey, let him "have at it". If he doesnt want to give you a written
estimate, he may be working for you for free. He says $3000,....you
say $2000. Without his estimate in writing no judge will grant him a
thing.
Bubba

Nonsense. If there is no contract a judge will give him a fair market value
for the time and materials he put into it.
Let me rephrase that; a judge should... Judges, especially small claims
judges, are capable of doing just about anything; without any regard to
either the law or common sense.

So, it is certainly best to have a contract to avoid such problems. Let me
rephrase that also, to reduce such problems; no way to avoid them.

Nonsense my ass. Any judge finding a legitimate contractor doing work
without something in writing will have a field day with that
contractor. A contractor should know better and the judge will prove
tha pointt by showing him an expensive lesson.
However, you are correct in that a judge can also do whatever the hell
pleases him. Thats why a contract is best.

A verbal contract is just as binding as a written one. It all depends
on who the judge believes. And when the contractor shows up with
actual jobs for similar work for $3000 and says "judge, why in the
world would I quote 2000 when I know it would cost me $3000", the judge
would probably have a hard time not believing him, especially when it's
your turn to testify UNDER OATH (doesn't that mean anything anymore?)
and you keep changing your story because you're lying through your
teeth.

"Pop" wrote in message
Ignoring a number of the non-answers so far in this thread, I'll
try to answer your direct question:
-- No, you are not being unreasonable in requiring a
written/signed estimate.
-- Yes, you are being a little unreasonable to require a
written/signed estimate when the contractor has not seen or
evaluated the physical site to figure out what he needs to
buy/ship/source/pay plus labor.

Other factors I neglected to mention.

Contractors are not always good office managers or clerks. He does not want
to take the time to write a detailed estimate and you then say "oh, it is
more that I thought, I'll wait a couple of years" but the does not give him
back his hour

Another is that you will take his carefully prepared estimate and hand it
over to other fly by night cheap contractors so they can beat his price.
With nothing in writing, you don't have that bargaining chip to hold over a
more hungry contractor's heat.

Lastly, he may not give damn. He may have more work that he can handle and
just does not want to spend a lot of time yet on a non-customer. The
electrician I use at work does not care much about you when he has regular
customers like me that pay fast, pay his fair rate, never hassle, etc. If
he was working on your house and I called for an emergency he'd just walk
away and come to our place. I know that for a fact because he has done it a
couple of times, that last being after a flood in October. He was there in
a half hour and worked two solid days. You would have just waited.

"Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
oups.com...
Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks

Yep, it is reasonable, but estimates are not binding, so it isn't worth the
paper it is written on.

If you want a definite figure for a specific set of tasks finished during a
particular timeframe, ask for a quote. That'll be binding, assuming you
accept it without asking for changes.

KB

"Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
oups.com...
Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks


A "contract" is made of two elements.

Offer and acceptance.

The contractor (and make SURE he is a contractor) OFFERS to do the work for
a price.

The owner ACCEPTS the offer, and they have a CONTRACT.

If there is no written offer, there can be no contract. Verbal agreements
are worth the paper they're written on. They are enforceable, but only if
you 're lucky, and if you DO win, you don't have much of a chance of relief.

You should ask your "contractor" to have their insurance company (ies) send
you documentation of worker's compensation coverage, liability coverage, and
surety bond.

If they don't do this, they aren't a contractor. Or not a good contractor.
You may be the general, or owner contractor on the job, and be allowed to
hire subs that don't have a contractor's license, but it CAN get complicated
from there. Laws vary from state to state.

Bottom line, if you want to be more sure that it's done and done right, hire
a contractor. I said more sure, because there isn't any guarantee that you
won't have problems with a licensed contractor. But you are less likely to.
With subs and unlicensed contractors, it can turn into the attic job from
hell.

I would say if this person won't put it in writing, they're not a
contractor. Be wary hiring them. Buy all materials yourself and save
money. NEVER, repeat NEVER, let them get ahead of you in the amount of
money paid versus the amount of work done.

Contracting without a license (even giving an estimate to do work) is a
felony in my state, and they have FINALLY started enforcing it on these
boobs.

Steve

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
In writing is best and recording work changes by phone a good back up.
Often contractors will say " you missunderstood " if its a phone order,
a recorded conversation saves you from that headache.


It's called a "change order" and is written. Phone changes ain't worth the
paper they're printed on.

Steve

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 19:05:58 -0500, "Pop"
wrote:

Also remember, an ESTIMATE is just that: an ESTIMATE. It is NOT
a guarantee of the actual price you'll pay when the job is
completed! That's why the written/signed estimate is important
and why it should be detailed: It's there to compare the
estimated work against the actual work when all is done. If
there was more work required done than in the estimate, you pay
for it. If less, then the bill should drop accordingly. You'll
have a tough time getting a guaranteed price for a job unless
it's painfully obvious to the contractor and he's positive what
he needs to do and what could go wrong as he does it, OR he knows
he guaranteed high enough he doesn't care what he runs into. Two
way street, in other words.

I like the phrase "Statement of Work". All the W's (Who, What, When
Where and Witness) can detail things easier. If the SOW says for 5000
feet of fiber optics to pass all test and it does, the dude gets paid
as the SOW is in the contract. if not he fixes the network backbone.

Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

"Bubba " ReMoVe wrote in message
...
On 28 Dec 2005 15:34:11 -0800, wrote:

"Hey, let him "have at it". If he doesnt want to give you a written
estimate, he may be working for you for free. He says $3000,....you
say $2000. Without his estimate in writing no judge will grant him a
thing.
Bubba "

I don't know what legal theory this is based on. If this winds up in
court after the work is done, with a dispute over how much the job was
supposed to cost, a judge most certainly will award the guy something.
How could it be fair to let a homeowner just walk and have the work
done for free? And if the contractor has a witness to the verbal
contract and the homeowner doesn't, guess who he's probably gonna
believe.

What theory? Actual experience.
I installed a furnace for a customer and I had a signed estimate.
It comes time to pay and the guy says, "Nope, dont want to". ??
He had no complaint with anything. Finally the lawyers hashed it out
and we settled on 2/3rds or the original estimate and we had to pay
our own lawyer fees. That brought it down to 1/3rd the original quote.
Finally heard his complaint was the price was too high. It wasnt. Just
shows you that between a judge and a goofy customer, anything can
happen.
Is that, "theory enough" for you trader?
Bubba

How about the fact that in a state that requires you to be licenced, and you
are not, you can get away with allowing the guy to do the work, and when its
time to pay, you tell him to get out and there really isnt a damn thing he
can do about it.

All you guys that want cheap, hire a local non licenced hack, and go on and
get your HVAC system replaced with a top of the line Goodman (lol) and get
ALL your wiring replaced and all your water lines replaced too...make sure
he knows you are not paying a thing till hes done, and then, dont.

"If there is no written offer, there can be no contract. Verbal
agreements
are worth the paper they're written on. They are enforceable, but only
if
you 're lucky, and if you DO win, you don't have much of a chance of
relief. "

Well. which is it? First you say without a written offer, there can be
no contract. Then you say verbal agreements are enforceable. A verbal
contract, with a few exceptions, eg for real estate transactions, is
enforceable without anything being in writing. The difficulty is
proving which party is telling the truth and right.

Trad Wrote:

"Buy all materials yourself and save
money. "

My comment on that is: If you buy your own materials, you can also do
your own work. If I install someone elses materials or equipment (I
wont), I would not put any warranty on the materials. for instance, you
supply the water heater. I install it. We find it is faulty (leaks)
from the factory. I will charge to install it, then charge to take it
out so you can return for exchance, then charge to put it back in
again. I have no control over the quality of what you buy. I also
make no money on it. I am not "Charity Cooling & Plumbing". Don't be
a tight wad.

End of rant.

Stretch

....
:
: A verbal contract is just as binding as a written one. It all
depends
: on who the judge believes. And when the contractor shows up
with
: actual jobs for similar work for $3000 and says "judge, why in
the
: world would I quote 2000 when I know it would cost me $3000",
the judge
: would probably have a hard time not believing him, especially
when it's
: your turn to testify UNDER OATH (doesn't that mean anything
anymore?)
: and you keep changing your story because you're lying through
your
: teeth.

So, it's up to a judge to decide who he believes (that would be
small claims court; a preponderance of the evidence): Sooo, just
how is THAT better than a written, signed contract detailng the
work? It's not.

Nonsense.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..
:
: "Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
: oups.com...
: Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to
install
: the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the
installation of
: the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the
electrical
: before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
: electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines
up from
: the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he
gave me a
: verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real
details were
: included. I then asked him to provide me with a written
estimate. He
: declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to
start the
: job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written
estimate of the
: costs now. Am I being unreasonable?
:
: Thanks
:
: Yep, it is reasonable, but estimates are not binding, so it
isn't worth the
: paper it is written on.
:
: If you want a definite figure for a specific set of tasks
finished during a
: particular timeframe, ask for a quote. That'll be binding,
assuming you
: accept it without asking for changes.
:
: KB
:
No, assuming they both sign and date it, and that it's written
correctly. Then most likely yes.

"Steve B" wrote in message
newsjHsf.63$JT.25@fed1read06...
:
: "Yank_fan_2965" wrote in message
: oups.com...
: Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to
install
: the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the
installation of
: the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the
electrical
: before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
: electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines
up from
: the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he
gave me a
: verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real
details were
: included. I then asked him to provide me with a written
estimate. He
: declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to
start the
: job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written
estimate of the
: costs now. Am I being unreasonable?
:
: Thanks
:
:
: A "contract" is made of two elements.
:
: Offer and acceptance.
:
: The contractor (and make SURE he is a contractor) OFFERS to do
the work for
: a price.
:
: The owner ACCEPTS the offer, and they have a CONTRACT.
:
: If there is no written offer, there can be no contract. Verbal
agreements
: are worth the paper they're written on. They are enforceable,
but only if
: you 're lucky, and if you DO win, you don't have much of a
chance of relief.
:
: You should ask your "contractor" to have their insurance
company (ies) send
: you documentation of worker's compensation coverage, liability
coverage, and
: surety bond.
:
: If they don't do this, they aren't a contractor. Or not a good
contractor.
: You may be the general, or owner contractor on the job, and be
allowed to
: hire subs that don't have a contractor's license, but it CAN
get complicated
: from there. Laws vary from state to state.
:
: Bottom line, if you want to be more sure that it's done and
done right, hire
: a contractor. I said more sure, because there isn't any
guarantee that you
: won't have problems with a licensed contractor. But you are
less likely to.
: With subs and unlicensed contractors, it can turn into the
attic job from
: hell.
:
: I would say if this person won't put it in writing, they're not
a
: contractor. Be wary hiring them. Buy all materials yourself
and save
: money. NEVER, repeat NEVER, let them get ahead of you in the
amount of
: money paid versus the amount of work done.
:
: Contracting without a license (even giving an estimate to do
work) is a
: felony in my state, and they have FINALLY started enforcing it
on these
: boobs.
:
: Steve
:
:
Excellent post, especially the insurance and bonding mention.
Those are very important: Without it, they're working on YOUR
homeowner's insurance protection. And could sue you as I saw
happen two summers ago. Dropped a chimney stone on his foot -
broke a toe. Sued the guy in small claims. Lost, but still ...

Bubba Dec 28, 10:45 pm
What theory? Actual experience.
I installed a furnace for a customer and I had a signed estimate.
It comes time to pay and the guy says, "Nope, dont want to". ??
He had no complaint with anything. Finally the lawyers hashed it out
and we settled on 2/3rds or the original estimate and we had to pay
our own lawyer fees. That brought it down to 1/3rd the original quote.
Finally heard his complaint was the price was too high. It wasnt. Just
shows you that between a judge and a goofy customer, anything can
happen.
Is that, "theory enough" for you trader?
Bubba "

You made the assertion that a judge would not award anything to a
oontractor who did a job without a contract and didn't get paid. What
does this experience have to do with that? Apparently you did get paid
something by agreeing to a settlement out of court, which instead of
supporting your position, tends to refute it. Are you conflicted?

Yank_fan_2965 wrote:
Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks

As a builder, I would strongly urge you to not only get a detailed
estimate of the work involved but also a written contract, addressing
the cost, to complete the work, as described. A reputable contractor
should never baulk at entering such an agreement.

Yank_fan_2965 wrote:
Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks

Yank_fan_2965 wrote:
Quick question. I am going to remodel my attic. I have yet to install
the knee walls and the framing necessary prior to the installation of
the electrical components. I want to get a firm quote on the electrical
before I proceed with the framing. I got an estimate from an
electirician to do all of the electrical, bring addn'l lines up from
the basement etc. Several days after he visited my home he gave me a
verbal estimate of the total cost over the phone. No real details were
included. I then asked him to provide me with a written estimate. He
declined. He said he wanted to wait until he was ready to start the
job. I feel that he should be able to provide a written estimate of the
costs now. Am I being unreasonable?

Possibly.
Some things that may have influenced the electrician's refusal to
provide a written estimate:
- Your work wasn't completed when the electrician visited. Things
might have changed from when he visited and he's wary of giving an
estimate in writing without seeing the completed work.
- He might have gotten a vibe that you were price shopping and was
concerned that you would hand that written estimate to another
electrician. He does the estimating and another guy gets paid. Are
you price shopping? Did you contact other electricians? I'm not
saying you shouldn't get a couple or three bids, but I'm sure you can
understand the reluctance if that's the case.
- Your job sounds fairly small, and a lot of contractors loathe
paperwork. It's not the reason they're in the business. It's also a
business where established relationships have the benefit of history
and trust - paperwork is frequently kept at a minimum. You being a new
guy to him, and a potential pain in the ass, is a risk for him. You
too, but he's not looking at it from your side of the fence.

If your intention is to lock in a firm price, write up the contract so
the guy will know you're not shopping around and he won't have to worry
about that. You'll need to finish up your work, or guarantee certain
conditions, before any sensible contractor will sign a contract with a
guaranteed price.

As an aside to the other poster's who are batting the judge/court
outcomes back and forth: Do your states have mechanic's liens? In
this neck of the woods, filing a mechanic's lien puts an encumbrance on
the property. If the owner goes to refinance, take out equity, gets a
credit check, etc., it will show up as a ding. Frequently the owner
will be the one in a hurry to get the thing resolved as the amount in
question may be much smaller than the amount in jeopardy due to the
lien.

R

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 17:53:15 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


Contracting without a license (even giving an estimate to do work) is a
felony in my state, and they have FINALLY started enforcing it on these
boobs.

Steve



This is true and is probably why the "contractor" that installed a
replacement heating system in my house in Jan 1992 was sued by the
town attorney.

This heating guy should have gotten permits from the town. He didn't,
so the town came after me instead. But, when the town learned that
this guy was again doing plumbing work, they went after him. You see,
the town had revoked this guy's plumbing license already. He was
prohibited to do any plumbing in this town.

The town attorney had kept me informed, as they wanted my testimony in
the court record. It would have meant time away from my office, but I
was already angry and willing. However, at the last minute, the guy
changed his plead to guilty and was fined: $250.00. BIG DEAL.!

This did not help me any when I went after the heating guy in small
claims (evening) court. I would have been happier if the town was
awarded $2500.00 rather than $250.00.