In the middle of a $15,000 kitchen remodel my "self-proclaimed"
contractor was put in jail. It was 3 weeks ago and he failed to finish
the job. I had a contract with him in which I paid $3500 a week until
the job was finished. The bad part is I had already paid him $12,500
when he went to jail. I have since hired a new "professional"
contractor to bail me out (for $3000) and along with my 80+ hours of
labor and $1000 in materials. Lot's of the work had to be redone.

The dead beat is out of jail now and He will not talk to me. He said
that he had 2 days on left on this job before he left, and that he
doesn't owe me anything. I have spent 2 weeks fixing his work and it's
still not complete. I have since found out that he is not even licensed
and probably doesn't have insurance. I have learned a valuable lesson -
about checking license numbers...bonded, insured etc..but it's too late
for this deal. Either way, I really want to burn this guy, before he
burns someone else, but now I don't have a lot of money to pay court
fees. I have been told that here in FL - even if I win in court, there
is no guarantee that I'll ever see a dime of my money back.

What are my options?


eodx2_at_cox.net

HomeBrewer wrote:
In the middle of a $15,000 kitchen remodel my "self-proclaimed"
contractor was put in jail. It was 3 weeks ago and he failed to
finish the job. I had a contract with him in which I paid $3500 a
week until the job was finished. The bad part is I had already paid
him $12,500 when he went to jail. I have since hired a new
"professional" contractor to bail me out (for $3000) and along with
my 80+ hours of labor and $1000 in materials. Lot's of the work had
to be redone.
The dead beat is out of jail now and He will not talk to me. He said
that he had 2 days on left on this job before he left, and that he
doesn't owe me anything. I have spent 2 weeks fixing his work and
it's still not complete. I have since found out that he is not even
licensed and probably doesn't have insurance. I have learned a
valuable lesson - about checking license numbers...bonded, insured
etc..but it's too late for this deal. Either way, I really want to
burn this guy, before he burns someone else, but now I don't have a
lot of money to pay court fees. I have been told that here in FL -
even if I win in court, there is no guarantee that I'll ever see a
dime of my money back.
What are my options?

You have one option. See a local attorney. Laws are not the same
everywhere so you need a local legal professional.




eodx2_at_cox.net

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:06:57 -0500, HomeBrewer wrote:

I have learned a valuable lesson - about checking license
numbers...bonded, insured etc..but it's too late for this deal.

What are my options?

Unless you want to flush some more money down the drain, you have no
options. Take the lesson you mentioned above, and move along.

--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

I know you are mad but what are you realy out in $ . You say it was a
15000 job and you paid 15500? Sure you paid a premium to get in someone
else, but that was your decision alone, you could of waited. He did not
plan on getting arested. What if he was in the hospital, would that have
made a difference? If so then I dont see your point.

HomeBrewer wrote:
In the middle of a $15,000 kitchen remodel my "self-proclaimed"
contractor was put in jail. It was 3 weeks ago and he failed to finish
the job. I had a contract with him in which I paid $3500 a week until
the job was finished. The bad part is I had already paid him $12,500
when he went to jail. I have since hired a new "professional"
contractor to bail me out (for $3000) and along with my 80+ hours of
labor and $1000 in materials. Lot's of the work had to be redone.

The dead beat is out of jail now and He will not talk to me. He said
that he had 2 days on left on this job before he left, and that he
doesn't owe me anything. I have spent 2 weeks fixing his work and it's
still not complete. I have since found out that he is not even licensed
and probably doesn't have insurance. I have learned a valuable lesson -
about checking license numbers...bonded, insured etc..but it's too late
for this deal. Either way, I really want to burn this guy, before he
burns someone else, but now I don't have a lot of money to pay court
fees. I have been told that here in FL - even if I win in court, there
is no guarantee that I'll ever see a dime of my money back.

What are my options?


eodx2_at_cox.net

Just because someone else has shown an ability to do better work does
not mean this guy shafted you. Looks like he showed up, and put his
best foot forward. I don't see how he could finish the job if he is in
jail, nor how that makes him a dead-beat. He had a pretty good excuse...

If you found someone better that is fine. But don't feel shafted by
somebody that did the best he could do, even if it was inferior.
Perhaps the person that shafted you is the one that recommended him for
the job.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

Dan C wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:06:57 -0500, HomeBrewer wrote:


I have learned a valuable lesson - about checking license
numbers...bonded, insured etc..but it's too late for this deal.


What are my options?


Unless you want to flush some more money down the drain, you have no
options. Take the lesson you mentioned above, and move along.


Ditto.

"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
Dan C wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:06:57 -0500, HomeBrewer wrote:


I have learned a valuable lesson - about checking license
numbers...bonded, insured etc..but it's too late for this deal.


What are my options?


Unless you want to flush some more money down the drain, you have no
options. Take the lesson you mentioned above, and move along.


Ditto.

In my state, contracting without a license is a felony. Merely offering to
do work for a preset amount constitutes contracting, and no work has to be
performed.

If you want to cut your losses and run, that would be smart. If you want to
contact your contractor board and see if they will prosecute, you may get
legal punishment, but probably will never see any money.

A major kitchen remodel with no checking of licenses or insurance.

WHAT THE F*** WERE YOU THINKING!

Steve

If you can prove that you had to pay someone else $500 more for labor
and $1000 for materials to complete the job than it would have cost had
he completed it, then you have a case. But you need to be able to
prove that it was for the same scope of work, not for something extra.
I hope you took lots of photos of the poor/missing work. You could
also sue for the the hours you had to put in, but that is difficult to
prove. How good a case you have is questionable. His defense is going
to be that he was in jail for 3 weeks and would have completed it when
he got out. You could take him to small claims court, but he'll
likely file a counter suit for the balance you owed him. It's up to a
judge to decide if he breeched the contract by winding up in jail or if
you did by calling in someone else instead of waiting 3 weeks. If a
contractor did this after ripping out the only toilet in the house,
IMO, calling someone else in is perfectly reasonable. On the other
hand, if it was some trim work left to do, 3 weeks may not be an
unreasonable amount of time to wait.

As someone else has told you, getting a judgement and collecting it are
two different things. Usually, guys like this hide their assets and
have no steady job where you can garnish wages. Many don't even
bother to show up in court. Actually, you should consider yourself
lucky, as many of these turn out far worse. Next time, make sure the
contract calls for withholding a reasonable sum until final job
completion. Paying by the week, rather than by how far along the job
is was a mistake.

You are getting a lot of advice here from different states.

Either walk away and consider it life training, or contact the contractor's
board IN YOUR STATE and see what they can do to get your pound of flesh, in
Shylockian terms.

Some of the advice you are getting here isn't worth the paper it's written
on.

Steve

On 30-Jun-2005, HomeBrewer wrote:

In the middle of a $15,000 kitchen remodel my "self-proclaimed"
contractor was put in jail.

snip

This sounds like one of those situations that you learn your lesson and walk
away.
You were willing to pay a guy in the neighborhood of $80/hr w/o checking on
any kind of license etc?

I have since hired a new "professional"
contractor to bail me out (for $3000) and along with my 80+ hours of
labor and $1000 in materials.

why is "professional" in quotes? Is this new guy a hack you found somewhere
too?

Don't forget the other side of the coin should you go pursuing this legally.
You all had a contract for $15,000 and you basically reneged on $2,500 of
it by hiring the new guy to complete the work. I don't have a copy of this
contract in front of me but I doubt you had escape clauses in there should
the guy go to jail, and I don't know if you had a guaranteed completion date
in there.

You say you had to redo a lot of the work. Why? Did it not meet code? Was
it falling down? Or was it just not perfectly installed but would have been
ok? That becomes important why trying to assess any financial damages. If
it was the latter it sounds to me like you don't have any case at all,
unless there was wording in the contract specifying the level of quality.
I'm not sure about Florida law but it's possible that since this guy wasn't
licensed you are the one responsible for ensuring the work met code not him.
Somehow I doubt you pulled a permit.

at any rate just take a deep breath and let it slide, you'll be better off
overall.

ml

HomeBrewer wrote:
In the middle of a $15,000 kitchen remodel my "self-proclaimed"
contractor was put in jail. It was 3 weeks ago and he failed to finish
the job. I had a contract with him in which I paid $3500 a week until
the job was finished. The bad part is I had already paid him $12,500
when he went to jail. I have since hired a new "professional"
contractor to bail me out (for $3000) and along with my 80+ hours of
labor and $1000 in materials. Lot's of the work had to be redone.

The dead beat is out of jail now and He will not talk to me. He said
that he had 2 days on left on this job before he left, and that he
doesn't owe me anything. I have spent 2 weeks fixing his work and it's
still not complete. I have since found out that he is not even licensed
and probably doesn't have insurance. I have learned a valuable lesson -
about checking license numbers...bonded, insured etc..but it's too late
for this deal. Either way, I really want to burn this guy, before he
burns someone else, but now I don't have a lot of money to pay court
fees. I have been told that here in FL - even if I win in court, there
is no guarantee that I'll ever see a dime of my money back.

What are my options?


eodx2_at_cox.net

Your best option is to get on with your life and fill it with pleasant
things that will make you forget all about this turd bump in the road.

From where I sit, I see your chances of coming out "even" are two, slim
and none. Slim rode out of town yesterday at high noon.

Jeff.

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

wrote in message
ups.com...
If you can prove that you had to pay someone else $500 more for labor
and $1000 for materials to complete the job than it would have cost had
he completed it, then you have a case.

I know someone in a similar situation, but it was not jail, just a
contractor that bailed on him. He was able to recoup some of the cost
incurred, but the legal fees ended up costing 3X what he collected.

You have no case against him, getting arrested is an act of god, like
breaking a leg,. You broke the contract by hiring someone else, probably
you did not give proper legal notice. If I were him I could bring suit
against you if I was operating legaly, or at least I could countersuit
you. In my area it is not illegal to not have a lisence,, but all areas
are different. You esentialy fired him not because yu were unhappy with
the work but for time, which is understandable if he did not have a firm
sentenance, if he had a 3 week sentance then it was the same as firing
him if he was in the hospital, and no contract allows that crap, we all
gert sick. So you paid more, So the other guy had higher rates. You
should be unhappy but what can you do, if he did his best, even though
your new guy said he made mistakes then so what, he just was not a #1
quality guy. The job must have been going ok as that is not the issue.
If I were the guy Id be ****ed I dont have my job when I got out or my
cash. Think about it from his point of view, there are 2 sides a judge
will hear. I would argue if I was him what you say was wrong was the
other guy making more work for himself, and overcharging you.

"I know someone in a similar situation, but it was not jail, just a
contractor that bailed on him. He was able to recoup some of the cost
incurred, but the legal fees ended up costing 3X what he collected."

That's why the only place to take this is small claims court, where you
don't need a lawyer. Even then, it's questionable if it's worth it.

"Some of the advice you are getting here isn't worth the paper it's
written
on. "

Including yours. Not having a contractor's license may be a felony in
your state, but it sure isn't in most states. And unless this guy has
screwed a lot of people, the chances of anyone prosecuting him or even
going after him for what went on here in most places is real slim.

"You have no case against him, getting arrested is an act of god, like
breaking a leg,. "

That's a new legal concept. So, a guy who beats up his wife and ends
up in jail wasn't responsible because it was an act of god and couldn't
be avoided?

"if he had a 3 week sentance then it was the same as firing
him if he was in the hospital, and no contract allows that crap, we all

gert sick."

LOL Now it gets even better. How the hell could anyone get a 3 week
jail sentence in the middle of a simple remodeling job, without knowing
that it was coming? Nothing happens that quickly or with no notice in
the legal system. Now it's possible he got arrested and couldn't make
bail. But from where I sit, that's very likely the contractor's fault
too. If he got drunk and wound up in a bar fight, beat up the wife,
whatever, it is his irresponsible actions that led to the arrest. And
if he knew he had a court date coming for sentencing and didn't
disclose that to the homeowner, then certainly the contractor's at
fault. That is way different than breaking a leg.

m Ransley wrote:
You have no case against him, getting arrested is an act of god, like
breaking a leg,. You broke the contract by hiring someone else, probably
you did not give proper legal notice. If I were him I could bring suit
against you if I was operating legaly, or at least I could countersuit
you. In my area it is not illegal to not have a lisence,, but all areas
are different. You esentialy fired him not because yu were unhappy with
the work but for time, which is understandable if he did not have a firm
sentenance, if he had a 3 week sentance then it was the same as firing
him if he was in the hospital, and no contract allows that crap, we all
gert sick. So you paid more, So the other guy had higher rates. You
should be unhappy but what can you do, if he did his best, even though
your new guy said he made mistakes then so what, he just was not a #1
quality guy. The job must have been going ok as that is not the issue.
If I were the guy Id be ****ed I dont have my job when I got out or my
cash. Think about it from his point of view, there are 2 sides a judge
will hear. I would argue if I was him what you say was wrong was the
other guy making more work for himself, and overcharging you.


Now I've heard it all. What a load of horse ****.

m Ransley wrote:
You have no case against him, getting arrested is an act of god, like
breaking a leg,.

FURTHER DRIVEL SNIPPED FOR HYGEINIC REASONS ........

Who is this clown? I keep blocking him, and he keeps reappearing. Does he
change his identity daily?

STeve

wrote in message
oups.com...
"Some of the advice you are getting here isn't worth the paper it's
written
on. "

Including yours. Not having a contractor's license may be a felony in
your state, but it sure isn't in most states. And unless this guy has
screwed a lot of people, the chances of anyone prosecuting him or even
going after him for what went on here in most places is real slim.


I hate words like always ........ never ........... probably ...........
should ............

This is why he needs to talk to the people WHERE HE LIVES.

Offering advice to people in other states makes as much sense as me living
in Las Vegas watching the weather report in Wichita.

Steve (an ex steel erection contractor in the State of Nevada)

SteveB wrote:
m Ransley wrote:

You have no case against him, getting arrested is an act of god, like
breaking a leg,.


FURTHER DRIVEL SNIPPED FOR HYGEINIC REASONS ........

Who is this clown? I keep blocking him, and he keeps reappearing. Does he
change his identity daily?

STeve



webtv is fulfilling it's destiny to be the scourge of usenet.

The point is the contractor did not walk off the job, he did not plan on
getting arrested and had no intention of leaving, just as if he got sick
or injured. If he just walked it would be a completely different story.
Since 3 weeks elapsed time was not great. A 3 week sentence would be
from something minor. Learn the law guys, read exclusion contracts. If
he was in the hospital for 3 weeks do you think OP would have found
someone else, no, and the contractor did not get himself arrested to
bail on the job, nobody plans accidents that is where your contract
protects both parties. OP knew he was arrested I will bet, and the
sentence, since he got someone else in in short order.

"Since 3 weeks elapsed time was not great. A 3 week sentence would be
from something minor. Learn the law guys, read exclusion contracts. "

Yeah, we need to learn the law . LOL Where in the legal system can
you have a 3 week sentence appear out of the blue, with no prior
knowledge? At the very least, the contractor would have to have
known he was going to court for sentencing. Did he bother to disclose
that to the homeowner and that he might not be able to peform the
contract? And even then, it's very rare for a judge to order the guy
straight to jail for a minor 3 week sentence. They generally will give
the defendant time to take care of affairs with a minor sentence like
that. About the only way you could have a 3 week sentence suddenly
appear without warning is for the jerk to go into court for a traffic
offense and call the judge a f**g SOB. Then he might get hauled off
right away for contempt of court.

"If he was in the hospital for 3 weeks do you think OP would have
found
someone else, no"

It's quite possible that if he knew the contractor was going to be in
the hospital for 3 weeks he would have done the same thing. And they
are two very different things. Winding up in the hospital usually is
not one's own fault, though it could be in some cases. Winding up in
jail almost always is the person't own fault. There is far less reason
to give someone consideration when it's their own fault. Whether 3
weeks is long enought to wait before getting someone else to finish the
job is something only a judge could decide. But I can guarantee you
that how the 3 weeks came to pass will definitely be part of the facts
the judge considers. And I doubt a judge will consider winding up in
jail an act of God.

my father was a general contractor building & remodeling homes, he hired
hundreds of contractors all his life, he never got burned, here is how he
did it:

he would always pay "well behind" the work, i.e. when they were 2/3 done, he
would pay them for the first 1/3 etc.

the way he paid at a rate well behind the work (because subcontractors are
notoriously unreliable) was such that if any contractor happened to bail on
him, he would actually come out way ahead, because he would have far more
work at any given time than had been paid for

only after the job was complete and everything they did worked correctly &
reliably, would he pay the balance due on the job

even though he paid like this, contractors actually liked working for him,
his reputation was good because the sub-contactors knew if they did a good
job and completed the job, they would definitely get paid, and they liked
that, as sometimes the builder is not reliable either, and sub-contractors
sometimes get burned

something to think about


cowboy

"HomeBrewer" wrote in message
news:yoQwe.38019$R21.34286@lakeread06...
I have learned a valuable lesson - about checking license
numbers...bonded, insured etc..but it's too late for this deal. Either
way, I really want to burn this guy, before he burns someone else, but now
I don't have a lot of money to pay court fees. I have been told that here
in FL - even if I win in court, there is no guarantee that I'll ever see a
dime of my money back.

What are my options?


eodx2_at_cox.net


First off, you can not collect money from somebody that does not have any.
This dead beat probably is broke, or dealing in cash, so good luck trying to
get any money back. Even if you go to court and get a judgement against him,
it does not mean you will see any money.

Second, did he claim to be licensed? Insured? If so he may have broken laws
in your state, perhaps the state will burn him. You would not see any $$,
but you may get the satisfaction that he is off the streets!
Greg

"Dan C" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:06:57 -0500, HomeBrewer wrote:

I have learned a valuable lesson - about checking license
numbers...bonded, insured etc..but it's too late for this deal.

What are my options?

Unless you want to flush some more money down the drain, you have no
options. Take the lesson you mentioned above, and move along.

And probably - change the locks.

Bob

I have spent 2 weeks fixing his work and it's still not complete. I have
since found out that he is not even licensed and probably doesn't have
insurance. I have learned a valuable lesson - about checking license
numbers...bonded, insured etc..but it's too late for this deal.

That should have been STEP 1

Now
In the middle of a $15,000 kitchen remodel my "self-proclaimed" contractor
was put in jail. It was 3 weeks ago and he failed to finish the job. I
had a contract with him in which I paid $3500 a week until the job was
finished. The bad part is I had already paid him $12,500 when he went to
jail. I have since hired a new "professional" contractor to bail me out
(for $3000) and along with my 80+ hours of labor and $1000 in materials.
Lot's of the work had to be redone.

Looks like you spent 16.5K on a 15K job. Actually, thats not bad, only
running 10% over these days.

The dead beat is out of jail now and He will not talk to me. He said that
he had 2 days on left on this job before he left, and that he doesn't owe
me anything. Either way, I really want to burn this guy, before he burns
someone else

Write it off to experience before you really p*ss him off and the deadbeat
sends some of his jailbird buddies over in the middle of the night after
their bar closes to do a job on your house or car.

You wont get any $$ out of a scumbag like that. They usually drive a $
250.00 truck and anything else they MAY have thats worth $$ is usually in
someone elses name.

"cowboy" wrote in message
...
he would always pay "well behind" the work, i.e. when they were 2/3 done,
he
would pay them for the first 1/3 etc.
[snip]
something to think about

A reputable GC can probably get away with that. Those of us who are merely
homeowners often have trouble getting a contractor to call back or show up,
and when they do, it's on their terms. Unless you're doing a huge remodel
or some other very expensive project, I don't think most of us can tell
contractors how they're getting paid (at least ones that you'd want to
hire...)

-Tim