Hello,

Let me preface this by saying I have zero experience with plumbing but
I want to DIY this project because I am trying to gain that experience.
Sorry if some of my questions are dumb.

My friend (who worked with his dad many years in their plumbing
business) and I are going to redo the plumbing in my house. The old
pipes are filled with crud and need to go. I read in this group quite
a bit about PEX and I am sold on it for my house. After some
convincing my friend has come around (he was insisting on copper,
because that is what he knows) and is going to help me.

I want to go with the Wirsbo system (ProPEX brass fittings), using
their hand tool and the expansion fittings. The only place I have
found that will sell to me (so far) is this website:

http://www.pexsupply.com/

First question:
I would love a local place to buy it (Seattle) but so far I have had no
luck. Lowes sells only the compression type fittings (and all plastic
too!). Can anyone else recommend a place to buy the Wirsbo stuff? Or
has anyone else bought from pexsupply.com?

Second question:
While I have a general idea of the procedure for installing the PEX, I
was wondering if there was a guide of some sort/manual. I know there
is a ring that sits on the outside of the tube for the expansion
fitting but I don't understand its purpose. Slip on the ring, use the
expander, slip over fitting, is that it? I can't find the stuff
locally so I have only read about it and seen pictures on the net.

Third question:
When people do a remodel with PEX, are they fishing the tubes through
the walls and just letting it sit there unsupported? I see several
types of fasteners that will fix it to the studs/joists but I am
wondering what the "best practice" is for a remodel.

Last question:
My plan is to do home-run system where every appliance comes back to
the manifold. The Wirsbo Aquacenter manifold with the on/off valves:
http://www.wirsbo.com/main.php?pm=1&...ex.php&sroom=1
Seems to only have 1/2 inch ID outputs. Is that the normal size for a
home-run style system?

Thanks for any help! I love reading this group.

Justin

I want to go with the Wirsbo system (ProPEX brass fittings), using
their hand tool and the expansion fittings. The only place I have
found that will sell to me (so far) is this website:

I 've bought it straight from Home Depot. They'll even rent you the
crimping tool.

R

The Home Depots in Orange County CA do not carry PEX.

Wirsbo AquaPex can be purchased on eBay.

or

http://www.pexsupply.com/index.cfm/a...7-19dc285646f4

I bought a hand expander tool but I haven't used it yet. I like the
expander concept better than the crimper.

As near as I can tell the extra plastic ring is to help reinforce the
tube at the fitting locations & increase clamping force generted by the
"shape memory" of the PEX.

The question I have is:

The fitings used with the crimper must be different form the fitting
used with the expander?

Bob

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
The Home Depots in Orange County CA do not carry PEX.

Wirsbo AquaPex can be purchased on eBay.

or


http://www.pexsupply.com/index.cfm/a...ory_header/1/i
d_category/31ae2cf6-06cb-4b48-a1b7-19dc285646f4

I bought a hand expander tool but I haven't used it yet. I like the
expander concept better than the crimper.

As near as I can tell the extra plastic ring is to help reinforce the
tube at the fitting locations & increase clamping force generted by the
"shape memory" of the PEX.

The question I have is:

The fitings used with the crimper must be different form the fitting
used with the expander?


Yep. Different principle.

AND it's not quite what you think when you use the expander tool. Depending
on how many joints you make up, your arms are going to be tired using that
hand expander.

"Rudy" wrote in message
news:j0xge.1319209$8l.166227@pd7tw1no...

I want to go with the Wirsbo system (ProPEX brass fittings), using
their hand tool and the expansion fittings. The only place I have
found that will sell to me (so far) is this website:

I 've bought it straight from Home Depot. They'll even rent you the
crimping tool.


Wirsbo uses expansion along with PEX's cross-link memory to seal their
connections. That's a world away from crimping. If you crimp Wirsbo PEX,
the warranty is void....

My plumber adds a $50 surcharge if he has to touch a pex connection.

I would avoid it like the plague.



On 11 May 2005 10:51:53 -0700, "JDS"
wrote:

Hello,

Let me preface this by saying I have zero experience with plumbing but
I want to DIY this project because I am trying to gain that experience.
Sorry if some of my questions are dumb.

My friend (who worked with his dad many years in their plumbing
business) and I are going to redo the plumbing in my house. The old
pipes are filled with crud and need to go. I read in this group quite
a bit about PEX and I am sold on it for my house. After some
convincing my friend has come around (he was insisting on copper,
because that is what he knows) and is going to help me.

I want to go with the Wirsbo system (ProPEX brass fittings), using
their hand tool and the expansion fittings. The only place I have
found that will sell to me (so far) is this website:

http://www.pexsupply.com/

First question:
I would love a local place to buy it (Seattle) but so far I have had no
luck. Lowes sells only the compression type fittings (and all plastic
too!). Can anyone else recommend a place to buy the Wirsbo stuff? Or
has anyone else bought from pexsupply.com?

Second question:
While I have a general idea of the procedure for installing the PEX, I
was wondering if there was a guide of some sort/manual. I know there
is a ring that sits on the outside of the tube for the expansion
fitting but I don't understand its purpose. Slip on the ring, use the
expander, slip over fitting, is that it? I can't find the stuff
locally so I have only read about it and seen pictures on the net.

Third question:
When people do a remodel with PEX, are they fishing the tubes through
the walls and just letting it sit there unsupported? I see several
types of fasteners that will fix it to the studs/joists but I am
wondering what the "best practice" is for a remodel.

Last question:
My plan is to do home-run system where every appliance comes back to
the manifold. The Wirsbo Aquacenter manifold with the on/off valves:
http://www.wirsbo.com/main.php?pm=1&...ex.php&sroom=1
Seems to only have 1/2 inch ID outputs. Is that the normal size for a
home-run style system?

Thanks for any help! I love reading this group.

Justin

"JimL" wrote in message
...

My plumber adds a $50 surcharge if he has to touch a pex connection.

I would avoid it like the plague.


Why is that? Thousands of houses are now piped with it. Maybe the plumber
needs a little education? Or he does not want to invest in the tools?

From what I have read, the big difference is that the expansion
fittings are the same ID as the pipe.

I figured if I was just going to do my own house (2 bathrooms, 1
kitchen, washer, dishwasher) that the hand tool is the only one that
makes sense... I have been hitting the gym in preparation!

I am not a plumber (obviously) but it seems to me like PEX is going to
be the next "copper". The only argument I have read against it goes
something like:

"Copper is metal and metal is stronger. I wouldn't trust plastic."

I am totally ready and willing to be convinced that there is a huge
downside to PEX, but I haven't been able to find it.

Bob,

Thanks for the info. I think I will buy the tool from ebay and the
pipes and fittings from pexsupply. I want to color code the hot and
cold water lines (red and blue).

Have you actually ordered from pexsupply? Which manifold are you going
to use?

"Rudy" wrote in message
news:j0xge.1319209$8l.166227@pd7tw1no...

I want to go with the Wirsbo system (ProPEX brass fittings), using
their hand tool and the expansion fittings. The only place I have
found that will sell to me (so far) is this website:

I 've bought it straight from Home Depot. They'll even rent you the
crimping tool.

I looked at PEX at my H.D. and all they seemed to have was the compression
fittings "not intended for in wall installation".

O.P. - If you find a supplier in seattle, let me know where. I would check
the plumbing supply houses first, myself.

Bob

On Thu, 12 May 2005 08:36:09 -0400, "HeatMan"
wrote:


"BobK207" wrote in message
roups.com...
The Home Depots in Orange County CA do not carry PEX.

Wirsbo AquaPex can be purchased on eBay.

or


http://www.pexsupply.com/index.cfm/a...ory_header/1/i
d_category/31ae2cf6-06cb-4b48-a1b7-19dc285646f4

I bought a hand expander tool but I haven't used it yet. I like the
expander concept better than the crimper.

As near as I can tell the extra plastic ring is to help reinforce the
tube at the fitting locations & increase clamping force generted by the
"shape memory" of the PEX.

The question I have is:

The fitings used with the crimper must be different form the fitting
used with the expander?


Yep. Different principle.

AND it's not quite what you think when you use the expander tool. Depending
on how many joints you make up, your arms are going to be tired using that
hand expander.


I saw on tv a cordless drill that had some attachment that did the
expansion.

Nice.

later,

tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com

On Thu, 12 May 2005 13:27:27 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"JimL" wrote in message
.. .

My plumber adds a $50 surcharge if he has to touch a pex connection.

I would avoid it like the plague.


Why is that? Thousands of houses are now piped with it. Maybe the plumber
needs a little education? Or he does not want to invest in the tools?



I'm guessing the same reason the phone company says they don't support
touchtone service, and surcharge you for using it.

Cause they can, and it makes them more money.



later,

tom @ www.CarFleaMarket.com

I glad to see this thread generated some interest.

To be honest I'm still a little confused.

I think Wirsbo AquaPex was the fresh water stuff.

Re-checking http://www.pexsupply.com

I cannot tell which fitings get used with the crimp system & which get
used w/ the expander system.

I've only seen the stuff on the web never in person.


I looked at the air & the battery powered expander; a little pricey.

I too was concerned about my arms getting tired but I only have about
25 expansions per house. What really sucks it that the expander heads
for the air, battery & hand expander are all DIFFERENT!

I have a contractor friend who moved from CA to TX a few years ago & he
was just switching to PEX. He loved it.

I'm pretty old school been using copper all my life for new work &
have done a fair amount of galv steel repair. A year ago I replaced
the street to house galv line with 1" CTS type K just because. that's
what I use. If I thought about PEX, had the tools & experience I might
have used it but old methods die hard.

I think PEX IS the next copper; anyone with bad PEX experience?

I know the stuff is very sunlight sensitive.

Cheers
Bob K

JDS-

Am I the Bob you replied to?

If so, no I have not bought from pexsupply.

I have not worked out which manifolds to use.

I was leaning towards the manifolds from .pexsupply.com but you have to
sweat fitting onto them to integrate them into your system

An alternative is www.pexconnection.com but all their stuff appears
to be for the crimp system They have PEX & PEX out manifolds which are
good for hot water loops. The the manifolds that require sweat
fittings can be configured as needed.

If you cannot find the tools to rent locally & don't want to buy on
Ebay ( ~$250 for hand expander) . I'd be willing to "rent" you mine
for a not much, you could keep for a while. I doubt I'll be getting
to my repipe very soon esp since my wife put the house on the market.
It might be sold before I repipe but I have some more projects on the
list.

btw i'm in SoCal

cheers
Bob K

My plumber adds a $50 surcharge if he has to touch a pex connection.
I would avoid it like the plague.

This and our last house are done with 100% PEX , first one was "Wirsbo", and
we think its great stuff.
Its simple and easy to work with.
I'd avoid your plumber like the plague.

R

I cannot tell which fitings get used with the crimp system & which get
used w/ the expander system.

WIRSBO pex uses the expander. Other types of pex use the crimp system

R

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
I glad to see this thread generated some interest.


Some Snipped

I know the stuff is very sunlight sensitive.


At least a couple of manufacturers make a UV resistant PEX.

On 11 May 2005 10:51:53 -0700, "JDS"
wrote:

Hello,

SNIP

Justin

Sorry to highjack your thread, but your questions reminded me of mine
and it might effect you.

With using pex tubing, what issues do you run into with electrical
grounding and bonding. I've been heaing the issue that metal faucets
about water and electricity must be 'grounded' since pex is not
conductive, and water is a poor conductor, has local authorities
forced some bonding wires to be installed to faucets and panels?

Guessing this will add to the complexity of using pex over traditional
copper piping.

Thx,

tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com

"Bob" wrote in message
...

"Rudy" wrote in message
news:j0xge.1319209$8l.166227@pd7tw1no...

I want to go with the Wirsbo system (ProPEX brass fittings), using
their hand tool and the expansion fittings. The only place I have
found that will sell to me (so far) is this website:

I 've bought it straight from Home Depot. They'll even rent you the
crimping tool.

I looked at PEX at my H.D. and all they seemed to have was the compression
fittings "not intended for in wall installation".

I talked to someone at H.D. He said the PEX they carry is all the "old
style" stuff for people repairing installations. This store does not carry
any in-wall connection stuff.

Bob

I talked to someone at H.D. He said the PEX they carry is all the "old
style" stuff for people repairing installations. This store does not carry
any in-wall connection stuff.

I guess it varies with area. Here they sell the pieces or the whole 250'
rolls, all the fittings and rent the tools.

Here is in Canada, btw.

Sorry to highjack your thread, but your questions reminded me of mine
and it might effect you.

No problem, I am interested in this as well.

With using pex tubing, what issues do you run into with electrical
grounding and bonding. I've been heaing the issue that metal faucets
about water and electricity must be 'grounded' since pex is not
conductive, and water is a poor conductor, has local authorities
forced some bonding wires to be installed to faucets and panels?

Guessing this will add to the complexity of using pex over traditional
copper piping.

From another thread I read, they were saying that your electricity is
not supposed to actually be grounded to the pipes, rather it is the
other way around, the pipes are meant to be grounded to your panel
which is in turn supposed to be grounded to the earth. The reason
given was that you don't want your plumbing (being all metal) becoming
involved in a short somewhere and shocking somebody when they go to
take a shower or whatever. Supposedly, since PEX is plastic and does
not need to be grounded. The rest of your house electricity should be
grounded at a grounding rod.

I am not an electrician either, but that explanation makes sense to me.
My electric panel has a connection to the pipes as well as the
grounding rod so if I have all plastic piping, I should still be
grounded appropriately.

Maybe someone who knows better can confirm or deny this.

-Justin

JDS-

Am I the Bob you replied to?

Yep! Still trying to work out how to use Google groups to do this
correctly. I don't have a standalone news reader.

If so, no I have not bought from pexsupply.

Well when I take the plunge, I will let you know my experience with
them then if you would like.

I have not worked out which manifolds to use.

I was leaning towards the manifolds from .pexsupply.com but you have
to
sweat fitting onto them to integrate them into your system

An alternative is www.pexconnection.com but all their stuff appears
to be for the crimp system They have PEX & PEX out manifolds which
are
good for hot water loops. The the manifolds that require sweat
fittings can be configured as needed.

I am leaning towards the manfiolds at the top of this page (the valved
manfiold kits):

http://www.pexsupply.com/index.cfm/a...9-5c4e7872c06f

When you say the needed to be sweated on to integrate into the system,
are you thinking of a part pex/part copper system? I am thinking in
terms of a complete overhaul, PEX all the way from the street. I
assume in that case I would not need to sweat anything except maybe
that first street-pex connection.

If you cannot find the tools to rent locally & don't want to buy on
Ebay ( ~$250 for hand expander) . I'd be willing to "rent" you mine
for a not much, you could keep for a while. I doubt I'll be getting
to my repipe very soon esp since my wife put the house on the market.
It might be sold before I repipe but I have some more projects on
the
list.

I appreciate the offer! Might be more of pain than it is worth for
you, I am in Seattle, WA. I was going to buy it on ebay and keep it
though, otherwise how would one fix any future problems that cropped
up?

btw i'm in SoCal

cheers
Bob K

-Justin